Dragon Centered Campaign

[Mortis_Elrod]

So I'm in the midst of making a new campaign with a very big focus on dragons. Essentially the rest of the civilized humanoid races are at war with dragon kind. This of course eliminates kobold and dragonborn from being player options (my players rarely pick them anyway) as they will be almost exclusively enemies. PC's will run into dragons and dragon people constantly as they are everywhere (in this world dragons are very fruitful and so are there children). I'm thinking of having the humanoid dragons living together like goblin kind does. With Half-Dragons being dumb brutes, kobolds being miniony and squishy spellcasters, and Dragonborn being the Elite race that rules them, complete with guard drakes for mounts and blood hounds, wyvern mounts as well, and weird Half-Dragon abominations.

The problem is, I'm not sure what levels the players should start at. The game is definitely going to start at least level 5, with the party running into a dragon right off the bat, ambush style, while the protect a caravan.

Has anybody run a similar campaign? Is just a Dragon usually fine or do you find it not challenging enough for you're players? should i start small, with wyvern attacks or something similar or just drop dragons everywhere?

Players aren't new, will have have money and items as per a very high magic campaign, and they will have rolled stats (expecting generally better than average with a lot of 18-20s early on )

[MrFahrenheit]

So I'm in the midst of making a new campaign with a very big focus on dragons. Essentially the rest of the civilized humanoid races are at war with dragon kind. This of course eliminates kobold and dragonborn from being player options (my players rarely pick them anyway) as they will be almost exclusively enemies. PC's will run into dragons and dragon people constantly as they are everywhere (in this world dragons are very fruitful and so are there children). I'm thinking of having the humanoid dragons living together like goblin kind does. With Half-Dragons being dumb brutes, kobolds being miniony and squishy spellcasters, and Dragonborn being the Elite race that rules them, complete with guard drakes for mounts and blood hounds, wyvern mounts as well, and weird Half-Dragon abominations.

The problem is, I'm not sure what levels the players should start at. The game is definitely going to start at least level 5, with the party running into a dragon right off the bat, ambush style, while the protect a caravan.

Has anybody run a similar campaign? Is just a Dragon usually fine or do you find it not challenging enough for you're players? should i start small, with wyvern attacks or something similar or just drop dragons everywhere?

Players aren't new, will have have money and items as per a very high magic campaign, and they will have rolled stats (expecting generally better than average with a lot of 18-20s early on )

A few thoughts on this:

1. So the metallic and chromatic dragons get along now, or did one kill off the other? If the answer is the latter, then you don't have to ban dragonborns from being PC races...just restrict them to descendants of the exterminated type. I'd be careful about a wholesale ban on the races you mentioned (but especially dragonborn) as it calls into question the permissibility of draconic bloodline sorcerers in such a campaign.

2. This kind of campaign actually solves the problem of mid-high play: dealing with monsters who, for story purposes, are only ever meant to be bosses, yet whose mechanics make for good mooks later on. If dragons are everywhere, and thus not special, then you can keep throwing them at the party as appropriate without worrying about breaking the "boss" mentality.

3. As for what level to start at, you have some options: 3 is probably the bare minimum since all single classed characters have a subclass by then, though 5 sets the party at its first major power boost. 8 is good too if you want to begin throwing dragons that aren't babies at the party, and also nets all single classed players two ASIs/feats (and fighters three). I wouldn't start higher than 11, though, without writing the storyline to be well into the height of the war, and also because that's the second major power boost (last one comes at 17, but at that point you may as well just run a one-shot or mini campaign).

[Emay Ecks]

The big thing to consider is how experienced your players are.

With new or less experienced players, you definitely don't really want to start beyond 5. Players usually need to organically learn all their abilities, combos, and most importantly teammate synergies as they level. Starting a group at level 8 (or higher) means you expect them to have the forethought to be able to know what those synergies are from paper alone.

So if your group are familiar with each other and familiar with higher leveled play, I'd say starting at level 8 is a good idea. If your group is somewhat newer (or has a newer player) and don't know each other well, lower is better. I think 5 is a very reasonable starting point for a dragon campaign, even a solo young dragon (those are like CR 6, and it's not even in a lair) would make a good starting fight.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Ok. So my players are familiar with each other and the game however we rarely have campaign last long into mid to high level play (something usually comes up IRL), So i think 5 is probably best, though 8 isn't impossible for them.

