Need in universe ideas to stop players from entering a dungeon

[Theodoxus]

So, I have a group of 2nd level players who've stumbled upon a megadungeon I've implemented for the end of LMoP. I wanted to showcase the fact that it existed... but the dwarf cleric wants to delve deeper into the dwarf mine, and has convinced the others to go along with his crazy plan. (They don't know it's a megadungeon, they just think it's a nifty dwarf mine to get artifacts from.)

I'm thinking about including a lockout mechanism that would require higher (say, 5th level) abilities to open. The most obvious would be spells; along the lines of Prismatic Sphere, that are needed to be cast in succession to whittle away at the wards. Obviously, if I require the use of 3rd level spells, that's a natural stopping point for the low level guys... but I was hoping for more creative solutions.

Say, a barbarian using Speak with Animals, or a fighter attacking a figure twice with the same weapon within a couple seconds... But I'm very much open to any other thoughts.

I originally contemplated just letting the players run roughshod over the dungeon until they ran out of resources or stumbled upon something too powerful and either died or tried to leave, but I'd rather they concentrate on completing the module and then explore the dungeon... having a definitive "You Shall Not Pass!" without making it a dragon or something is definitely preferable.

[Aett_Thorn]

You could always put in some sort of riddle password that they will get clues to as they go along with the main campaign.

For instance, if they need to say a passphrase, you could leave sections of it throughout books they find as they go along. Have the entrance way be a series of four doors, one for each part of the passphrase. Maybe two of the doors are open currently, but if they guess wrong, the third door closes. Guess wrong again, the fourth one closes, and can't be opened for a certain period of time.

[Falcon X]

A classic is to just have a cave-in.

How about you have a statue or guardian (Baelnorn (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Baelnorn_lich)?) that gives you a riddle that will be impossible to figure out until later in the game. This would give you time to create something you want them to go into if they ever come back.

It could require a drop of blood from an obscure creature that the owners kept as pets like blink dogs.
Or the owners could be descended from a particular tribe of dragons. They must have the dragonmark of that lineage, or just the blood. I would look up the appropriate lineage if I had access to my 3e Forgotten Realms books...

[Sariel Vailo]

Maybe what about having one lock to open the riddle ve in dwarfish one in undercommon. And one in celestial or druid

[Emay Ecks]

You could have the entranceway sealed off with a cave-in. And it would take a high leveled spell to do it safely (they could try doing it manually, but this could risk further collapse).

Maybe a previous group of adventurers tried to loot the mines, had to run for their lives, and collapsed the entrance on their way out to stop the monsters on the inside from chasing them out. They could even leave messages saying "Dangerous. Do Not Enter." And because no one ever listens to those (and the adventurers writing them would know that, too) they might also warn about one or two types of monsters living in the cave ("WARNING: Umber Hulks AND Purple Worms").

Edit: Lol Falcon X beat me to it. I really need to refresh before posting

[strangebloke]

Just have the first encounter be way over CRed. I assume that you intend this dungeon to be challenging for ninth level guys, yeah? So one or two tough encounters should show them what is up.

I realize that you don't want to do this, but its a way that illustrates a good degree of verisimilitude.

[Theodoxus]

Just have the first encounter be way over CRed. I assume that you intend this dungeon to be challenging for ninth level guys, yeah? So one or two tough encounters should show them what is up.

I realize that you don't want to do this, but its a way that illustrates a good degree of verisimilitude.

I primarily don't want to do it because I don't really want the players accidentally dying - and fine tuning an encounter that is too hard (and obviously so very early in combat) yet not insta-gib is pretty difficult. On top of that, if it leaves them scarred, they won't want to try their hand when they're able to adventure in relative safely.

I would hazard that a non-combat encounter that can't be bypassed, but with a known (if currently unavailable) solution would garner more interest to see 'what's behind the curtain' than a big monster that might be a TPK or worse, under-tuned and a big softy they run over with superior tactics and lucky dice rolls...

[CountWolfgang]

Quote Dante's inferno, and have a sign that says "abandon all hope, ye who enter here". That should get the message across. Or have a hag yell beware every step they take towards the dungeon.

[robbie374]

I primarily don't want to do it because I don't really want the players accidentally dying - and fine tuning an encounter that is too hard (and obviously so very early in combat) yet not insta-gib is pretty difficult. On top of that, if it leaves them scarred, they won't want to try their hand when they're able to adventure in relative safely.

