Snake-like humanoids with reasonable LA?

[Allitra]

I'm having trouble finding humanoids with human/elf upper torsos and the lower torso of a snake. I know Yuan-ti halfblood and abominations both have or can have it but are fairly anthropomorphized snakes. The maralith is a clear cut example minus the arms and outsider type. And I'm confused by the whole medusa/lamia thing of having/not-having snake lower-bodies.
The yuan-ti halfblood with snake legs seems my best bet, but i can't find a reference for it to use. I only see the pureblood race. The halfblood only has a monster portfolio.
Also, i want to either use the half-dragon template/level-progression. My goal is to kinda go for a humanoid draconic wurm (cave/legless-dragon) vibe. Naturally, I'd prefer decent +LA.

[tyckspoon]

The simplest way to get what you want is probably the Replacement Tail Yuan-ti Graft detailed in Serpent Kingdoms; swap the legs/rear-most limbs of a creature for a yuan-ti snake tail. Reduces land speed, gives a climb and swim speed plus a constrict attack. Valued at 12,000 GP. Otherwise, you can reverse-engineer the stats for a Yuan-Ti Halfblood from the presentation in the Monster Manual (its minimum level is going to be its racial HD plus the given LA of +5, so it's not going to be a friendly number.)

[Wristlet Eater]

Shinomen Naga from Oriental Adventures fit this. The weakest, Greensnake Naga, only have +1 LA.

[Crake]

I'm having trouble finding humanoids with human/elf upper torsos and the lower torso of a snake. I know Yuan-ti halfblood and abominations both have or can have it but are fairly anthropomorphized snakes. The maralith is a clear cut example minus the arms and outsider type. And I'm confused by the whole medusa/lamia thing of having/not-having snake lower-bodies.
The yuan-ti halfblood with snake legs seems my best bet, but i can't find a reference for it to use. I only see the pureblood race. The halfblood only has a monster portfolio.
Also, i want to either use the half-dragon template/level-progression. My goal is to kinda go for a humanoid draconic wurm (cave/legless-dragon) vibe. Naturally, I'd prefer decent +LA.

There are noble lamia in expedition to the demonweb pits that do in fact have lower bodies as snakes. Pathfinder has them too.

[SirNibbles]

Savage Species, page 217 has Anthropomorphic Vipers which are "humanoid in all respects except they have snake heads" with varying ECL, including one with an ECL of 2 (2 RHD, +0 LA).

Page 216 has Anthropomorphic Constrictors which "have snake tails and no legs." The lowest ECL for one of these is 3 (2 RHD, +1 LA). It doesn't hurt that you get +6 STR/DEX and +4 WIS.

Unfortunately, both of these are Monstrous Humanoids. I'm not sure if them being of the Humanoid type was vital to you, so I thought I'd mention them.

[Celestia]

It's 3rd party, but Bastards and Bloodlines has the Sthein on page 50. It's an elf/naga halfbreed with an elf upper body and a snake lower body. No RHD, but +4 LA.

[Eldan]

What I've noticed is that, mechanically, having a tail instead of legs seems to do nothing whatsoever on the various snake man species. So, honestly, reflavour an elf. The mechanics are the same.

[SirNibbles]

What I've noticed is that, mechanically, having a tail instead of legs seems to do nothing whatsoever on the various snake man species. So, honestly, reflavour an elf. The mechanics are the same.

In some cases, as with the Anthropomorphic Constrictor, it grants a swim speed and a climb speed.

[Allitra]

Shinomen Naga from Oriental Adventures fit this. The weakest, Greensnake Naga, only have +1 LA.
I didn't know about these! They really seem to fit the bill, but it seems only the constrictor can actually constrict opponents (poison isnt important to me and being huge is great). Which i want to be able to do mechanically. However the +5 LA is intimidating. I also wouldnt know where to begin with converting the creature stats to racial stats, bonuses, and abilities.


The simplest way to get what you want is probably the Replacement Tail Yuan-ti Graft detailed in Serpent Kingdoms; swap the legs/rear-most limbs of a creature for a yuan-ti snake tail. Reduces land speed, gives a climb and swim speed plus a constrict attack. Valued at 12,000 GP. Otherwise, you can reverse-engineer the stats for a Yuan-Ti Halfblood from the presentation in the Monster Manual (its minimum level is going to be its racial HD plus the given LA of +5, so it's not going to be a friendly number.)
Is that really expensive? Is it better to get this tail than a LA adjustment race? Such as Shinomen naga.


Savage Species, page 217 has Anthropomorphic Vipers which are "humanoid in all respects except they have snake heads" with varying ECL, including one with an ECL of 2 (2 RHD, +0 LA).

Page 216 has Anthropomorphic Constrictors which "have snake tails and no legs." The lowest ECL for one of these is 3 (2 RHD, +1 LA). It doesn't hurt that you get +6 STR/DEX and +4 WIS.

Unfortunately, both of these are Monstrous Humanoids. I'm not sure if them being of the Humanoid type was vital to you, so I thought I'd mention them.
I dont think monstrous humanoid types hurts my idea. Unless it interferes with gaining dragon subtype from half-dragon template 3-lvl progression.

