Some gamerelated questions from a noob DM

[Kaisenborg]

Some questions that i have had a problem with during my first two sessions with my noob group (me included)

If a player gets grappled is there some way of getting out of it without using the action to break it? Exemple: you are grappled by a giant octopuss and my player want to atk the tentacle to make it realese it's grip.
To me it sound logic that it would work, so should i just "wing it" when that sort of thing should make sence?

I want to have a dorw mage out against my 5 people 2nd lvl group. How could i Tune down the CR on him to suit the group. My Idea was to keep as much as possible and only change his most powerful spells, (lightningbolt, cloudkill) to still be strong but not 1-shot ppl. Is that and ok change?

[Koren]

The general rule I see a lot is DM>Rules. If you like something that doesn't follow RAW, do it anyway. So long as everyone is having fun.

[Quoxis]

If a player gets grappled is there some way of getting out of it without using the action to break it? Exemple: you are grappled by a giant octopuss and my player want to atk the tentacle to make it realese it's grip.
To me it sound logic that it would work, so should i just "wing it" when that sort of thing should make sence?


RAW? Nope.
Homebrew/House rule? Definitely.

I'd propose to split an octopus' HP in 8 equal parts, giving each tentacle one of them.
If the player(s) attack the one grappling arm, they can cut it off by reducing it to 0hp. If they attack the squid as a whole, well, bad for the grappled one. I personally wouldn't tell them that (unless they aren't overly creative) so they have to come up with the strategy by themselves.
Also: if they have a genuinely good idea that doesn't wreck your game or goes extremely against RAW and RAI, let them have it. It's a game for fun after all.

[Ninja_Prawn]

If a player gets grappled is there some way of getting out of it without using the action to break it?

From PHB 290:

The condition ends if the grappler is incapacitated.
The condition also ends if an effect removes the grappled creature from the reach of the grappler... such as when a creature is hurled away by the thunderwave spell.

Beyond that, I'd allow other creatures to make a Strength check as an action against the octopus' grapple DC to break the hold and I've also allowed people to use prestidigitation to change the flavour of the person being grappled, because apparently octopuses taste through their tentacles so they could be persuaded to let go by a disgusting taste. As for attacking tentacles, you could use the rules from the roper stat block, or have a read of this (http://theangrygm.com/dungeons-and-dragons-and-dismemberment/).


I want to have a drow mage out against my 5 people 2nd lvl group. How could i Tune down the CR on him to suit the group. My idea was to keep as much as possible and only change his most powerful spells, (lightning bolt, cloudkill) to still be strong but not 1-shot ppl. Is that and ok change?

For a party of 5no level 2 characters, you want (according to the DMG) to knock the CR down to about 4. The 'standard' drow mage is rated 7, though depending on how you measure cloudkill, you could argue that it's pushing 8. I make its DCR 1 and OCR about 15.

Let's see what happens if we take away those two spells... I guess the best attacking option is casting witch bolt V twice, then witch bolt IV? Kind of weird but okay. That's 30 DPR @ +6.

DCR: 1 (unchanged)
OCR: 4
CR: 3 (rounded up)
So, yes, a drow mage without lightning bolt and cloudkill should be fairly easy prey for your party, even if it keeps all of its spell slots. What I do want to say, though, is that solo monsters are almost never a good idea. They can't compete in the action economy and, in this specific case, they only have one concentration slot, which leaves them rather hamstrung. A better challenge might be to catch the mage alive. They have a lot of movement-related and battlefield control powers so it could be tough to keep them pinned down.

[Decstarr]

Unsure if that's raw and can't check right now, but iirc anything that moves the grappler away from the target should work, too. Our battlemaster has used the push maneuver successfully to break free of a grapple, but it might be a house rule. Aside from that, as the DM you can decide whatever you want, as long as you stick to it and inform the players about it.

About your drow mage: The CR doesn't matter as much if you do hidden rolls. If you realize mid combat that the enemy is too strong, you can always fudge your rolls to make it easier for the group, lower the HP of your boss or have other NPCs show up to salvage the day. Just be careful when using mages in general, as certain spells could instantly drop people to 0 HP or put them under conditions that are potentially lethal. I still remember my first accidental TPK when no one of my group made the save against the medusa's petrify...

