So are there any "simple" guides?

[NecroDancer]

When I look for guides on different classes I usually find ones that cover hundreds of options, however I only have a few books and I hate having to wallow through 100+ splat-books to make a character. I was wondering if there are any guides that give simplified instructions or just cover core. Thanks :)

[Cosi]

Mostly not. I think there are quick start (or something) guides for a couple classes, but mostly it goes pretty deep, I assume because the only people who care enough to write guides are people who are enfranchised enough to know that if you combine a feat from Dragon, a magic item from a 3.0 Forgotten Realms book, and a PrC from Complete Mage it forms Voltron.

That said, if you do want advice on a core build, you can ask and get reasonably good results.

[Zaq]

Cosi's more or less got it right, but the whole point of having a guide or a handbook is to have something/someone to help you find the stuff you wouldn't necessarily have thought of on your own. Just to pluck a few examples from my Truenamer guide, you don't have to have known about Mortalbane as a way of buffing damage, because I told you about it. You don't have to have known about the Paragnostic Assembly as a way of getting your Truespeak checks up, because it's right there in the guide. And so on.

That said, if you're looking for a relatively simple-to-build character, you might look at a relatively self-contained class like the Dragonfire Adept (from Dragon Magic), the Duskblade (from Player's Handbook II), or the Crusader (from Tome of Battle). Maybe even one of the fixed-list casters like the Beguiler or the Warmage, though they've definitely got some optimization potential for someone who cares. A class that didn't get a whole ton of new options in every new book is likely to be simpler to build than one that did. (Not necessarily as robust, of course, but something's gotta be sacrificed.)

Also, just because you can do something with a character doesn't mean that it's always required to do so. As long as you're comfortable with what the character can and can't do and it fits the intended power level of the group, it's okay if you miss an option or a combo or two. It's there if you want it, but in most cases, the game will still be playable without going all out. (There are exceptions, but you get me.) This isn't like 5e where you have basically no chance to customize a character or put your own spin on it (so you're a level 6 halfling Open Hand Monk? Okay, I know everything I need to know about your character, because you're going to be exactly the same as every other level 6 halfling OH Monk in every way that matters) and you therefore have to cling to every possible point of differentiation the way the remora clings to the shark to avoid falling asleep. You'll have enough chances to optimize that you can afford not to be all you can be.

[ericgrau]

Super simple core-only guide

If you have a handful of splatbooks the simplest way to add a splatbook is to skim the general descriptions of the options it adds to see which ones apply. Then read each one and use the same principles as the below to help you make your selection. And/or Google it.

For feats as you get more options they'll generally make secondary feats and below from core obsolete, since you won't have to take something just because there's nothing else left.

Likewise less and less core everything-in-general will see use as you add on splatbooks, except as pre-reqs or a combo piece. Though not everything will go obsolete.



When I say "specialty" I mean more specific than simply melee/ranged/caster/druid/etc. Likewise "general" is about as specific as melee/ranged/caster/druid/etc, not everyone in the world.

Specialty Feats, pick only if you have a very specific purpose in mind and will use frequently. Have only 1 specialty or make sure your specialties complement each other: improved Turning (in a lower category if not undead heavy campaign; only up here because this is a frequent special case), improved trip, Augment Summoning, blind fight (plus the hard part: non-action area concealment source; also a secondary feat), combat casting, improved familiar, improved grapple, mounted combat (but you can ride without feats), ride by attack, spirited charge, trample, improved precise shot, improved sunder (hint: treasure doesn't break in 1 hit, you may make decisions between attacks; bump down if campaign low on humanoids), improved shield bash, TWF (note: best with per hit effects / abilities / special attacks), ITWF

Good General Feats, pick after your specialty (or first if no specialty): stunning fist (if you have IUAS), natural spell, point blank shot, precise shot, rapid shot, rapid reload, [greater] spell focus, weapon focus tree (yes, if it's core-only), craft magic arms and armor, craft staff, craft wondrous item, empower spell (for damage or not damage), quicken spell

Secondary Feats, do not pick first, pick when out of ideas: Dodge, save feats, whirlwind attack, combat expertise (or in another category as a pre-req), improved critical, improved initiative (yes, if it's core only), cleave (bump up if mook heavy campaign), quick draw, [greater] spell penetration, track, craft rod, forge ring, extend spell (and get the rod instead if possible), heighten spell (spontaneous caster), blind fight (also a specialty feat)

