Wheel of Time: The 4th Age (Homebrewed D&D 3.5e)

[Durzan]

Been meaning to post this on here for a while, but..

INTRODUCTION

The Wheel of Time turns, and ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legends soon fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again. In one Age, called the Fourth Age by some, an Age yet to come, an Age long passed, a wind arose over the frigid north. The wind was not the beginning. There are neither beginnings or endings to the turning of the Wheel of Time. But it was a beginning.
Southward the wind blew, passing the mountain once known as Shayol Ghul, where the Dragon Reborn gave his life to save us all ages past. Onward it rushed, down through the lands of the blight, where shadowspawn once roamed in large numbers, but now where other dangers lurk…

Onward the wind blew, passing through the Borderlands, and through the streets of Tar’Valon, rippling the great banners of Malkier atop the gleaming towers and glorious white battlements of the great Borderland Capital. In the center of the city stood the gleaming White Tower, one of the tallest buildings in the world. It is here where the Aes Sedai, Servants of All, guide the fates of nations. It is here where the Amyrlin seat guides and rules her people.

Onward the wind blows, passing the great volcano of Dragonmount, with its smoking volcanic crater towering miles above the river that wound around its base. Southwest the winds turned, passing through Kinslayer’s Dagger, blowing onward through Jengai Pass in the Spine of the World, where Dwarves dig deeper, ever deeper, in search of precious jewels, ores, and gemstones. Out into the Aiel waste the wind rushed, over the cracked and parched land where Aiel Tribes constantly hone their skills with the spear, and where bands of roving monsters prey upon the weak. Heated by the blistering sun, the wind rises over the Cliffs of Dawn and barrels down through Shara, where city states constantly vie for territory and power, amidst tangled alliances and betrayals. This once mighty nation, the one that endured for 3000 years after the Breaking, forever shattered at the end of the Last Battle.

Over the Morenal Ocean the wind passes, as it journeys onward to Seanchan, land of exotic dangers and intrigue. Once shattered and broken by the hand of the Shadow, the land now stands unified under the Crystal Throne once more. Lazily the wind drifts over the Aryth Ocean, returning to the Wetlands. Where it passes over the Empire of the Raven, the lands Seanchan conquered at the end of the Third Age. Though now mostly autonomous, their leaders still swear loyalty to the Crystal Throne.

Picking up energy again, the wind rises higher into the sky, swiftly overcoming the mountains of mist and barreling down into the great nation of Manetheren, and passing through its Western Capital -- the city of Aeomon. As the wind passes, the Banner of the Gryphon waves proudly atop the Shining Walls of the city formerly known as Emond's Field, testifying to the strong will of its people, alongside the ancient banners of old: The Red Wolf of House Aybara, the Lion of Andor, and the ancient Red Eagle of Old Manetheren. Passing out of the two Rivers, the wind rushes over Caemlyn, rebuilt in the years following the Last Battle. In the center of the city, where the old palace of Andor used to be, stands a giant tower made of glistening Black Stone, taller than any building save it be its northern twin, the White Tower. It is here where the Guardians watch over the world, here stands the seat of the Asha'man, and the great Tamyrlin; here stands a beacon of hope and defiance against the Shadow, hand in hand with their sisters, the Aes Sedai. Faster the wind blows, passing rapidly over the great city of Avalon, the Eastern Capital of Manetheren, and the Court of the Sun… located where the river Alguenya merges with the river River Erinin.

Southward the winds turn, passing through Cairhien once more and entering the Great Empire of Tear, where shipping, trading, and commerce abound. From Illian in the Southwest, to Mayene in the southeast, all the way up to the mountains that form its Northern border with Manetheren, Tear is vast and thriving. Further southward the wind travels, now on its last few gusts… through the Sea of Storms, where the Islands of the sea folk lie, and onward to the mysterious Land of the Madmen, where Dragons are rumored to have sojourned, and where many other mysteries await.

Much has changed since the Dragon Reborn made his stand against the Dark One. Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, and Orcs now walk alongside Human and Ogier. Horrible creatures once thought lost to the turnings of the Wheel have returned, making the world much more dangerous and mysterious than it used to be. Ancient secrets and Hidden Treasures are waiting to be uncovered. Portal Stones have activated and surged with power, creating gateways to alternate realities... alien worlds long forgotten: The Etherial Plane, the Shadow Plane, the Elemental Planes, and the bizarre Outer Planes. Hell & Heaven... the Chaos of the Abyss... are all open now to explore. So come brave adventurer... do you have what it takes to explore the Great Pattern of the Wheel?

This is the 4th Age... the Age of Adventurers. Friends, welcome back to the beloved world of Robert Jordan. Welcome back to... the Wheel of Time!
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WORLD HISTORY

For the most part, I intend for all adventures in this campaign world to be set roughly 1000 years after the last battle. Apart from the time period below, and a few rough ideas i've batted around with friends, the time period between 200 ALB and ~1000 ALB is basically left up in the air.

A couple things to note to you guys though: The Dragon's Peace lasts roughly till 500 ALB, at which point it is utterly shattered when the Portal Stones activate and traditional creatures and races from D&D migrate into the world. This of course, causes some havoc, but things settle down again within the next few hundred years.

Also it is worth noting that technology does advance... with the exception of in warfare (IE, Medieval weapons such as swords, bows, axes, and so forth, are still commonly used). This is more for convenience sake than for lore, as I don't want to really deal with players using firearms.

Last Battle Aftermath (0 to ~200 ALB)

In the immediate aftermath of Last Battle and the end of the Third Age, the future was uncertain. Although the light had successfully managed to defeat Shai’tan and his minions, it came at a great cost: Rand al’Thor managed to save the world and reseal the Dark One, but at the apparent cost of his own life; Egwene al’Vere, greatest Amyrlin of the Third Age, sacrificed herself during the battle at Merilor to ensure the death of the Forsaken m’Hael, ensuring the Light’s Victory; the great city of Caemlyn, burned to the ground by shadowspawn; and most of all, countless numbers of the dead and wounded from all nations, including the leaders of many nations. With the face of the political landscape forever changed, and few political leaders left standing by the end of the Last Battle, It fell to the surviving heroes of the Last Battle to forge a path into this new age.

The Asha’man: With the betrayal of Mazrim Taim at the start of the Last Battle, Logan Ablar was declared leader of the Asha’man. Seeking to distance himself from the name of Taim, he named his position Tamyrlin, after the original highest rank of the Aes Sedai in the Age of Legends. With honor and glory on his mind, he rebuilt the city of Caemlyn, bigger and more beautiful than before, and relocated Asha’man Headquarters to the ruins of the Andoran Royal Palace. There he established a fortress made of shining black stone, with a single Black Tower in the center that rose to heights rivaling that of its white counterpart in Tar Valon. By around 100 ALB, the City of the Black Tower rivaled Tar Valon in its populace, and soon it became a hub of commerce and education, just like its counterpart. Under his reign, the Asha’man grew to their full potential, serving as defenders of the weak and helpless, and harbingers of justice.

