I need a 3.5ED, WotC evil goddess.

[thorr-kan]

I need a 3.5ED, WotC evil goddess. I would prefer one from core or Greyhawk, though I'll entertain suggestions from Eberron or Forgotten Realms.

I have in my head a quartet of four humans show have successfully ascended to divinity:
Wee Jas
St. Cuthbert
Vecna
?

I'd prefer:
NE or CE; LE need not apply
martial focus a plus
vanity optional
can be refluffed as an ascended human

Sulerain from CompWar is a possibility, but she lacks any further support.

Auril from Frostburn also has some potential. I know she's originally an FR goddess, but Frostburn brings her into core, and it expands here support.

(ETA: ascended human, not mortal.)

[ColorBlindNinja]

Lolth is chaotic evil and is the goddess of the Drow.

[thorr-kan]

Lolth is chaotic evil and is the goddess of the Drow.
Good idea, but I meant an ascended human, not mortal. But I didn't actually say that, so I've edited the original post.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Good idea, but I meant an ascended human, not mortal. But I didn't actually say that, so I've edited the original post.

That's a lot harder; do you mind using goddesses from actual mythologies?

[Afgncaap5]

I don't think Wee Jas is an ascended mortal. Isn't she the daughter of Lendor, the god of time, patience, and studiousness?

With that in mind, how about other deities who could plausibly have ascended from humans? Say, Beltar, the goddess of malice and pits, who appears as a decrepit hag and is revered by raiders and explorers in dark places. Or possibly Syrul, the goddess of lies, deceit, and false promises.

Or you could scan down this list (http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/we/greyhawkdeities.html), see if one takes your liking.

-Edit-

I missed in your OP that being refluffed as an ascended mortal was OK, hence my confusion on Wee Jas. Sorry!

[thorr-kan]

That's a lot harder; do you mind using goddesses from actual mythologies?
If it's got 3.5 stats, I'd take a look.

[ColorBlindNinja]

If it's got 3.5 stats, I'd take a look.

Hel, the Norse goddess of death and the underworld is a neutral evil intermediate deity; her stat block can be found on Pg. 180 of Deities and Demigods.
Her stat block is unfortunately 3.0, and will need to be updated via the update document for Deities and Demigods or the info in the SRD.

[thorr-kan]

Say, Beltar, the goddess of malice and pits, who appears as a decrepit hag and is revered by raiders and explorers in dark places. Or possibly Syrul, the goddess of lies, deceit, and false promises.

-Edit-

I missed in your OP that being refluffed as an ascended mortal was OK, hence my confusion on Wee Jas. Sorry!
No worries, really.

Beltar has possibilities. Was she expanded on anywhere besides CompDiv?

Was there a source for Syrul beyond the LGG?

[ShurikVch]

How about the Baba Yaga (https://wiki.greyparticle.com/index.php/Baba_Yaga)?

[Afgncaap5]

No worries, really.

Beltar has possibilities. Was she expanded on anywhere besides CompDiv?

Was there a source for Syrul beyond the LGG?

No. However, since Vanity was a non-required thing you were looking for, I thought she seemed like a curious choice since she appears as a withered hag (what is it with evil goddesses looking like hags?) but in reality she looks nothing like that since she's basically created a permanent illusion on herself. She looks more or less ordinary, and that strikes me as a kind of vanity, even if that's not her domain.

[Gruftzwerg]

Would Malar fit into your story? God of hunt, beasts, wild & raw combat.

You could easily fluff him into a human lycanthrope who has ascended to divinity (dunno his real story, sry^^).

[thorr-kan]

How about the Baba Yaga (https://wiki.greyparticle.com/index.php/Baba_Yaga)?
Not a deity.

[thorr-kan]

Would Malar fit into your story? God of hunt, beasts, wild & raw combat.

You could easily fluff him into a human lycanthrope who has ascended to divinity (dunno his real story, sry^^).

Nope, not a goddess.

[thorr-kan]

No. However, since Vanity was a non-required thing you were looking for, I thought she seemed like a curious choice since she appears as a withered hag (what is it with evil goddesses looking like hags?) but in reality she looks nothing like that since she's basically created a permanent illusion on herself. She looks more or less ordinary, and that strikes me as a kind of vanity, even if that's not her domain.
Actually, the LGG and LG_Deities_v2-0 documents expand on both a little bit. I'll have to take a look at that.

[thorr-kan]

Hel, the Norse goddess of death and the underworld is a neutral evil intermediate deity; her stat block can be found on Pg. 180 of Deities and Demigods.
Her stat block is unfortunately 3.0, and will need to be updated via the update document for Deities and Demigods or the info in the SRD.
I'll look at Hel again.

None of the Deities and Demigods deities really fit.