As to the Chromatic v Metallic question. When the war started, Metallic dragons tried to end it via diplomacy, specifically Bronze Dragons who shapeshift humanoids alot. Miscommunication occurred and this was seen as an attempt to infiltrate the humanoids meeting and thus a call for war was almost unanimously reached. The Bronze Dragon in question barely made it out alive and was tracked, hunted, as well as all the shapeshifting dragons. There was a big witch hunt for them too. So while the Metallic dragons are still around they are in hiding as beasts and other humanoids, because they are wanted above all. Metallic and Chromatic Dragons do not work in tandem, but they have a truce until this whole thing is done, and any of dragon kind can find sanctuary with each other.

[Specter]

A dragon right off the bat? Well, what kind of dragon are we talking about? Because even a baby dragon is a menace at that point.

It could start at level 5, but I'd wait to send any real dragon their way - if that's the plan, then level 8+ sounds good.

And remember, every story can benefit from betrayal. One of the PCs' allies turning to the other side and bathing in blood to become a half-dragon? Too good to pass.

[Mortis_Elrod]

A dragon right off the bat? Well, what kind of dragon are we talking about? Because even a baby dragon is a menace at that point.

It could start at level 5, but I'd wait to send any real dragon their way - if that's the plan, then level 8+ sounds good.

And remember, every story can benefit from betrayal. One of the PCs' allies turning to the other side and bathing in blood to become a half-dragon? Too good to pass.

Ohh that sounds really good. Maybe not a dragon at first then, maybe a half dragon/half winged monster or wyvern. Betrayal is a must in my campaigns (my players are paranoid and now antisocial waiting for backstabbery, they glared down an old lady offering pie, we all love it), so I'm thinking secret half dragon would be good...

[Torrin]

I find this an interesting setting idea, but wouldn't the humanoid mooks make more sense to have the half-dragon humanoids as the top layer? In previous editions, the half dragons recieved INT bonuses as it was assumed they inherited not only the might, but the superior mind and manipulative abilities of a dragon. Not trying to be cynical, just food for thought.

[Mortis_Elrod]

I find this an interesting setting idea, but wouldn't the humanoid mooks make more sense to have the half-dragon humanoids as the top layer? In previous editions, the half dragons recieved INT bonuses as it was assumed they inherited not only the might, but the superior mind and manipulative abilities of a dragon. Not trying to be cynical, just food for thought.

In this setting the Half-Dragons would be created by rituals mixing Dragon blood (donated by such dragons) with another creature. Which is why Half Dragons can't breed. Dragonborn are seen as the natural descendants, and are therefore superior.

In this edition the half-dragon template receives no int bonuses. They get resistances, breath weapons, blindsight, darkvision and speak or understand Draconic.

[JackPhoenix]

A dragon right off the bat? Well, what kind of dragon are we talking about? Because even a baby dragon is a menace at that point.

It could start at level 5, but I'd wait to send any real dragon their way - if that's the plan, then level 8+ sounds good.

And remember, every story can benefit from betrayal. One of the PCs' allies turning to the other side and bathing in blood to become a half-dragon? Too good to pass.

Well...

There's a dragon... adult dragon... in the first act of the HotDQ. At this point, PC's are level 1 (or 3 if they ran LMoP before). The dragon is hostile and attacking, though not specifically after PC's and not really interested in the fight, so he can be driven off easily with some damage (or one lucky crit). He's also mentioned in the first descriptive text in the module. Of course, there's a lot of NPCs for the dragon to kill instead of PC's...

[Falcon X]

Hoard of the Dragon Queen had you face an Adult White Dragon at level 7, which was a tough fight, so I would start there.

However, HotDQ also had you encounter one at Lvl 1 when you defend a tower against a Blue Dragon attack. The advantage there was that it had other targets to attack, and it didn't even want to be there. Score a crit or take it down to half and the thing would fly away.

Also, if you are looking for cool dragons for them to fight at some point, here are a few my players LOVED:
- The Twin Black Swamp Dragons Voaraghamanthar (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/wn/20040310a).
- Etherkai (http://www.epicwords.com/attachments/3874)the Nightmare Dragon
- Ashardalon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastion_of_Broken_Souls), the boss of 3rd edition. Gets some intro in Sunless Citadel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sunless_Citadel) from Tales of the Yawning Portal, which is a great lvl 1 adventure. More fun with him in Heart of Nightfang Spire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Nightfang_Spire)