Secondary Specialty Feats, not quite worthless, but only for special circumstances and even then only after picking your main feats: Mobility, Spring Attack, improved counterspell, improved disarm, improved feint, Exotic Weapon Proficiency, extra turning, deflect arrows, snatch arrows, mounted archery, far shot, manyshot, shot on the run, power attack (yes, in core only; except as a pre-req), great cleave, improved bull rush, improved overrun, spell mastery, GTWF, weapon finesse (even/especially on a core rogue; that's a good way to commit suicide), craft wand, scribe scroll (scrolls are awesomesauce, but crafting them is meh unless you can't buy them), enlarge spell, heighten spell (prepared caster), maximize spell, silent spell, still spell, widen spell, Combat Reflexes (awesome in theory if it gets used, it needs special circumstances and a dumb DM to hit a 2nd foe per round more than once in a blue moon)

Ignore these feats except in rare circumstances extremely specific to the feat: skill feats, proficiency feats, endurance, eschew materials, improved unarmed strike (except as pre-req), run, toughness, brew potion

Special case, Leadership: Always take if allowed, not always allowed (allowed only with DM permission by RAW)



Find the best weapon category you can wield. There is usually a high damage option, a low gp option, a few crit options, reach and a few special attack options. Skip the low gp option unless it's level 1.

You should have a melee weapon, ranged weapon and a light weapon even if it isn't your specialty. Likewise skip the low gp option. Likewise pick what best fits, or high damage as the default. For ranged don't forget what does and doesn't add strength to damage as appropriate.


There are 3 good armors and the rest are for special cases and/or low gp. Skip low gp unless it's level 1-3, then see what your budget permits. The 3 good armors are chain shirt, breastplate and full plate.
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Super simple spell guide to follow if I get the time. Though casters should strongly consider a detailed spell guide at some point. Then a super simple equipment guide, to be brief and not comprehensive. Last of all is the core only super simple class guide, because it must refer to all the other guides. Though it will be inserted as the first guide once it's done. Again, only if I get the time. All will be very brief, but so is my free time.

[Luccan]

Also, if you just Ctrl+F the page, you can find the options that use books you have (usually they state the accepted abbreviation of the book next to the name of the item/feat/ACF/spells). Still time consuming, but you don't have to look through options you don't have the books for.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Now that I think about it, a core-only build guide might be a useful thing to generate...

[Eldariel]

Now that I think about it, a core-only build guide might be a useful thing to generate...

It's been done a countless times but the threads are lost in time. Google can probably uncover some.

[Kaleph]

The guides by DictumMortuum are not core-only, but are quite easy to read and are normally not combo-based, i.e. you should be able to find useful information on the class of your choise, even if some specific feature is banned by your DM.

Unfortunately his guide don't cover all classes...

[Psyren]

When I look for guides on different classes I usually find ones that cover hundreds of options, however I only have a few books and I hate having to wallow through 100+ splat-books to make a character. I was wondering if there are any guides that give simplified instructions or just cover core. Thanks :)

You didn't specify edition, but Treantmonk did a series of core-only guides for the Pathfinder classes back when the CRB was the only book out there, so those should cover you. Saph also has a core-only PF guide which I believe was even be stickied in this subforum.

As for why handbooks cover all the obscure splats, that's half the fun in writing them - highlighting something for a class that may not get much attention because it wasn't in the same book that the class debuted in. Often designers will do that, use a later publication or even a web enhancement to add something to a class that should have been there from the beginning, like that one feat that lets Warlocks and Dragonfire Adepts crib each other's invocations.

[Afgncaap5]

Theoretically, we have a core-only guide in the form of the quick-start sample characters in the Player's Handbook. It's not really optimized, but you can have a lot of fun with it at the right table. It's basically what the main characters of The Adventure Zone did, after all (though they were using 5e pregens instead of 3.5 quickstarts, and they played the game more like a hybrid between 5e and Cosmic Patrol than like D&D proper. But still.)

One little fix you can take is to jump into the really thorough guides, and parse out that which you don't have. This won't help most of the time, but some of the well written guides will give quick-glance short-hands that say PH or DMG (for 3.5) or CRB (for Pathfinder) that can tip you off before you take the time to read the entire description of why they like the feat. That's a lot to pour over for only a short amount of the info therein, but a lot of the advice should still work.


Mostly not. I think there are quick start (or something) guides for a couple classes, but mostly it goes pretty deep, I assume because the only people who care enough to write guides are people who are enfranchised enough to know that if you combine a feat from Dragon, a magic item from a 3.0 Forgotten Realms book, and a PrC from Complete Mage it forms Voltron.

I love this quote.

[ottdmk]

I like to think my Soulborn guide (link in .sig) is pretty simple. Now, whether you'd ever want to play a Soulborn is debatable, but I like 'em and had fun writing up the guide. :smallbiggrin: And you only need a couple of books. (Magic of Incarnum, Magic Item Compendium are the main ones.)

