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NecroDancer
2017-08-03, 04:55 PM
So I scanned the paladin class in the core rulebook and I thought I could use some minor changes. These won't entirely fix the paladin's suckiness but I thought it might help.

First Change: A paladin must always strive to do good in any form, from a simple act of kindness to a tremendous act of valor. Because of this a paladin must always be lawful good, neutral good, or chaotic good, any paladin that willfully does an evil act or allows evil to occur unimpeded becomes an ex-paladin.

Second Change: To prepare or cast a spell, a paladin must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level (Charisma 11 for 1st-level spells, Charisma 12 for 2nd-level spells, and so forth). The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a paladin’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the paladin’s Charisma modifier.

The first change allows a paladin to be a mix more flexible with their morals while still championing good 100%, this means a paladin could poison a tyrants drink to prevent the causalities caused by a coup, lie to a foe to cause them to surrender, and commit other unlawful acts (stealing, bribery, underhanded tactics, tax fraud, jaywalking, indecent exposure, etc) in the name of good alone.

The second change just helps the paladin stay less MAD by cutting out the need for wisdom.

I have very little knowledge about other noncore sources so if I accidentally made the paladin overpowered (or missed an obvious solution to the paladin's suckiness) I'm sorry.

Grod_The_Giant
2017-08-03, 05:11 PM
Nope, both are common and excellent tweaks. The first should eliminate a lot of code-based problems*, while the second fixes MAD neatly. You could probably go a bit farther, at that-- making Smite and (especially) Cure Disease useable more often would be nice. The latter is basically useless fluff at this point, and even if it were at-will it would only be vaguely useful fluff. The former... well...

Every fighty class in the PHB has something over and above their BAB that's supposed to make them a better fighter. The Barbarian has their Rage, for one or more entire encounters; the Fighter has their feats all day; the Rogue has Sneak Attack all day; the Monk has Flurry (in theory)** all day; the Ranger has their feats all day and Favored Enemy on occasion. The Paladin has their smite... but that's situational and is only a minor bonus on a very few fights/day. Even by core-only standards, it's a bit lacking. Giving it more uses (+Cha/day? Uses/hour instead of /day), converting it into an encounter-long thing like Rage (say, +Cha to attack and damage against evil for 1 minute), and/or granting a few bonus feats (copying the Ranger's progression with, say, mounted combat feats would work) seems like a safe bet.


*Except, perhaps, for the "allow evil to occur unimpeded" bit. That seems like a good way to encourage suicidal "I charge the evil king!" moments. At worst, it can create no-win situations-- if there are a bunch of high-level hellknights dragging an innocent off to be sacrificed in front of your newbie paladin, he has to either intervene (and die) or stand by (and lose his powers).

**Another useful minor homebrew? Give the Monk a full BAB and let them use Dexterity in place of Strength with unarmed strikes and Monk weapons (when unarmored). They suffer from missing a lot

Malimar
2017-08-04, 11:50 AM
My paladin fixes are broadly similar to yours. I go a little further with some of them, but yours are definitely a good start.


Smite Evil can be used the listed number of times per encounter rather than per day.
When a character uses Smite Evil, the attack also counts as Good for the purpose of bypassing DR/Good. (The same applies to all aligned Smites, e.g. Smite Good bypasses DR/Evil.)
Remove Disease can be used the listed number of times per day rather than per week.
At level 4 and beyond, caster level equal to class level.
Choose Wisdom or Charisma. Paladin spellcasting (including bonus spells, spells per day, and spell save DCs) and all defaultly CHA-based Paladin abilities (including Smite Evil, Divine Grace, Lay On Hands, and Turn Undead) are based on whichever you choose.
The Paladin's Code is moderately more forgiving than as written. Associating with an Evil character for the purpose of redemption or keeping them in line is permitted. Associating with an [Evil] Outsider for the same purpose may get you some side-eye from your god and your church, but isn't an instantly Fall-worthy offense, either.

My #5 is like your #2, except it allows the player to pick whether they want to play the archetype of a dashing, heroic paladin or a sagacious, wise one.

Your #1 is a somewhat bigger change than my #6. Mine explicitly allows for Roy-as-Belkar's-jailer relationships (and thus makes the Paladin less of an impediment to other players playing what they want to play), yours allows for a broader range of paladin alignments. But I also allow the other-alignment Paladins from Unearthed Arcana and Dragon Magazine, which amounts to much the same result.

But really, I think codifying changes to the Code may ultimately just be a fool's game -- you need to be a high-level lawyer to come up with something that won't lead to any problems (if you get too lenient, unpaladinish behaviors don't lead to a fall; if you get too strict, you can fall for perfectly paladinish behaviors; some versions of the Code have both problems). I'd generally say "adjudicate the Code on a case-by-case basis and err on the side of leniency".

Fouredged Sword
2017-08-04, 02:58 PM
I also like to allow LN judicar like paladins who exist to enforce the LAW, not get caught up in the morality of situations. They exist to hunt bandits, kill murderers, and enforce justice.

Frosty
2017-08-04, 09:36 PM
Let the Paladin use LoH on himself as a swift or free action as well. Increases survivability a lot.

Coretron03
2017-08-04, 10:23 PM
I recommend using the pathfinder Paladin. It does your 2# (Cha as casting stat), plus a bunch of other neat stuff like lay on hands as a swift action when using it on yourself, Better lay on hands (1/2 level+Cha uses a day that heals (1/2 level)d6), a much better smite evil (Pick a target, Deals (class level) bonus damage with a bonus to hit equal to your Cha, Deflection bonus to AC equal to Cha for attacks that come from your smite target, lasts the whole combat), can trade the mount for adding +enhancements to your weapon and A new mercy system which lets you pick effect you can cure with your lay on hands (From Sicken to Stunned Or disease's (Which can also give you a cure diseaseup to your amount of LOH per day) to poison). Overall, the Pathfinder Paladin is much better then the 3.5 one.