[Eldan]

There's also Umberlee, i you don't go for Auril. In the same group of gods, written up in Stormwrack. The goddess of storms. No idea about her origins, though.

[DarkSoul]

Beshaba, goddess of bad luck. FR, but you're looking for something pretty specific. I don't think she's an ascended mortal, but that's easy to change.

Other choices from there would be Loviatar (there's a Finnish goddess of the same name that might work), Talona, Umberlee, maybe Shar or Leira.

[Gildedragon]

Wouldn't it make sense to have every alignment component represented? You're doubling up on LN...

You could Genderflip Kyuss... though it gives ya two Lichy gods

Umberlee might fit

[ShurikVch]

Not a deity.Are you even checked the link?

Power Level Quasi-deityQuasi-deity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#rank0):
Rank 0
Creatures of this rank are sometimes called quasi-deities or hero deities. Creatures that have a mortal and a deity as parents also fall into this category. These entities cannot grant spells, but are immortal and usually have one or more ability scores that are far above the norm for their species. They may have some worshipers. Ordinary mortals do not have a divine rank of 0. They lack a divine rank altogether.

[Psyren]

Hecate is NE and has stats. She's pretty exclusively a caster rather than a martial though.

The only martial evil goddess with stats I can think of is Loviatar, but she's LE, which you don't want.

Shar likes to stab things I guess?

[Buufreak]

A bit of a stretch for you, but 4e has the raven queen, bride and human usurper of nerull, goddess of death, winter, and fate. She is TN there, but an evil argument could be made, based mostly on 4's standard of "PCs can't the evils!"

[denthor]

Do not know if you like this one NE lives on the negative plane Toldoth

3.5 page 210

death, destruction evil strength trickery and war are the domains

This is more of a monster than human but can work

[ksbsnowowl]

How about the Baba Yaga (https://wiki.greyparticle.com/index.php/Baba_Yaga)?


Not a deity.


Are you even checked the link?
Quasi-deity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#rank0):

Just in case Baba Yaga does become palatable to the OP, folks over at EnWorld wrote up 3.5 stats for her back in 2008 (http://www.enworld.org/cctest/newcc/Conversions/Baba%20Yaga.htm). They left off the quasi-deity stuff, but that would be easy to hand-waive and add via D&Dg.

[Uckleverry]

The benefit of using a FR deity is that they all received pretty extensive write ups in the AD&D deity books (Faiths & Avatars, Powers & Pantheons, Demihuman Deities).

Cyric is male, but an ascended human and CE.

The Red Knight is female and an ascended human, but she's LN.

Siamorphe is another ascended human woman, but also LN. She's a minor deity of nobility and their inherent right to rule.

Velsharoon is an ascended lich human, male and NE, and rather similar to Vecna.

[TheBrassDuke]

beshaba, goddess of bad luck. Fr, but you're looking for something pretty specific. I don't think she's an ascended mortal, but that's easy to change.

Other choices from there would be loviatar (there's a finnish goddess of the same name that might work), talona, umberlee, maybe shar or leira.

shar! Shar! Shar!

[Zaq]

A bit of a stretch for you, but 4e has the raven queen, bride and human usurper of nerull, goddess of death, winter, and fate. She is TN there, but an evil argument could be made, based mostly on 4's standard of "PCs can't the evils!"

Except that he's already using Wee Jas, and the Raven Queen is pretty obviously The Goddess Formerly Known As Wee Jas. That's how I've always read her, anyway.

Anyway, there are lots of minor deities in the Races Of books. Maybe see if any of them are to your liking? I don't remember any of the human-centric ones other than Zarus, who isn't a goddess, but it still might be a start. Maybe one of the illumian ones? All illumian deities are ascended mortals, and illumians are human enough that they have the [Human] subtype.

[thorr-kan]

To revisit this...Umberlee has potential. And as of Stormwrack, is not FR. Must ponder.

So does Loviatar. Huh. FR though. Still worth considering.

I did look over Shar. Too much FR baggage for my tastes, and she overlaps Vecna too much. Good suggestion, though.

[Elkad]

NE or CE from 1e, quick skim.

Tou Mu - Chinese - CE - 20' tall 16-armed goddess with ALL the weapons. Including fun toys like a still-alive Red Dragon head that can breathe fire, and a flower that full Heals her every round.
Loviatar - already mentioned above, LE
Kali - Indian - CE - 4-armed, destruction, eats her own children, etc
Xiombarg - Melnibonean - CE - pretty girl with a big axe.