I would hazard that a non-combat encounter that can't be bypassed, but with a known (if currently unavailable) solution would garner more interest to see 'what's behind the curtain' than a big monster that might be a TPK or worse, under-tuned and a big softy they run over with superior tactics and lucky dice rolls...

Since you created this mine in the first place, why not just make a second mine? Move your megadungeon to a different location that they can find later, and make this one a relatively short, mundane mine with nothing in it but a few level-appropriate monsters and some ordinary treasure (tools, gold pieces, low level armor and weapons, etc.)?

Or, let them go in, and when they all start dying, let one escape. On the way out, he can find some NPC cleric with enough raise dead spell gems to resurrect them. The NPC is in a fight himself and gets killed in a blaze of glory, the monster doesn't see your PC and leaves the scene. Your PC finds a way to save his friends.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

I like the above ideas at least as much, BUT, you could always make what they found a small mine with a hint of a larger mine at an undisclosed location. If it doesn't destroy the world you've created.

Back to the other idea, any ideas on how to create an obviously too hard encounter which will entice them to come back later?

I am imagining Count Dooku not killing a captured Obi Wan but trying to tempt him into joining his side (which was probably less evil than the Emperor's side lol). Your Dooku could use sleep on the party...then have your Dooku let the party free and let the party dictate his actions.

If they raise heck and vow to return have your Dooku put cursed items on each party member. One with a cursed girdle of stupidity or something if they try to return, bracers of sex change on another, -4 dex boots of clumsiness on a third. The party will have to hunt down ways to remove these items.

If they seem somewhat open to Dooku's suggestion have him give them a mission which isn't totally evil. Something like killing a corrupt town official who is also a thorn in Dooku's side.

[KorvinStarmast]

To enter they need the scale from a young green dragon.
hey wait, there's one in LMoP.
linkage. Dragon has probably shed a few, if they can make the dragon flee (or maybe beat it?) they'll be able to enter/unlock the mega dungeon.

[EvilAnagram]

My go-to was to nearly kill them in the opening encounter and let them know they're barely getting a taste of what's in store.

It's an organic way to introduce genuine fear for life and limb.

[SharkForce]

you have a dwarf who is supposed to be good at history checks related to stone, no?

and this is a dwarven mine, is it not?

should be a fairly easy check to know something about the place. for example, "the former guard were all experienced veterans, 20 dwarfs strong, and not one of them survived the attack on the mines" (and then show them the veteran stat block in the monster manual).

basically, just let them know that if they keep going (at their current level), they will die. if they then choose to keep going and die, well, you told them it was going to happen. not your fault any more.

[StoicLeaf]

Follow this step by step guide!
Only proceed to the next step if your PCs keep pursuing the dungeon.

Step 1, intimidate:
Place horribly mutilated corpses at the entrance. Blood and guts smeared all over the walls.

Step 2, demonstrate your resolve:
If they decide to proceed anyway, kill one of them.

Step 3, commit harder:
If they decide they want to throw their lives away, let them. Kill. Them. All.

Step 4, mock:
When the players roll new PCs and they "inadvertently" stumble upon the dungeon, describe their horribly mutilated ex-PCs and what fools they must have been. Transition into Step 1.

[Unoriginal]

Put a very powerful guardian in front of one of the door? The guardian can't get out, so the PCs can easily escape, but they can't progress either until the right moment.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Video game style- Something blocks the path. It'll move when they get further along in the game, or when they come back with the macguffin/power needed to remove the block. After all, you don't want to disturb all those puppies playing in front of the dungeon's entrance. Better leave them alone for now.

Threat style- Have an NPC warn them that it's dangerous. Have corpses everywhere confirm it. Have the first fight be a high CR deadly encounter that might not kill them, but will put the fear of the gods in them. Have something big and stupefyingly dangerous chase them, but design the entry of the dungeon in such a way that it can't follow them if they leave.

Timelock style- Their mission can't wait for them to go spelunking for treasure. Come back when the bad guy's defeated and the town is saved.

Out of game style- "You're not going in there. I built this place for you to explore later, and I just wanted you to get a taste of it early. I'm glad you want to go in, but let's finish the quest you're on first, then I'll be more than happy to show you what I've prepared".

Combination style- You could let the players know you don't want them going in there too soon, then use any of the previous options to hand wave in-universe why they couldn't. This is probably the best, unless you're really trying to keep the illusion of an open world.

[JackPhoenix]

Lock the door and hide the key?

