Archer Fighter 6/Rogue 3/Ranger 3. More rogue or fighter?

[MrWesson22]

So, I am playing a wood elf longbow specialist who will be battlemaster 6/assassin 3/UA spellless beastmaster 3 (the assassin and beastmaster are for RP reasons, not for optimization). The short version is do I continue going fighter for third attack and indomitable from there or do I continue with rogue levels for bigger sneak attack, uncanny dodge, and evasion?

[djreynolds]

What kind of beast? Revised ranger?

More rogue is always good.

But I would grab 1 more of ranger for the ASI
Can grab lucky instead of indomitable.
And then go rogue the rest.

[MrWesson22]

I don't have the beast yet. I'm currently at fighter 6 with this guy. I like to plan for later. We run a pretty high powered campaign, and the DM is going to give me a large beast of some sort (so I can ride him). Yes, UA revised ranger (spellless variant for more battlemaster dice).

[Easy_Lee]

I don't have the beast yet. I'm currently at fighter 6 with this guy. I like to plan for later. We run a pretty high powered campaign, and the DM is going to give me a large beast of some sort (so I can ride him). Yes, UA revised ranger (spellless variant for more battlemaster dice).

Probably put five or six more levels in fighter in that case for more dice and the additional attack. An extra attack is worth more than 3d6 damage per round, especially if you have sharpshooter and BM dice, and is more reliable.

[MrWesson22]

Thanks, Lee. That's kind of what I was thinking too. Plus once I get third attack, the nova potential in a surprise attack would be insane - 6 instant critical attacks with action surge (d10 battlemaster dice added to damage on hits or used for precision attack in case of a miss) each doing 2d8+2d10+18 (I currently have bracers of archery and a +1 longbow). That's 228 average damage assuming all hits and battlemaster dice being used for damage effects.

[djreynolds]

I'm curious about the beast and what the DM will allow. The beasts get stronger now and flyby is nice for advantage, save on SD.

Also using your cunning action to hide as a BA, will help give advantage.

[MrWesson22]

I was originally going to story in finding or purchasing a gryphon egg and raising/training it, having it reach maturity at character level 12 (when I pick up beastmaster). He was cool with that, but he is coming up with some custom creature for me. I am not sure what it will end up being.

And the bonus action hide is my main mechanical reason for taking rogue levels though I need the assassin subclass for RP reasons as well. I'm also taking the elven accuracy feat which will be awesome with sharpshooter attacks.

[djreynolds]

I think since it's easy to max dex, you could go 11 fighter/ 6 rogue/ 3 beastmaster, you have 4 ASI there. SS, 2 ASI dex, and may be stulker.

However 12 fighter/ 4 rogue/ 4 ranger gives out 6 ASI.

And since your spellless, I can't persuade you about lightning arrow.

Consider mage slayer, the second perk about disadvantage on concentration checks has no distance/range requirments. Shutting down casters from up to 600ft is a boon. And SS with SA, you can force a roll every turn.

Looks like an awesome build

[Citan]

So, I am playing a wood elf longbow specialist who will be battlemaster 6/assassin 3/UA spellless beastmaster 3 (the assassin and beastmaster are for RP reasons, not for optimization). The short version is do I continue going fighter for third attack and indomitable from there or do I continue with rogue levels for bigger sneak attack, uncanny dodge, and evasion?
If you are currently Fighter 6, I'd advise you to start multiclassing right now.
If you go first for Fighter 11, you may never see your concept realized before the campaign ends.
Especially if you want to muticlass to get some mechanical benefits for your roleplay.
I'd get Ranger right now to get your beast, then maybe back to Fighter for 3rd attack then only take Rogue.

But honestly if you want mechanical features to "stress" RP and not optimization, why not just grab Ritual Caster feat with Find Familiar for a beast, and Alert feat for the "I'm not the one surprised but the one who surprises" thing?

That way, you can level up Fighter without doubts...

[Zene]

Do you like sharpshooting? Then fighter levels (extra attack and more/better precision dice) should be far more valuable to you.

If you don't like sharpshooting, the rogue levels will be a better way to go. Both to boost your damage better per round, and for the fun rogue defensive goodies and expertise.

[djreynolds]

I like cunning action. Hide every turn. You DO NOT have a bonus action after shooting your bow off... now you do. ASAP, grab stealth expertise and hide as a BA level 2.

[MrWesson22]

Yeah, I am definitely grabbing 2 rogue from here. I may go ahead and grab 3 ranger after that, then 1 more rogue. The main reason for rogue levels is the BA hide. We rolled stats and I started with 18 dex. I took sharpshooter at 4, took elven accuracy at 6. 3d20 advantage and a dex half feat is just too good to ignore. More fighter levels after the 6/3/3 build will clearly be more dps though the d8 to d10 BM dice is only 1 dmg per di per short rest. If I feel my character needing another ASI, I'll just grab another ranger or rogue level whenever. I plan on taking resilient dex to get to 20 dex, alert, and probably wood elf magic (guidance, pass without trace, and longstrider are all nice for this character).

