ey YO!...who else thinks that Elan IS and always HAS BEEN a badass?

[SkanMan]

I really don't play D&D much, but i have played, i Do know how to play, and I was thinking about possible campaigns. The thought then struck me that OOTS is actually one hell of an involved plot, with involved characters, that are anything but static, while maintaining the hilarity that everyone loves it for. Now, as a big guy with nerdy qualities that raps, I always choose A.) the badass route or B.) the bard route, or C.) The fighter/wizard route when coming up with a character. That being said I have yet to come up with a character that I felt represented me the way I wanted it to, OR be a more than a useless waste of space on a team of adventurers. Elan embodies the character I always wanted to create in so many ways. He's funny, talented with a sword, a magic user, able to woo women (and more than just Haley, if the reader would just refer to the southern newyears), and his charisma gets him out of trouble wherever he goes; people seem to love him. I wish I could have come up with this character, an in every D&D campaign I play for the rest of my LIFE I am going to strive to make this character come to life.

[SurlySeraph]

Badass? Badass? Okay, maybe he's somewhat badass now that he's a Dashing Swordsman, but until he acquired that PrC he was about as badass as a wad of tissue paper. Belkar is badass. Pretty boys are not badass. Would you say Leonardo DiCaprio was badass?

[yoshi927]

Elan? Badass?

In the immortal words of Spongebob, "Is it possible to use those words together in a sentence like that?"



:roy: is badass.

:belkar: is badass.

:elan: is just sad.

[Kurald Galain]

This is a reasonable estimate of the various characters' baddassitude...

:Roy: (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0408.html)

:Vaarsuvius: (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0145.html)

:Belkar: (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0042.html)

:Elan: (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0206.html)

[Deme]

(( the following statements are all opinion, based on my opinion of badass, which differs, apparently, from a lot of definitions))

I'm kind of in the middle, there. It's true -- Elan isn't what I'd call badass, even now. Still...he was never as pathetic as people think. from the perspective of someone who loves bards, I have to say he's not far from what I, too, have always wanted to play. He's always been effective enough to get by(admittably with a very strong team, and as a support-player), and it's true that the campaign he's involved in isn't, in most situations, really the sort where a bard can be badass, so he's fighting an uphill battle in that department. These days, he's gotten even more effective by adding something to his build that makes him more effective in the prominently combat-based situations that the campaign he's in involved.

He's not that weak.


He's even had a few moments of badass (I found the spiraling down to the window thing badass)

Oddly enough, Belkar's only been combat-badass once.

Durkon, in the cliffport fight and Xykon's throneroom, has had at least 2 combat-badassnesses...

and V's been badass with a few spells...

and Roy's gotten 3 different moments of badass. the first being in Xykon's throneroom, the second when he knocked Miko across the room, and the third when he jumped at the dragon.

Working on my loose judgement on badassness, Haley's been the least badass of the order of the stick (she's had a few close spots, but it's just never felt badass to me), Roy seems to qualify for the most...

this being said, badassness does not, to me, automatically mean usefulness or uselessness. It's a more dramatic thing than that.

[Scatman]

BADASSNESSES IS NOT A WORD.
*throws a nuke at anyone saying the word*
Thank you.
And his combat comic with nale was pretty what people would call badass, aside from the puns.
(and badassitude isnt a word either)

[Kjata]

I would compare elan to being slapped with a dead fish. A pain in the ass, but hella funny when you arent the target (when he isnt talking to you, or if you arent the one being slapped with a dead fish).

[LordVader]

Hahahahaha....hahaha...cough cough...wheeze.
Elan was about as badass as much as Xykon was a paladin.
After the PrC, he got a lot more badass, but still not much.

[theinsulabot]

well, i understand what those WORDS mean, but when you string them together they just dont make any sense!

[Athanatos]

Pretty boys are not badass. Would you say Leonardo DiCaprio was badass?

Somebody's never seen The Departed.

[Deme]

BADASSNESSES IS NOT A WORD.
*throws a nuke at anyone saying the word*
Thank you.
...
(and badassitude isnt a word either)

actually, it is. Not a dictionary word, I admit, but by definition of a word, which is to say, "a unit of language, consisting of one or more spoken sounds or their written representation, that functions as a principal carrier of meaning," it qualifies. Unwieldy and unsophisticated, I admit, but the point stands. It has sound (or written representation thereof), and it has meaning. Ergo, a word.

besides, -ness is a perfectly acceptable suffix used to make an abstract noun out of an adjective, and the plural version would have to have an -es.

