PDA

View Full Version : What Happens When A Game Gets Too Big?



Deth Muncher
2007-08-09, 01:16 PM
Hey guys. As a fairly new player, I wouldn't know if this is a problem that often comes up, but I figure, "Hey, these people seem to know what they're talking about."

The problem I'm having is that the campagin I'm in right now ballooned from a mere 7 players to...well, variable amounts, but decidedly much higher. The problem we have is that due to the excess of people, the game moves very slow, and unfortunately, the fact that most people tend to go for the "Kick Down The Door" style of gameplay doesn't help. The DM is starting to get bored with this, and that really sucks, because he has this really awesome storyline that, if the players would go along with it, would be super-terriffic. But our Dm is really nice, and doesn't want to kick anyone out of the game - or kill them, for that matter. So, how do we go and fix this so that it's fun for all aprties involved?

EDIT: I'm sorry if this is in the wrong forum, but this seemed the most appropriate, and I'm still getting used to the boards...

Kurald Galain
2007-08-09, 01:26 PM
Too-big games are a nuisance, because invariably some people will get all the play time and other people will get bored and draw out their MtG decks and so forth. Best advice is to split the group in two, imho.

Deth Muncher
2007-08-09, 01:29 PM
Too-big games are a nuisance, because invariably some people will get all the play time and other people will get bored and draw out their MtG decks and so forth. Best advice is to split the group in two, imho.

How right you are about the MtG...

My friend - also in the campaign - says "Well, lets just break off and do our own, EVIL campaign." Which honestly, could be cool. But the problem is that I like where our current GM is going with the story, its just people are so thick that he can't get it out. Although, if half of the party were to go away and do other things in the same campagin world, I suppose if we just met at different times...hm.

Grey Watcher
2007-08-09, 01:30 PM
I'll have to second. The best thing to do would be to split the group into two or three smaller groups (depending on the overall size of the group), and send them off on different, but related quests. For example, group A goes and looks for the fabled Rubies of Herring, while group B goes and attempts to rescue the God from the Machine. And so forth. They can communicate and coordinate via sending scrolls, and maybe, for climactic moments (ie huge brawls with the BBEG and his/her minions), come together for a session.

AKA_Bait
2007-08-09, 01:31 PM
I have to agree with ^^.

Whenever I have run a game that exceeded a pretty small number (even 7 players is a lot IMHO) the game tended to get bogged down for one reason or another. If it's too big a problem, splitting the group, cutting the group down or kicking people out is really the only option. The easiest way to handle this as a DM is frequently to say to the players in that 'variable' category that as a DM you need everyone to be there every session. The players who are devoted to the game will stay, IME these are also the folks least likley to pull out the MtG decks or laptops, and the others will go with a minimum of hard feeling. The DM just needs to phrase it in terms of their not being able to handle the in and out and not as an accusation of the players that come and go.

Damionte
2007-08-09, 01:31 PM
For new players you guys were too big at 7.

Deth Muncher
2007-08-09, 01:34 PM
Interestingly enough, we can almost do that now. See, theres this giant magic tree which has been giving us our missions. Now, our druid is linked to the tree....somehow. And, conviniently enough, it just so happens my familiar (Mud the Arctoad) is sort of a "walkie-talkie" to the tree. So, concievably, if one group had the druid, and the other had me, it could work.

MrNexx
2007-08-09, 01:34 PM
Really, when a game gets too large, you've only got a few options.

1) Get rid of people. Slough off a few people who aren't that much fun, to get the game down to the level you like it.

2) Start a spin-off game. Have either the same DM, or someone else, run a second game, with the same characters, for about half the party.

3) Train an assistant DM. Someone who can help run encounters and manage details, as well as give the DM someone to talk with.

Telonius
2007-08-09, 01:35 PM
Too many players - a problem that many people think they would like to have. While splitting the party is deadly to adventurers, it's good for players. Anything much beyond six or seven players is probably too many, particularly as you move to mid- or high-level. Combat takes forever, as players get more attacks and the DM needs to produce more (and/or deadlier) foes to match the increased firepower of the PCs.

