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Zendy
2017-08-06, 08:09 AM
Hello, first of all, big fan of the comic here, decided to finally join the forums.

I have always loved D&D, I bought he books and read all the lore and rules for fun since I had no one to play with.

I'm a big fan of fantasy and some of my friends love the stuff I write, they decided to make a D&D group and since they love my stories elected me as the DM, I was overjoyed until I realized how much work that is.

So I have the story basically planed, the plot hooks prepared, It's going to be a semi-open world sandbox game, I have the main dungeons mapped and everything ready.

The problem is that I don't know how to start.

What is the best edition for less rules and dice (I must confess for someone who hates all things math all those numbers and dice rolling calculations are quite scary) and more role-play and combat?
We have a huge game shop near where I live and willing to spend as how much money is necessary. We also have an old book store with many older editions for sale.

Please help me, any tip or advice on how to be a good DM are welcomed.

Waddacku
2017-08-06, 08:30 AM
Give some version of Basic a try? I usually hear Rules Cyclopedia lauded as one of the absolute best made versions of D&D.

Guizonde
2017-08-06, 09:04 AM
firstly, congratulations on getting a group, and you have my sympathies for being the first time dm. i take it you've never seen someone dm live? never played a game?

if that's the case, here are a couple of tips (all are to be applied to 3.5 and pf, since i never played other editions):

-take notes about everything. get yourself a dm screen to hide said notes, and some dm screens have cheat-sheets printed on them to help you remember calculations (spells per day, ability modifiers, those things).
-copy your players' character sheets, at the very least hp, bab, ac, class, and if applicable spell slots.
-don't expect to be perfect first time every time. being a dm is a very humbling experience, and you'll screw up more than the players at first. that you've read the books is great. remembering them under fire is a bit more challenging. don't worry, you'll get better and better at it, it's all a matter of practice.
-fun comes before anything else. if someone isn't having fun, change it. you're not playing math, you're playing with friends.
-dm vs players? nope, never. dm with players? bingo.
-battlemaps and miniatures can be useful, but can just as well be improvised. don't worry if you're lacking something. internet's got most dnd/pf books in digital format, battlemaps can be drawn on loose-leaf. all you really need is paper, pencils (never pen), and a set of dice (d20, 2d10, d12, d8, d6, d4)
-never be afraid to interrupt a game at first to check a mechanic, this you should learn to drop, but as a newbie, it's normal to forget mechanics, and don't worry about breaking the flow of the game. the only reason more veteran players homerule things off the cuff is because we know enough about the system to not break it.
-listen to the players, you may be the dm, and your word is law, if a player has a problem, solve that problem.

i'm sure i forgot some key pointers, but i hope this helps. regarding editions, well, all i know is 3.x/pf. it's... overwhelming to a newbie. sooner or later, i recommend you play it, since it's the archetypal rules-heavy rp system, but as a first time, why not dnd5? i hear good things about the system, and seeing the character sheet, seems more legible to a newbie.

never forget: have fun, and enjoy!

Zendy
2017-08-06, 09:19 AM
firstly, congratulations on getting a group, and you have my sympathies for being the first time dm. I take it you've never seen someone dm live? never played a game?

I watched some episodes of Twits And Crits and Critical Role for all that matters.

Thanks for the tips.

Is pathfinder that much harder? I really liked the witch class.

JAL_1138
2017-08-06, 09:48 AM
5e is probably the most newbie-friendly version. We get a lot of first-time players in League and they usually catch on pretty quick once they figure out which dice are which—that often gives people more trouble than the rules do, at level 1.

I'd suggest picking up the 5e Starter Set. The starter set comes with a really solid introductory module called Lost Mine of Phandelver that's pretty good, balancing exploration, social encounters, and combat reasonably well, with some good maps and lots for the characters to do.

The Starter Set doesn't have any character-creation or encounter-building rules though (it comes with pregens for characters and the encounters are already written up in the module), but the rules booklet with it is decent other than that to help explain the game mechanics; there's a "basic rules" .pdf set available free from WotC that has limited character-creation rules for players and encounter rules for DMs as well to go beyond what's in the module.

Zendy
2017-08-06, 10:21 AM
I think my biggest problem is:

How do I know what to roll, when to roll, what dice is used for what?

For example a player wants to use stealth how do I roll for that?

Or a player wants to resist a poisoned trap.

PhoenixPhyre
2017-08-06, 10:34 AM
I think my biggest problem is:

How do I know what to roll, when to roll, what dice is used for what?

For example a player wants to use stealth how do I roll for that?

Or a player wants to resist a poisoned trap.

For D&D, the default for 3e and beyond is always a d20 +some number.