[Krytha]

......not Me

[Zithuan]

actually, it is. Not a dictionary word, I admit, but by definition of a word, which is to say, "a unit of language, consisting of one or more spoken sounds or their written representation, that functions as a principal carrier of meaning," it qualifies. Unwieldy and unsophisticated, I admit, but the point stands. It has sound (or written representation thereof), and it has meaning. Ergo, a word.

besides, -ness is a perfectly acceptable suffix used to make an abstract noun out of an adjective, and the plural version would have to have an -es.

Badass is both a noun and adjective. e.g. "Belkar is a badass." or "That was toally badass."

Back to Elan though, he could be a heck of a lot more badass if he used his spells effectively. Without going to my PHB or checking d20srd, I know Bards have access to Haste, Mirror Image, Greater Invisibility, Deep Slumber, Charm Monster, and a fair number of other useful spells. On another thread, someone pointed out that he theoretically could have cast Summon Monster IV for a "real" Celestial Lion, but instead he only Major Imaged one. Bard spellcasting is totally Charisma based, so he should have lots of spells per day, and far more spells known than we've seen in the comic.

I was hoping Vaarsuvius would offer more arcane tutoring to boost his effectiveness, but we shall we if 478 was a hint of things to come.

[Grod_The_Giant]

:Belkar: (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0042.html)


Correction: Belkar is Badass (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0439.html)
V (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0183.html) is (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0186.html) Badass=er (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0424.html)

[RAGE KING!]

i think elan is badassitudenessish.

- now thats REALLY not a word.

i think the guy who plays elan, is super-badass.

its like the opposite of me. im not badass (i dance for hells sake!) and my chars are all badass to hell, but they're too badass to go to hell.

[skywalker]

Elan started out as total comic relief. He wasn't a bad-ass to start with. That being said, I think the comparison to Leonardo diCaprio is accurate. He wasn't(and may still not be) a bad-ass, but he is capable of doing bad-ass things when pressured into doing so(Leo in Romeo+Juliet). Elan is not so much a bad ass, as just straight cool. I really think it's awesome that you're calling out Elan's strength, though.

And when I say he's straight cool, I mean that he's not a bad-ass, no. He's not the guy every other guy wants to be. He's not Roy. But he's the guy every girl wants to sleep with. He's dashing, he's loving, and oh, by the way, he can kick ass. But he doesn't go around kicking ass on a regular basis, because that's dumb and silly. He is, I re-iterate, the guy every girl wants to sleep with. Which I think should be grounds for his replacing Roy as the guy every other guy wants to be. I know I'd rather be Elan than Roy.

[Albub]

Elan started out as total comic relief. He wasn't a bad-ass to start with. That being said, I think the comparison to Leonardo diCaprio is accurate. He wasn't(and may still not be) a bad-ass, but he is capable of doing bad-ass things when pressured into doing so(Leo in Romeo+Juliet). Elan is not so much a bad ass, as just straight cool. I really think it's awesome that you're calling out Elan's strength, though.

And when I say he's straight cool, I mean that he's not a bad-ass, no. He's not the guy every other guy wants to be. He's not Roy. But he's the guy every girl wants to sleep with. He's dashing, he's loving, and oh, by the way, he can kick ass. But he doesn't go around kicking ass on a regular basis, because that's dumb and silly. He is, I re-iterate, the guy every girl wants to sleep with. Which I think should be grounds for his replacing Roy as the guy every other guy wants to be. I know I'd rather be Elan than Roy.

Just like me!
but in all honesty, true dat, true dat.

[Kioran]

Elan started out as total comic relief. He wasn't a bad-ass to start with. That being said, I think the comparison to Leonardo diCaprio is accurate. He wasn't(and may still not be) a bad-ass, but he is capable of doing bad-ass things when pressured into doing so(Leo in Romeo+Juliet). Elan is not so much a bad ass, as just straight cool. I really think it's awesome that you're calling out Elan's strength, though.

And when I say he's straight cool, I mean that he's not a bad-ass, no. He's not the guy every other guy wants to be. He's not Roy. But he's the guy every girl wants to sleep with. He's dashing, he's loving, and oh, by the way, he can kick ass. But he doesn't go around kicking ass on a regular basis, because that's dumb and silly. He is, I re-iterate, the guy every girl wants to sleep with. Which I think should be grounds for his replacing Roy as the guy every other guy wants to be. I know I'd rather be Elan than Roy.