I would bring this up to the other players and the DM. Remind them that each person gets less "spotlight" time, and less XP, when there's more people in the party. If everybody else is okay with it, you're kind of stuck. I would guess that, even if everybody's good friends, other people have been feeling the same as you have. It sounds like the best scenario, from your perspective, is if they group would split into two with somebody else DMing the second group.

Deth Muncher
2007-08-09, 01:38 PM
Ah, right. The one thing I forgot to mention: About XP? We don't...really....use it. I mean, for level ups and such, we just wait for the DM to say "OK, level up" (akin to the "Ding" in OOTS). I mean, if someone goes and has a gigantic side mission (it happened once) that would normally garner lots of XP, he goes ahead and levels them way up. But as to actually XP for levelling? Doesn't really happen.

Dairun Cates
2007-08-09, 02:15 PM
Just to add another drop in the already full bucket... Split the game into two games. I once heard a GM that runs like 10-12 person groups, but he talks in a later chapter how players will get bored waiting for their turn in combat... So yeah. He's full of crap, and I've never seen any more support for the psycho large groups theory.

Jayabalard
2007-08-09, 02:20 PM
split the game.

Get all the people who want to play the storyline that the GM has been trying to present to play in one game.

Get all the people who just want to kick in the door and kill stuff and take their loot together and have someone run a game where that's what they do.

internerdj
2007-08-09, 02:21 PM
I've run groups that large before. If people are getting bored a big game isn't for them. The big game for us was an excuse to get together and socialize. Splitting the group would have spoiled the whole point. Downtime waiting on turns wasn't a big deal since we were really there just to chat with each other. The tough part was picking a time when everyone could be there.

Nerd-o-rama
2007-08-09, 02:31 PM
Games with more than 4-6 players/characters are very difficult to work with in the standard format. Your campaign would probably move much faster, and you'd get that plot that you, the DM, and presumably some others want to see much quicker, if the game was smaller or differently-organized, with groups split up either between different meeting times or different co-DM's.

Now, online play-by-post or play-by-email D&D is a different story. I'm in a very successful campaign with about 20 other players, ranging in levels from 1-12. This is made possible by the game's sandbox/reactive nature. Of course, I think the DM's about to snap from the variety of plot threads he needs to follow, but that's neither here nor there.

Deth Muncher
2007-08-09, 02:37 PM
I think what I'm going to do is ask if the DM wouldn't mind moving the real campaign to Friday nights instead of Saturdays: That way, if he wants to have another, non-plot oriented game for the people who like "Smashy smash" on Saturdays, while the Plot-filled campaign can still go on with less interruption.

A clarification: My DM runs his own Game store, in case anyone wondered. And moving it to Friday wouldn't incur problems from FNM, because it pretty much doesn't happen...

Deth Muncher
2007-08-09, 02:50 PM
Right, so I went and talked to the DM a couple minutes ago. His whole problem is that no one ever does things the way he plans on, which is understandable, and he rolls with it. It's when people start doing stuff on other people's turns is when it gets out of hand. And he said we'd have that problem with 6 people just as much as 10 or 12. Plus, he doesn't want to run 2 campaigns.

However, the way it is right now is we're being dragged to the Magic Tree I mentioned a few posts ago. The tree is going to lay down what it wants us to do, and it'll be up to us to decide on what to do: Follow the tree, or explore the world. So, effectively, he may be splitting the party.

Dairun Cates
2007-08-09, 03:07 PM
Right, so I went and talked to the DM a couple minutes ago. His whole problem is that no one ever does things the way he plans on, which is understandable, and he rolls with it. It's when people start doing stuff on other people's turns is when it gets out of hand. And he said we'd have that problem with 6 people just as much as 10 or 12. Plus, he doesn't want to run 2 campaigns.

However, the way it is right now is we're being dragged to the Magic Tree I mentioned a few posts ago. The tree is going to lay down what it wants us to do, and it'll be up to us to decide on what to do: Follow the tree, or explore the world. So, effectively, he may be splitting the party.

Well then, sounds like its time to teach you assassination techniques instead. Weed out the weaker members.