So stealth is d20+the stealth skill (which varies by edition). A trap will generally tell you what to add to the roll. But the dice is always a d20.

I second the recommendation to play 5th edition. I've used it with new folks and it's easy to pick up. The basic rules and the intro adventure are both good.

Faily
2017-08-06, 10:42 AM
I haven't tried 5e, but I find Pathfinder to be very good for just how accessible it is to players and GMs alike with most of the rules available online, as well as various smartphone-apps made for the game. So I'd give a vote for that. Especially since there are many interesting published adventures that could help you get started somewhere. :smallsmile:


As for rolling dice (in Pathfinder, at least):

Stealth (or other similar Skill-checks)
GM: In the next hallway, you notice that there is one guard keeping watch.
Player: I'd rather not fight him, could I sneak past him?
GM: Sure. Roll your Stealth skill (Skill ranks + Dexterity + the total of the die). The guard will oppose with his Perception skill to notice you.
Player & GM: *both rolls a d20 to check for results, the highest total wins*

Resisting poison (and other things)
GM: In your carelessness, you accidentally set off the trap in the chest and a poisoned needle pricks you. Your body tries to fight it, roll a Fortitude save (Fortitude base + Constitution + the d20).
Player: *rolls a d20. If the total of the roll is equal to or greater than the Difficulty of the Poison (all poisons have their Difficulty Challenge listed), then it is a success*

Most Core rulebooks, regardless of system or edition, tend to have example play and how to use the different abilities like Saving Throws, Attacks, and Skill checks. So it takes a bit of reading if you're all learning this together without anyone who is already familiar with a system.

Guizonde
2017-08-06, 10:43 AM
I watched some episodes of Twits And Crits and Critical Role for all that matters.

Thanks for the tips.

Is pathfinder that much harder? I really liked the witch class.

compared to say... warhammer fantasy roleplay 2nd edition or dark heresy, without questions. this goes for any rules heavy system (looking at you, gurps). that said, the book is very well written, and links to the relevant pages adequately. it's still one hell of a doorstopper that can be quite intimidating, and that's one of my main beefs. i played 3.5 for years without really getting into the crunch of the game. i stopped in 2012 iirc, delved into my homebrew based on dark heresy and whfrp, and earlier this year went into full pathfinder with two who mastered the system, two newbies, and one who played dnd5e. it was an unpleasant learning curve in that i'd stopped taking notes and hitting splatbooks, so spending 4 hours relearning the rules and building an adequate character was slow and bothersome for me.

in 3.5, i played paladin, a cleric that prestiged into radiant servant of pelor, and a couple of other classes to a much lesser extent. the bookkeeping for spells was a major turn off for me. currently, in pf, i'm playing inquisitor, and it feels really nice. kind of like playing a hybrid between paladin and rogue. it's got only half-casting, and spontaneous casting at that, so again, less bookkeeping. pf is much more user-friendly than 3.5, even for newbies (i may know how to play, i'm a newbie too).

this is why my first tip was to take notes. if you don't you'll lose yourself in the details and the book-keeping. it's a lot to take in for a moderately knowledgeable player, let alone a newbie.

goto124
2017-08-06, 11:16 AM
Player: I'd rather not fight him, could I sneak past him?

No first-timer is ever going to say that!

Though, come to think of it, solutions involving stealth or avoiding combat may not come easily to first-timers, especially if they have a CRPG background. I'll leave it to someone else to come up with ways to deal with that.

Herobizkit
2017-08-15, 04:25 AM
If you want to see the 5e 'core' rules for free, look no further than the Wizards' website:

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/basicrules

Both the Basic PHB (4 races, 4 classes, some spells) and the Basic DMG (all you really need) are available as PDF links at the bottom of the article. As the DM heir apparent, you'll want to familiarize yourself with both. ^_^

SirBellias
2017-08-16, 03:23 PM
I'm only familiar with 3.5 to 5e for D&D, and of those 5e is easiest to learn and teach for me.

Pathfinder is a much more organized and cohesive 3.5, but still is more complicated (and has a higher number range) than 5e. At least in my experience.

Assess what happens during the session afterwards. Think of what could have been better and what could have been ignored in planning. The less you plan ahead of time, the more time you have for playing the game (and anything else you like to do), so learning to optimize your planning is a must.

Nifft
2017-08-16, 03:36 PM
Basic D&D can be great, and the modern clones are even readable. I've had a good experience with Dark Dungeons (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/177410/), which is free (but you can pay what you want).

If you want to play an official D&D game, then I'd recommend 5e, which is also very clearly written. The rules for Stealth are poorly defined, but most of the rest of the game is very quick to pick up and easy for new people to understand.