The Aes’Sedai: With the death of Egwene Al’Vere, The Aes’Sedai were left leaderless at the start of the Fourth Age. However, that soon changed when the Aes’Sedai named Cadsuane as their new Amyrlin. Seeking to capitalize on the radical changes Egwene made to the tower while she was Amyrlin, she solidified and upheld the negotiations that Egwene made with the Wise Ones and the Sea Folk, strengthening the influence of the tower.

The Seanchan: General Mattrum Cauthon, the Prince of the Ravens, and his wife, Empress Fortuona of Seanchan spent years strengthening their claim on the wetlands under their control, then another few years building a massive invasion fleet in preparation for the reclamation of the Seanchan homeland. When at last they were finally prepared, they set sail across the Aryth Ocean. The initial invasion proved successful, although they suffered heavy casualties. While the war was long and bloody, and there were several close calls, Fortuona and Mattrum were victorious and the Seanchan Empire was once again reunited under the banner of the one true Empress.

The Borderlands: During the last Battle, all of the royal houses of the Borderlands were found to be slain. Although Perrin Aybara was crowned as King of Saldaea, the kingdoms of Kandor, Arafel, and Shienar were not nearly so lucky. With the blight dissipating and most shadowspawn in retreat, the citizens were faced with their first real sense of peace in three thousand years… and yet, their warlike cultures now had nothing to strive for… except perhaps the chance to claim the throne. House wars seemed certain, but it was only through the desperate intervention of al'Lan Mandragoran, King of Malkier and his wife the Aes Sedai Nynaeve al’Meara, was disaster averted. Because all the Borderlands would heed his call and follow his banner, he was declared High King of the Borderlands in year 7 ALB. With the Borderlands united, Lan worked to reestablish Malkier, and eventually did so… however, he eventually declared Tar’Valon the capital of the Borderlands and relocated his government there.

Andor, Cairhien, Saldaea, Gheldehan & the Two Rivers: With Caemlyn in ruins, and the countries of Andor and Cairehein united under one throne, Queen Elayne sought to establish a capital in more neutral ground. Therefore, she traveled to where the River Antaeo merged with the river Erinin and established the city of Avalon along the former border. Meanwhile, Perrin Aybara was crowned King of Saldaea, effectively uniting the Two Rivers and Saldaea into one nation, and tying the former Borderland nation to Andor. With Gheldehan swearing allegiance to the Perrin, All 5 nations and territories were effectively joined at the hip in a tangle of oaths of fealty, marriages, and kinship… forming the Gryphon compact and the foundation of the great nation that would soon arise.

Over time, the lines of House Aybara and House Trakand merged into one family, and the nations were reorganized into the reborn state of Manetheren. However, with such a vast territory under their control, and vastly different cultures to deal with, the ruling family of Manetheren opted to establish twin capitals, one in Avalon, and the other in the city of Aeomon.

[Durzan]

LORE

Eragar -- The First Lich: The tomb of the First Lich is an ancient tomb dating back to a time long before the Age of Legends. The tomb is home to an insane Demi-Lich known only by the name of Eragar (Which means Immortal Hope in the Old Tongue). Ages before Tamyrlin rediscovered the One Power, the ancient sorcerer that would become the Forgotten Forsaken known as Eragar existed. For many years, the sorcerer earnestly sought for the secrets of immortality so he could rule over his ancient empire for eternity; but… no matter how hard he tried, the secrets always managed to elude his grasp… that is until one day, a mysterious voice from beyond the bounds of the material plane whispered the secrets into his mind. Curiously, he followed the instructions of the voice, and in time he became the first Lich in the world.

But, the gift of immortality didn’t come without a price… the ritual the voice from beyond gave to Eragar involved the sacrifice of human souls, and this act itself drove the sorcerer to the brink of sanity. In his madness, Eragar sought to thank the voice, but knew not where it came from, so he built the first Portal Stones in an attempt to find the one who had bestowed upon him the gift. He built himself a secure tomb where his body and Phylactery could dwell in safety, while his soul used the power of the Portal Stones to Scavenge through the endless versions of reality, searching in vain for the one who had taught him.
Eons past, and the Wheel of Time turned, and the Age of Legends began. For thousands of years, the Demi-Lich walked among the Mirror Worlds, searching in vain. But he was snapped back into the real world when the Bore was formed… and found that the world where he came from was now long gone, lost to the turnings of the Wheel. It was at this time that the voice that had once whispered to him long ago spoke to Eragar once again, telling him to come to a place called Shayol Ghul. There he found out that the one who had taught him the secret of immortality was none other than Shai’Tan the Dark One. In gratitude he pledged his loyalty to the Dark One, and became a member of the Forsaken. But, before he could unleash his vast store of knowledge, the Forsaken Ishamael grew weary of the ancient Lich, and used powerful weaves to seal him inside the ancient tomb where his Phylactery rested.

This act finally broke the once great Demilich. The other servants of the being whom he spent years searching for, had betrayed him, and this betrayal caused him to begin to hate the very being that he had once revered. Trapped in a tomb, Eragar soon found that immortality was just as much a curse as it was a blessing as the extreme isolation soon drained what little will he had left. Soon, he found himself talking to the empty walls, slipping once more into madness in order to cope with both the isolation and the boredom. As time marched on, the madness took the form of multiple personality disorder, fracturing his consciousness into 9 distinct personalities (one for each of the traditional D&D Alignments). Each of the personalities now seeks for something… anything that can stave off the boredom… be it treasure, pesky adventurers, revenge against the Dark One, or just some hapless fool that he can talk to. Eragar is but a shadow of his former self, his ancient empire now long turned to dust, his ancient knowledge consumed by madness, and his drive to serve the Dark One burned out by the Betrayal of Hope. But make no mistake, despite his mad ravings, Eragar is still a dangerous foe. Time is nothing to him, and maybe someday, he will be freed from his prison and once again find purpose in existence and regain some measure of insanity.
And when that day comes... then perhaps, in his own way, he may prove to be more dangerous than the Dark One himself. But until that day comes, he is little more than a floating skull, laughing with insanity.

[Durzan]

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[Durzan]

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[Durzan]

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Hello? Any thoughts, comments, suggestions, or ideas? I am definitely open to them... particularly about the Demilich Eragar.

Seriously, can someone please respond. I posted what I have here because I wanna get commentary... thats kinda pointless when no one says anything...

