Sneak attacking Archer

[Sleepypeet]

Ok guys ive been reading up alot on forums to try and min/max this build and havent really seen a good one yet. Right now im a lvl 11 rogue and am trying to "snipe". I can full attack and get sneak dmg on all the shots i shoot in a round including rapid shot and mythic rapid shot. Currently doing 4 shots per round with 6d6 sneak attack damage at Level 11. From what i can tell Sneak is a huge stat i need to keep increasing so i can hide from enemies so they are flat footed to get my SA dmg, I have already confirmed with my GM with these rules and she is allowing that. Some feats and rogue talents at increasing my damage would be a huge help as its falling behind the party somewhat. Please help

[Dancingdeath]

Quickest way to increase damage from where you are is going to be to buy some enchantment for that bow. The kind that confer the enchantment to the ammunition. Flaming/Shocking/Holy/ or Wounding as long as what youre atracking has a Con score.

[Mutazoia]

Quickest way to increase damage from where you are is going to be to buy some enchantment for that bow. The kind that confer the enchantment to the ammunition. Flaming/Shocking/Holy/ or Wounding as long as what youre atracking has a Con score.

As silly as it may sound at first, dip into one or two caster levels, and then grab the Arcane Archer PRC (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/arcaneArcher.htm) for at least 2 levels. This gives you Enhance Arrow (all of your arrows get a +1 enhancement bonus) and Imbue Arow (which lets you cast spells using the arrow as the center of effecct, even if it is normally a range zero spell) to add the spell's damage, your +1 enhancement bonus, your normal bow damage, and all of your sneak attack damage. The higher you get with caster levels, the more spells you have available to cast through/via your bow. (Imagine imbuing an arrow with Slay Living, or Disintegrate....)

If you take A.A to 4th level you get seeker arrows that negate cover and let you shoot around corners.

At 6th you can literally shoot through (non-magical) walls....

[Gruftzwerg]

A switch to thrown weapons would enable the option for TWF feat line to increase your attacks/round that profit form SA.

And while we are at thrown weapons, Bloodstorm Blade 2 lets your thrown weapons count as melee attack (Str to Hit & Dmg, enables Power Attack feat line, charge multipliers are also possible now). If you want to throw melee weapons as full attack, you need 4 lvls in the prc.

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If you wanna stay with your Bow, a Collision weapon enchantment (+2) gives a fix +5 dmg.

Or if you can convince your DM, there is Hank's Energy Bow (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061227a)! It's from the D&D cartoon setting. It's the supreme ultimate bow:
- force dmg
- no need to keep track about ammunition anymore
- ignore mischances against incorporeal
- Power Shot ability = Power Attack

[Mutazoia]

A switch to thrown weapons would enable the option for TWF feat line to increase your attacks/round that profit form SA.

And while we are at thrown weapons, Bloodstorm Blade 2 lets your thrown weapons count as melee attack (Str to Hit & Dmg, enables Power Attack feat line, charge multipliers are also possible now). If you want to throw melee weapons as full attack, you need 4 lvls in the prc.

___________________

If you wanna stay with your Bow, a Collision weapon enchantment (+2) gives a fix +5 dmg.

Or if you can convince your DM, there is Hank's Energy Bow (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061227a)! It's from the D&D cartoon setting. It's the supreme ultimate bow:
- force dmg
- no need to keep track about ammunition anymore
- ignore mischances against incorporeal
- Power Shot ability = Power Attack

A.A. is the way to go IMHO....once you get Hail of Arrows, you'll blow the mage out of the water when it comes to DPS (well once a day at least).... Hail of arrows lets you use ONE arrow to attack a number of targets equal to your Arcane Archer level....so let's say 6. Imbue ONE arrow with a maximized fireball....shoot it...it splits into SIX arrows imbued with maximized fireball. If your targets are close enough to each other, they each suck their fireball damage, plus the AOE damage from the 5 other fireballs right next to them....(plus all that sneak attack damage)

[Eldariel]