[Temperjoke]

I would add another layer to the mine, with the new layer being the "small dwarf mine" that they're expecting. Within it, they find one section closed off with an unstable collapse. They could even find a report left behind describing how the mine had grown unstable over time and could collapse any time. The implication being that after that section collapsed, the dwarves took it as a hint to cease operations.

Then, later in the campaign, the players discover historical documents suggesting that there was an even bigger complex in that area that the dwarves hadn't realized was there, and if they had bothered to clear the more recent cave-in, they would have found the entrance to the mega-dungeon.

Or something like that. Or not.

You do you, after all.

[Whit]

I like the diir they can't open.
Either a clue statue riddle etc in dwarvish. Not sure what's above that they were searching but send them that way

[Armored Walrus]

I'm surprised no one has suggested linking whatever gate you use to the LMOP module itself.

When the party eventually reaches Wave Echo Cave, one thing they will find is that well of magical energy. It makes sense to me that Wave Echo's neighbors, if on good terms, would have had access to that, or had access to tools or keys that had been exposed to it. Give them a couple rooms they can explore, and then they come to a gate that can't be unlocked or torn down. The only way past is to expose something to the well of energy that's in Wave Echo Cave. Now they'll have double reasons to go explore Wave Echo, and a natural segue to your megadungeon as soon as they finish the module. Add some kind of document to the Wave Echo Cave portion of the modeul, or some other bit of the module, that will give them the hint that that's what they need to get by this gate, and you're all set.

Angry GM's megadungeon article will probably suggest other ways of gating that you could steal. One simple one is the water breathing spell. If the rest of the complex if flooded, they won't be able to come back until 5th level, when they can water breath to get further. If you have druid, they could go in by themselves at 4th level, but the rest of the party couldn't follow. Fly is another good key spell, again it comes online at 5th level, so maybe the rest of the complex is only accessible via a portal that is floating in the middle of a large chamber or something.

[Sigreid]

Generally I don't like the door that can't be opened yet trope, so a few ideas.

1. An encounter that will massively wound but not kill the party in the first round and won't pursue when they run.

2. mangled bodies.

3. A ghost with the mangled bodies that tries to warn them away.

If they press on, let the chips fall where they fall. It's a good time to teach them that they don't have plot armor.

[Theodoxus]

i did the door that can't be opened - sealed with red glowing dwarf runes... ominous, but apparently not enough - the dwarf wanted to start digging around the adamantine door that he estimated would be a DC 50 strength check to pull open. I placed that under the Lionshield Coster's boxes in Cragmaw Hideout. One end had the impossible door, the other a cabinet of low powered magic items (a pick, a maul and a warhammer, all +1 vs goblins and orcs; a set of dwarven chainmail that was +4 vs giants, a chain shirt that was +2 vs goblins and a shield that provided Uncanny Dodge, 3/long rest.

I'm adding a second exit in back of the cave at Wyvern's Tor, under a pile of bones. They haven't encountered it yet, but it'll have a similar impassible door, though the cabinet will hold only rotting food and rancid ale - signs that no one had been by in a very long time.

Finally, I'm adding the actual entrance (the one I don't want them to be able to enter yet) as a basement to the crumbling tower at Old Owl Well. Obviously, with Hamun Kost there, it's questionable whether they'll actually discover the true entrance - so I will be using a secondary entrance in Wave Echo... so this might all be for naught - but better to anticipate and have no need, than to find the players are more resourceful (because, of course they are) and not have a contingency.

I do appreciate all the advice - I'll probably go with a combination of riddles and quest items.

[90sMusic]

Signs that warn of danger aren't going to deter a typical adventuring party.
Riddles and puzzles you need clues to solve will end up with them spending hours fiddling around with them trying to cheat their way in and bypass the need for prerequisites or just having it not sink in that they can't go in there yet.

The best way to keep people out of a dungeon is to put a guardian in front of it that they can recognize and know that it will straight up pancake them if they screw with it and have it positioned in such a way that going by it to enter this dungeon would be a virtual impossibility.

Then they won't enter there until they believe they're badass enough to beat the thing.