[djreynolds]

I like resilient wisdom, it's crazy , but I know as a DM you might make that dex save anyhow with your +5 dex save. So I'm casting something like fear.

[MrWesson22]

Resilient wisdom is definitely a better fear, but with elven accuracy, I am at 19 dex, so I might as well take a dex half feat (my con, wis, and cha are all even numbers).

[Mechaviking]

Level 5 Rogue... READ IT, and tell me why you wouldn´t get that with an ASI instead of 3 ****ty ranger levels?

[MrWesson22]

Whoa there, keyboard warrior. What makes you think I couldn't get 5 rogue levels because I took 3 levels of ranger? 12 fighter/5 rogue/3 ranger is a perfectly viable build. But the original question was whether I take rogue or fighter further past the 6/3/3 split.

And those 3 crappy ranger levels give me advantage on initiative rolls, ignoring difficult terrain, a favored enemy, 4 extra battlemaster dice per short rest, healing poultices, an extra skill, an extra fighting style (close quarters archer), and the subclass features.

[Mechaviking]

Whoa there, keyboard warrior. What makes you think I couldn't get 5 rogue levels because I took 3 levels of ranger? 12 fighter/5 rogue/3 ranger is a perfectly viable build. But the original question was whether I take rogue or fighter further past the 6/3/3 split.

And those 3 crappy ranger levels give me advantage on initiative rolls, ignoring difficult terrain, a favored enemy, 4 extra battlemaster dice per short rest, healing poultices, an extra skill, an extra fighting style (close quarters archer), and the subclass features.

Fair enough :D

[Zalabim]

Whoa there, keyboard warrior. What makes you think I couldn't get 5 rogue levels because I took 3 levels of ranger? 12 fighter/5 rogue/3 ranger is a perfectly viable build. But the original question was whether I take rogue or fighter further past the 6/3/3 split.

And those 3 crappy ranger levels give me advantage on initiative rolls, ignoring difficult terrain, a favored enemy, 4 extra battlemaster dice per short rest, healing poultices, an extra skill, an extra fighting style (close quarters archer), and the subclass features.
You already have superiority dice. You wouldn't double them, you'd just have four. At best, you'd add levels together to determine when you get additional dice, but the literal combination would work like Channel Divinity between Clerics and Paladins. Just talk to your DM before you do that.

[Citan]

You already have superiority dice. You wouldn't double them, you'd just have four. At best, you'd add levels together to determine when you get additional dice, but the literal combination would work like Channel Divinity between Clerics and Paladins. Just talk to your DM before you do that.
Absolutely not.
Channel Divinity's multiclass is ruled out specifically in PHB as non stacking (because special "per rest" resource), whereas spell slots are considered stacking (progressive resource, like a "fuel"), Warlock apart. Which means that there are different rulings for different resources.

Because there is nothing addressing this particular case, because only a specific UA gives the same kind of ability, how the mix is managed is totally up to the DM, and both ways are valid.
Either consider that dice are "special-time" abilities like Channel Divinity and as such forbid the stacking (which is by the way kinda stupidly punishing player: either you accept the UA which the attached strings or you don't in the first place and find another way, through multiclass or homebrew). Or you consider them as a fuel and allow stacking (which is by far the best way to go, unless there is also a pure Battlemaster in the party, which would felt undermined in comparison).

Same with Manoeuvers learned: the closest thing to it would be Fighting Styles which are allowed to stack as long as you don't learn the same. Or spells known for casters, in which case also it's logical you can learn all (exactly like a Sorcerer 1 / Bard 1 gets more spell known and cantrips than a pure Bard or Sorcerer 2).

As long as OP is the only player with superiority dice in the party, there is absolutely no problem ruling in favor of stacks. Manoeuvers are indeed powerful, but not up to the point where having twice as many of them would break any encounter. You are still just enhancing weapon attacks in the end...
If there is someone else with the same manoeuvers, then your suggested houserule seems the best compromise.

[Zalabim]

Absolutely not.
Channel Divinity's multiclass is ruled out specifically in PHB as non stacking (because special "per rest" resource), whereas spell slots are considered stacking (progressive resource, like a "fuel"), Warlock apart. Which means that there are different rulings for different resources.
There are different rulings because the abilities are written differently. To get straight to the point:

From Battle Master: Superiority Dice. You have four superiority dice, which are d8s.
And farther down, "You gain another superiority die at 7th level and one more at 15th level."

From Martial Adept: If you already have superiority dice, you gain one more; otherwise you have one superiority die, which is a d6. (and there's errata on this, but it's not exactly profound.)

From Modifying Classes: Superiority Dice. You have four superiority dice, which are d8s.
And farther down, "You gain another superiority die at 9th level and one more at 17th level."

Literally, you have four dice. Then you get the feature again and you have four dice. I'm just saying to ask the DM instead of assuming that multiclassing with UA works in the most extreme way conceivable.

[MrWesson22]

My DM has ruled that my spellless variant ranger superiority dice and my battlemaster dice stack. I am the only one with superiority dice in the party, and our party in general lacks control, so extra trip attacks, goading attacks, etc will be quite balanced for the group.

[djreynolds]

It's a solid build.