How a Neutral Good character could justify betraying the party?

[atemu1234]

So suppose Character A is neutral good. And not just neutral good, but the kind of good that nuns look at and go 'damn, that's neutral good right there'. The kind of neutral good that fights for justice and saves puppies and rescues children from burning buildings on their off days.

Suppose the party is mostly neutral, and tends to behave as such. How would a neutral good character like the above justify betraying them and helping the big bad, someone who he knows is working towards the destruction of the multiverse by unleashing an Elder Evil?

No, I'm not an ******* trying to make a character betray the party to spite them. I'm working with the DM, I'm going to be coDMing from here on in, and we needed some kind of plot twist to make my character go 'bad'

[Celestia]

The same way anyone betrays anything, really: offer something they care about more. Does this NG character have a family? Big Bad finds out and threatens them. Does NG have an ultimate goal of some sort? Big Bad offers the means to complete that goal. Etc.

[gooddragon1]

The weakness of neutral good is in thinking that they know what is best (the greater good) in almost an ends justify the means approach. They see a means of doing a tremendous amount of good for a temporary betrayal that surely the party should understand... right?

The law is sometimes wrong, but who determines what is right? Me? What if I'm wrong and I don't know it? Took a lawful good person to show me that neutral good does have a weakness.

[ATHATH]

Step 1: Receive a Necrotic Cyst spell.
Step 2: Receive a Necrotic Domination spell.
Step 3: Be mind-controlled into betraying the party.
Step 4: ???
Step 5: Profit!

[atemu1234]

Step 1: Receive a Necrotic Cyst spell.
Step 2: Receive a Necrotic Domination spell.
Step 3: Be mind-controlled into betraying the party.
Step 4: ???
Step 5: Profit!

Eh, Mind Control seems kind of... cheap, IDK. I'd prefer to try to justify this character who's whole concept is 'the paragon' falling in line with a villain. Personal appeal, I'd suppose.

[gooddragon1]

Eh, Mind Control seems kind of... cheap, IDK. I'd prefer to try to justify this character who's whole concept is 'the paragon' falling in line with a villain. Personal appeal, I'd suppose.

If you've seen captain america civil war that could give an idea. Not sure how easily they would work with a villain except under duress as mentioned above or not recognizing the villain as such.

[Anymage]

The problem is that, as mentioned above, this would really only happen under duress. Blackmail just makes it likely that the character tries to search out a third option. So your only practical choices are that the exemplar of goodness is deceived, or that he's mind controlled. Also keep in mind that if the neutral good character wants to do something for "the greater good", they're more likely to try and convince the rest of the party to join them than they are to stick a knife in anyone's back.

The real question is what you expect your role as a player to be as the campaign progresses. Straight up retirement can work without any betrayal at all. It also allows you to play him again if you want to be more player focused. Betrayal forced through some external means, be it an enemy spellcaster's domination or a magical alignment change like being turned into a vampire, means that the players will want to see their ex friend saved and/or destroyed. (Depending on player outlook and just how plans went down.) Discuss the plot and how you want your former character's story to pan out before deciding which way to go.

[Geddy2112]

A trope of neutral good is being naive; they could be blissfully unaware they are knowingly helping the bad guys, and even convinced they must go do this thing to do the right thing(although I don't think your character is this). They might see it as an in to infiltrate the BBEG group and take them down from within. A "greater good" as mentioned might convince them to work for the bad guys. Maybe they are not under mind control but are under some kind of indirect coercion.

You could always have them fall from grace. Maybe they see one too many bad things, and in a world so evil, they see the only good thing to do is to end it swiftly. Maybe they break, lose hope, or something else jades them a bit too much. Maybe the BBEG opes their eyes to the true and harsh nature of the world.