A.A. is the way to go IMHO....once you get Hail of Arrows, you'll blow the mage out of the water when it comes to DPS (well once a day at least).... Hail of arrows lets you use ONE arrow to attack a number of targets equal to your Arcane Archer level....so let's say 6. Imbue ONE arrow with a maximized fireball....shoot it...it splits into SIX arrows imbued with maximized fireball. If your targets are close enough to each other, they each suck their fireball damage, plus the AOE damage from the 5 other fireballs right next to them....(plus all that sneak attack damage)

Uh... Seeker and Phasing Arrow are 1/day. Like on a SINGLE ARROW PER DAY. Not even full attack - A. Single. Arrow. Best of all, it takes a standard action as does Imbue Arrow so you can't even combine the two. Hail cannot combine with Imbue either and vs. all but the silliest masses, full attack with Rapid Shot and Haste is more efficient and more importantly, can focus fire down important targets. Hail ultimately does very little outside army battles; and hordes of weak enough mooks are rarely threatening enough to care about killing immediately vs. slower.

Imbue arrow requires that you have lots of casting in the first place, something this build has none of and AA doesn't advance. Not gonna happen. And Enhance Arrow doesn't even stack with basic bow enhancement nor Greater Magic Weapon; it's literally never useful for a PC in a party.


Sad as it is, Arcane Archer is a steaming pile of turd for anyone but full casters dipping it for 2 levels for Imbue Arrow to shoot Antimagic Fields, and even then just more casting levels is stronger. The class is barely better than NPC Warrior. I would know, my first 3.5 character evolved into a Fighter 6/Wizard 1/Arcane Archer. Imbued Grease was the best I had. Pathfinder Arcane Archer is sadly not much better; the action limitations are still there and there's basically no means of combining Imbue Arrow and Hail of Arrows.


@OP: The best way to make this work is Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer > (eventually Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 10/Arcane Trickster 5). That way you can persist the spells that remove range and precision penalties (Guided Shot and Sniper's Shot) on Sneak Attack and increase your Sneak Attack damage (Hunter's Eye, you learn it through Unseen Seer Advanced Learning) and enable you to sneak attack Constructs, Plants and Undead (Vine Strike, Gravestrike, Golem Strike). All these spells are in Spell Compendium except for Hunter's Eye, which is in Player's Handbook II. If you can retrain, consider this and then just be a Rogue/Wizard using your magic to enhance your sneak attack and sneaking capability (Greater Invisibility is a really nice spell for Rogues for instance - and you can get Divine Power through a feat like Arcane Disciple to get full BAB too). Practiced Spellcaster gets you full caster level and this has boons like enabling you to Minor Creation for poisons to use or Greater Magic Weaponing yourself to maximizing the enhancement bonus on your weapon.

If you want to stay Rogue, max Use Magic Device skill and get Wands of said spells (Hunter's Eye can be hard to acquire since you need it on high caster level for real value) and use as needed. Learn Assassin's Stance (Swordsage stance from Tome of Battle) by either taking a level of Swordsage once your Initiator Level is 5+ (you can do it already) or pick Martial Stance-feat to acquire it. You might want to get permanently Reduce Personed to increase your Hide and you definitely want some source of Hide in Plain Sight (Wilderness Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogueVariantWilderness Rogue) can learn it as a Rogue ability; Shadowdancer gets an unrestricted version on level 1 and Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis [Tome of Magic] is an item that can make you Dark enabling you to hide). You also want the Darkstalker-feat [Lords of Madness], which allows you to attempt to hide from things with unusual senses such as Blindsight, Blindsense, Tremorsense, Scent and company.

You definitely want the Craven-feat [Champions of Ruin] to add your level to your Sneak Attack damage. It's a massive increase. Then just focus on your equipment and try and get full attacks from cover. You can get a Ring of Blinking to always have the miss chance necessary to sneak attack except for enemies with See Invisibility/True Seeing. This reduces the need for hiding and can allow you to pass through walls though it's occasionally painful. Your own 20% miss chance sucks but the pros outweigh the cons - you don't have to use it when you don't need it. And getting 50% miss chance vs. enemies is real nice too.

[KillianHawkeye]

So does Sneak Attack have the same range limitations in Pathfinder as it does in D&D?

[Psyren]

So does Sneak Attack have the same range limitations in Pathfinder as it does in D&D?

Yes, but Sniper Goggles (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/e-g/goggles-sniper-goggles/) remove it.

