Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound, a valid combat spell?

[spartan_ah]

it takes an action to cast. and no action to activate. invisible vicious 4d8 damage every round without concentration.
what prevents it from combat use?

[Jophiel]

It's immobile, for one thing, with a 5' range so the counter to it is walking away. It's not an actual creature with attack rolls from the description so I wouldn't allow it an attack of opportunity when someone leaves its area.

Technically the description says that when a creature "comes within 30'..." and not "starts within" so a DM could rule that creatures within 30' at the time of casting are exempt.

[N810]

Might be nice for blocking a door, hallway, some similar choke point during combat,
providing you cast it before your enemies get too close.

[JackPhoenix]

Valid? Unlike, say, Witch Bolt, yes. Pretty underwhelming and very situational? Also yes.

[Mith]

Could you use Glyph of Warding to trigger the Hound to create a choke point? Or is that not possible/impractical? I am AFB at the moment, so I cannot easily check.

[SharkForce]

well, that depends on how solid the DM thinks the hound is, since it is never stated to be able to block anything from going anywhere.

basically, it's quite good in combination with something else to hold a target in place. the precise nature of that something can vary (a grappling friend, a wall of force, a web spell, a pit trap, etc), but you pretty much need it to make the spell work.

bu without that something, most enemies will probably just walk away and it will do damage once or twice.

[Chugger]

Glyph iirc (also afb) has a long casting time. If you know a combat is coming ... otherwise not useful in combat.

The hound is usable in combat, sure. But don't you have a much better lvl 4 spell to cast? Fights don't tend to last long enough for 4d8 and no other effects to be a justifiable cast. I guess if you need to stand in a spot for a while and you know you're going to be hit w/ a steady stream of trash monsters....

[Finlam]

It would be good for Mordenkainen's pit trap. If you can dig a deep enough hole and push an enemy or two in, then they might take considerable damage before getting out. This sounds like a better NPC spell/dungeon trap spell than anything else.

[Kryx]

I increased the damage to 7d8 with 1d8 at higher levels (see Spell Balance (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1N4QC6EmXE0avgk8jK1aubJcaFoZDYw8b_DuPHh8aBTc/edit#gid=639488216)). It's still bad, but perhaps more usable.

[SharkForce]

It would be good for Mordenkainen's pit trap. If you can dig a deep enough hole and push an enemy or two in, then they might take considerable damage before getting out. This sounds like a better NPC spell/dungeon trap spell than anything else.

well, again, it all depends on how you use it. cast it right next to an adult dragon (space barely enough for a wall of force to trap) and then have another party member place a wall of force, and the dragon is stuck in the wall unable to get far enough from the hound to avoid taking attacks for the next 10 minutes. you probably just killed an adult dragon with no saves (so no legendary resistance to get out) and a couple of spell slots. if you managed to go before the dragon, you probably didn't even lose any HP.

(this does require 2 casters of course).

used well, it can be pretty effective.

[Kryx]

well, again, it all depends on how you use it. cast it right next to an adult dragon (space barely enough for a wall of force to trap) and then have another party member place a wall of force, and the dragon is stuck in the wall unable to get far enough from the hound to avoid taking attacks for the next 10 minutes. you probably just killed an adult dragon with no saves (so no legendary resistance to get out) and a couple of spell slots. if you managed to go before the dragon, you probably didn't even lose any HP.
You can do this same thing with many other spells that are much better and quicker:

4th level: Storm Sphere, Wall of Fire
5th level: Cloudkill, Immolation, Insect Plague

It's really just the Wall of Force spell being ridiculously OP.

[Chugger]

I like Mord's pit trap, but ... I go way back to the pamphlets, pre-AD&D, and certain spells were duds way back then (and still are). Some actually make sense now, like rope trick - hassle-free short rest for the party. Why you have to go up a rope to get into the pocket, I dunno - but since this can get up a cliff plus a free rest, hey, why not?

[SharkForce]

You can do this same thing with many other spells that are much better and quicker:

4th level: Storm Sphere, Wall of Fire
5th level: Cloudkill, Immolation, Insect Plague

It's really just the Wall of Force spell being ridiculously OP.

mordenkainen's hound doesn't require concentration. also, it deals force damage. not exactly the same thing.

[Dalebert]

mordenkainen's hound doesn't require concentration.

This. It is situational but you can also sort of create that situation if you have teamwork. You can have melee grapple creatures to move them close or keep them there. You can even solo this somewhat if you cast Telekinesis or if you have undead under your control or an elemental for instance. There are a lot of combos possible because it's not concentration. I'm also fond of Guardian of Faith as a combat spell for similar reasons. I've had it be very useful in combat when I used it with the right tactics.

It's true that it shouldn't get opportunity attacks but if you put it near melee or if melee close nearby, melee might be able to make AoO as creatures try to escape the hound.

[Kryx]

mordenkainen's hound doesn't require concentration. also, it deals force damage. not exactly the same thing.
That's true, I looked over that. But the combo is very niche.


You can have melee grapple creatures to move them close or keep them there.
A melee character will be doing more damage than the hound wound.
There are combos that can be coordinated, but other spells can much more easily do more with less investment in nearly all cases.

It's a very limited spell that has very niche uses. As others mention it's more of a flavor spell than a combat spell.

[SharkForce]

That's true, I looked over that. But the combo is very niche.


A melee character will be doing more damage than the hound wound.
There are combos that can be coordinated, but other spells can much more easily do more with less investment in nearly all cases.

It's a very limited spell that has very niche uses. As others mention it's more of a flavor spell than a combat spell.

the combo *is* somewhat niche... but it's also a niche that you can potentially create as needed. the main thing is that you need to be fighting something scary enough to be worth dedicating 2 spells to that specific creature, but which cannot just, say, teleport out of a wall of force, and is also not too large to be stuffed into a wall of force in the first place (you could also use something other than a wall of force, it's basically just an example.

certainly, it's not as versatile as, say... banishment, which is great all by itself without any additional spells. but it isn't hard to make use of, just usually more expensive than it would be worth. but given a choice between facing an adult dragon fair and square or blowing a couple of spells that are almost guaranteed to kill that adult dragon without allowing any pesky saving throws, just 2 spell slots sounds like a real bargain :P

(also, while the hound may be less damage than a martial character can deal, it might not be less than a martial can deal by giving up one attack to hold a monster in place for potentially multiple rounds of hound damage. though that certainly can vary depending on the martial in question...)