I would like some help making Eldritch Blast a little more interesting

[Rebonack]

Yes, I know, with the right invocation investment there is in fact more to Warlock than 'I cast eldritch blast'. That's well and fine. What I'm hoping to do here is add a little spice to 'I cast eldritch blast' while also making the class a little less of a target for dip-bait. Simple explanation? The Warlock loses cantrip casting. If you take Tome you still get a selection of cantrips from other classes. Making that number scale with level a little bit might not be a terrible idea. That helps make Tome feel even more like the 'real full-caster' Warlock subclass.

So, no cantrips. Eldritch Blast is no longer a cantrip. Instead, it's a class feature gained at level 1 with upgrades at Warlock levels 5, 11, and 20 to strike a little more parity with the Fighter's four attacks. Using vanilla eldritch blast as our standard, we set up a range of eldritch blasts with varying ranges, damage die sizes, and rider effects that provide them with greater variety. Here's what I've come up with thus far.

You begin play with two blast types of choice. Ideally those blast types would have something to do with your patron. At level 5 you now fire two rays and get to pick a third blast type. At level 11 you get to fire three rays and pick a fourth blast type. At level 20 you get your fourth ray and can gestalt two blast types together for a pretty neat capstone (Eldritch Master is not a neat capstone). All blasts target AC. Blast types are as follows.

Beguiling Blast inflicts damage on the lower end of the spectrum. If the target is under the effect of some effect that ends on damage, Beguiling Blast delays that until the end of the target's next turn (unless someone else smacks 'em). Psychic damage.
Corrosive Blast would inflict a stacking AC debuff until the beginning of your next turn. More of a support-y option. Acid damage.
Fire Blast deals a bit less damage on impact than Force Blast, but it deals some secondary damage at the end of the targets turn. Fire damage, of course.
Force Blast is the vanilla Eldritch Blast. It's unchanged. Force damage.
Frost Blast deals damage and reduces the target's speed (stacking OnHit? Flat amount?) Cold damage.
Lightning Blast inhibits reactions and can be cast in melee without penalty. Ranged shocking grasp sans advantage against armored foes. Lightning damage.
Necrotic Blast deals damage and inhibits healing. Necrotic damage.
Radiant Blast I'm a bit torn on. Either a super-long range laser in exchange for lower damage than Force Blast or a small amount of temporary HP (as in one or two) per ray that hits. Radiant damage.
Thunder Blast deals damage and knocks the target back (Repulsing Blast, basically). Thunder damage.
Venomous Blast deals lower damage an poisons the target until after their next attack roll (or until the end of their turn). Poison is the single most resisted type, so it seems within reason to give it the strongest rider. Poison damage.

So those are the basic concepts I've got thus far. Now I just need to figure out how much range and damage the various effects are worth if vanilla EB is the template. And if anyone has better ideas for riders I would absolutely love to hear them.

[Desteplo]

"I summon bunnies that explode in impact"

"Lizards crawl from behind a painting and jump at the nobleman"

"My hand stretches out and claws at their necks"

[Steampunkette]

The fighter's final Extra Attack is their Capstone. Cap the Eldritch Blast casting at 3 with level 11.

Keep Cantrips in the Warlock's Repertoire. It's essentially what they lean on, heavily, thanks to the recharge mechanic of their very limited slots. If you wanna make Tome feel more Casty, give them an extra spell slot per long rest. Short rest if you wanna be crazy with it, but I highly suggest giving them nothing else in invocations if you go short-rest on it.

At 15, give the Warlock the ability to fire an Eldritch Blast Bolt (One missile) as a Bonus Action. That will keep you up with the cantrip scaling from other classes. It'll also let Pact of the Blade Warlocks feel Gishier as they get to fire off a single ranged magic effect while fighting with a weapon, plus they'll be at disadvantage to do so, or at least lose their advantage when they make a Ranged Attack in melee.

Alternatively, give them the Bonus-Action-Blast at 11 and the third "Regular" missile at 15.

Skip out on "Blast Types" being automatically granted. Just use the Invocation system that already exists, and add to it rather than taking away from it. It's cool to make Fiery Blasts and whatnot, but not at the cost of losing damage, IMO. Keep the damage where it is and give them more options of what it does, rather than forcing them to choose between using their class features. Less choice paralysis, there, as well.

[Vogie]

I mean, EBs you already get
1 beam at 1st level
2 beams at 5th
3 at 11th
4 at 17th

Stretching that out further doesn't make things "more interesting". Also the Various invocations, such as repelling blast and Grasp of Hadar are listed as "Can", so you can theoretically take either, then use whichever you like on each ray of EB.

I like the existing functionality of bladelocks using EB as a utility, while Tomelocks use it for damage, and chainlocks doing whichever they want. Yanking out all of the Warlock casting seems like a terrible idea.

However, I like the ability to tie style of damage to the patron. Making GOO patrons give you Psychic or thunder damage, Fiend could be fire or necrotic damage, Archfey could give poison or acid damage, undying gives Radiant or Frost damage, et cetera.