[King of Nowhere]

First thing, demanding comments is unlikely to be reviewed positively. If people have nothing to say, they won't say it just because you ask.
Back on topic, I am quite skeptical of a wheel of time setting with dwarves and liches. It.. does not fit. Same goes for transplanting D&D in the wheel of time. They made a wheel of time roleplaying game, and basically the only input from robert jordan was of the sort "no, you can't have clerics of the light. No, you can't have monks. No, you can't have...".
Also, your chronology would need a lot more justification. the technology was at early renaissance level. they discovered gunpowder and steam engines at the end of the saga. the world has remained on a medieval stasis for three millennia only because ishamael was messing around and causing devastating wars. Unless something similar happens (but who would do it, with the dark one sealed?), 1000 years after the last battle they will be flying spaceships. and the aiel did not return to the waste; they were made into a sort of international arbiters by the treaty enforced by the dragon in the last book. they stopped fighting each other.
In general, no offence intended, but I really don't like the idea of making a wot-based setting. I can't think of any way of doing it without hamfistedly inserting into that world plenty of stuff that does not belong there, turning it into a mockery of itself.

[Durzan]

Thank you for responding, and giving some decent feedback!



Back on topic, I am quite skeptical of a wheel of time setting with dwarves and liches. It.. does not fit.

I'll admit that it would be hard to replicate the feel and themes of the books, as I am not Robert Jordan, but then again, I am not REALLY trying to do exactly replicate what RJ did, as even if I could, it would just be the same exact thing as we got in the books (the good and the bad). Instead, I wanted to leave the books mostly alone and use them as part of the setting's history, while also forging ahead and doing my own thing. Hence, why everything I've introduced involves material that doesn't really influence what happens in the books. Eragar, for instance, became a Lich way before the Age of Legends... and as a result his influence on the world as seen in the books was minimal at best... Hell, I even tied the Dark One into his origin story, because the process of becoming a Lich just seems like something that the Dark One would think up.

Fitting most D&D creatures, races, themes, magic items etc. into the Wheel of Time setting isn't hard to do at all, and it doesn't really change the world of Wheel of Time all that much. To be honest, WoT is just another Generic Fantasy setting with the same tropes and archetypes as any other story, just with the serial numbers filed off and with different details and flavor behind them. Trollocs, for instance, are basically just reflavored orcs or trolls. Once you understand that, a lot of stuff from D&D fits into the WoT world without too much hassle (there are exceptions of course). My philosophy is essentially to use the stuff mentioned in the WoT books to explain stuff from D&D.

The One Power is the only source of magic, period... all spell-casters use the One Power (Though how they view what exactly their powers are may vary from person to person... some might see it as power granted directly by the creator themselves, power from nature, their own brains, and so forth). Supernatural abilities not directly tied to the One Power are established to exist in the setting, as evidenced by Sniffers, Viewers, Foretellers, Wolfbrothers, and so on... so it would not be too hard to add in other D&D abilities as part of the same category.

The term Ter'angreal is really just a fancy name for magic items. Humanoid races are either offshoots of humanity, or are from other worlds (or Mirror Worlds) just like the Ogier. Planes are really easy: The Space Between Places is the Astral Plane, Tel'aran'rhiod is the Etherial Plane, the Shadow Plane is a twisted mirror of the material plane created by the Dark One (Shadowspawn still exist there, so I can still use them as enemies for my players to fight), Worldlets are demi-planes, the Mirror Worlds are parallel material planes, the inner planes is where the raw materials that the Creator used to form the Material Plane were gathered from, and The Outer Planes are different parts of the afterlife (with the assumption that those in the Outer Planes eventually reincarnate)... and all can be reached through the Portal Stones.

With this rather simple foundation, I have a lot of room to work with, and have bridged most inconsistencies between Wheel of Time and D&D. Just about every creature not found in the books can be explained away as either being native to the world (but never seen), being artificially created (such as undead creatures or shadowspawn), or being from another plane like the Seanchan Exotics. Spells not shown in Wheel of Time can easily be fit in, or left out entirely (Resurrection spells probably fit in this category).

Religion is probably the one thing that is harder to fit into Wheel of Time... just cause the books don't really deal with the concepts in any significant detail. I am willing to admit that the standard D&D pantheon wouldn't fit very well into the world. Its still possible to fit them in to some degree, but like everything else, you'd have to adjust them to the setting, not the setting to them. The easiest way to do it would be to say that the gods were really just really powerful people, and their stories became legend, then faded to myth... and now people worship them, because their stories are now larger than life, making them into gods. Or they could just be lesser deities that serve the Dark One or the Creator (depending on their alignment). But, I don't really have an interest in developing this aspect of my Wheel of Time adaptation.

All in all, Robert Jordan made the Wheel of Time a big and versatile world, both in area and in time. With a bit of effort, you could probably fit just about every story ever written into the setting as either a Mirror World or as a different Age in a previous Turning of the Wheel. This is the kind of versatility that works very well with D&D, so long as you are willing to adjust D&D stuff to fit with the setting, rather than trying to fit the setting to D&D, and butchering it in the process.


Same goes for transplanting D&D in the wheel of time. They made a wheel of time roleplaying game, and basically the only input from robert jordan was of the sort "no, you can't have clerics of the light. No, you can't have monks. No, you can't have..."

I am familar with the RPG... mechanically, it is very similar to D&D 3.0... to the point where you can sort of mesh it with 3.5e as is and have some decent compatibility. Heck, thats how this whole thing got started, when a friend of mine did just exactly that (and I grew up using said system). I am just taking it to the next level.

Robert Jordan and Wizards of the Coast were making that RPG under the assumption that gameplay would take place in and around the books (That was their first mistake). Clerics could be fit into Wheel of Time without stepping on RJ's toes... you just need to adapt the lore of the cleric to the setting, not the other way around. Wizards isn't really known for being adaptive, and as such, Robert Jordan had to put his foot down. Besides, I don't think he was all that interested in the RPG beyond some minimal input. Any form of magic has to use the One Power in it.

As such, Clerics would just be channelers who actively worshipped the Creator (or Dark One, for evil clerics), and attributed their magical powers to him. Since there was already two classes designed for magic users (Initiate and Wilder), there was no need for another class to be added with mechanics that weren't faithful to the setting's lore. Monks wouldn't be hard to adapt in either, provided you give it appropriate fluff that fits the setting. Maybe there are monks that hail from the land of Shara...


Also, your chronology would need a lot more justification. the technology was at early renaissance level. they discovered gunpowder and steam engines at the end of the saga.

An excellent point, and something that I have given some thought to, but eventually decided to just leave it intentionally vauge for the moment... especially when I consider the fact that technological progression is very hard to predict. Wheel of Time technology cannot be accurately compared to only one specific era of our own technological advancement because it has magic, which throws an additional wrench into an already complicated and inaccurate process of guesswork. Ultimately, I kinda view Wheel of Time as a somewhat more steampunk/magitech type setting after the books. However, to keep things simple, I want to just keep weaponry at pseudo-medieval tech, as that way I don't have to account for firearms and other stuff like that when balancing encounters.