[Armored Walrus]

Or, like I said. It's underwater ;)

[Kane0]

This has something to say on the subject (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWgc20zbRXk)

Step 1: Find but not enter
You've already done this step. It's not hidden anymore but you can have a locked door with a ward or glyph that needs a dispel magic or similar, a simple thing that delays them just a couple levels. A clear warning here is also handy but not necessary.



https://68.media.tumblr.com/16f7cd9355772ddfcab199142c07d06b/tumblr_inline_oev5oe3scn1rkapbx_400.jpg

The first cavern is huge and filled with bones. Any living thing that steps foot into the chamber causes some bones to animate into a large skeletal undead. More bones animate over the course of a couple rounds to grow and empower it and it has the unique capability of ripping out the bones of its victims to add to its mass. This is intentionally one of the tougher fights in the entire dungeon, but gives the party time to escape once they realise how bad their situation is. There is no loot to be found in this room.

Step 3: Chokepoint
Right after the first cavern is a long, winding passageway with a couple easy traps and things like piercers to slow progress. If the party just decides to dash the boneyard monster this slows them enough to allow it to form and chase them down before they hit the dungeon proper. There are also no rewards along this path.

Step 4: No rest for you!
Should the party come up with a brilliant solution to the first three steps at a low level your first real dungeon room is fully decked out with a creature encounter, puzzle/trap and loot. The gloves are off and the party is expected to be in full crawl mode from the get go, and if they didn't deal with the previous properly they have no chance to rest and prepare.

[greenstone]

Follow this step by step guide!

Wow. I wish this forum had a reputation system, because that post would be worth a bump.

What Stoic said is correct. Foreshadow the danger of the mine by showing horribly mutilated corpses of figures who are obviously more capable than the PCs (heavy armour, excellent quality weapons, magic wands and amulets - all now horribly smashed and twisted).

[Bobkin]

A high CR monster is trapped inside of a large open hall that directly connects the rest of the dungeon to the outside world.

Nothing the players do will attract its attention away from the gate that blocks it from delving further into the dungeon.

It constantly blasts the gate.

Eventually the players sense the roof beginning to fall apart and they should make their way to the exit immediately.

[Basement Cat]

When in doubt dump a big red dragon in their way. They'll get the hint. :smallwink:

Note: This was done to me back when I was a kid and despairingly bad at taking hints from the DM. :smallbiggrin:

[Theodoxus]

Well, the session was last night. The players discovered the location under the tower, but because they decided to fight 12 zombies... who notoriously made most of their saves vs dying - the night had to end without the hatch being opened... which gives me another week to fine tune the encounter.

Excellent ideas all :smallbiggrin:

[Spore]

You're dealing with players here. Their gut instinct is to go in there. The harder you try to convince them otherwise via subtle cues only push them in harder: "If the enemies are this strong, the loot must be amazing." I would place an horribly overpowered good aligned NPC - maybe a dwarven ghost of a slain high priest of his order or something - that guards the entrance as a lonely guard. The guardian says: "I contain terrible evil within these halls. You are not strong enough to aid me yet but come again later when you have unraveled the deeper mysteries of our god."

[Unoriginal]

Or you could make so the entrance actually looks like an empty cave, maybe with a monster living there, to anyone but those who know the method to reveal the opening

[Rogue_1]

Well, as a guy who plays Conjurers and Illusionist, I would recommend either a fear-inducement, as Anagram stated, some sort of guardian creature and/or puzzle that requires components or clues derived from LMoP's main story thread, or perhaps something cribbed from RoTR (Pathfinder), like perhaps a circle of statues that require certain items or spells got from the final villain to unlock. Good luck with the Lost Mine!

[Rogue_1]

I would personally put a bunch of subtly obvious spells draped over it, so eventually, as they realizing they're trekking around over and over again, they realize that there is something they need to acquire. Perhaps some sort of infused key or wand in possession of what's-his-name, the drow wizard at the end?

[Coidzor]

The only way to get in is to be named [Dwarf Friend] by the rightful ruler of a dwarf holt.

The only way to do that is to complete the quest(assuming they didn't get Gundren killed).

If you really want to drive it home, have it require the sacrifice of a living elf in order to open it. If they've already gotten to the point that they've heard of the Black Spider, then they'll naturally conclude that should lead to some drow somewhere down the road and get back on track to tracking down the Black Spider so they can get some phat loot.

Alternatively, you could make it seemingly obscure, like the central eye of a beholderkin, so they'll make a note to come back once they run into that sort of thing.

[MeeposFire]

Alternatively make a trick. Have what looks like an alternative entrance that has some encounters and leads a short ways through a short set of caverns that leads to a small cache of stuff or something. The players will think they found the treasure and will leave. Later you can give the players info that will tell them that there is more to the place and give them the key to get in the real entrance. The small cache could be a deliberate trick left by someone or just something close by that inadvertently tricks them.