[clash]

I really like the idea of blast types. The problem with the invocatiosn as written is you can just apply them all. With blast types limiting it to one blast type makes it interesting. otherwise I just take all the invocations improving my EB and use them all on every attack and you end up just spamming a more powerful EB rather than having any intelligent choices.

[Afrodactyl]

I feel like EB should have been a class feature rather than a cantrip. Give it two blasts at level seven, and a third and level fifteen, and give it different effects dependent on which patron you choose.

So like additional burn damage for fiend, or a faerie fire type marking effect for fey or something.

:EDIT:
Correcting the auto correct.

[Ruebin Rybnik]

Yes, I know, with the right invocation investment there is in fact more to Warlock than 'I cast eldritch blast'. That's well and fine. What I'm hoping to do here is add a little spice to 'I cast eldritch blast' while also making the class a little less of a target for dip-bait. Simple explanation? The Warlock loses cantrip casting. If you take Tome you still get a selection of cantrips from other classes. Making that number scale with level a little bit might not be a terrible idea. That helps make Tome feel even more like the 'real full-caster' Warlock subclass.

So, no cantrips. Eldritch Blast is no longer a cantrip. Instead, it's a class feature gained at level 1 with upgrades at Warlock levels 5, 11, and 20 to strike a little more parity with the Fighter's four attacks. Using vanilla eldritch blast as our standard, we set up a range of eldritch blasts with varying ranges, damage die sizes, and rider effects that provide them with greater variety. Here's what I've come up with thus far.

You begin play with two blast types of choice. Ideally those blast types would have something to do with your patron. At level 5 you now fire two rays and get to pick a third blast type. At level 11 you get to fire three rays and pick a fourth blast type. At level 20 you get your fourth ray and can gestalt two blast types together for a pretty neat capstone (Eldritch Master is not a neat capstone). All blasts target AC. Blast types are as follows.

Beguiling Blast inflicts damage on the lower end of the spectrum. If the target is under the effect of some effect that ends on damage, Beguiling Blast delays that until the end of the target's next turn (unless someone else smacks 'em). Psychic damage.
Corrosive Blast would inflict a stacking AC debuff until the beginning of your next turn. More of a support-y option. Acid damage.
Fire Blast deals a bit less damage on impact than Force Blast, but it deals some secondary damage at the end of the targets turn. Fire damage, of course.
Force Blast is the vanilla Eldritch Blast. It's unchanged. Force damage.
Frost Blast deals damage and reduces the target's speed (stacking OnHit? Flat amount?) Cold damage.
Lightning Blast inhibits reactions and can be cast in melee without penalty. Ranged shocking grasp sans advantage against armored foes. Lightning damage.
Necrotic Blast deals damage and inhibits healing. Necrotic damage.
Radiant Blast I'm a bit torn on. Either a super-long range laser in exchange for lower damage than Force Blast or a small amount of temporary HP (as in one or two) per ray that hits. Radiant damage.
Thunder Blast deals damage and knocks the target back (Repulsing Blast, basically). Thunder damage.
Venomous Blast deals lower damage an poisons the target until after their next attack roll (or until the end of their turn). Poison is the single most resisted type, so it seems within reason to give it the strongest rider. Poison damage.

So those are the basic concepts I've got thus far. Now I just need to figure out how much range and damage the various effects are worth if vanilla EB is the template. And if anyone has better ideas for riders I would absolutely love to hear them.

I really like the idea you started here, I really like the elemental flavor you put into it. After seeing the Undying Light patron in UA it got me thinking about possible warlock pacts with other planes of existence. I think you idea could maybe be a pact with the Elemental Chaos. it take more time than posting a reply to flesh out but i'm going to spend some time and post it here if anyone is interested.

[Kryx]

I like the idea of different damage types. But I think the types presented are too elemental for the theme of a Warlock. I would go for the following:

Piercing (Fey)
Psychic (GOO)
Fire (Fiend)
Force (Seeker)
Radiant (Celestial/Undying Light)
Cold (Raven Queen)

Piercing wouldn't be resisted much as nearly all piercing resists weapon damage, which EB isn't.

Keeping cantrip or class feature mimicing cantrip would be how I'd do it. Class feature mimicing cantrips would less the dip-bait. You can also move Agonizing Blast to a later level requirement if it's an issue at early levels.

If you want invocations for special features like slow then add them on top imo (not allowing multiple to stack).

[Steampunkette]

The big reason I'm against Warlocks only ever getting 2 missiles or waiting 'til level 20 to get their fourth is simple: EB is where most of their "Special Class Damage" comes from.

Rogues get sneak attacks. Paladins smite both passively and actively... Not to mention the arcane classes relying on Cantrips between their big spellcasts.

Warlocks get the most powerful cantrip in the game (Improved by invocations) because it's part of what makes them special. So if you're going to turn it from a cantrip to a class ability to avoid too much double-dipping, don't weaken it by using less blasts or lowered total damage or making the class wait longer to do the same damage they would normally.