[ShurikVch]

How about Shaktari, Queen of Mariliths (Dragon #359)?
Technically, she's an archfiend, but Book of Vile Darkness says:
If you have the Deities and Demigods book, you can give each demon lord and archdevil divine rank 1 and adjust their statistics accordingly. This divine rank will give them maximum hit points for each Hit Die; more spell-like abilities; some extra immunities and sensory abilities; a +1 bonus to Armor Class, attacks, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks; and a scattering of other divine abilities. In practical terms, the demon lords and archdevils are powerful enough already that giving them a divine rank doesn’t make a huge difference.Note: most of Tanar'ri were mortals at some point, so "ascended human" isn't that far-fetched

[Segev]

There's always the Queen of Chaos; she who lost the war against the Wind Dukes, and was the ruler of the Oberyths and mother of the Tanna'ri.

Though my first instinct was Evening Glory, the goddess of eternal beauty through undeath. She's in Libris Mortis.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Elkad
Tou Mu - Chinese - CE - 20' tall 16-armed goddess with ALL the weapons. Including fun toys like a still-alive Red Dragon head that can breathe fire….

Xiombarg - Melnibonean - CE - pretty girl with a big axe.

What books are these from? And were they ever updated to 3.5?

[Elkad]

What books are these from? And were they ever updated to 3.5?

First edition AD&D - Deities and Demigods.

And no. They pretty much eliminated all the actual Earth mythos Deities from the later editions.

[gkathellar]

Note: most of Tanar'ri were mortals at some point, so "ascended human" isn't that far-fetched

Some, but definitely not most, at least in the upper echelons. By far the most notable petitioner success story would be Orcus. Most other demon lords are Abyssal originals.


There's always the Queen of Chaos; she who lost the war against the Wind Dukes, and was the ruler of the Oberyths and mother of the Tanna'ri.

QoC was never mortal, and was not the mother of the tanar'ri. She standardized their forms for war and cultivated them as the dominant Abyssal exemplars.

[ShurikVch]

Some, but definitely not most, at least in the upper echelons. By far the most notable petitioner success story would be Orcus. Most other demon lords are Abyssal originals.Definitely most.

It's how it works - from the lowly Mane to awesome Demon Lord.

The only two other possible ways for Tanar'ri to appear are:
Artificial creation. The most notable example - Demogorgon.
Spontaneous generation. The most notable example - Malcanthet and her "sisters".
So, unless you have some info about primacy of one of those, way of "from a petitioner and higher" is the safest bet

Come on! Abyss have infinite amount of demons.
Are you seriously saying nobody from this infinity achieved greatness by starting from the very bottom?
It's statistically impossible! :smalltongue:

[gkathellar]

Definitely most.

It's how it works - from the lowly Mane to awesome Demon Lord.

The only two other possible ways for Tanar'ri to appear are:
Artificial creation. The most notable example - Demogorgon.
Spontaneous generation. The most notable example - Malcanthet and her "sisters".
So, unless you have some info about primacy of one of those, way of "from a petitioner and higher" is the safest bet

Come on! Abyss have infinite amount of demons.
Are you seriously saying nobody from this infinity achieved greatness by starting from the very bottom?
It's statistically impossible! :smalltongue:

It's mostly spontaneous generation or spawning (Graz'zt is Pale Night's kid, for instance).

And no, I specifically noted that Orcus is the archetypal nouveau riche demon lord who worked his way up from the bottom. Orcus, demon lord of undeath and scrappiness, who very briefly achieved godhood, who refuses to die no matter what. Orcus, who exists as a living middle finger to Old Money demon lords like Graz'zt. Orcus, who is the Abyssal Dream incarnate.

But most of his peers are leftover Obyriths, the children of other powerful demons, or spontaneously generated. Walking Orcus' path is hard.

[hamishspence]

I thought Demogorgon was a mix of spontaneously generated and "nurtured by obyrith experimentation" - the same as classic Seven Deadly Sins demons (succubi-lust, akilith-sloth, glabrezu-envy, etc) too -

but created from "mortal fears" rather than sins - with the Queen of Chaos rejecting him as a demonic soldier because he was uncontrollable - and focusing on Sins demons as her servants instead.

[KrimsonNekros]

If you want someone who you can fudge around with, there's always The Lady of Pain.

[gkathellar]

Back on topic, Mystra and Kelemvor are two more for the mortals-turned-gods pile.

If you're elevating characters who haven't actually achieved it, Iggwilv is a far more natural contender than any of the various archfiends.


If you want someone who you can fudge around with, there's always The Lady of Pain.

Her Serenity is not even a character, much less any sort of deity. Gods want worship - generally her view is the opposite, and this is enforced by Your Flesh Asplode.

[thorr-kan]

I think I am going to end up going with Auril after all.

I would like to thank everyone for your conversation. It was useful in making my decisions.

[illyahr]

If you ever need a backup, Malcanthet, Demon Lady and Queen of Succubi might be a decent selection. Extremely powerful, extremely vain, not much of a physical fighter but powerful debuffs to even the playing field. Found in Hordes of the Abyss