Technology at the end of the third age was kind of interesting. On one hand, they were still using heavy swords, heavy armor, and shields during the Last Battle (medieval tech), but crossbows, gunpowder, and cannons (Renaissance era) have also existed or just recently were invented. Magic skews things up even further granting the equivalent of star trek tech (stuff we can only imagine) such as teleportation (traveling) and dimension hopping (Portal to World of Dreams). And that was just in the Third Age. In the Age of Legends and the time before, they had technology that was at least equivalent to our own tech, AND magic that our own current tech cannot possibly replicate with our current understanding of science (Weather Control, No Diseases, Medical Sciences that could heal just about any wound short of death or Stilling, etc.)... and yet there is NO conclusive evidence that they had the power to achieve space travel or jump dimensions (Remember that Portal Stones were largely a mystery even in the Age of Legends).


The world has remained on a medieval stasis for three millennia only because ishamael was messing around and causing devastating wars.

Its a bit more complicated than that... the world wasn't stuck in medieval times for the whole 3000 years. When advanced technology replaces more primitive tech, the knowledge and skills needed to use the more primitive tech fades with time; as a result, many of the populace did not have the skills needed to survive in a hospitable environment using nothing but basic self-made tools. Thus, when the Breaking occurred, leading to the total and utter collapse of society,\ and loss of almost all historical and technological knowledge, the people didn't have the knowledge or the ability to make anything of bronze level tech or higher, and on top of that, were struggling just to survive. This means that people living during the breaking were forced to revert back to the hunter-gatherer lifestyle, which would've caused the technology level to revert to prehistoric times. At best, the technological level of the world as a whole just after the breaking would've been a rough equivalent to the Stone Age. You know the saying that "If WW III is fought with nukes, then WW IV will be fought with sticks and stones,"? Yeah, that's basically what happened. They had a long way to climb back up, and the interference of the Dark One and Ishamael wasn't helping anything. It took them 3000 years just to GET back to a medieval level of technology.


Unless something similar happens (but who would do it, with the dark one sealed?), 1000 years after the last battle they will be flying spaceships. and the aiel did not return to the waste; they were made into a sort of international arbiters by the treaty enforced by the dragon in the last book. they stopped fighting each other.

Again, you are over-simplifying things here. Technology and tactics tend to advance rapidly during wartime, assuming there are a lot of people prone to innovation on one or both sides of course... which is what happened leading up to the Last Battle. However, during peacetime, technology advances a bit slower... if at all. On top of that, there can be many reasons why technology does or doesn't advance (or even regresses), that do not necessarily involve a major natural disaster or devastating war.

We don't know exactly how long the Age of Legends lasted, but we can assume that it had to have lasted at the bare minimum of at least a thousand years. With how slowly channelers age, the Age of Legends had to have been at least that long in order for memories of the first age to fade to legend, First Age legend to fade to myth, and First Age myth to become forgotten. In fact, it probably lasted for thousands of years. We also know that the Age of Legends was a time of absolute peace, filled with innovation, and lasted for thousands of years before the War of the Power occurred. As a result, we can make a few baseline assumptions about technological progression during that time period: it probably progressed at a slower but steady rate, with maybe a few small periods of significant innovation. The vast majority of their major technological advancement (once their core technologies and forms of magiks were invented) would focus upon refining and maximizing the efficiency of said tech instead of striving for new heights, and eventually technological innovation would peak and taper off. With no war, and with negative human emotions suppressed, all drive to expand beyond the planet would be significantly reduced to the point where it was an idle curiosity... thus, space travel would not be necessary, and that technology would not be researched, or would fall out of use if it was already invented.

Since there are many reasons why technology could assume a different path than ours, and many factors contribute to the advancement or hinderance of technology besides war and peacetime, assuming that the people 1000 years into the 4th age should be exploring space via spaceship just based on assumed technological advances is probably not the best thing to do. All I can say for sure, is that it would be a bit different than our own, and then alter things to be how I want them.

Essentially what happens in the timeline I have is that the Dragons Peace lasts about 500 years... things remain fairly peaceful in the Wetlands for the most part. Thus, for 500 some-odd years technology doesn't receive any major advances, especially if there is a decrease in ambition and innovation during this time. Then unfamiliar creatures from mirror worlds start pouring out of the portal stones (Creatures and races from D&D), which starts causing havoc. This event would bring about either a drop in technology, a period of innovation, or both... depending on what happens. Either way, by 1000 ALB, technology is in a weird place. Essentially, its in a vaguely medieval magitech/Steampunk level... or at least that is where it will be headed. I still am keeping medieval tech for weapons and stuff just for simplicity's sake (its not really fantasy anymore if you lose the swords and shields), but I have planted the seeds for the building of trains and railroads, and other forms of post-medieval tech. I'm keeping things flexible on this, as I am still in the process of developing how the world developed after the Last Battle.


In general, no offence intended, but I really don't like the idea of making a wot-based setting. I can't think of any way of doing it without hamfistedly inserting into that world plenty of stuff that does not belong there, turning it into a mockery of itself.

Thats why I've put careful thought into it. "Stuff that doesn't belong in it," is a bit of a hamfisted statement... especially when considering the setting as a whole, and also considering the fact that I've worked on this project for years. I agree that there are certain things that shouldn't be touched... in the books. The Third Age has a specific feel to it and shouldn't be messed with, however, that doesn't mean that the other Ages have to have the same feel to them at all... in fact, thats kinda the whole point behind the Wheel having different Ages in the first place.

With the way RJ set up the Wheel of Time setting (multiple Turnings of the Wheel, alongside an infinite number of Mirror Worlds to play with), literally just about anything could be fit into the setting with the right amount of patience and hard work. He literally created a world more vast than Lord of the Rings or Star Wars, and then proceeded to tell one story within said world, and this is one of the reasons why I like it so much. The Wheel of Time turns and change happens with every turning of the Wheel; adding and changing things doesn't make WoT a mockery of itself... rather it just adds more to its identity. What happens before or after said story is up to our imaginations... and what I am doing is imagining a story that takes place long after (and long before) the 3rd Age ends.

Any new thoughts?

[YossarianLives]

Any new thoughts?
It doesn't seem like you're interested in receiving feedback. King of Nowhere raised a lot of solid points, only to have you refute them with shaky logic rather than try to improve. You're right that Randland is a fairly generic medieval fantasy setting - but you've cranked that up to 11 by shoving in Vancian magic and Tolkienian races, while simultaneously removing all the features that make it unique.

I'd love to give you feedback, but not if it's just going to be ignored.

[Durzan]

It doesn't seem like you're interested in receiving feedback. King of Nowhere raised a lot of solid points, only to have you refute them with shaky logic rather than try to improve.

