Ideal 3-person party for a one-shot game

[DEMON]

Hey guys!

The question is simple: What would be your preferred party composition for a 1st level and a 3rd level one-shot game (no more than a single level up is expected throughout the game). The composition and builds can differ for the 1st and 3rd level party.

Let's start with the source list:
- 3.5 only
- NO DRAGON this includes Dragon Compendium
- all generic 3.5 books, including Competes, Races and environmental settings
- all FR books
- Eberron books content allowed on a case by case basis, but access can't be assumed
- no other setting specific books
- no Vow of Poverty
- no TO cheese, only practical builds, please

And the adventure's specifics:
- 6-10 encounters expected
- traps (of unspecified nature) to be expected
- no more than 1 opportunity to rest throughout the adventure
- reliable source of out of combat healing highly advised

My personal group up is:
1st level
1/2-Orc Druid (Shapeshifter variant, racial sub level); lesser vigor
Dwarven Fighter (racial sub level); sword and board build
Elven Ranger (trapfinding, racial sub level, FE:Undead); archery build, 2H backup

3rd level
Halfling Druid (racial sub level, AC: Brixa); mounted combat, healing touch
1/2-Orc Barbarian (Pounce, Whirling Frenzy, racial sub level, trapkiller); 2H build, extra rage
Human Warlock 3 (otherworldly whispers); knowledge devotion

[Soranar]

Hey guys!

And the adventure's specifics:
- 6-10 encounters expected
- traps (of unspecified nature) to be expected
- no more than 1 opportunity to rest throughout the adventure
- reliable source of out of combat healing highly advised


So first you need a trapmonkey

Best option: Beguiler

-A trapmonkey with spells (mostly mind affecting save or suck)
-Lots of skillpoints
-high INT so high DC
-probably have enough spells for 1 spell per encounter which is enough (3+INT should give you at least 1 spell per encounter)

Cons:
-low hitpoints
-squishy
-relies on a light crossbow a lot (stand still to reload each round and shoot once) or a bow if you get racial proficiency

Decent alternatives

Ranger with disable trap ACF or Factotum

-Decent HP (d8)
-Lots of skillpoints
-Versatile (can use martial weapons, no reason not to have a bow and a 2 handed melee weapon)
-Despite the slightly lower BAB, the factotum also gets to use inspiration to add INT to something twice per encounter which works really well with a mounted build (since the lance multiplies damage and thus INT)

Cons :

-no spells (only 1 SLA at level 3 for the factotum), no particularly good abiliy at these levels


Rogue: too squishy, sneak attack is very limited at early levels

Barbarian with trapkiller ACF :
Limited trapfinding /disable trap is better than nothing


Healing wise

A crusader (with the stance that heals 2 hitpoints every time you attack) is really useful at early levels, a multiple natural attack build (say a kobold using 2 claws and a bite + multiattack) or an AoO build using a guisarme and armor spikes can provide quite a lot of healing and durability

Personally I prefer a guisarme build since they deal more damage against opponents with DR though they tend to heal less

As for typical healer types

-A cleric is pretty powerful even at level 1
-d8 hitpoints, ok weapons and full plate access

but a druid is a powerhouse at level 1 and 3
-the animal companion is basically another warrior
-better skillpoints
-ok armor

Personally I would go Beguiler, Crusader and Druid

-2 healers (Crusader and druid)
-2 bodyguards (Crusader and animal companion)
-2 casters (druid and beguiler)

[fredg742]

The druid is a must. I would replace the animal companion with an elemental companion though. It's an ACF in one of the Complete books. Earth elementals earth glide is nice and the air elemental is a great scout.

Currently in a 3-man team. All three of us are githzerai siblings.

1. Druid (w/Elemental companion ACF)
2. Divine Mind (or Ardent...I don't know...a psionic class I'm not too familiar with)
3. (me) Ranger (w/trapfinding ACF/Fighter (w/mobile fighter ACF)/Soul Knife/Soul Bow (last 2 are Pathfinder versions)

[DEMON]

Very nice analysis, Soranar. Really good points.

Druids are definitely a powerhouse from the get go. The Beguiler was my 4th option on both level ranges, actually (but probably deserves even better).


The druid is a must. I would replace the animal companion with an elemental companion though. It's an ACF in one of the Complete books. Earth elementals earth glide is nice and the air elemental is a great scout.

And another vote in Druid's favor :smallsmile:

I can definitely see an earth elemental companion for the 1st level druid. It's a powerhouse, combat-wise, and the earth glide makes it an excellent scout.
For a 3rd level druid, however, I'd probably go with a standard animal, because of the extra HD at 3rd level. At that level a riding dog or brixa gains an upper hand on most accounts (earth glide would still retain it's awesomeness, though).

[Eldariel]

3 Druids is frankly really solid. It's hard to go wrong with that. Though if you want Trapfinding, 2 Druids and a Cloistered Cleric (with the Kobold-domain) would probably be my choice. Frankly, casters are insanely important on level 1 endurance runs due to how few slots you have overall. Crusader is the only argument otherwise but I'd ultimately tend towards a Druid built for 1-3. Though a Wizard would also be really useful...Druid/Wizard/Cleric is also a solid choice (Wizard can trade familiar for animal companion with the ACF if not using Abrupt Jaunt; ½ progression hardly matters early on).