[gooddragon1]

A trope of neutral good is being naive; they could be blissfully unaware they are knowingly helping the bad guys, and even convinced they must go do this thing to do the right thing(although I don't think your character is this). They might see it as an in to infiltrate the BBEG group and take them down from within. A "greater good" as mentioned might convince them to work for the bad guys. Maybe they are not under mind control but are under some kind of indirect coercion.

You could always have them fall from grace. Maybe they see one too many bad things, and in a world so evil, they see the only good thing to do is to end it swiftly. Maybe they break, lose hope, or something else jades them a bit too much. Maybe the BBEG opes their eyes to the true and harsh nature of the world.

A while ago my character fought with and against other good aligned characters in a civil war between elves and humans. No one was right necessarily, but we had different views on who was more right.

[Hackulator]

If it's DM fiat plot twist, just have him have been evil the whole time and faking it so that he could get close to the party to betray them.

[arkangel111]

Spoiler alert for mistborn by brandon sanderson ahead. (On phone sorry no tag)


In mistborn the evil overlord king was actually just trying to save the world from a destructive Armageddon type evil. I'd argue he was actually NG. The main plotline shifted dramatically once they realized their mistake.

[Coidzor]

Hmm. Something needs to be altered in the formula or else the math just isn't going to add up and will look very contrived.

[Footman]

It is kinda hard to find a Reason to betray the Party, if you just give us the Alaginment.
What is this Characters Goal? What Personality has he? What are his Weaknesses? What are his Motivations for Adventuring?

Generelly, there are a few options:
The Villian Takes Multiple Hostages, (lets say the Village where your Character was Born), and establishes a Mind Link with your Character. So he always sees what is going on, and can prepare for the Party, to let his Minions, lay ambush, after ambush. Of course his Minions, will oddly leave you alone at Times, to give the Party some suspicions. Every time your Character does something that displeases the Villian, he will kill one of the Villagers, and your Character will have to listen to their
Death screams over the Mind Link.

Second Option:
The Villian has a Familiar or a Polymorphed Minion, as a small animal that somtimes comes to touch you Character with the Mind Link Spell. In the Mindlink he shows up as a Ghost that was "Murdered" by the other Party Members.That "Ghost" spins him a sob Story annd the Villian plants fake Evidence for thier crimes. I take it the Characters will also have Downtime, and will not always be together. Now the Villian will have new "Ghosts" showing up, who claim to have been murdered by his Party.

The Villian will of course pick a Party Member, that has no Alibi as the "Murderer", and will plant evidance again. Also the Villian will also really kill a Person in every Town, so that it looks to your Character like all of your Party members have a hidden murderous side.

In a dramatically apropriate Moment, (standing before a powerfull Mcguffin after killing the Dungeon Boss.), there will be something like a Leaver on the outside with the Stone Door not being openable on the inside. Right at this moment, your Character will betray them, to Rot forever in the Dungeon, because of all the Murders they comitted. Of course he will also give them a Speech about Justice, and goodnes and stuff like that.

[Zanos]

The weakness of neutral good is in thinking that they know what is best (the greater good) in almost an ends justify the means approach. They see a means of doing a tremendous amount of good for a temporary betrayal that surely the party should understand... right?

The law is sometimes wrong, but who determines what is right? Me? What if I'm wrong and I don't know it? Took a lawful good person to show me that neutral good does have a weakness.
Ends justifying the means while shouting about the greater good is Neutral Evil, and is literally the opposite of Neutral Good.

I think the best way for this to happen is to have the character do something good. So the Elder Evil is sealed in the body of an innocent person, killing them would prevent it from ever resurrecting, and of course the NG party member can't let the party just kill the innocent person because the ends don't justify the means. Cliche; I'll assume you and your DM can come up with something more original.

[SuperPanda]

1. Assuming that the end goal is for this PC to become a recurring antagonist without mind-control/changing alignments and
2. Assuming that the twist must happen...

The only route I see is going Greek, more specifically the recurring theme in Greek tragedies where trying to prevent a prophecy in turn causes it.