Additionally, what Ninja_Prawn said: You should ever so rarely use single enemies. Action economy always favors the group and unlike video games, encounters against single enemies, especially if the group hasn't had several encounters before, always turn out to be way too easy for them. And I have a hard time picturing a mage without any form of martial bodyguards. He'd have to be really stupid, reckless or befallen of very ill luck to venture out on his own since he'll be a squishy :-P

[furby076]

New podcast on grapple. Might help. But i second the motion... wing it. And even do things like suggested by splitting the hp to the arms. So 50% body, and split the other 50% amongst the arms. You even have science to back you....if you cut off the tentacle of an octopus, the tentacle still does some basic actions.

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/dan-telfer-nerd-poker

[SiCK_Boy]

I have to disagree with the replies provided to this point.

Sure, you can always houserule and handwaive anything, but I think it`s a bad reflex to develop as a DM. You should turn to house rules when you want to fix something, rather than just for the fun of it, and none of the situations described seemed very problematic to me.

The most significant value of a grapple is the fact that it forces the opponent to "waste" an action to put an end to it. By offering additional options to your players, you are reducing the value and strength of the grapple action for the monster. The player is trying to get a free attack here, by getting a chance to both break the grapple and deal damage to the creature, when RAW, he should waste his action (hence, break the grapple, but not dealing damage along).

One compromise I could see would be using the idea of assigning HP to the tentacle and let the character break free if he can cut it, but if so, I would not count those HP as part of the monster's total. Even then, this is still granting an extra benefit to a character who possibly isn't proficient in either Acrobatics or Athletics (the usual two ways to break out of a grapple).

Regarding the drow mage, I would ask simply what is the point of sending a drow mage after the players if you don't want the monster to behave as it should? What makes a drow mage into a drow mage is the fact that it has these spells available and a certain level of power. If you want to make it weaker or unable to kill the players, then don't use a drow mage. Use a drow acolyte, or a drow commoner, or any other kind of variant drow. Again, the main point of a drow mage is that it is a badass caster that has access to some massive (relatively speaking) damage spells.

I'm sure there are other monsters that could fill the role you intend for this drow to play (would need more context on your adventure to provide advice) without having to resort to completely undoing the monster just so it's not too big a threat for your players.

If you do adjust the mage with a new selection of spell, don't forget to measure the change to its CR (and its XP value) as Ninja_Prawn did earlier. The last thing you want is to use a weakened monster, but then let it count as its "full version" once the time come to distribute rewards to the players.

[Kaisenborg]

Regarding the drow mage, I would ask simply what is the point of sending a drow mage after the players if you don't want the monster to behave as it should? What makes a drow mage into a drow mage is the fact that it has these spells available and a certain level of power. If you want to make it weaker or unable to kill the players, then don't use a drow mage. Use a drow acolyte, or a drow commoner, or any other kind of variant drow. Again, the main point of a drow mage is that it is a badass caster that has access to some massive (relatively speaking) damage spells.

I'm sure there are other monsters that could fill the role you intend for this drow to play (would need more context on your adventure to provide advice) without having to resort to completely undoing the monster just so it's not too big a threat for your players.

If you do adjust the mage with a new selection of spell, don't forget to measure the change to its CR (and its XP value) as Ninja_Prawn did earlier. The last thing you want is to use a weakened monster, but then let it count as its "full version" once the time come to distribute rewards to the players.


I was looking through the MM (monster manual) and the most fitting i could find without doing to much was the dorw mage and he fit perfectly in my setting.

The setting is my players were kidnapped and set in prison without any memory, they then fought their way through the underdark dungeon and found frankenstein-ish monster humanoids and eventually will find the lair or labratory of thes drow who is using a magic stone to create an army.

I have used a lot from Drunkens and dragons on youtube. i would have made a cutsom wizard or mage or anything that could fit the mad sientist feel but the drow mage was the easiest one for me.

And the drow also has the summon demon to be a good meatshield.

any suggestions to what would fit other than the drow?

or should i make it to a whole other encounter?

[Ninja_Prawn]

any suggestions to what would fit other than the drow?

I say tweaking monster spell lists is fair game. Not every mage is identical, after all! The whole beauty of D&D is that you can do whatever you want with it, so if you want a mad scientist drow, there's nothing to stop you.