[Jay R]

I'd go with the traditional:

1. The arguing rules-lawyer who never stops talking.
2. The one who takes so many notes he can never find anything.
3. The guy ignoring the game while playing on his smartphone.

If you get a fourth player, he should be the back-stabber.

[ATHATH]

Why has Vow of Poverty been banned?

[DEMON]

Why has Vow of Poverty been banned?

Why everything gets banned. Because the DM said so.


3 Druids is frankly really solid. It's hard to go wrong with that. Though if you want Trapfinding, 2 Druids and a Cloistered Cleric (with the Kobold-domain) would probably be my choice. Frankly, casters are insanely important on level 1 endurance runs due to how few slots you have overall. Crusader is the only argument otherwise but I'd ultimately tend towards a Druid built for 1-3. Though a Wizard would also be really useful...Druid/Wizard/Cleric is also a solid choice (Wizard can trade familiar for animal companion with the ACF if not using Abrupt Jaunt; ½ progression hardly matters early on).

Interesting. Not necessarily surprising, but interesting.

So how would you say these classes compare to some other full casters, such as the Archivist or the Spirit Shaman?

Granted, the SS barely has any "spells known for the day" (i.e. spells retrieved), but he can swap these on a daily basis, so the versatility is still three, and he's got more spells per day than the Druid.

And the Archivist has a weaker chassis than the Druid, but, once again, more spells per day and a better spell list access.

[DMVerdandi]

3 True Neutral Psionic Warforged Artificers with otherworldly feat.


One focuses on Arcane. One focuses on divine. One focuses on psionic.

Running them all as god-machines descending onto earth to understand the world. Having charisma and wisdom deficits is what causes the shenanigans. Wacky adventures of them trying to philosophize in a dungeon coming from three different world views, all while slaying monsters with pew-pew lasers.

Influences would be from I,robot, Terminator, Ghost in the shell, The Iron Giant, Classic Philosophy and Bender from Futurama.
Stories would be like It's Always sunny in Philadelphia

The Robot Gods learn about love [Cue Succubus]
The Robot Gods learn about property [Cue dragon horde burglary]

[ATHATH]

3 True Neutral Psionic Warforged Artificers with otherworldly feat.


One focuses on Arcane. One focuses on divine. One focuses on psionic.

Running them all as god-machines descending onto earth to understand the world. Having charisma and wisdom deficits is what causes the shenanigans. Wacky adventures of them trying to philosophize in a dungeon coming from three different world views, all while slaying monsters with pew-pew lasers.

Influences would be from I,robot, Terminator, Ghost in the shell, The Iron Giant, Classic Philosophy and Bender from Futurama.
Stories would be like It's Always sunny in Philadelphia

The Robot Gods learn about love [Cue Succubus]
The Robot Gods learn about property [Cue dragon horde burglary]
YES. So much yes.

[Eldariel]

WInteresting. Not necessarily surprising, but interesting.

So how would you say these classes compare to some other full casters, such as the Archivist or the Spirit Shaman?

Granted, the SS barely has any "spells known for the day" (i.e. spells retrieved), but he can swap these on a daily basis, so the versatility is still three, and he's got more spells per day than the Druid.

And the Archivist has a weaker chassis than the Druid, but, once again, more spells per day and a better spell list access.

Archivist is solid, comparative to Wizard but depends entirely on their scroll access. However, lacking access to a bruiser on level 1 really hurts - Wizards can get a war-trained Riding Dog á la Druid and those can be replaced as per normal enabling them to both, control and fight. Archivist only have their spells, however good they may be. Also, single attribute focus enables the Wizards to invest more in physicals to use things like bows, guisarmes or such. Druids are the same as Wizards in this regard minus the need to do the swap - and they have a really tanky chassis in the first place. Clerics too but armor is really expensive over the first levels so full plate proficiency isn't that useful before you can afford one. I'd probably go Cloistered Cleric and try and get high Dex on all the characters for Initiative, Hide and AC (probably using Chain Shirts at best).

Spirit Shaman, well, you really need in-day versatility and no animal companion is a no-go. Level 1 Riding Dog (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dogRiding.htm) in Studded Leather Barding and trained for war (thus with Wolf's trip attack) is literally comparable to a Fighter (higher AC, mobility, HP and skills/utility, lower attack, damage and reach generally) or even better so you get two characters for the price of one when you pick a companion class.


The crux of the matter is, anyone on level 1 is almost as good as using weapons as the next guy. It's a stat check with +1 from BAB for some classes; being able to draw weapon as a part of movement is a nice boon but not nice enough compared to getting spells.

Speaking of which, I forgot to consider Mystic Ranger; it's certainly a better Trapfinder than Cleric if you take the Trap Expert ACF since it comes with full martial weapon proficiencies and a set of nice alternative class features and all the good stuff. However, it only gets 1st level spells on the second level so a Cleric is still better.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Hmm. Well, if you can be sure you won't advance past first level, I say just go with crusader, crusader, crusader. Maybe throw in something with Trapfinding, like a kobold domain cloistered cleric.

At third level, I like my incarnate/monk/crusader, so two of those, and throw in some kind of caster, the same cleric will do just fine.


Edit: Trap Expert mystic ranger is a good trapfinder, too. Hmmm.