Tallis
2007-08-09, 03:08 PM
I can totally understand him not wanting to run 2 campaigns. I've tried it and it really is too much if you've got a lot going on outside the game. Niether game ends up being as good as it could've been if the DM had concentrated on just one.
I recommend finding another DM to run a second game. Split the group so that each DM has 4-6 players if possible. Maybe some of the unreliable players just have a problem with satuday nights and another night would be better for them. The second game could be run on a different night.

Deth Muncher
2007-08-09, 03:22 PM
Well...as long as I could prove someone was evil, I could get the paladin to kill them. Silly paladins. Or, more easily, I could have the Blackguard do it, and just help him not get utterly devastated by the rest of the party.


Also, there is the other store owner. I think he may probbably take over.

crimson77
2007-08-09, 03:54 PM
I liked the idea about having two DM, i was going to suggest that, but with both DM playing at the same night in different rooms. That way different characters could be switching between the rooms. For instance, the parties could run in to each other and maybe swap some characters, etc. There would be a head DM and a secondary DM which was running a pre-approved quest or subplot for some of the characters. For larger boss type encounters the party might be able to all go together with one DM running half the monsters, etc.

Deth Muncher
2007-08-09, 03:58 PM
I liked the idea about having two DM, i was going to suggest that, but with both DM playing at the same night in different rooms.

Awesome idea, save for the fact that we're playing in a big one room store. :smallfrown: But I like that idea though.

tainsouvra
2007-08-09, 03:59 PM
Well...as long as I could prove someone was evil, I could get the paladin to kill them. Silly paladins. Or, more easily, I could have the Blackguard do it, and just help him not get utterly devastated by the rest of the party. ...you have multiple Paladins and a Blackguard in the same party? :smalleek:

Deth Muncher
2007-08-09, 04:04 PM
...you have multiple Paladins and a Blackguard in the same party? :smalleek:

Eh, sorry, I should have explained. The party is a bit jumbled right now. What happened was that at one time, we had two paladins. Then, one paladin didn't save the other from being smacked by an orc warboss. Said unsaved paladin was very mad, and somehow came upon a LE Intelligent sword named Hue. Said unsaved paladin denounced his friends, and Hieroneus, thus turning Blackguard. However, he snuck back to the party to try and find me, because I'm a caster, and he needs a caster cohort. Skip foreward a few scenes. We're in a battle against the orcs, and Mr. Blackguard shows back up. The paladin is very angry, and once the orcs leave, there's a Paladin/Blackguard showdown. However, this gets interrupted by pirates (don't ask....), and now we're all being carted off to see a Magic Tree.

EDIT: Wow, does that sound weird if you don't know what's going on.

Starbuck_II
2007-08-09, 04:09 PM
Eh, sorry, I should have explained. The party is a bit jumbled right now. What happened was that at one time, we had two paladins. Then, one paladin didn't save the other from being smacked by an orc warboss. Said unsaved paladin was very mad, and somehow came upon a LE Intelligent sword named Hue. Said unsaved paladin denounced his friends, and Hieroneus, thus turning Blackguard. However, he snuck back to the party to try and find me, because I'm a caster, and he needs a caster cohort. Skip foreward a few scenes. We're in a battle against the orcs, and Mr. Blackguard shows back up. The paladin is very angry, and once the orcs leave, there's a Paladin/Blackguard showdown. However, this gets interrupted by pirates (don't ask....), and now we're all being carted off to see a Magic Tree.

EDIT: Wow, does that sound weird if you don't know what's going on.

Problem is Paladins have a code forbidden from partying with him (Blackguard).

So unless you do two parties: you'll have two fallen Paladins.
Blackguards don' have a Code and thus can freely so party with anyone (ironically they are more Party freindly).

Deth Muncher
2007-08-09, 04:11 PM
Problem is Paladins have a code forbidden from partying with him (Blackguard).

So unless you do two parties: you'll have two fallen Paladins.
Blackguards don' have a Code and thus can freely so party with anyone (ironically they are more Party freindly).

Technically, we aren't really in the same party, as the paladin "left" the party to fulfill a silly oath thing. Right now, however, we're all being dragged, so it's not so much a "party" as it is a "mass of people moving in the same direction without a say of their own."