What I'd do is work out something that the NG PC cares about more deeply than the other PCs - a family member, a child, a lover, a town - something deeply personal.

At the same time have an antagonist deliver one of the PCs (not the NG) one about a member of the party betraying the others - delivering the ultimate wound to a trusted friend.

Then watch:
A) the PC who gets the prophecy does nothing - continue as before until it is time to set up the betrayal.
B) the PC who gets the prophecy tells everyone. - have the NG character take pains to avoid being the one to betray the others - offer to quit the party rather than risk betraying the others. Make it clear the NG character totally buys the prophecy and is afraid of being the one to betray the others. (B is preferable).
C) The PC who gets the prophecy starts acting off, sets everyone on edge.

Work the with DM to create a no-win scenario in which the other PCs kill/destroy that thing the NG PC cares most deeply about. After going out of his away to make sure he didn't betray the others - he winds up feeling betrayed by them. He ends the session having left the party devestated - saying he needs time alone.

Later on have return as the big bad body-guard for a character like Iago (the one from Shakespeare's Othello - not the annoying bird. A villain has twisted his pain and loss into a thirst for vengeance (which he thinks is Justice).

The goal here is to set up a string of events in which the PCs have an antagonist that they want to "Save" but who is trying to kill them. Rather than a "Oh, I hate that guy now!" they have an opponent they aren't as ready to go "all out" against and a villain behind that opponent who is going to use that to its fullest.

What I'd do -

Once the PCs reveal the prophecy - try to egg the bard into commenting on how this stuff usually plays out - and get everyone to reveal their most personal secrets. Establish that the NG PC has a loved one - a sibling or fiance - that means more than the world to them. Get others to reveal similar and as DM write down the answers.

The day before the twist, have the NG PC get a letter from their loved one saying they are in a near-bye-town (no reason stated) and that there are some (level appropriate bandit/monsters) near-bye. Have NG-PC encourage the players to go help (They probably will). (If they don't - receive word the loved one was killed and job done - they likely won't choose that).

Have the PCs attacked as they enter the down - watch for any use of Fire or Lightning spells, also have a timer going which the DM expects to run shortly after combat. If any fire or lightning spells are used have a house within the area of effect blow up - if not have a NPC which was just killed by a player get a dramatic dying-breath explanation that there is a black-powder bomb hidden with the hostages, and only this NPC had the spell to disarm it in time... - then blow it up X rounds after that character dies).

On the day of - have the NG PC saying he knows it wasn't their (the other PCs) fault but he just needs to be alone - he can't travel with them for a while - he needs to go grieve. Have him say that he was so afraid the prophecy was about him hurting the others he never considered it might have been about hurting himself...

If there is a PC who can be somehow convinced to kill the individual involved - even by accident - it would work better, but few of my players are that reliably unreliable.

[Gullintanni]

If betrayal means you want the NG character to outright attack the PCs, then two conditions would have to be satisfied:

1. The PCs are either a willing or unwitting aide to some great force for harm in the world; and,

2. The PCs can not be dissuaded from their current course of action except by forceful intervention.

Neutral Good cares neither for Law or Chaos, only that the best possible outcome is achieved for the most number of people with as little violence as is possible.

Neutral Good and Neutral Evil may both talk about their version of the greater good, but Neutral Good actually cares about those who get hurt along the way.

[Gildedragon]

As mentioned above: we need more info on the character, party, and the elder evil/expected twist.

But here's a few ideas:
1) character becomes convinced that the party is evil, or their actions are furthering evil. Possibly stirring another Elder Evil
2) character develops some disillusionment in the fight against Evil: suffering never ends, the wicked get rewarded regardless, and as long as the Heroes get theirs, they don't care; immanentizing the eschateon will reward the Good (sending them to a paradise), Punish the Evil (sending them to a Lower Realm), and give the neutral chance to try themselves and get their rightful reward.
3) waking the elder e is actually the least bad option.