Oh, please don't put words in my mouth that I never said. I am actually very interested in feedback... its why I even bothered posting this thread in the first place. However, I am looking for "how should I improve this, and what should I change/adjust to get it to fit within the feel of the world" vein of feedback, rather than the "you shouldn't even have done this entire project in the first place" type of feedback... which was what a decent chunk of what King of Nowhere's post was about.

Refuting a response =/= ignoring it. If I were truly ignoring feedback, I would not have responded to his points at all. The fact that I responded at all (not to mention the length and content of the post) indicates that I at least gave what he said some thought and consideration.

His points essentially boiled down to the following:

His point on demanding comments not being viewed positively is valid, though going a bit off topic. Though I was less demanding and more so pleading in a frustrated manner. I mean, whats the point of posting the darn thread in the first place, if no one bothers to say anything at all?
He was skeptical that I even could fit D&D monsters, spells, etc. into Wheel of Time lore and have it make sense. My response was to try to demonstrate how I did it. I did this by pointing out Planes (There are multiple dimensions or planes of existence in both Wheel of Time and D&D... some of which seem to have overlapping properties. For instance, Skimming goes through a black void, the World Between Places, which bears a lot of properties that seem eerily similar to the Astral Plane. Likewise, Tel'aran'rhiod and the Etherial Plane share some strikingly similar descriptions. Using those worlds as a baseline, it is not hard to extrapolate how the other planes would fit into the world), Magic and Supernatural Abilities (All magic users are Channelers and they use the One Power as described in the books... Vanacian Magic doesn't exist or function as stated in D&D. Other supernatural abilities could be fit in as lost abilities similar to those possessed by Min, Perrin, Matt, Sniffers, Dreamers, and so forth.), and the Mirror Worlds (The Mirror Worlds, the Aielfin and Eelfin, and the Ogier establish that there are other intellegent races as well as strange monsters that exist in parallel worlds. The Seanchan Exotics and the Ogier clearly demonstrate that migration from one mirror world to another is possible, so it is not that much of a stretch to say that the other Core D&D Races as well as more traditional monsters originated in other Mirror Worlds and somehow migrated over) can fit together into one cohesive whole not by altering WoT lore, but by instead altering D&D lore to fit the WoT world. That is kinda the whole point of this thread. Add in the fact that something "not fitting" into a world is largely based on opinion, and you can see that this point is not as strong as you would first think. Thus, I addressed this point rather adequately.
He pointed out that the chronology of my timeline needs working on, specifically with regards to why the technology hasn't advanced beyond Last Battle era tech, and made the assumption that they should have tech that should be space age or beyond. Valid point, but he illustrated it with inaccurate assumptions. I am a bit picky when it comes to assumptions. Technological progression isn't exactly easy to predict accurately even in the real world, and when you add magic into the mix it makes it even harder. This in part due to the fact that war causes a lot of technological innovation (or can cause massive regression) while peace causes technology to either advance really slowly or stagnate (for various reasons I don't want to get into). Our tech tree isn't the same as the WoT tech tree, so assuming that things progress exactly like they would on earth is pointless. They could advance faster... or much slower... even without much interference. Ultimately, the choice to keep weaponry at medieval levels is more for in-game convenience than anything else. (Note that I said just weaponry. Technology can advance... in fact, the development of steam engines and trains is a potential plot point in one of the campaigns) I want the world to have a slight steampunk/magitech feel to it (just without those stupid gnomes), but trying to justify it is the hard part, and one of the areas I could use some suggestions on.
The Aiel aren't living in the waste, and are arbiters of peace. This was a small point that was hidden in the paragraph about technology and the time-line. As a result, I failed to address it. I actually have accounted for this issue a while ago... just haven't posted it here. My response is this: a. The Shaido still live in the Waste (permanently). b. the tribes of Aiel basically serve as a sort of international police force, and over time, wetlanders joined the ranks of the Algai'd'Siswai. Since the entire Aiel race isn't needed to be in the Westlands (and they would've grown soft if they stayed constantly), Aiel Tribes rotate every couple of years between training/living in the Aiel Waste and serving as peacekeepers in the Wetlands. Hence, why the opening description of the world was written the way it was.
He didn't like the idea of making a WoT based setting. Thats his opinion and he's entitled to it... but my work is far from being ham-fisted, and extends beyond the little bit i've already posted in this thread. I must admit that he did ruffle my feathers a bit with that last statement of his. Considering that I spent years carefully adapting and powering up the necessary homebrew to make this work, clear out some of the 3.5 clunkiness, make it fun to play, I think that is understandable. And when you add in the fact that a decent amount of the mechanical aspect behind the homebrew involves flat out using stuff from the Wheel of Time D20, or adapting it and powering stuff up, I think you should be able to say that I am working to do this change faithfully while also expanding my options as a Game Master.



You're right that Randland is a fairly generic medieval fantasy setting - but you've cranked that up to 11 by shoving in Vancian magic and Tolkienian races, while simultaneously removing all the features that make it unique.

Vanacian magic... now thats going too far. I hate Vanacian magic and their stupid spell components with a passion... no consistency between what spells need what components, and an absolute nightmare to justify lore-wise. Heck, thats part of the reason why I am using the spell system from Wheel of Time D20... no spell components to deal with, no need to prepare spells before hand, and no limits on the number of spells you can memorize. Its not perfect (A Mana-Based system is my personal preference), but I will work with what I have, and it does the job of simulating the One Power reasonably well.With a little bit of clean up, its not half a bad system, even though it is still a spell-slot based system. Since D&D spells can be easily adapted and reflavored to use the One Power, how is that "shoving in vanacian magic"?

"Shoving in Tolkienian races..."? Fair enough, I'll grant you that point. For a world bigger than star wars such as Wheel of Time (due to the portal stones, and previous turnings of the wheel), the world seems a tad bit empty as far as playable races go, as well as of creatures I could throw at the players... especially considering that shadowspawn were wiped out at the end of the last book. As a DM, I have to take some liberties, otherwise things would get boring for the players, and including Tolkienian races and monsters is one of them. Since these creatures migrated to the the WoT world in the 4th age, then eventually they will migrate back to their original mirror worlds, as elves and dwarves would need to be long forgotten by the time the 4th age comes again.

"...while simultaneously removing all the features that made [wheel of time] unique..."? Umm... where did I say that I removed the unique aspects of Wheel of Time from the setting? Please do not assume that I would do such a thing... and if I did so unintentionally, could you point it out?

Wheel of Time has the following as unique aspects: Circular Time with Ages (Kept); A good supreme being and a bad supreme being imprisoned at the moment of creation (Kept); Ogier (kept); the One Power (definitely a keeper); snobbish women and bull-headed men (Kept, but tone down just a tad); themes of dualism, teamwork, fate, and choice; alternate realities via the mirror worlds (Keeping for sure!); Somewhat gritty tone and a very detailed world (Trying to keep, but may fail at emulating this); and so forth. So far, I see nothing that I have removed that Wheel of Time originally had... I'm just using D&D to fill in some blanks!


