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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Class Chaos Sorcerer [base class tier 2 caster, not 40k]



gooddragon1
2017-08-04, 01:03 PM
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Waker
2017-08-11, 05:52 PM
Chassis
D8HD, 4 skills, medium BAB and one good save. Seems good so far.


Weapon and Armor Proficiency
At 1st level, a chaos sorcerer gains proficiency with any light or one-handed martial weapon of the character's choice. He also gains proficiency with light armor.
They are proficient with light armor, but I don't see any mention of ignoring spell failure.


Spells
They know and cast spells like a Sorcerer, but have spells per day as a Wizard. They are a bit weaker on the spell front, but the chassis helps compensate for that.


Chaos Fabrication (Ex)
Items created by a chaos sorcerer are infused with chaos magic and have a 5% chance when activated for the first time each day to replace the ordinary activation effect with a rod of wonder effect. This chaos magic can be removed in a process that takes 1 hour, gp or xp (chaos sorcerer's choice) equal to the amount necessary to craft the item, and the casting of a spell with the lawful descriptor (this use of the spell will override its normal effects and will not affect the chaos sorcerer's alignment). A detect magic spell can determine the presence of chaos magic in an item.
I can't see this as anything but a negative for an item crafter. Maybe if it did the normal effect in addition to the rod of wonder, it would be ok.


Positive Chaos (Su)
Beneficial spells cast by a chaos sorcerer on an ally or allies (whether from his own slots or from scrolls or wands that have been randomized by him) have a 20% chance plus any spell failure chance up to 40% (which replaces spell failure up to that amount) to have an additional temporary random beneficial effect on them and himself. Whenever a chaos sorcerer casts a spell that does not target an ally or allies (whether from his own slots or from scrolls or wands that have been randomized by him), they may choose for a positive chaos effect to have a chance to occur with regards to themselves. 0 level spells are treated as 1st level spells for this ability.
While I realize the class is a slightly weaker spellcaster, having this apply to every single spell that affects a target (along with Negative Chaos) seems problematic. One it has a chance to slow down play as you need to roll the percentile die for every spell, then the follow-up effects need extra rolling. Perhaps consider making Positive/Negative Chaos something the class does X times a day, rather than at-will.


Damage reduction equal to half spell level rounded up (1d6, 1 x/-, 2 x/adamantine, 3 x/cold iron, 4 x/epic, 5 x/magic, 6 x/silver) for 1d6 minutes.
Most of the chaos effects are fine as is, but I'd consider changing the X/epic to X/Lawful. The likelihood that you would run into an enemy with the ability to overcome epic DR is unlikely (the Tarrasque comes to mind), so having it as a selection makes it no different than X/-.


Randomize Item (Su)
At 3rd level, once per day a chaos sorcerer may permanently randomize a potion, scroll, or wand he touches. The item is rerolled on its respective magic item table (for scrolls there is a 50% chance that it changes type between the arcane and divine list table, also for scrolls roll only on the same spell level table) and if the new item has the same gp cost as the previous item it is changed to be an item of that new spell. Furthermore, the item is thereafter infused with chaos magic as described above in the chaos fabrication ability. Otherwise this effect fails to change the item and one daily use of this ability is wasted. The chaos sorcerer may use items he randomized even if the spell is not on his spell list and substitute his charisma modifier in place of the normal ability modifier required. The chaos sorcerer does not automatically know what new spell the randomized item will produce.
This seems like a fun way to play with those random scrolls you sometimes find in loot piles. Roll the dice and hope for a better spell!


Expanded Chaos (Ex)

At 20th level, Whenever a chaos sorcerer would roll a d6 he may instead roll a d8. In cases where the result is not numerical, a result of 7 or 8 is treated as a result of 6.
Does this include spells?

Overall it feels like a fun redo of a sorcerer. It loses a few spells per day, but makes up by having a sturdier frame and some actual class features.

gooddragon1
2017-08-11, 09:01 PM
D8HD, 4 skills, medium BAB and one good save. Seems good so far.

Somewhat inspired by the battle sorcerer I'll admit.


They are proficient with light armor, but I don't see any mention of ignoring spell failure.

I'll adjust the entry to direct attention to positive chaos.


They know and cast spells like a Sorcerer, but have spells per day as a Wizard. They are a bit weaker on the spell front, but the chassis helps compensate for that.

And the chaos effects :D.


I can't see this as anything but a negative for an item crafter. Maybe if it did the normal effect in addition to the rod of wonder, it would be ok.

It's to interact with randomize item so that you do incur a slight penalty for rerolling that can't be overcome with identify at will. It's also a negative effect of chaos (because there had to be something a player couldn't just get around by not using the class feature imo (to an extent anyways, since you don't have to use item creation)). However, I admit I'm not entirely sure about it and I could see just changing randomize item to incorporate a penalty. Up in the air about it, but leaning towards keeping it just because it's not too bad imo.


While I realize the class is a slightly weaker spellcaster, having this apply to every single spell that affects a target (along with Negative Chaos) seems problematic. One it has a chance to slow down play as you need to roll the percentile die for every spell, then the follow-up effects need extra rolling. Perhaps consider making Positive/Negative Chaos something the class does X times a day, rather than at-will.