And it's not like you'll be saying "you see a drow mage. Please turn to page 129 of your monster manual for further details. Roll initiative." You'll presumably be more like "you enter the laboratory and see a dark-skinned man hunched over a table, furiously mixing reagents. Hearing you open the door, he spins around and laughs maniacally, fire in his eyes. You're too late! he shrieks. The ritual is already complete! Infinite power will be miiiine!! Suddenly, a pair of twisted demons appear at his side - roll initiative!" You players don't need to know that it's just a de-clawed drow mage under the hood.

[Kaisenborg]

I say tweaking monster spell lists is fair game. Not every mage is identical, after all! The whole beauty of D&D is that you can do whatever you want with it, so if you want a mad scientist drow, there's nothing to stop you

Exactly, but that leads me to the initial question, how do i change it so that it doesn't 1shot my players but still keeps as much as possible, i lowerd
Lightningbolt 8D6 to a 4 or 5 D6
And cloud kill from 5D8 to 4 or 3D8

(Addition: I might just keep it and fudge the roll, but i want to do that as little as possible.)

And then he summons a good meatshield demon just to have some more HP

[SiCK_Boy]

I'm sorry I don't have a perfect suggestion as to what monster to use, and it's one thing to decide to swap spells from a monster's spell list (ex: replacing one Lvl 3 spell with a different Lvl 3 spell), but again, what you are trying to do makes little sense to me.

A lightning bolt deals 8d6 damage. That's it. It's a definition of lightning bolt. If your spell produce lightning damage, but only deals 4 or 5d6 damage, then it's not a lightning bolt. Invent a new spell and call it minor lightning bolt, or kaisenborg's shocking blast, or whatever other name you want, but you should make it clear this is not the same spell.

Your approach sounds as if you wanted your monsters to use greatswords that only deal 1d6 damage instead of 2d6. Well, those already exist: they are called shortsword. Why go through all the hoops to invent a weaker greatsword in that context?

Regarding your spells, maybe you should consider using lower-level spells cast with higher spell slots, instead of arbitrarily downgrading the strength of existing spells (or inventing new ones). Why not just go with a higher-level magic missile at this point, rather than a lower-level lightning bolt.

I know it may sound a bit pedantic, and as stated earlier, sure you can invent and adjust and change just about anything you want, but the reason why I think a DM should stick as much as possible to the rules as written (or to houserules agreed upon by everyone during a session 0) is because it impacts the stability of your world and allows your players to have some stable expectations about how things work in your world. If you start having lighting bolts dealing 4d6 damage, then how will you deal with your players trying to get access to this spell? And if you leave that spell as a 3rd level spell, how can you even justify that any competent spellcaster would pick it in the first place versus other options like fireball? I think you are opening a can of worm for little to no reason.

(Sorry if I'm making too big of a case with this; I've had experience with a DM who was doing something similar recently - having us fight nerfed version of high-CR monsters all the time - and it was a very frustrating experience for me as a player; what merit is there in beating an adult dragon if it doesn't have its full breath or legendary actions? why did he refuse to just make it a young dragon or wyrmling instead?... anyway, your situation is a bit different; I see what you are trying to do, and there is not a perfect/easy solution, but I still think you should be careful before messing with the construct of the world; inventing new stuff is much less problematic in that regard, but then you still want to care about unintended consequences)

[Xetheral]

Sure, you can always houserule and handwaive anything, but I think it`s a bad reflex to develop as a DM. You should turn to house rules when you want to fix something, rather than just for the fun of it, and none of the situations described seemed very problematic to me.

Could you elaborate as to why you consider it bad to introduce houserules "just for the fun of it"? I would think that should be exactly the metric the DM should use to decide whether or not to include a houserule: if the players will have more fun, use the houserule, otherwise don't.

For some players, possibly including you, houserules tend not to be fun. That's fine: that would properly weigh against including houserules in a game for such players. But I'm having a hard time imagining why you think fun is itself a bad metric?

[Quoxis]

Could you elaborate as to why you consider it bad to introduce houserules "just for the fun of it"? I would think that should be exactly the metric the DM should use to decide whether or not to include a houserule: if the players will have more fun, use the houserule, otherwise don't.

For some players, possibly including you, houserules tend not to be fun. That's fine: that would properly weigh against including houserules in a game for such players. But I'm having a hard time imagining why you think fun is itself a bad metric?