I'd love to give you feedback, but not if it's just going to be ignored.

Again, who said I ignored responses? Refuting a point because of faulty assumptions =/= ignoring it. Feedback isn't really all that helpful if it's based on a false assumption or incomplete information, and its hard to address every single point a person brings up (case in point, that bit about the Aiel).

So please, give feedback. And when doing so, ask questions, and try to make your points clear and organized. I do appreciate it.

[YossarianLives]

Oh, please don't put words in my mouth that I never said. I am actually very interested in feedback... its why I even bothered posting this thread in the first place. However, I am looking for "how should I improve this, and what should I change/adjust to get it to fit within the feel of the world" vein of feedback, rather than the "you shouldn't even have done this entire project in the first place" type of feedback... which was what a decent chunk of what King of Nowhere's post was about.

Refuting a response =/= ignoring it. If I were truly ignoring feedback, I would not have responded to his points at all. The fact that I responded at all (not to mention the length and content of the post) indicates that I at least gave what he said some thought and consideration.
Fair enough, I hope I didn't come across as too aggressive.


His point on demanding comments not being viewed positively is valid, though going a bit off topic. Though I was less demanding and more so pleading in a frustrated manner. I mean, whats the point of posting the darn thread for others to get feedback if no one gives you feedback?
I feel you - it can be hard to get people on the internet to care about what you do, no matter the effort you've put in. It can be very disheartening.

He was skeptical that I even could fit D&D monsters, spells, etc. into Wheel of Time lore and have it make sense. My response was to try to demonstrate how I did it. I did this by pointing out Planes (There are multiple dimensions or planes of existence in both Wheel of Time and D&D... some of which seem to have overlapping properties. For instance, Skimming goes through a black void, the World Between Places, which bears a lot of properties that seem eerily similar to the Astral Plane. Likewise, Tel'aran'rhiod and the Etherial Plane share some strikingly similar descriptions. Using those worlds as a baseline, it is not hard to extrapolate how the other planes would fit into the world), Magic and Supernatural Abilities (All magic users are Channelers and they use the One Power as described in the books... Vanacian Magic doesn't exist or function as stated in D&D. Other supernatural abilities could be fit in as lost abilities similar to those possessed by Min, Perrin, Matt, Sniffers, and so forth.), and the Mirror Worlds (The Mirror Worlds, the Aielfin and Eelfin, and the Ogier establish that there are other intellegent races as well as strange monsters that exist in parallel worlds. The Seanchan Exotics and the Ogier clearly demonstrate that migration from one mirror world to another is possible, so it is not that much of a stretch to say that the other Core D&D Races as well as more traditional monsters originated in other Mirror Worlds and somehow migrated over) can fit together into one cohesive whole not by altering WoT lore, but by instead altering D&D lore to fit the WoT world. That is kinda the whole point of this thread. Add in the fact that something "not fitting" into a world is largely based on opinion, and you can see that this point is not as strong as you would first think. Thus, I addressed this point rather adequately.
I suppose it's mostly a matter of personal taste - for me, an abundance of sapient humanoids detracts from a setting's cohesion and verisimilitude. You do you.

He pointed out that the chronology of my timeline needs working on, specifically with regards to why the technology hasn't advanced beyond Last Battle era tech, and made the assumption that they should have tech that should be space age or beyond. Valid point, but he illustrated it with inaccurate assumptions. I am a bit picky when it comes to stuff like this. Technological progression isn't exactly easy to predict accurately even in the real world, and when you add magic into the mix it makes it even harder. This in part due to the fact that war causes a lot of technological innovation (or can cause massive regression) while peace causes technology to either advance really slowly or stagnate (for various reasons I don't want to get into). Our tech tree isn't the same as the WoT tech tree, so assuming that things progress exactly like they would on earth is pointless. They could advance faster... or much slower... even without much interference. Ultimately, the choice to keep weaponry at medieval levels is more for in-game convenience than anything else. (Note that I said just weaponry. Technology can advance... in fact, the development of steam engines and trains is a potential plot point in one of the campaigns) I want the world to have a slight steampunk/magitech feel (just without those stupid gnomes) to it, but trying to justify it is the hard part, and one of the areas I could use some suggestions on. If you want to argue that magical advancement stunted science, that's reasonable. But follow the consequences of that: the best fictional settings are ones where the author considers the natural implications of the truths they have set, then follows through on them without bias or preconceived notions. The Age of Legends had flying machines, robots (basically), and firearms, all created via magic.

The Aiel aren't living in the waste, and are arbiters of peace. This was a small point that I actually failed to address in my post addressing King of Nowhere's points. I noticed it when I first read through it, but it was pinned right there in the paragraph about technology, so I forgot about it. I actually have accounted for this issue a while ago... just haven't posted it. my response is this: a. The Shaido still live in the Waste. b. the tribes of Aiel basically serve as a sort of international police force, and over time, wetlanders joined the ranks of the Algai'd'Siswai. Since the entire Aiel race isn't needed to be in the Westlands (and they would've grown soft if they stayed constantly), Aiel Tribes rotate every couple of years between training/living in the Aiel Waste and serving as peacekeepers in the Wetlands. Hence, why the opening description of the world was written the way it was.
Cool - it makes sense that, as time advanced, being Aiel would start to shift towards a way of life, rather than a race. I'm not sure how deep you want to go, but it may be worth considering how the original Aiel feel about their culture being appropriated. And how person born of Aiel parents but raised outside the Waste views themselves.

He didn't like the idea of making a WoT based setting. Thats his opinion and he's entitled to it... but my work is far from being ham-fisted, so I must admit that he did ruffle my feathers a bit with that last statement of his. I spent years carefully adapting and powering up the necessary homebrew to make this work, clear out some of the 3.5 clunkiness, AND make it fun to play. Considering that a decent amount of the mechanical aspect behind this involves flat out using stuff from the Wheel of Time D20, or adapting it and powering stuff up.
Understandable. Maybe you could share some of the mechanics you've created? I feel like that would give some clarity.

Vanacian magic... now thats going too far. I hate Vanacian magic and their stupid spell components with a passion... no consistency between what spells need what components, and an absolute nightmare to justify lore-wise. Heck, thats part of the reason why I am using the spell system from Wheel of Time D20... no spell components to deal with, no need to prepare spells before hand, and no limits on the number of spells you can memorize. Its not perfect (A Mana-Based system is my personal preference), but I will work with what I have, and it does the job of simulating the One Power reasonably well.With a little bit of clean up, its not half a bad system, even though it is still a spell-slot based system. Since D&D spells can be easily adapted and reflavored to use the One Power, how is that "shoving in vanacian magic"?
I'm glad to hear it - but you never actually said that before. I very much got the impression that you were directly porting D&D into this setting, while you seem to be houseruling some things and porting in others from the WoT RPG. Sorry for the confusion.

