Out of the Abyss Character

[ArrixGrimm]

Last week I started a thread for a druid I wanted to make but our DM came down hard on me given the survival aspect of the campaign and how the druid could break this. After mulling it over for a few days I decided to go back to the class that I have always done well at....the Rogue. Now, In 5e I have noticed the Rogue has changed a bit and would like some insight. The base of the class is more or less the same, and the PHB Archetypes make sense but I need some help on two that are more..out there and are in the SCAG...The Mastermind and Swashbuckler.

The Question is, without huge spoilers to the game as we have only gotten out of chapter 1 and this character is to replace my Paladin, Which of the two is more viable for the adventure?

[Falcon X]

Mastermind vs Swashbuckler in OotA?

Rogue is a great choice, though these subclasses both have pros and cons.

Mastermind:
Pro - You might have a lot of NPCs travelling with you depending on how the players play. Thus, lots of people for a Mastermind to give it's help action to. Might also help for split second stealth checks and such, depending on the DM's rulings.
Pro- Insightful manipulator. There are lots of deadly things here, and the DM won't be doing appropriate challenge ratings, probably. Knowing if an enemy is stronger than you is a a good thing.
Con - Disguise is great here. However, a mastermind's disguise still relies on you being the right body shape. While you may or may not spend all your time in the underdark, a good many of the races you would try to impersonate would be underdark races. So, could your race have the body type of a gnome, dwarf, drow, etc? Look at the people you are in prison with. If you can't look like any of them, you need to rethink things.
Arcane Trickster with a disguise self spell might do better here. That or making your race Svirfneblin to get a free disguise self.

Swashbuckler
Pro - Fancy footwork. I could see hit and run tactics, and wading through hostile enemies, being great down here.
Con - With lots of NPCs and close quarter fighting, you will get less one-on-one fighting time than you would like. Most other lvl 3 rogue abilities would be better choices, I'm thinking.

If your DM allows any Unearthed Arcana, have you considered the Inquisitive? Heck, the Monster Hunter subclass from Gothic Heroes is great here too:
https://dnd.wizards.com/sites/default/files/media/upload/articles/UA%20Gothic%20Characters.pdf

[ArrixGrimm]

I did look into Mastermind since I was going to be the party face as well, though I was worried about losing combat abilities with it. As for the party, everyone but the Orc survived the escape, so we have a decent sized group. As for the disguise, I was thinking of going with a half elf...but I might be able to pull off a ghostwise halfling

[Clone]

Last week I started a thread for a druid I wanted to make but our DM came down hard on me given the survival aspect of the campaign and how the druid could break this. After mulling it over for a few days I decided to go back to the class that I have always done well at....the Rogue. Now, In 5e I have noticed the Rogue has changed a bit and would like some insight. The base of the class is more or less the same, and the PHB Archetypes make sense but I need some help on two that are more..out there and are in the SCAG...The Mastermind and Swashbuckler.

The Question is, without huge spoilers to the game as we have only gotten out of chapter 1 and this character is to replace my Paladin, Which of the two is more viable for the adventure?

To specifically answer your question: I'd take an Eldarin Arcane Trickster. You can teleport via Misty Step every short rest and then at level 7 (I think, away from Book atm) you can do it far more so. More resource based sure, but that'd be up to you.

Otherwise ask why your DM isn't allowing the Druid. If its about Goodberry, simply say you won't take it. Character concept is far more important.

[Dudewithknives]

I am currently in a OOTA game. It is going well so far.

A rogue is very useful for the group.

If your DM is ok with UA, I would look into the Inquisitive or scout.

Scout is amazing, by level 6 would could have expertise in 7 skills, all of which are great.

Between the 2 choices you presented, it comes down to 3 things.

Swashbuckler is a very charisma heavy class, so do you want to be the talker and social guy.

Mastermind is also great but better in a more stationary game. It is still great though.

Swashbuckler is more melee focused than mastermind.
Mastermind can really be ranged or melee, swashbuckler is mostly melee.

Also race makes a huge difference.

Tabaxi are great for swashbuckler and in the setting having a natural climbing speed is a huge bonus.

Try not to play a race without darkvision, it will bite you at some point.


No spoilers but if I was playing a rogue, I would look at a Kobold Scout Rogue with a shortbow.

[Vogonjeltz]

Last week I started a thread for a druid I wanted to make but our DM came down hard on me given the survival aspect of the campaign and how the druid could break this. After mulling it over for a few days I decided to go back to the class that I have always done well at....the Rogue. Now, In 5e I have noticed the Rogue has changed a bit and would like some insight. The base of the class is more or less the same, and the PHB Archetypes make sense but I need some help on two that are more..out there and are in the SCAG...The Mastermind and Swashbuckler.

The Question is, without huge spoilers to the game as we have only gotten out of chapter 1 and this character is to replace my Paladin, Which of the two is more viable for the adventure?

Either should be fine. There are plenty of social interaction and plenty of combats.

Speaking of which, your DM is wrong to have a snit fit over any class from the PHB. The druid doesn't bring much to the table if they're burning all their spell slots on goodberry. Druids are pretty much bottom of the barrel when it comes to combat contribution without spell slots.

Another concern is party make up. You're trading out from a Paladin to a Rogue...that is a big loss in terms of durability for the party, going from a heavy armor higher hit point frontline melee combatant to a low armor, low hit point support melee combatant. Does the party have at least one Fighter/Barbarian/Ranger to make up for the loss?

[ArrixGrimm]

We do not in theory, as the part is just me and a wizard since no one else wanted to play

Edit: We do have all the prisoners minus the Orc though

[Falcon X]

We do not in theory, as the part is just me and a wizard since no one else wanted to play

Edit: We do have all the prisoners minus the Orc though

Wow. 2-man Out of the Abyss. That's bold. Means you are going to have to try to not-fight your way through every situation.
Sounds awesome!
In that case, a wizard and a charismatic rogue are great choices.

Strategies:
A. Mastermind - In this adventure, you can build up an army of NPCs if you play your cards right. This is your goal. Do it. Do it all. Take a level of bard or trickster cleric to help out if you can.
B. Assassin - Very strong for this situation. Build yourself around diffusing every situation before it starts, either by killing or finding a way around it. Use your wizard's familiar to scout everywhere. Stealth your way through everything. Talk your way through next. Backstab decisively after that.
C. Arcane Trickster - Your most well rounded option. You don't need high intelligence here most of the time, so just boost charisma instead. Be ready to steal things, rely on disguise self, and have fun.

I don't see swashbuckler being a good idea as you either want to avoid combat, backstab, or swarm.

[ArrixGrimm]

So a Half elf Mastermind with the Courtier background is golden?

Edit: Or are their better backgrounds and Races that fit with the Mastermind?