I would NOT recommend Pathfinder nor 3.5e, even though I personally enjoy playing that edition. It's VERY complex and even creating characters is a confusing maze of trap choices. Also, running the game takes a lot of work -- monsters are very customizable, but customization takes time and you also need to be alert for traps.

Thrudd
2017-08-16, 03:36 PM
You'll learn everything you need to know about how the game works in the rule book of whatever game you decide to get.

The easiest thing for everyone to start with will probably either be the current (5th edition) starter set, or the very old basic set. Both limit the number of choices for character types so it is fast and easy for everyone to get into. I would recommend starting this way with a couple test adventures, like the basic one included in the starter set, rather than a big complex story that you've planned out.

Get everyone used to the way these games work first (including you), let everyone try different types of characters a couple times. Then move on to a more complex version of the rules if you want, like the full set of 5e books or the full rules cyclopedia or pathfinder or AD&D, in which the players can create their more detailed and unique characters.

Keep your big amazing story world ready to be developed according to whatever edition you eventually decide to use. There will be big changes to how you plan things depending on what edition of the game you choose.

daniel_ream
2017-08-18, 05:05 AM
Another vote for B/X, or any of its retroclones, such as Adventurer Conqueror King or Dark Dungeons. Fast and easy to get started with, and if you choose to move to a different edition later, you won;t need to learn new concepts. 5E is probably a close second. Avoid 3.5 or Pathfinder like the plague, no matter what anyone tells you, if complexity is an issue for you.


I'm a big fan of fantasy and some of my friends love the stuff I write, they decided to make a D&D group and since they love my stories elected me as the DM, I was overjoyed until I realized how much work that is.

Keep in mind that stories and RPGs are very, very different things, especially if you are playing D&D. Don't make the mistake of thinking that you can plot your D&D sessions the way you plot your writing.

Grod_The_Giant
2017-08-22, 06:27 AM
I'll agree with those suggesting 5e-- it's much more approachable than 3.5 or Pathfinder (functionally identical), and much more forgiving (and internally consistent, and more in keeping with the expected modern philosophies) than old-school editions. It's also easier to find players and support for. The rules are fairly simple-- d20+ability score+maybe proficiency-- and lean heavily on DM rulings, rather than memorized details.

PhoenixPhyre
2017-08-22, 06:51 AM
I'll agree with those suggesting 5e-- it's much more approachable than 3.5 or Pathfinder (functionally identical), and much more forgiving (and internally consistent, and more in keeping with the expected modern philosophies) than old-school editions. It's also easier to find players and support for. The rules are fairly simple-- d20+ability score+maybe proficiency-- and lean heavily on DM rulings, rather than memorized details.

And since most individual abilities are self-sufficient (you don't need to know the other pieces to use this ability), each player only really needs to know the basic rules and his or her individual abilities. There aren't a lot of interacting subsystems that you have to keep in mind. Everything does what it says.



DM describes a scene.
Player says what his character does.
DM and player resolve action, possibly rolling dice. 90% of the time, that's a d20 + ability modifier + possibly proficiency.
DM narrates changes to scene.
GOTO 1.


Many, if not most, actions just happen without rolling dice or worrying about modifiers. This is a big change from some earlier editions. DMs can add as much or as little to step 3 as they want--some actions (attacks, spells, etc) have default resolution mechanics. Others don't.

I find that this makes for an easy-to-learn, hard(er)-to-master system that allows for a wide variety of skill levels to coexist and much variation. Some don't like this, others do. I certainly do.

Knaight
2017-08-22, 10:13 AM
What is the best edition for less rules and dice (I must confess for someone who hates all things math all those numbers and dice rolling calculations are quite scary) and more role-play and combat?
We have a huge game shop near where I live and willing to spend as how much money is necessary. We also have an old book store with many older editions for sale.

If you're commited to D&D specifically, ignore this. However: There are RPGs that aren't D&D that you might not be aware of, some of which cover the same niche. Many of these are much better suited for someone who hates all things math than D&D, which has editions that range from rules heavy to extremely rules heavy and a fan base that tends to love the math. Obvious candidates that are reasonably close in feel include Warrior, Rogue, and Mage; d6 Fantasy, and any number of systems that are basically D&D light (e.g. Microlight 20).

2D8HP
2017-08-22, 11:20 AM
Hello, first of all, big fan of the comic here, decided to finally join the forums.

I have always loved D&D, I bought he books and read all the lore and rules for fun since I had no one to play with.....


FWIW, OoTS is loosely based on the 3.5 edition of D&D, and last I checked reprints of those rules are still available, plus Pathfinder is mostly based on 3.5, and should be real easy to find.