[Snowbluff]

Well, for the record Arcane Archer is only 2 levels long.

Also can anyone tell if this is PF or 3.5? It will determine what cheese I offer, and how to use Arcane Archer...

Also I refuse to give anything other than cheese.

[Gelcur]

It had to be PF since mythic Rapid Shot is mentioned. I do not know what options are available in PF but I have been working on a rogue archer with no caster levels for a long while for 3.5 and I can tell you it is not easy.

I can also confirm Eldariel's advice is spot on. If you dont want any caster levels max out UMD and Hide/Stealth, Craven feat is a must and dip Shadowdancer for the HiPS. Since you already have 10 levels of rogue you might find it easier to convince your DM to let you reallocate skill points than to change classes. A two level dip in fighter can help meet the feat tax for getting into Shadowdancer.

Good luck and happy hunting.

[Sleepypeet]

Yes This is Pathfinder and i do have some of the things mentioned. A pretty decent bow that generates its own arrows with wounding and seeking. My GM today said to plan to level 40! Like wtf? I was trying to optimize sneak attack as much as possible and also thinking of going ninja to get invisibility. Ninja also allows more SA dice. Not sure which class is the best way to go. DM also let me take Hellcat stealth so i am able to hide even in combat,. I do have craven feat and the 3 feats to make my SA dice roll a minimum of 4"treat all 1-3 as 4". But other than that i dont really know any ways to get my dmg higher other than more SA dice from leveling.

Darkstalker feat seems to be 3.5 and for pathfinder there is a mythic feat from trickster "supreme stealth" that is basically the same, Already picked up the tremorsense one, plan on getting blindsense and scent also.

Thanks for the help so far, more help is always wanted! i probably am going to stay rogue mostly and then just do a single other class to hit 40. reccomendations?

[Psyren]

At level 40 you probably should be a spellcaster. Never played that high so don't really have much in the way of advice.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Take some epic feats if you are going up to level 40.


Distant Shot [Epic]
Prerequisites
Dex 25, Far Shot, Point Blank Shot, Spot 20 ranks.

Benefit
You may throw or fire a ranged weapon at any target within line of sight, with no penalty for range.

Swarm Of Arrows [Epic]
Prerequisites
Dex 23, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus (type of bow used).

Benefit
As a full-round action, you may fire an arrow at your full base attack bonus at each opponent within 30 feet.

Improved Sneak Attack [Epic]
Prerequisite
Sneak attack +8d6.

Benefit
Add +1d6 to your sneak attack damage.

Special
You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.

Lingering Damage [Epic]
Prerequisite
Sneak attack +8d6, crippling strike class feature.

Benefit
Any time you deal damage with a sneak attack, that target takes damage equal to your sneak attack bonus damage on your next turn as well.

[Gelcur]

Funny enough the rogue I have been working on goes up to 40 also. Here are some more suggestions, again I know very little about PF so some of these might not apply there. And I am going to assume you want to stay out of a caster class.


The rogues special abilities are great and hard to come by especially Skill Mastery, take that with Savvy Rogue Feat to "take 12" on your important rolls.
If you have an abundance of skill points Knowledge skills + Knowledge Devotion feat can add a bit of extra damage but it will also counteract any negative Attack bonuses, can also be combined will Skill Mastery.
Even more skill points max out Spot check, as BloodSnake'sCha pointed out Distant Shot Epic feat is great only catch is you need to be able to see the thing you are shooting so Spot becomes very important.
If your DM will allow Leadership can be awesome as well. So instead of taking caster levels you can have a caster Cohort.
I haven't seen anyone mention the Splitting weapon special ability yet, that is always a useful.
UMD, UMD, UMD; Pick and choose spells from all classes, wand them up into wand slots, and go; Arrow Mind, Sniper Shot, Nerveskitter, Wings of Cover


PrCs:

Nightsong Enforcer1 - easy entry first level 1d6 SA
Guild Thief/Shadow Thief of Amn - technically you can take both, easy entry first level 1d6 SA. They also offer some interesting options if you want Leadership or other Bonus Feats it offers.
Any other 1 dip that grants 1d6 SA, there is a list of them online somewhere.
Void Incarnate: it is an epic level rogue class that I found and love, online (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20030418a).