[Zaq]

(though they were using 5e pregens instead of 3.5 quickstarts, and they played the game more like a hybrid between 5e and Cosmic Patrol than like D&D proper. But still.)

All 5e characters are basically pregens. The game's on rails. They basically looked at the 4e Vampire and said "yeah, like that, but for a whole system."

[Eldariel]

Core is simple enough to cover fairly comprehensively, really.

Tier 1 builds:
Druid 20 (or 1-2 levels of Hierophant at the end)
Wizard 5/Red Wizard 10/Loremaster 1/Archmage 4
Wizard 7/Loremaster 8/Archmage 5
Cleric 15/Thaumaturgist 5 (or 1-2 levels of Hierophant at the end)
Cleric 7/Loremaster 8/Thaumaturgist 5

Sorcerer 15/Archmage 5 (literally worse than Wizard in every way but if you want a Sorc, it's there)

Mixed casters:
Ranger 1/Wizard 6/Eldritch Knight 10/Casting +2/Ranger +1
Paladin 2/Sorcerer 6/Eldritch Knight 10/Casting +2
Rogue 1/Wizard 5/Assassin 1/Arcane Trickster 10/Casting +3
Wizard 12/Arcane Archer 2/Eldritch Knight 6
Monk 1/Druid 19
Monk 1/Cleric 19

Other builds:
Bard 20
Rogue 19/Shadowdancer 1
Barbarian 12/Fighter 2/Sorcerer 2/Dragon Disciple 4
Ranger 3/Barbarian 1/Fighter 1/Horizon Walker 10/X +5
Barbarian 20
Ranger 20
Paladin 20

Then there are some builds using the Assassin and the Blackguard with approximately infinite variants. And Monk-builds which are largely superfluous and really bad on low levels (just "bad" on higher ones).


General feats:
Leadership - Supergood for everybody, get a caster cohort and profit. Anyone loves a buffing, summoning, flanking Cleric companion. Lots of bookkeeping though, and superbroken.
Improved Initiative - Filling out the feats, this one is always useful if not a must-have. Melee characters want to position and potentially get the first charge in, ranged characters and casters can straight-up win encounters with big control spells and ranged damage.
Ability Focus [Monster Manual] - If you have a special attack such as Stunning Fist, Death Attack or similar, or if you like to shapeshift into a particular form with special attacks (e.g. Cloaker or Beholder), consider this to buff the DCs. Eye Rays from Beholder are all one ability for instance so one Ability Focus buffs them all. Same with Cloaker's Moan.
Flyby Attack [Monster Manual] - Can you Fly? This is great; no prerequisites and you can just cast and retreat instead of having to move in and cast.
Multiattack [Monster Manual] - If you are a shapeshifting type, you want this to make your secondary natural attacks more efficient.
Improved Natural Attack [Monster Manual] - If you are a Monk you can increase your Unarmed Damage Dice with this. If you like to shapeshift into really big things this can also be worth considering.

Caster Feats:
Spell Penetration & Greater Spell Penetration - Too useful to not have where other options to bypass SR don't exist. You can use SR: No spells but generally you'd prefer your whole toolbox to be open.
Craft Wondrous Items - The best crafting feat bar none.
Craft Rods - Metamagic Rods are really good and saving a pretty penny is nice.
Craft Magic Arms & Armor - Ironically Druids are the best users for this due to the value of the Wild/Animated-enhancement on their armor and shields.
Craft Wands/Scribe Scrolls - Generally you'll want to buy these instead of personally crafting, but the option is strong in low magic settings.
Extend Spell - Level 5 for Extended Rope Trick resting. Make your all-day buffs last all day earlier and eventually only cast them every other day. Also, useful for making 10 min/level buffs sustainable earlier.
Quicken Spell - The only way to really break action economy in Core; Grease, Glitterdust, Web, Entangle, etc. are timeless classics useful on every which level, and warrior casters can always benefit of Quickened True Strike (before Spirited Charge using full two-handed Power Attack) or Quickened Divine Favor (conveniently it just caps out at +3/+3 when you can Quicken it). Eventually Clerics can Quicken Divine Power even.
Empower Spell - Generally not worth it on damage spells as those scale with spell level, but e.g. Empowered False Life for extra temporary HP is nice. Kinda niché and generally better as a Rod (Empowered Summoning and getting lower level options en masse is quite nice), but worth noting.
Widen Spell - Really just Widened Antimagic Field if you're an Archmage with Mastery of Shaping. Otherwise, quite niché.
Improved Familiar [DMG] - Imp, Quasit, Pseudodragon are all great. Familiars in general are great and these can unambiguously use your UMD to UMD Wands giving you a second caster. Telepathy is useful, free Communes are great, all the spell-likes are nice and they come with good skills and stats to boot and you can add on top of that.
Augment Summoning - Summons are strong. Almost must for Druids and a strong consideration for Clerics and Wizards. The prerequisite is nice too as Conjuration has some of the best save-or-X effects at least on the arcane list.