What is the best edition for less rules and dice (I must confess for someone who hates all things math all those numbers and dice rolling calculations are quite scary) and more role-play and combat?
We have a huge game shop near where I live and willing to spend as how much money is necessary. We also have an old book store with many older editions for sale.
.


The least rules were the 1977 "Bluebook Basic" rules by Holmes in, a wonderful and complete game in just 48 pages.

I went '77 "Basic D&D" -> oD&D (plus "All the World's Monster's, and Arduin) -> 1e AD&D -> other RPG's -> 5e D&D, and I only glanced at 2e through 4e, but 2e looks sweet, and I think it would be fun

If someone wants to easily learn TSR D&D, probably the easiest way would be to pick up '91 "Basic" or '94 "Classic" (same thing TSR just slapped a different cover on '91 Basic, and called in "Classic Dungeons & Dragons" in '94

Anything marked "Advanced" Dungeons & Dragons, you probably mostly just want the "lore"/"fluff", as it's more complex than "Basic"/"Classic", with 2e AD&D being a little easier (maybe easier than 3.5).


Because I just can't resist bloviating, I'm going to point out that the '91 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons_Game_(1991_boxed_set)) rules were once known as "Fifth edition", see:

here (http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/17171).

It went:


1974: Arneson/Gygax "Original" (Brown box/White box)

1977: Holmes "Basic" (Bluebook)

1981: Moldvay/Cook "Basic" (B/X)

1983: Mentzer "Basic" (Red box)

1991: Brown/Denning "New Easy to Master" (Black box) - 1994: "Classic" (same as '91, just a different cover).

Out of all of those, the '91/'94 rules really are "Easy to Master" as the editing/English is better, but my favorite is the complete game in just 48 pages Holmes authored 1977 version, which because it was my first FRP, I can't be objective about.

I enjoy the thought of calling OD&D/Holmes 1e, Moldvay 2e, Mentzer 3e, The Rules Cyclopedia 4e, ignoring AD&D and 3e/3.5/4e WotC D&D, and then came Mearls 5e.

But yeah the biggest change I know was between TSR AD&I/D&D and WotC "3e" (was 4e a big change?).


If anyone wonders:

The first Dungeons & Dragons box was in 1974.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_DSs2bX13hVc/SfSTvUzCu4I/AAAAAAAAA9A/9bUyti9YmUk/s320/box1st.jpg

The first Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Player's Handbook was in 1978.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/09/PlayersHandbook8Cover.jpg

As far as "complete" rules, the Dungeons & Dragons Rules Cyclopedia were published in 1991.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51jfxcIacTL._AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65_.jpg

The Classic Dungeons & Dragons Game: Rules and Adventures Book, (only was for levels one to five) was published in 1994.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51zg8bGF4gL._SL500_.jpg

And in 2014 was 5e Dungeons & Dragons

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Ykm93n8ML._SY400_.jpg


The Holmes Basic "bluebook" rules were reprinted in '99 as part of the 25 "Silver Anniversary" Set.

Holmes is... not AD&D, or B/X or OD&D, it's sort of all of them and none of them... and it was AWESOME!

If someone wants to easily learn TSR D&D, probably the easiest way would be to pick up '91 "Basic" or '94 "Classic" (same thing), because those are the most clearly written, but if you want to be COOL, then get Holmes, "Basic", OD&D, and AD&D all within 2 years of each other. That's what I did!
:cool:

Also 1.5 was LAME! I'm still boycotting it!
:annoyed:

By "1.5" I mean 1985's Unearthed Arcana, if you decide to use it, be prepared to do some serious house-ruling.

5e D&D is a little bit more complex than old "Basic"/"Classic", but not as complex as AD&D/3e/3.5 (I know so little of 4e that I hesitate to guess), and player characters are more likely to survive. It's plenty fun and you can get lots of the rules free:

Basic Rules for WotC 5e Dungeons & Dragons (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/basicrules)

If you want to same old D&D, there's free "retroclones", one that's really close to '81 "Basic" is:

Labyrinth Lord (http://goblinoidgames.com/index.php/downloads/)



I'm guessing that you will enjoy acting out "NPC'" (the imaginary character that your player's character interact with) dialogue, and "worldbuilding" (making up the setting), but will find rules adjudication a bit of a headache at first, so here's simplified system. to use in the beginning:


1) DM describes a scene.
2) Player says an action that their PC attempts.
3) DM decides if the PC has no chance of success, no chance of failure, or a partial chance of success.
4) If a partial chance of success, GM makes up on the spot a percentage chance of success.
5) Player rolls D100 (two 0-9 twenty-siders once upon a time, now two "d10's").
6) If the player rolls under the made up percentage number their PC succeeds in attempting the task, if over the PC fails.
7) DM narrates the immediate consequences until it's time to again ask, "what do you do".
8) Repeat.


