Some Sphere of Power Questions

[rs2excelsior]

So I've been looking at Spheres of Power, and I think it'd be a good system for a setting I'm working on--the standard Vancian magic of PF doesn't really fit well with the flavor I'm going for with the setting, and I think I can use the casting traditions to tailor magic to better fit the setting. I've got a few questions to make sure I've got my head wrapped around it:

1) Magical talents either add new spheres or talents that improve existing spheres. If you add a sphere, you get the initially listed powers, which may or may not need a spell point to use (or may have an increased effect when you spend a spell point). If you get a new talent, you get some additional or alternate effect based on one of the original abilities. Is this the essence of how the system works?

2) The two extra magical talents are only received when you first take a level in a spherecasting class, correct? If I were an Incanter 5, say, I'd have 10 magical talents (8 from levels plus 2 bonus talents), and at either extreme 10 spheres with no extra talents or 1 sphere with 9 talents, or somewhere in between. If I took a level in, say, hedgewitch, my magical talents and caster level would not increase, right?

3) It seems that none of the sphere talents have prerequisite talents or caster level. Does that mean you can take any talent at any time? Does this mean that it's easier to get broken/very powerful abilities (things like 4th and higher level spells) at low levels? Or, alternatively, does it mean that high-level spherecasters are less broken than high-level standard casters? One thing I want to avoid is overly powerful spellcasters and high-level characters that can ignore low-level ones, so I was planning on using Epic 6th level rules, and I'd like to know how these rules would interact with a 6th level cap.

Any help would be appreciated. It seems like a good system, but it's a lot to wrap my head around at first, so I'd like to get some perspective as to whether I get what's going on before I try incorporating it into my games.

[stack]

1) Correct.
2) Also correct. You only ever get the 2 bonus talents once on a character. CL, SP, and talents all go into a single pool when multiclassing, unless using a variant rule.
3) Basic talents have no pre-reqs, though some have escalating effects (avian transformation from Alteration, for example, doesn't give a fly speed until CL5). Abilities that are significantly campaign altering, too powerful for level 1, or otherwise difficult for DM's and under advanced talents. Advanced talents have prerequisites and require DM permission to take. This makes customizing your world and suiting your groups power level easier.

Note that some effects are available earlier that in the base game, such as warp sphere. This throws some people off. There are also many at-will abilities, but the strongest effects require SP.

[digiman619]

As far as E6 is concerned, remember that Extra Spell Points and Extra Magical Talent. Are already baked into the system as feats, so it should be fine.

[Afgncaap5]

Does that mean you can take any talent at any time? Does this mean that it's easier to get broken/very powerful abilities (things like 4th and higher level spells) at low levels?

In addition to what's already been said, the answer is "yes" though with one or two exceptions I don't think they're "broken" so much as they're things that we've trained ourselves to think of in terms of "You must be THIS tall to enter" abilities. Teleportation, flight, divination, and other weirdly high magical abilities in Pathfinder are often sequence breakers for a lot of pre-published modules and a lot of the adventures that GMs tend to make, but with a little alteration to story flow I think they're still perfectly fine. It will, though, take some getting used to.

[A.J.Gibson]

In addition to what's already been said, the answer is "yes" though with one or two exceptions I don't think they're "broken" so much as they're things that we've trained ourselves to think of in terms of "You must be THIS tall to enter" abilities. Teleportation, flight, divination, and other weirdly high magical abilities in Pathfinder are often sequence breakers for a lot of pre-published modules and a lot of the adventures that GMs tend to make, but with a little alteration to story flow I think they're still perfectly fine. It will, though, take some getting used to.

This is very true. D&D tends to assume certain abilities at certain levels, and people get used to them to the point they think they are overpowered if anyone else gets earlier access to them. But other games don't work the same way, may favorite example is Shadowrun: an intrigue-based game where someone in the party will have astral projection right from chargen. Hell, 4e had elves that could teleport once every few minutes from level 1.

[NomGarret]

1. Yes, though I feel like a couple exceptions have cropped up in the handbooks.

2. Correct. The second level of hedgewitch, however, would increase total caster level and talents, since they all get added together.

3. As has been mentioned, most of the particularly worrisome talents are gated by being advanced, which require DM permission. Several of those do have other prerequisites as well. Within the standard talents, there are level limited effects as well. I can take Creation>Expanded Materials at level one, but I'm still probably not going to be making adamantine walls in your E6 game.

[rs2excelsior]

In addition to what's already been said, the answer is "yes" though with one or two exceptions I don't think they're "broken" so much as they're things that we've trained ourselves to think of in terms of "You must be THIS tall to enter" abilities. Teleportation, flight, divination, and other weirdly high magical abilities in Pathfinder are often sequence breakers for a lot of pre-published modules and a lot of the adventures that GMs tend to make, but with a little alteration to story flow I think they're still perfectly fine. It will, though, take some getting used to.


This is very true. D&D tends to assume certain abilities at certain levels, and people get used to them to the point they think they are overpowered if anyone else gets earlier access to them. But other games don't work the same way, may favorite example is Shadowrun: an intrigue-based game where someone in the party will have astral projection right from chargen. Hell, 4e had elves that could teleport once every few minutes from level 1.

Got it. I think "broken" was the wrong word; I was thinking of abilities that start to drastically alter the paradigm from real-world practice and common sense. Y'all seem to have gotten the jist of my concern anyway. I'll have to look at it; there are things I like about SoP that fit the flavor I'm shooting for better, but I was also working with the level cap to severely restrict that kind of magical effect. I'll have to do some work with it and see how it fits.

Thanks for the replies, all, you've been quite helpful!