"Shoving in Tolkienian races..."? Fair enough, I'll grant you that point. For a world bigger than star wars such as Wheel of Time (due to the portal stones, and previous turnings of the wheel), the world seems a tad bit empty as far as playable races go, as well as of creatures I could throw at the players... especially considering that shadowspawn were wiped out at the end of the last book. As a DM, I have to take some liberties, otherwise things would get boring for the players, and including Tolkienian races and monsters is one of them. Since these creatures migrated to the the WoT world in the 4th age, then eventually they will migrate back to their original mirror worlds, as elves and dwarves would need to be long forgotten by the time the 4th age comes again.Once again, this is a matter of personal taste and I won't challenge you on it.

"...while simultaneously removing all the features that made [wheel of time] unique..."? Umm... where did I say that I removed the unique aspects of Wheel of Time from the setting? Please do not assume that I would do such a thing... and if I did so unintentionally, could you point it out?

Wheel of Time has the following as unique aspects: Circular Time with Ages (Kept); A good supreme being and a bad supreme being imprisoned at the moment of creation (Kept); Ogier (kept); the One Power (definitely a keeper); snobbish women and bull-headed men (Kept, but tone down just a tad); themes of dualism, teamwork, fate, and choice; alternate realities via the mirror worlds (Keeping for sure!); Somewhat gritty tone and a very detailed world (Trying to keep, but may fail at emulating this); and so forth. So far, I see nothing that I have removed that Wheel of Time originally had... I'm just using D&D to fill in some blanks!
For me, a big part of the setting's appeal is how different species are handled. You have humans as the standard, of course, but we also get to see how incredibly different creatures like Ogier, Trollocs and Fades live. But we've been over that. More than anything, I think this comes down to miscommunication - D&D tends to represent the things you listed rather poorly, and my initial impression was that you were porting the setting, stock, lock and barrel, directly into the Dungeons and Dragons system, putting crunch before fluff. I stand corrected. I am curious about how you're handling the big bad, though - the ending of the books means that the Dark One will not be freed until the 2nd Age rolls around again, maybe not even then. Eragar seems like a minor threat compared to him, and I feel it would be wrong to promote him to this level. The Dark One is the literal embodiment of evil, and probably the second most powerful being is existence.

Also, this stood out to me:

The Asha’man: [/B]With the betrayal of Mazrim Taim at the start of the Last Battle, Logan Ablar was declared leader of the Asha’man. Seeking to distance himself from the name of Taim, he named his position Tamyrlin, after the original highest rank of the Aes Sedai in the Age of Legends. With honor and glory on his mind, he rebuilt the city of Caemlyn, bigger and more beautiful than before, and relocated Asha’man Headquarters to the ruins of the Andoran Royal Palace. There he established a fortress made of shining black stone, with a single Black Tower in the center that rose to heights rivaling that of its white counterpart in Tar Valon. By around 100 ALB, the City of the Black Tower rivaled Tar Valon in its populace, and soon it became a hub of commerce and education, just like its counterpart. Under his reign, the Asha’man grew to their full potential, serving as defenders of the weak and helpless, and harbingers of justice.
[B]What happened to Elayne? I don't think she would abandon control of Andor, especially with it in such a dire state, short of death.

[Durzan]

I'm only going to respond to some of the things you said... mainly the ones where you have a suggestion or question wether directly stated or implied.


Fair enough, I hope I didn't come across as too aggressive.

Its okay, that happens sometimes.


If you want to argue that magical advancement stunted science, that's reasonable. But follow the consequences of that: the best fictional settings are ones where the author considers the natural implications of the truths they have set, then follows through on them without bias or preconceived notions. The Age of Legends had flying machines, robots (basically), and firearms, all created via magic.

Thanks for this suggestion. I'm still thinking things out with regards to the area. Magical Advancement stunting science is definitely one possible way to go...


Cool - it makes sense that, as time advanced, being Aiel would start to shift towards a way of life, rather than a race. I'm not sure how deep you want to go, but it may be worth considering how the original Aiel feel about their culture being appropriated. And how person born of Aiel parents but raised outside the Waste views themselves.

The Aiel would be of mixed opinion about their culture being appropriated. Some would find it refreshing... a little bit of wetlander opinions and views would help balance their own thoughts. Of course others would probably see the mixing of cultures as a corruption, and look upon the converts with a degree of distain. They would say something like "Even though you adopted our customs, you wetlanders do not truly understand what it means to be Aiel." As for Aiel raised outside the Waste would view themselves, I'm not really sure. One thing's for sure though, they probably would see the Waste at least once during their lifetimes.


Understandable. Maybe you could share some of the mechanics you've created? I feel like that would give some clarity.

I could write a whole 'nother thread on the homebrew I wrote up and/or adapted to allow for D&D and Wheel of Time to mesh. Its practically another game that uses 3.5e as a base. Just like how Pathfinder was an offshoot of 3.5, so too is this game... although currently you still need the Core Rulebooks, the notes I've been working on and the Wheel of Time RPG D20 book to play. I took a few pages from Pathfinder as well.

Generally speaking, the changes involved were just cleaning things up, modifying existing material, or creating alternate material. Most of the work involved simply creating new core classes with no dead levels, slightly changing up race design, create a few prestige classes, some background packages (you pick one background at first level instead of getting your 1st level standard feat), merging feats together to, using the Wheel of Time D20 magic system pretty much as written (and making adaptations to D&D spells and spell schools to account for that), simplifying how the skill system works, adjusting numbers to account for Wheel of Time quirks, develop a number of house rules to make playing a bit easier, create new monsters, so on and so forth.

Starting Out: Characters start at a level of the GM’s Discretion, with 100 x their level in starting gold. Roll for ability scores using 4d6 drop the lowest, rolling 3 sets of 6 rolls and taking the set that the player desires.


Levels: There is no maximum cap on your character level. Class levels do cap at the maximum level listed for said class. If you max out a class, next time you level up, simply multi-class into another class, or level up in a class that you haven’t maxed out yet. DO NOT USE THE RULES FOR EPIC LEVELS IN THE EPIC LEVEL HANDBOOK OR THE DM’S GUIDE! Your BAB and saves go up according to the sum of all your class levels as normal. The number of attacks gained through having a high BAB caps at 4 attacks per round, although some spells, feats, and class abilities will let you add additional attacks.


