Black Pudding Split and Polymorph, D&D 3.5

[TonanBora]

So, this is both a player, and DM question. What happens to a Polymorphed Wizard, or Master Of Meany Forms in Black Pudding form when they split? Some would say it would create a new Black pudding, yet, read the Split ability very carefully:


Split (Ex): Slashing and piercing weapons deal no damage to a black pudding. Instead the creature splits into two identical puddings, each with half of the original’s current hit points (round down). A pudding with 10 hit points or less cannot be further split and dies if reduced to 0 hit points.

The ability explicitly mentions that the new puddings are identical (but with half HP). So would this not mean that the Mage/Druid just cloned himself/herself? If so, what would happen if the transformation effect ends?

Another thought that occurred to me, is that that identical clause refers to the fact that two puddings are created, and both are identical, which would mean that the mage/druid dies, and is replaced by two Black Puddings.

Any thoughts, and ideas are welcome. :-)

[Fouredged Sword]

I, as DM, to prevent things from getting REALLY crazy, would have the split puddings disappear when the spell ends and the character to reform out of one of the largest pieces. The argument would be that only one copy of the caster's soul exists and their body reforms around it. The rest of the pudding is made of the same stuff summoned monsters are made from and not really alive.

[Zsaber0]

I am sort of a mean DM. Since black puddings and most other oozes are mindless, I would have the player shift back from the largest piece while the other split puddings are once more your average mindless black pudding creatures that go on about their business.

[Dragonexx]

When the change occurs, your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item), or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. When you revert to your true form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on your body they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items you wore in the assumed form and can’t wear in your normal form fall off and land at your feet; any that you could wear in either form or carry in a body part common to both forms at the time of reversion are still held in the same way. Any part of the body or piece of equipment that is separated from the whole reverts to its true form.

Not sure how exactly that would apply in the case of splitting but...

[Zanos]

FWIW polymorph on it's own doesn't give Extraordinary special qualities.

[Telok]

Not sure how exactly that would apply in the case of splitting but...

Limbs

For extra fun find a random internal organ chart to roll on.

[flappeercraft]

I would allow it but then again, the foes can also use that tactic if players do.

[Anxe]

I would agree with Dragonexx's interpretation, but it might not be the most fun.

Actually creating black puddings seems outside the scope of a wild shape ability, so I wouldn't go with that either.

Maybe it creates spare body parts? Maybe both are still required for him to shapechange again, so he needs to keep all of his parts close together?

[Crake]

I would agree with Dragonexx's interpretation, but it might not be the most fun.

Actually creating black puddings seems outside the scope of a wild shape ability, so I wouldn't go with that either.

Maybe it creates spare body parts? Maybe both are still required for him to shapechange again, so he needs to keep all of his parts close together?

An 8th level master of many forms is both able to transform into oozes, and gains the Ex special qualities of the forms it transforms into, so it's certainly relevant in that case.

[EndocrineBandit]

I would rule it as it being a part of them. They would have two bodies during the effect but if the parts were not together when the effect ended.. i hope the player can survive split down the middle.

[TonanBora]

FWIW polymorph on it's own doesn't give Extraordinary special qualities.
Yes, I know, but there are ways around this, a fantastic example, is the Master Transmogrifist, which at level 8, allows the caster to gain all Special Extraordinary Qualities of his favored shapes.

Which, at level tens gains this ability:


Infinite Variety (Su): At 10th level, a master transmogrifist gains the ability to create completely imaginary forms when he casts polymorph, polymorph any object, or shapechange on himself. To create an imaginary form, he chooses one of his favored shapes as a base form. He can then choose a single aspect of a second monster whose form he could assume using the spell he is casting and add it to the first creature. His available options include the following.

> Replace the base form's natural armor bonus with that of the second form.
> Add the second form's movement modes.
> Add one of the second form's natural attack types (with the appropriate reach), if the base form doesn't have that attack type already.
> Add an extraordinary special attack of the second form.
> Add an extraordinary special quality of the second form.
> Replace one of the base form's physical ability scores, if both the base form and the second form are the same size category.

For example, if a young red dragon is the base form and a giant octopus is the second, a master transmogrifist could add the octopus's eight tentacle rakes (damage 1d4 + Str bonus) to the dragon's available natural attacks.

So, now we can complicate matters with a MT turning into a dragon, and gaining the Split ability, so what would happen in THIS case?
Does it split into dragons, or Black Puddings? This is why it is important to understand if the original disappears, or is one of the "Identical" creatures that get split off.

There are also other effects that can change a character/creature into said Black Pudding, such as the Metamorphosis power.

Another interesting dilemma, is the Assume Supernatural Ability feat + Protean Scourge transformation.
Protean Scourge's Split ability:

Split (Su): When damaged, a protean scourge splits into two identical versions of itself. This ability is not an illusion; each new protean scourge is fully capable of dealing real damage and poses a real threat. Each version of the protean scourge has all the current statistics and access to all the current abilities of a single creature, including any remaining uncast spells. However, any spells cast by either split protean scourge come from the total pool of remaining available spells. So, the two versions share access to remaining spells; each does not get its own spell list or spells per day. Neither half of the protean scourge can change shape as long as the creature remains split.

Each version has the protean scourge's current hit point total (they do not split remaining hit points), and both versions of the protean scourge must be slain to kill the creature.

The split protean scourges can recombine into a single creature in a process that takes 1 minute. While it recombines, the protean scourge is helpless.

Here, a caster can turn into this creature, and splits into to identical versions of itself (there is no doubt that the caster actually gets duplicated here). But the issue is what happens when the spell wears off, since the Split ability says that the creature cannot change shape as long as it remains split. This might refer to the creature's Change Shape Ability, but it does not say that it cannot USE it's change shape, only that it cannot change shape.

Also, since both are identical, does this also mean that every single time the Protean Scourge takes damage, it splits again? The Split ability does not say the the Scourge cannot split again afterwords, so I assume this is a yes.

Thanks for all the replies!