Because that sucks.

[Rebonack]

I like the idea of different damage types. But I think the types presented are too elemental for the theme of a Warlock. I would go for the following:

Piercing (Fey)
Psychic (GOO)
Fire (Fiend)
Force (Seeker)
Radiant (Celestial/Undying Light)
Cold (Raven Queen)

Piercing wouldn't be resisted much as nearly all piercing resists weapon damage, which EB isn't.

I had considered tossing at least some weapon damage types into the mix. It would especially make sense for a pact with powerful beings from the Elemental Plane of Earth. I specifically wanted to avoid forcing one (or even two) damage type choices based on the Patron, mostly because the default Patrons are very broad. Psychic damage, for example, might make sense for pact with Yog-Sothoth. But a pact with Shubby would probably lean more toward acid. I've got a GOO Warlock right now that has a pact with a being associated with information and have fluffed Shatter as a baleful utterance of Truth that damages reality itself. Thunder damage fits quite nicely for a Patron like that.


Keeping cantrip or class feature mimicing cantrip would be how I'd do it. Class feature mimicing cantrips would less the dip-bait. You can also move Agonizing Blast to a later level requirement if it's an issue at early levels.

My idea here was to try to keep the Warlock power level more or less intact. At the moment the Warlock gets two cantrips at level one. Of those cantrips, only Minor Illusion, Mage Hand, and Prestidigitation are terribly compelling choices since Eldritch Blast coupled with Agonizing Blast completely blows all other damage choices out of the water. Instead, the Warlock gets two blast types. They can go for more damaging options (1d0 Forceblast. 1d8+1d4 Fireblast or whatever dice value would be good) or controlling options (Thunderblast and Frostblast) or debuffing options (Corrosiveblast and Venomousblast) or they can just grab a pair of options that fit really well with their Patron. A gain in versatility should come with a price somewhere.


If you want invocations for special features like slow then add them on top imo (not allowing multiple to stack).

I really, really don't like invocations that simply add a bunch of power to Eldritch Blast. They're very useful, to be sure. Repulsing Blast can be absolutely silly in the right situations. Invocations feel a lot more compelling when they're being used to add new versatility to the Warlock rather than propping up core features. That's the big issue I have with Bladelock. I don't mind a single invocation that significantly improves a feature, but that should be it. One invocation that dials Eldritch Blast up from great to amazing. Taking that invocation simply means you plan on being a major damage source for your party rather than going for pure utility. Totally fine. But beyond that? Invocations are at their best when they're adding interesting new at-will or short rest tools to the Warlock's toolkit.

Obviously this is a subjective point, but hey, that's the fun of tossing ideas like these out for consideration.

And speaking of, do you have thoughts on how much damage or range the effects in the opening post would be worth?

[Kryx]

Sure, let them choose a relevant damage type, those were just examples. Adding damage types beyond the theme of the patron doesn't make much sense imo. So if a patron is fire then the warlock gets fire. If it's GOO, but loves its acid, then sure, the warlock gets acid.
It doesn't make much sense that a Cold Patron warlock starts throwing fire around though.


Of those cantrips, only Minor Illusion, Mage Hand, and Prestidigitation are terribly compelling choices since Eldritch Blast coupled with Agonizing Blast completely blows all other damage choices out of the water. Instead, the Warlock gets two blast types.
The damage cantrips surely are a waste with EB, but no reason to throw out the utility imo.


I really, really don't like invocations that simply add a bunch of power to Eldritch Blast.
My reply was directed mainly at Steampunkette. My main point is that the core functionality of a damage type themed EB shouldn't be stuck behind an invocation. But any damage or effect beyond current EB should be, for balance purposes. A warlock can then choose to focus EB or its other invocations.


And speaking of, do you have thoughts on how much damage or range the effects in the opening post would be worth?
Take the current cantrips as examples. Ray of frost for slow for example. Many of the ones you mention in the OP would be rather OP (AC debuff, poisoned condition for example).

The problem you'll encounter is that 4 attacks inherently makes each utility choice incredibly broken. For example:
Ray of Frost as EB: 4 attacks at 1,5,11,17. If each attack still does 1d8 and slows then you have up to 5 creatures being slow - that's insane.
The same issue exists for things like vicious mockery.
Acid Splash style would have the same issues, but less pronounced unless the enemies are all grouped together - 4 chances to get acid to an enemy within 5 feet which could be 4 times which would be 4d10 + 4d6 + 20.

Honestly I think it would be very very difficult to balance a set of utility based on EB's model of 4 attacks. I think you'd be much better off trying to buff all cantrips on a Warlock. For example agonizing blast and hex both work on all cantrip damage. 1 damage instead of 4 from EB is a problem which you'd need to address by adding more damage to other cantrips at each break point later, but it's be signficantly easier than trying to balance EB style debuffs.


If you're curious I reworked the Warlock in my houserules. I have a lengthy section on warlock in the beginning of the classes section about balanced invocations and other factors.