Tbh, the part I was worried about is the bookkeeping (which is why I didn't make the effects complex), but I can see it slowing down play a little. Not that much though since you batch the effect on all the targets rather than rolling each one separately. It's at most a percentage roll (or another d20 roll given how spell failure seems to be in increments of 5%), a d20 roll, then 2 separate d6 rolls (1 to determine something either by 50% chance being designated through 1-3/4-6 or something else, and the other to determine duration). You could just roll all 4 right at the start of the spell (I designed it like that actually in part because of this concern). Not sure if that alleviates it enough, but it can't be worse than a druid summoner right :P?


Most of the chaos effects are fine as is, but I'd consider changing the X/epic to X/Lawful. The likelihood that you would run into an enemy with the ability to overcome epic DR is unlikely (the Tarrasque comes to mind), so having it as a selection makes it no different than X/-.

Good call. That's perfect for this class.


This seems like a fun way to play with those random scrolls you sometimes find in loot piles. Roll the dice and hope for a better spell!

Has the downside of needing to re-identify (various means can make this inexpensive) and remove the random component tacked on with an extra gp cost once you get what you want, but it can certainly be fun and useful. I wonder if I should restrict it to only the level they have the spell slot for, but to be fair leadership is broken and an npc can charge for the service in addition to the cost to remove the random component.


Does this include spells?

Every d6 roll you will ever make allows this choice. Unless the DM says otherwise I suppose (or you are using that d6 roll as a placeholder for another roll of a different type such as a percentage roll).


Overall it feels like a fun redo of a sorcerer. It loses a few spells per day, but makes up by having a sturdier frame and some actual class features.

Pretty much what I was aiming for. Less than the battle sorcerer as well, but every spell (technically not all of them, but more often than not) you cast from level 1 to 20 and beyond will be an adventure of it's own :) [Though the key with this class is... don't depend on the chaos effects, just enjoy them]

nonsi
2017-08-12, 09:12 AM
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How do you resolve the Sorc-Wis SL difference? Does a Chaos Sorcerer gain 2nd SL at 3rd level or 4th?

Chaos Fabrication: what items can an out-of-the-box 1st level chaos sorcerer create?

gooddragon1
2017-08-12, 09:04 PM
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How do you resolve the Sorc-Wis SL difference? Does a Chaos Sorcerer gain 2nd SL at 3rd level or 4th?

Chaos Fabrication: what items can an out-of-the-box 1st level chaos sorcerer create?

You get higher level slots than you have spells known, but you can prepare lower level spells in higher level slots or you can use metamagic on them.

For chaos fabrication: Scrolls can be created at 1st level.

Unrelated note: Never expected the srd to go down. I think I'll copy the spells known and slots available tables to this site.
EDIT: Tables added
EDIT2: I will mention that discrepancy in spell slots vs spells known in the spell section for clarification.

If I was to make an epic scaling version of positive an negative chaos it would be through an epic feat that would have the epic spells treated as the lesser of Spellcraft DC/2 & CL/2. Maybe limit the range of who gets the bonus or debuff though.

nonsi
2017-08-13, 12:50 PM
You get higher level slots than you have spells known, but you can prepare lower level spells in higher level slots or you can use metamagic on them.


Definitely an innovative approach. Not sure how much popularity it will gain (people tend to be conservative).





For chaos fabrication: Scrolls can be created at 1st level.


True. But it kinda shoehorns players to invest a lot of resources in item creation feats to exploit the full potential of this class. Not that it's problematic power-wise, but this might no be what a potential player is after despite liking the other aspects.




In general, I only have one issue with this class: Positive Chaos and Negative Chaos will have their toll on gametime (more rolls, going back to the tables...).






Unrelated note: Never expected the srd to go down. I think I'll copy the spells known and slots available tables to this site.
EDIT: Tables added
EDIT2: I will mention that discrepancy in spell slots vs spells known in the spell section for clarification.


A sad day indeed :smallfrown:





If I was to make an epic scaling version of positive an negative chaos it would be through an epic feat that would have the epic spells treated as the lesser of Spellcraft DC/2 & CL/2. Maybe limit the range of who gets the bonus or debuff though.


Never really found epic rules necessary myself.

gooddragon1
2017-08-13, 03:25 PM
Definitely an innovative approach. Not sure how much popularity it will gain (people tend to be conservative).

It's just for fun really, they can use it if they want.


True. But it kinda shoehorns players to invest a lot of resources in item creation feats to exploit the full potential of this class. Not that it's problematic power-wise, but this might no be what a potential player is after despite liking the other aspects.

It's just meant to offset the randomize ability in a way that's fun rather than a strict drawback. Tempted to make it so that if they craft a rod of wonder it has that same 5% chance to instead let you pick an effect.


In general, I only have one issue with this class: Positive Chaos and Negative Chaos will have their toll on gametime (more rolls, going back to the tables...).

Well, what I would recommend is just rolling 2d20 (since the armor failure is usually in sets of 5% and 2d6 when you cast a spell. Make sure to remember your activation % threshold. Then look up the effect and what happened. Write it down on a sheet of paper and put a d6 and d10 next to it to keep track of the duration.

I admit that it will take up time, but the effects are fairly straightforward at least.


A sad day indeed :smallfrown:

"Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got till it's gone..."


Never really found epic rules necessary myself.

Justin Case.

EDIT: Though I do need to modify one of the negative chaos effects (the damage dealing one) so that people can't use scrying to kill other people. (made it nonlethal (for those certain cases anyways))

EDIT2: Changed positive and negative chaos so that you don't have to keep track of their duration in combat (they last until the end of combat in that case). This will mean that all you have to do is write down the effect and who it affects. No constant need for duration management in combat. This will make it massively easier I think.