Daggerspell Mage build help

[ZenBear]

First time in forever playing 3.5 and the party needs a rogue/arcane caster. Looking through my buddy's Complete Adventurer book I thought of going Spellthief 1(or 2)/Sorcerer 5/Daggerspell Mage 10/Spellthief 5. Would this work well or would it be UP in some way? It looks like the Spellthief abilities work off "class level" meaning multiclassing gimps it? I did a bit of googling and it seems like people don't much like the DsM. Thoughts and tips?

[gorfnab]

First off, here are some handbooks that may help.
The Pokedex Primer to Spellthievery (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=12677)
Jack-Of-All-Trades: Fax Celestis' Guide to Spellthieves (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?44299-Jack-Of-All-Trades-Fax-Celestis-Guide-to-Spellthieves)
Sneak Attacking Spellcasters: God's Shifty-Eyed Cousins (http://bg-archive.minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1240)

Spellthief abilities are linked to class level, however the feat Master Spellthief (CS) can get around some of that in multiclass situations.

As you build stands you miss out on 8th and 9th level spells. That is almost always not a recommended situation for a caster. A more solid Rogue/Caster type build is: Rogue (or Spellthief with the feat Able Learner) 1/ Wizard 5 (Spontaneous Divination ACF) 5/ Unseen Seer 10 (with the Practiced Spellcaster feat)/ Arcane Trickster 4. This set up nets you decent skills, almost full casting (19/20 levels), and decent amounts of sneak attack (especially with the spell Hunters Eye).

[Fouredged Sword]

Ok, people don't tend to like dagger spell mage. It's not that it is a bad class, rather there are two BETTER classes that do the exact same thing.

Arcane Trickster is a ten level class with decent skills, +5d6 sneak attack, and FULL SPELLCASTING ADVANCEMENT. Daggerspell mage has 2 more skill points, but loses a spellcaster level and +2d6 sneak attack.

The OTHER very popular option is Unseen Seer. Here is another 10 level full spellcasting class that grants sneak attack (+4d6 this time). It grants the same 6+int skills as daggerspell mage. This class also let's you steal 3 divination spells off ANY class list and add it to yours. You want hunter's eye (swift action for more sneak attack die), Sniper's shot (swift action to uncap sneak attack range) and any other divination of your choice.

Dagger spell mage also traps you into duel wielding daggers, and that isn't always the best for someone who has all the power of 9th level spells.

Spellthief is a perfectly fine choice for getting your sneak attack. The Master Spellthief feat allows ALL arcane casting in light armor and allows all arcane caster levels to count towards the maximum level of spell you can steal. Some DM's read it as ALSO allowing you to hold more spells. Some DM's read this as not allowing you to hold any additional spell levels.

Most people prefer wizard over sorcerer for spellcasting as Int get's you more skill points and you will be struggling to maintain all your skills without a high int score. Sorcerer is fine as well, just be aware that you are going to have skill issues.

The archetypal build is Spellthief (or rogue) 1 / wizard (or sorcerer) 4 / Unseen Seer 10 / Arcane Trickster 5. You end up your build with 19 spellcaster levels and +7d6 sneak attack.

If you really want to stick to dagger spell mage, I would do the following

Spellthief 1 / Wizard (or sorcerer) 4 / Unseen Seer 5 / Dagger Spell Mage 10. You end up with +6d6 sneak attack and 18 spellcasting levels. You do get 10 more skill points though.

[DEMON]

Seconding the Spellthief / Wizard -> Unseen Seer suggestion. You can finish it off by anything ranging from Daggerspell Mage / Arcane Trickster to Abjurant Champion or Spellwarp Sniper. Don't forget to take the Practiced Spellcaster feat.

Another option is to go with a Beguiler (PHB2), which is a rogue/arcane caster in a single class (though more limited, since it lacks any sneak attack and mostly focuses on Enchantments and Illusions). It also offers much of the same PrC combos as suggested above. Basically auto-qualifies for the Unseen Seer without effort.

[Fouredged Sword]

Seconding the Spellthief / Wizard -> Unseen Seer suggestion. You can finish it off by anything ranging from Daggerspell Mage / Arcane Trickster to Abjurant Champion or Spellwarp Sniper. Don't forget to take the Practiced Spellcaster feat.

Another option is to go with a Beguiler (PHB2), which is a rogue/arcane caster in a single class (though more limited, since it lacks any sneak attack and mostly focuses on Enchantments and Illusions). It also offers much of the same PrC combos as suggested above. Basically auto-qualifies for the Unseen Seer without effort.

It is worth picking up a single 1d6 sneak attack die before unseen seer. It doesn't REQUIRE sneak attack to enter, but it DOES require you to have sneak attack to get the 4d6 sneak attack it grants.

[DEMON]

It is worth picking up a single 1d6 sneak attack die before unseen seer. It doesn't REQUIRE sneak attack to enter, but it DOES require you to have sneak attack to get the 4d6 sneak attack it grants.

Yes and yes. Though even if you don't have any SA-giving class, Hunter's Eye can help you from time to time (or can be persisted).

[Fouredged Sword]

Yeah, but outside of the persist cheese, it competes for your swift action with sniper's shot. Sniper's shot allows for true strike chain of eyes sneak attacks at half a mile kill shots using your flying familiar as a spotter.

I loved that on my Rogue 5 / Assassin 1 / Unseen Seer 10 build. He used an owl. He killed silently in the dead of night from far FAR outside vision range. Nobody notices an owl with a tiny pair of spectacles perched on it's beak flying up 500ft.

[Godskook]

First off, here are some handbooks that may help.
The Pokedex Primer to Spellthievery (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=12677)
Jack-Of-All-Trades: Fax Celestis' Guide to Spellthieves (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?44299-Jack-Of-All-Trades-Fax-Celestis-Guide-to-Spellthieves)
Sneak Attacking Spellcasters: God's Shifty-Eyed Cousins (http://bg-archive.minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1240)

Spellthief abilities are linked to class level, however the feat Master Spellthief (CS) can get around some of that in multiclass situations.

As you build stands you miss out on 8th and 9th level spells. That is almost always not a recommended situation for a caster. A more solid Rogue/Caster type build is: Rogue (or Spellthief with the feat Able Learner) 1/ Wizard 5 (Spontaneous Divination ACF) 5/ Unseen Seer 10 (with the Practiced Spellcaster feat)/ Arcane Trickster 4. This set up nets you decent skills, almost full casting (19/20 levels), and decent amounts of sneak attack (especially with the spell Hunters Eye).

Swapping this into a more Daggerspell build:

Spellthief 1/Wizard 4(or 5, I suppose)/Daggerspell Mage X/Unseen Seer Y