Mage’s Disjunction vs. Timeless Body (psionic) - Magic/Psionic Transparency

[mctizic]

Timeless Body states that - Your body ignores all harmful (and helpful) effects, beginning when you finish manifesting this power and ending at the end of your next turn. While timeless body is in effect, you are invulnerable to all attacks and powers.

Mage’s Disjunction states - All magical effects and magic items within the radius of the spell, except for those that you carry or touch, are disjoined. That is, spells and spell-like effects are separated into their individual components (ending the effect as a dispel magic spell does), and each permanent magic item must make a successful Will save or be turned into a normal item. An item in a creature’s possession uses its own Will save bonus or its possessor’s Will save bonus, whichever is higher.

We are using Magic/Psionic Transparency

The argument is that Disjunction should dispel Timeless Body.

I'm thinking sense it states all attacks and all powers then Disjunction wouldn't work.

Which one is correct?

[Slithery D]

Disjunction works. The spell is not your body, it's a separate thing protecting your body. Dispel Magic and Disjunction are the (only) weaknesses of Timeless Body.

[Celestia]

I agree with Slithery. Disjunction goes off. However, I would say that every other active effect and magic item on your person is safe. Even if Disjunction successfully dispels Timeless Body, the effect still cannot target the rest because it's already happened. It's an instantaneous effect, not a continuous pulse.

[Anxe]

While not RAW I would treat the Timeless Body like an Antimagic Field for how disjunction interacts with it. Using a 9th level power like that should protect against other 9th level powers for the most part.

[Hackulator]

Disjunction works. The spell is not your body, it's a separate thing protecting your body. Dispel Magic and Disjunction are the (only) weaknesses of Timeless Body.

I disagree. "While timeless body is in effect, you are invulnerable to all powers." Not immune, which some things get around, but invulnerable, a term not really used anywhere else. If you are invulnerable (not vulnerable) to Disjunction, it doesn't affect you.

[icefractal]

I'm inclined to agree with Disjunction working, I see it pretty much the same as Leyline of Sanctity (you have Hexproof, but the leyline doesn't).

However, things get less clear if you have an item providing Timeless Body. Items generally are treated as part of "you", so in that case I think it would beat Disjunction. This would be an extremely expensive custom item though, so not something that'll come up often.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

"Your body ignores all harmful (and helpful) effects, beginning when you finish manifesting this power and ending at the end of your next turn. While timeless body is in effect, you are invulnerable to all attacks and powers."

"Your body ignores all harmful (and helpful) effects..." can be taken to mean that it only protects your person, not your items or any magical effects on your character. However, "While timeless body is in effect, you are invulnerable to all attacks and powers," can be taken to mean that nothing can affect your character while it's in effect, including your attended items and active spells/powers.

Dispel Magic used as a targeted dispel would not work if targeted at the character who has Timeless Body in effect, but it could work if targeted at Timeless Body itself, since it's able to target a specific spell. You would have needed to make a Psicraft check or equivalent to be aware of the Timeless Body in order to target it. Dispel Magic used as an area dispel would not work against Timeless Body, because it affects creatures within the area or ongoing spell effects whose point of origin is in the area, Timeless Body is Target: Self so there's no point of origin. Thus the character with Timeless Body is invulnerable to the area dispel and unaffected, and none of the spells or powers on him can be dispelled by it.

Disjunction says, "That is, spells and spell-like effects are separated into their individual components (ending the effect as a dispel magic spell does)," and its area says, "All magical effects and magic items within a 40-ft.-radius burst." I would rule that it acts as though targeted at every individual magical effect in the area, rather than affecting creatures in the area like the area version of dispel magic. Thus I'll agree that it would remove Timeless Body as well as any other spell or power, and also affect items on the character with Timeless Body.

An argument could be made for the character automatically succeeding on every Will save to keep his items magical, since he's invulnerable to the spell. It affects all spells and items simultaneously, so he's still under the effect of Timeless Body when he would make the saves for his items.

[Hackulator]

"Your body ignores all harmful (and helpful) effects, beginning when you finish manifesting this power and ending at the end of your next turn. While timeless body is in effect, you are invulnerable to all attacks and powers."

"Your body ignores all harmful (and helpful) effects..." can be taken to mean that it only protects your person, not your items or any magical effects on your character. However, "While timeless body is in effect, you are invulnerable to all attacks and powers," can be taken to mean that nothing can affect your character while it's in effect, including your attended items and active spells/powers.

Dispel Magic used as a targeted dispel would not work if targeted at the character who has Timeless Body in effect, but it could work if targeted at Timeless Body itself, since it's able to target a specific spell. You would have needed to make a Psicraft check or equivalent to be aware of the Timeless Body in order to target it. Dispel Magic used as an area dispel would not work against Timeless Body, because it affects creatures within the area or ongoing spell effects whose point of origin is in the area, Timeless Body is Target: Self so there's no point of origin. Thus the character with Timeless Body is invulnerable to the area dispel and unaffected, and none of the spells or powers on him can be dispelled by it.

Disjunction says, "That is, spells and spell-like effects are separated into their individual components (ending the effect as a dispel magic spell does)," and its area says, "All magical effects and magic items within a 40-ft.-radius burst." I would rule that it acts as though targeted at every individual magical effect in the area, rather than affecting creatures in the area like the area version of dispel magic. Thus I'll agree that it would remove Timeless Body as well as any other spell or power, and also affect items on the character with Timeless Body.

An argument could be made for the character automatically succeeding on every Will save to keep his items magical, since he's invulnerable to the spell. It affects all spells and items simultaneously, so he's still under the effect of Timeless Body when he would make the saves for his items.

I'll be honest, I forgot you could target a single spell with dispel magic in addition to directly targeting a person or an area. I would agree that should work, as it provides a situation where there is still some meaning to being invulnerable to Dispel Magic (targeted and area don't work), yet dispel magic can defeat the spell.

Similarly I can maybe agree with your interpretation of Disjunction with the automatically saving vs items being destroyed. Once again, this provides the statement "you are invulnerable to Disjunction" some meaning.

[Slithery D]

I think Dispel works in all versions for the same reason it doesn't check spell resistance. Spells are separate from the creature and don't benefit from SR or timeless body.

[mctizic]

Timeless Body states that - Your body ignores all harmful (and helpful) effects, beginning when you finish manifesting this power and ending at the end of your next turn. While timeless body is in effect, you are invulnerable to all attacks and powers.

Mage’s Disjunction states - All magical effects and magic items within the radius of the spell, except for those that you carry or touch, are disjoined. That is, spells and spell-like effects are separated into their individual components (ending the effect as a dispel magic spell does), and each permanent magic item must make a successful Will save or be turned into a normal item. An item in a creature’s possession uses its own Will save bonus or its possessor’s Will save bonus, whichever is higher.

We are using Magic/Psionic Transparency

The argument is that Disjunction should dispel Timeless Body.

I'm thinking sense it states all attacks and all powers then Disjunction wouldn't work.

Which one is correct?


Invulnerable is defined as impervious, insusceptible, immune, etc.

Which means that you are immune to ALL powers / magic.

by RAW Disjunction and Dispel are both spells

[Slithery D]

Invulnerable is defined as impervious, insusceptible, immune, etc.

Which means that you are immune to ALL powers / magic.

by RAW Disjunction and Dispel are both spells

The issue is whether spells on your body are are part of your body. The inability of spell resistance to stop them suggests no. As does game balance and sanity.