I dont have a build for this character. But the main idea is a natural armor & natural weapon attacker thar uses brute strength to rend/maim/crush opponents. No idea for classes beyond barbarian.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I dont have a build for this character. But the main idea is a natural armor & natural weapon attacker thar uses brute strength to rend/maim/crush opponents. No idea for classes beyond barbarian.
Anthropomorphic constrictors retain two important abilities: Improved Grab and Constrict. If you invest a little in size increases and grapple damage, you can do some serious crushing with your tail end. Works rather well with a little barbarian, a dash of warblade, a teaspoon of totemist, and Fist of the Forest on the side?

[Allitra]

Anthropomorphic constrictors retain two important abilities: Improved Grab and Constrict. If you invest a little in size increases and grapple damage, you can do some serious crushing with your tail end. Works rather well with a little barbarian, a dash of warblade, a teaspoon of totemist, and Fist of the Forest on the side?
Hm, which would be better the normal or huge constrictor? And how do i permanently increase my character size or grapple damage?

[SirNibbles]

Hm, which would be better the normal or huge constrictor? And how do i permanently increase my character size or grapple damage?

edit: i misread SS.

go large.

edit 2: The more I read, the less table A-58 makes sense.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Hm, which would be better the normal or huge constrictor? And how do i permanently increase my character size or grapple damage?
Grapple damage is just unarmed damage, so Superior Unarmed Strike will do it, and Fist of the Forest, too. Constrict damage is a separate value.

Size is a bit trickier, because permanent size increases get troublesome in typical humanoid built-up areas. Ideally, you'd get some manifestings of expansion, which can be adjusted to fit the area you're in. In general, psionic powers do some neat things for grapplers, so it's not a bad idea to dip something like psychic warrior.

[Allitra]

Grapple damage is just unarmed damage, so Superior Unarmed Strike will do it, and Fist of the Forest, too. Constrict damage is a separate value.

Size is a bit trickier, because permanent size increases get troublesome in typical humanoid built-up areas. Ideally, you'd get some manifestings of expansion, which can be adjusted to fit the area you're in. In general, psionic powers do some neat things for grapplers, so it's not a bad idea to dip something like psychic warrior.
The practicality of being large/huge and trying to traverse medium-creature-sized places isn't too much of a concern. Because I'm going for the aesthetic and combat utility of it. Though, I could avoid the issue with Shinomen naga's alternate form, so long as I'm female. But that's missing out on anthro giant constrictor benefits.

As for natural attacker (secondary-theme of grappling) build, how does this sound?: Barbarian 2/Half-dragon 3/Fist of the Forest 3/Totemist 5
I know it leaves 7 levels open and is probably out of optimized order, but for a start how is it? I'm not sure what to do with feats or the remaining 7 levels.
EDIT: This is going with the giant constrictor, just to be clear.

[ShurikVch]

If you OK with it, you may try to slap the Half-Ogre template on Greensnake Naga, and get Large-sized creature with LA +2

If mutations from d20 Modern are allowed (unlikely, but still...), Enlarged Form (http://www.d20resources.com/future.d20.srd/mutations/enlarged.form.php) is work pretty close to Powerful Build

If you especially want Huge size, you may try to use Half-Fiend variant (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630a) to get size bump to Huge; it will increase LA to +6, but give you about +12 more Str (exact number depend on the fiend-ancestor, may be up to +16)

[Crake]

Grapple damage is just unarmed damage, so Superior Unarmed Strike will do it, and Fist of the Forest, too. Constrict damage is a separate value.

Size is a bit trickier, because permanent size increases get troublesome in typical humanoid built-up areas. Ideally, you'd get some manifestings of expansion, which can be adjusted to fit the area you're in. In general, psionic powers do some neat things for grapplers, so it's not a bad idea to dip something like psychic warrior.

Bolded for emphasis, if you have improved grab, then grapple damage is the damage you deal with the attack you used to initiate the grapple, for example, a constrictor snake has improved grab on it's bite attack, and it has constrict, so a successful grapple check will deal bite damage plus constrict damage, not unarmed damage plus constrict damage.

[PrismCat21]

Shinomen Naga from Oriental Adventures fit this. The weakest, Greensnake Naga, only have +1 LA.

This is what I came here to suggest. Do it, they're amazing.

[Allitra]

The practicality of being large/huge and trying to traverse medium-creature-sized places isn't too much of a concern. Because I'm going for the aesthetic and combat utility of it. Though, I could avoid the issue with Shinomen naga's alternate form, so long as I'm female. But that's missing out on anthro giant constrictor benefits.

As for natural attacker (secondary-theme of grappling) build, how does this sound?: Barbarian 2/Half-dragon 3/Fist of the Forest 3/Totemist 5
I know it leaves 7 levels open and is probably out of optimized order, but for a start how is it? I'm not sure what to do with feats or the remaining 7 levels.
EDIT: This is going with the giant constrictor, just to be clear.

Also, which is better?: the shinomen naga, constrictor (Huge, same feats as giant constrictor, other fun abilties) OR the anthropomorphic giant constrictor snake (lower LA, requires work to get to what i want).

[Wristlet Eater]

If you are not sure how to convert monster stats into a race there is a handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?207928-Urpriest-s-Monstrous-Monster-Handbook) that might be helpful.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Bolded for emphasis, if you have improved grab, then grapple damage is the damage you deal with the attack you used to initiate the grapple, for example, a constrictor snake has improved grab on it's bite attack, and it has constrict, so a successful grapple check will deal bite damage plus constrict damage, not unarmed damage plus constrict damage.
That's for the initial attack, not the follow-up attacks from successful grapple checks, right?