Classes: Players can only choose from 6 core classes: The Armsman (basically a fighter), the Wanderer (basically a rouge), the Commander (A support role via Party Buffing), the Woodsman (basically a ranger), the Martialist (Basically a monk. Monks are too fun to pass up adding to the Wheel of Time world), and the Channeler (Spellcasting class that uses the Wheel of Time casting system, and replaces all caster classes from D&D. Uses Spell Slots as resource. Casts like a sorcerer, but learns spells like a Wizard. No spell components required at all, unless creating a magical item. Must specialize in a school of magic, but can spend a feat to pick up additional schools of magic. Can learn a spell from any spell list, assuming it exists in the world of course, but can only cast a spell above 1st level spell if said spell is in one of her schools of magic. In addition, Requires low DC concentration checks for casting all spells.)


Races: Races adjusted and improved to fit the homebrew system. All playable races have been rebalanced to receive a net +2 bonus to racial ability modifiers. Further more, each race has been grouped together with other subraces for better organization. See the Race section for further details.


Feats: You no longer get a standard feat at first level. Instead, you get to choose a background, which grants your character bonuses and tells the GM a little bit about where your character came from. Some feats have been merged or modified for simplicity and to reduce feat tax.


Skills: The skill list has been trimmed down and modified; many skills have been merged or replaced. Class Skills have a maximum rank of your Character Level + 3, and cross-class skills have half of that. All skills increase 1 rank per skill point spent, making skill points that much easier to place and deal with. Your character’s class skills are the combined class skills of all of your classes and your background. Skill Points increase retroactively whenever your intelligence modifier increases or decreases. A Skill check automatically fails on a natural 1, but doesn’t automatically succeed on a natural 20.


Combat: Roll your initiative on a D20 instead of a D10; otherwise, it works as normal. Critical hits automatically succeed and don’t need a second roll to confirm; however, you can get a double or even a triple critical by rolling two or three critical hits in a roll. A double critical automatically increases the critical multiplier by 1 for that attack, while a triple critical does that in addition to maxing out your damage. Critical misses result in a number of different effects including tripping, dropping your weapon, accidentally hitting a nearby ally, leaving you flat footed until your next turn, or giving an adjacent opponent a free AOO against you.


Magic: Magic uses the rules for Channeling from Wheel of Time D20. Weave Slot progression is adapted from the sorcerer’s spell progression, but has been modified to grant additional spells at higher levels. Channelers have a maximum cap on the number of weave slots they get for levels, ending at a channeler level of 30. The table is given below:







Universal & Balefire



Warding & Abjuration



Divination, Cloud Dancing, and Conjuration



Enchantment & Conjunction



Evocation & Elementalism



Illusion



Healing, Conjuration, and Necromancy



Transmutation & Earth Singing



Traveling & Conjuration




Conjuration spells are the odd ones out, as unlike the other schools of magic, do not fit into one specific Talent. As a result, careful judgement would be necessary in determining which spell goes in which talent.

Shadowspawn were kinda hard to adapt to a 3.5e system. I was gonna keep shadowspawn as its own separate type, but then I realized... it would be easier to just build each shadowspawn from scratch based on a D&D base type, and then apply Shadowspawn as a subtype.

That was just an overview. If you want more details, I will have to create another thread.


For me, a big part of the setting's appeal is how different species are handled. You have humans as the standard, of course, but we also get to see how incredibly different creatures like Ogier, Trollocs and Fades live. But we've been over that. More than anything, I think this comes down to miscommunication - D&D tends to represent the things you listed rather poorly, and my initial impression was that you were porting the setting, stock, lock and barrel, directly into the Dungeons and Dragons system, putting crunch before fluff. I stand corrected. I am curious about how you're handling the big bad, though - the ending of the books means that the Dark One will not be freed until the 2nd Age rolls around again, maybe not even then. Eragar seems like a minor threat compared to him, and I feel it would be wrong to promote him to this level. The Dark One is the literal embodiment of evil, and probably the second most powerful being is existence.

Eragar wasn't really designed to be a Big Bad, although he could easily fulfill said role if I wanted him to. Eragar possesses a vast amount knowledge, wisdom, and intellect behind those glowing red eyes of his. If Eragar had the proper motive, he would be fully capable of masterminding some brilliant plan that could shatter the pattern into pieces, even though his power doesn't even come close to approaching that of the Dark One. He achieves his goals through intelligence, guile, and meticulous planning. Who is more of a threat to the world that Superman protects... Lex Luthor, or Doomsday? Luthor doesn't have any powers, but his intellect makes him a more dangerous foe... and so it is with Eragar. Hence, why I say he can be more dangerous than the Dark One. He was his own special form of evil, even before the Dark One told him how to become a Lich.

In all honesty though, I don't want him to be the BBEG. I created Eragar because I wanted an interesting character to for the party to deal with, and I decided that a Demilich with multiple personalities would be rather entertaining to watch. On top of that, I needed to find a way to explain how some channelers figured out how to make Phylacteries... So, I killed two birds with one stone, and gave him the title of First Lich to fulfill said purpose. Since he is the only known Lich in existence, All I need to do now is have him spill the beans about how to make a Phylactery to some foolish mortals... and then have said foolish mortals perform the ritual and become Liches themselves, and boom, I have a few normal liches to have fun with.

Ultimately, The Dark One is still the overall big bad for the world. Just because the bore is patched doesn't mean that he can't meddle with the world... he just can't do so through direct means. However, he can speak to the hearts and minds of men and draw them away like the Devil does in our world... AND he happens to have control over at least one plane of existence... namely the Shadow Plane, and possibly the Abyss as well. I mean, the Dark One does seem like he is the ultimate embodiment of Chaotic Evil... am I right... and if he is truly the source of all evil, then that means that the Evil aligned planes must answer to him one way or another.

With Eragar constantly plane jumping, it didn't take long for the Dark One to figure out a way to use the portal stones to serve as links to the material plane. So therefore, the Dark One can influence the material plane indirectly through the Shadow Plane. For instance, he can send Shadowspawn to the Material Plane from the Shadow Plane.



What happened to Elayne? I don't think she would abandon control of Andor, especially with it in such a dire state, short of death.

This was addressed in the part that talks about how Manetheren was reformed. Elayne was left without a capitol after the Last Battle. While she originally wanted to rebuild Caemlyn herself, she instead took the opportunity to establish a new capitol in a more centralized location. This capitol took the form of a new city named Avalon that was built along the former border of Andor and Cairehein. Doing so helped cement the alliance between both nations, and ensured that she would not seem to favor one nation over the other.

[King of Nowhere]

ok, seems like you considered how to meld the different settings.
I still can't like it, but that's a personal taste

[Durzan]

ok, seems like you considered how to meld the different settings.
I still can't like it, but that's a personal taste

Perfectly fine with me, we live in free countries. Thank you for your critique.

I will try to keep this thread updated, so if you are interested in following, feel free to do so.

Any additional thoughts from either anyone who's been here before, or from someone else who's browsing?