I think the thought behind it is simply that if you're too eager to pull houserules out of nowhere, you'll end up disbalancing the rules.
Sure it's cool to let a player have a +10 to their damage dealt because they aimed for the head, but the player who took a feat for it is now treated unfairly. Just a wild example, but you'll get the idea.

[coredump]

If your not sure about balance, just grab a different creature and use those stats. Grab the Mage from back of MM and make him a drow. (Just an example, I don't remember the Mage CR)

[Ninja_Prawn]

(Just an example, I don't remember the Mage CR)

To save anyone looking it up: the mage is CR 6, with fireball, ice storm and cone of cold in its locker. It would be too dangerous for the OP's party to face.

What SiCK_Boy says about the expectation of stability in the world is a fair point. Lightning bolt should be 8d6 whoever is casting it, because that's one of the basic assumptions of the game system. However, I would argue that players shouldn't have an expectation that every drow mage they encounter will be identical in loadout or overall strength. Changing stat blocks is one of the least destabilising things a DM can do, because all you're doing is making a new stat block. If I say "this bear looks unusually large and very angry," the players aren't going to be upset when it turns out to have different stats form a stock brown bear, for example.

[tieren]

What if instead of lowering the lethality of the drow mage you increase the survivability of the party?

Maybe before they get to him they find a scroll of Gust of Wind or Lightning Resistance or something, to give them a way to combat those threats at their level.

[Gorgo]

Taking some spell levels away from the drow mage seems like a perfectly valid choice to me. Like others have said, there are lots of drow out there who've learned some magic, and not all of them are the same level. You should adjust the encounter's CR if you do that though.

I'd advise against reducing the power of specific spells, though, unless there's a good way for the players to see that they're dealing with a weaker version of the spell. Players will use their character's experience with the first lightning bolt they see to judge how they react to future bolts, and having those bolts do a lot more damage because they aren't nerfed versions could cause problems.

[Kaisenborg]

I'm sorry I don't have a perfect suggestion as to what monster to use, and it's one thing to decide to swap spells from a monster's spell list (ex: replacing one Lvl 3 spell with a different Lvl 3 spell), but again, what you are trying to do makes little sense to me.

....

(Sorry if I'm making too big of a case with this; I've had experience with a DM who was doing something similar recently - having us fight nerfed version of high-CR monsters all the time - and it was a very frustrating experience for me as a player)

Dont apologize, this is exactly what i wanted from you guys, I really appreciate the feed back. Im so new to all this so sometimes i get stuck on things like this and maybe I'm to lazy to propely look it up but i feel like this is a good place to ask questions. I wont change the spells damage thanks to you guys. I will find a better way to fix this.


If your not sure about balance, just grab a different creature and use those stats. Grab the Mage from back of MM and make him a drow. (Just an example, I don't remember the Mage CR)

This is a great idea, and i was just to lazy or stupid to search the great wide web in hope of finding a good substitution. I have now found a few spellcasters with a lot lower CR that will suit mthe encounter just as good. (if its not in the Monter manual it doesnt exist "wink wink" :smallwink:)
One for example was Nezzanar The black spider from The lost mines of phandelver is a good fit for example.


What if instead of lowering the lethality of the drow mage you increase the survivability of the party?

Maybe before they get to him they find a scroll of Gust of Wind or Lightning Resistance or something, to give them a way to combat those threats at their level.

I thought about this too and it is also a very good idea. I just didnt know what would be could defecne, once agian i didnt put enough into it, probably due to my inexperience. (hopefully :smallwink:)



Taking some spell levels away from the drow mage seems like a perfectly valid choice to me. Like others have said, there are lots of drow out there who've learned some magic, and not all of them are the same level. You should adjust the encounter's CR if you do that though.

I'd advise against reducing the power of specific spells, though, unless there's a good way for the players to see that they're dealing with a weaker version of the spell. Players will use their character's experience with the first lightning bolt they see to judge how they react to future bolts, and having those bolts do a lot more damage because they aren't nerfed versions could cause problems.

Thanks again for great input, i will definetly not lower the spell dmg, maybe change the NPC, maybe change spells, or maybe give them some help in form of scrolls or such.


Thank you all for responding, I really apreciate this!