Warrior feats:
Spirited Charge - Double damage on Lance is great. Triple damage is even better. No AOOs and getting to move past the enemy with Ride-By Attack is also useful. The only way for non-shapeshifting martials to get significant damage on the first attack post-6 when you don't get Iteratives (shapeshifters can use forms with Pounce like feline animals, Sphinxes, Hydras, Leonal Guardinal or Red Slaad; need base Outsider or Shapeshift to access the latter two though, but they're the only weapon users with Pounce).
Power Attack - You get more to hit than you get damage. This allows you to fix that, particularly against big and clumsy enemies you just have to bash really hard. Quite good particularly with bonuses like tripping (+4 vs. prone enemies), charging (+2), flanking (+2), higher ground (+1 off e.g. horsetop), etc. Also nice with buff spells.
Improved Trip - The only generally useful combat maneuver. If you focus on strength or can shapeshift, you want this. No AoO + massive bonus + free bonus attack on success, this is an insanely good feat. Get enlarged or polymorphed into something big to further this angle.
Combat Reflexes - If you use a reach weapon or have reach otherwise, and if you can control enemy movement (particularly through tripping), this can be very valuable to get enough AoOs to whack everyone over the head with a stick.
Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain - The only way to threaten nearby and far-off enemies two-handed at once. Quite useful, particularly if you're Enlarged.
Improved Unarmed Strike - The other option for threatening reach and melee simultaneously. Great for gishes to add damage to touch attack spells and to add full unarmed routine to your Wildshape/Polymorph Natural Attack Routine.
Improved Grapple - Situationally useful for particularly high BAB strength-focused and shapeshifting (the bigger the better) characters.
Stunning Fist - Decent for Druids. Monks can make use of this occasionally too, though Fort-save is the best save progression on monsters by a fair margin.
Weapon Focus, Specialization, etc. - Pick these if you have literally all the other feats you want. If you're a Fighter you might as well since you get nothing else.

Spells, skills and items would be way too long, but to that end just peruse the various class-specific guides such as Being Batman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?104002-3-5e-The-Logic-Ninja-s-Guide-to-Wizards-Being-Batman) & Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?439991-Being-Everything-Eggynack-s-Comprehensive-Druid-Handbook), and effect-specific guides like Summoner's Desk Reference (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?255219-The-Summoner-s-Desk-Reference-D-amp-D-3-5), Alter Self forms (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=2811) and Polymorph thread (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=519.0). They have decent analyses of the Core-stuff and those tend to be listed first so you can work from there. You can also peruse the Compilation of PHB-only Caster Tricks & Comboes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?514576-Compilation-of-PHB-Only-caster-tricks-combos) for some spell and effect combinations that can be brutal.

[Afgncaap5]

All 5e characters are basically pregens. The game's on rails. They basically looked at the 4e Vampire and said "yeah, like that, but for a whole system."

Mechanically I agree, though I've seen enough variety in character ability and characterization that I no longer have that worry when it comes to the actual game play.

[NomGarret]

I think the best guides mention sources and clarify whether something is good on its own or strictly in combo - particularly if it requires specific wording. When that's the case, it's pretty easy to get a feel for which book(s) you really want to use. Besides, you still get solid advice to pick between the options you do have.

[SirNibbles]

Now that I think about it, a core-only build guide might be a useful thing to generate...

Every guide that comes to mind is pretty simple:

1. Names abilities/feats/ACFs/etc.
2. Rates each
3. Gives source

Now look at the highly-rated ones and see which ones are from sources that you have. It's pretty simple.

[NecroDancer]

I assume because the only people who care enough to write guides are people who are enfranchised enough to know that if you combine a feat from Dragon, a magic item from a 3.0 Forgotten Realms book, and a PrC from Complete Mage it forms Voltron.

Can I put this in my signature?

[Cosi]

One thing you could do to cut down complexity is stop listing options that are bad. Trentmonk's analysis of Wizard sells is fine, but I don't need to know that touch of years is bad -- I already had no particular plans to cast it. In general, I think you should only list bad options if you believe they are generally overrated.


Can I put this in my signature?

Sure. In general, I have no problem with anyone sigging anything I have said without bothering to ask.