Alternatively, make up a number for the players to roll over on a single "d20".

If you think that it should be an automatic chance of success or failure, don't have them roll, just narrate, the dice are used for suspense, if you decide that in-game events happen differently than what the dice indicate, you lose future suspence.

You're playing a game for fun, so use the rules that are fun for you and your players.

KarlMarx
2017-08-22, 01:01 PM
I'd say the best edition to use probably depends on your group's overall experience with other RPGs (if any) and willingness to foray into math.

5e has no real holes in it's setup, and can easily be picked up relatively quickly. If your group is totally inexperienced with RPGs, this is the edition to start with--it has the flexibility to build a lot of character concepts, without having anything in core that's egregiously broken or hard to use. Furthermore, it doesn't take very long to comfortably interact with the crunch of the system, and advantage/disadvantage mechanics simplify math relative to other editions.

If your group is a little more experienced or dedicated, 3.5e offers a lot more flexibility and opportunities to develop almost any character concept. It also has a bunch of overpowered classes or mechanics, and one min-maxer in the party can easily steal the rest of the player's thunder. If, however, your players are conscientious enough avoid this, it can definitely be a blast, with opportunities to go anywhere. Unfortunately, it tends to be a little harder to understand than 5e, as well as much crunchier.

4e...is interesting. If your group detests math with a vengeance, this edition probably has the simplest mechanical rulesets to use. All PCs are at least decent at all skills by high levels thanks to the mechanics, and skill challenges provide an interesting option for systemized, noncombat encounters. The biggest drawback is the fact that most classes 'lock in' a specific concept for your character, making it hard to develop any character who doesn't neatly fit a given class. There are options for multiclassing and hybrid characters, but they add a significant complexity to the game and I have no idea how balanced they are.

AD&D, especially 2e, offers a lot of opportunity for roleplaying, but with some substantial drawbacks. Characters are relatively quick to build, and while class options are relatively narrow, they do offer a lot of space in which to flesh out a particular concept. Various race choices will let you further expand this by letting you advance in 2 classes, while humans can 'dual-class' to gain skills from another. Unfortunately, the rules governing a lot of options are byzantinely complicated, and there is very little internal consistency as to what determines the outcome of particular actions. A lot of things don't have adequate rules in the first place, meaning that ad hoc decisions will be very necessary and roleplaying often decides many actions. If your group can think on the fly, though, these gaps can become a huge advantage for roleplaying especially.

2D8HP
2017-08-22, 01:40 PM
...candidates that are reasonably close in feel include Warrior, Rogue, and Mage; d6 Fantasy, and any number of systems that are basically D&D light (e.g. Microlight 20).


Now that is an interesting option!

I learned the D&D I know in 1978 when it was much easier for me to learn new things, and those rules (and RuneQuest based games) are my default choice.

The most popular games today: 3.5, and 5e D&D, have a lot of players seeking DM's, so if you learn them you won't be wanting for players (at least until something else becomes more popular, such as in the early 1990's when Champions, Cyberpunk, or Vampire pushed D&D aside at every table I could find), but 3.5 and 5e with all the options are a lot to learn, and while I'd play them, being the DM of full option 3.5 or 5e seems like too much work (especially 3.5, especially as a beginner). Knaight's suggestions seem to be worth exploring.

Herobizkit
2017-08-23, 05:35 AM
Dungeon World is another great storytelling system that is dice-lite and description-heavy while also having the familiar veneer of a D&D structure.

NorthernPhoenix
2017-08-23, 09:18 AM
I think 5e is clearly the best for anyone entering with modern sensibilities (i.e has played modern RPGs, watched critical role or similar).

Potatomade
2017-08-24, 11:11 PM
Yeah, 5E, as most everybody has said. However, I will parrot somebody on these forums and say to read through the 1E Dungeon Masters Guide, written by Gary Gygax himself. Not for rules, but to understand how to be a good DM, and to understand the guts of what D&D really is. And go to 2E for roleplaying inspiration and settings (Planescape and Spelljammer especially).

Actually, if 5E isn't an obvious win at this point, I'd recommend going with an edition that has cheap core rulebooks, especially the Player's Handbook. You can get 2E Handbooks for about $10 depending on where you look, especially if PDFs are available. The reason for this is: every player needs one. Sharing is nice at the table, but you're gonna need every player to go home and really READ the thing.