If so, I hope Intelligence is not genetic, or I fear for humanity. I for one cannot stand really stupid women for longer than 6 hours - I don´t know how it is on the other side of the fence, but I think for a really intelligent woman that would be equally hard to stand - which is why Elan is with Haley.......

[Quezovercoatl]

Somebody's never seen The Departed.
Or Blood Diamond

But on the topic of Elan’s Badarsenes, before the dashing swordsman class he never did anything that could be called badarse but he was nowhere near as ineffective as he seemed. He never really showed much intelligence but he was good at being a bard.

[RAGE KING!]

elan is a pretty awesome character, so if thats what you mean by badass then yes he is. but if you mean badass like "I rage, power attack for 8d6+14, then use great cleave on another 5 guys, then use my reach weapon to use great cleave on more people, and then get my other weapon which i have size penalties with, but it gives me more reach and i use great cleave etc. until oh look at that i killed 300 greater abyssal basilisks in one round. then elan isnt badass

[GoC]

Elan is about as useful and badass as a sponge (the ones that live in the sea). He wouldn't be able to defeat a CR 7 challenge.

[SweetBB]

... He is, I re-iterate, the guy every girl wants to sleep with. ...

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Whoooee! That's a good one!

That's just like saying that every guy wants to sleep with a lovable brainless busty blonde. Oh wait...er, um...nevermind. :smallredface:

[lokycat]

:elan:BARDS ARE BADASSES:elan:
I think Elan is being severally underplayed(not casting nearly as many spells as he could, not using his Cha skills effectively, not using ANY skill effectively...ext).

I think Elan CAN be a badass...but...this IS Elan were talking about.:smallannoyed:

[I'm da Rogue!]

Elan is about as useful and badass as a sponge (the ones that live in the sea). He wouldn't be able to defeat a CR 7 challenge.

But Spongebob is useful and badass :smallconfused:

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u143/ekithebun/spongebob_poster-jellywatch.jpg

[SurlySeraph]

Somebody's never seen The Departed.

Nope. Nor have I seen Blood Diamond. Though I have seen that Romeo and Juliet DiCaprio was in, my strongest impression of him still comes from Titanic, where (even if he's supposedly a poor Irishman from the mean streets of blah blah blah) he looks like Kevin Federline could take him in a fight.

Back on topic, though: being a Dashing Swordsman makes Elan at least a little badass because he can now fight competently and do awesome stuff like swinging through windows from an airship. However, he certainly was not badass all along.

[Krytha]

Spongebob isn't a sea sponge, he's a sponge that lives in the sea. There's a difference. AND I would bet that Spongebob is MORE useful and badass than Elan, and he's not very useful or badass much more than half of the time.

Sally, on the other hand...

[Ozymandias]

Elan started out as total comic relief. He wasn't a bad-ass to start with. That being said, I think the comparison to Leonardo diCaprio is accurate. He wasn't(and may still not be) a bad-ass, but he is capable of doing bad-ass things when pressured into doing so(Leo in Romeo+Juliet). Elan is not so much a bad ass, as just straight cool. I really think it's awesome that you're calling out Elan's strength, though.

And when I say he's straight cool, I mean that he's not a bad-ass, no. He's not the guy every other guy wants to be. He's not Roy. But he's the guy every girl wants to sleep with. He's dashing, he's loving, and oh, by the way, he can kick ass. But he doesn't go around kicking ass on a regular basis, because that's dumb and silly. He is, I re-iterate, the guy every girl wants to sleep with. Which I think should be grounds for his replacing Roy as the guy every other guy wants to be. I know I'd rather be Elan than Roy.

I have no idea who Leo is, but the closest thing to which Elan can aspire is probably Mercutio, and let me tell you, sir, that Elan is no Mercutio.

Also, saying he doesn't do something because it's dumb and silly is like saying that [icon known for a particular behavior] doesn't [activity typical of that behavior] because it's too [adjective defining that behavior] (I'm not feeling very creative today).

[MR.PIXIE]

Well Elan does look badass while he's angry and holing a rapier, like when he crashed through the window.

[Kreistor]

No, Elan is not badass in any way.

1) He might be able to stand up to Nale in melee now, but he'll never stand up to Thog or any other melee build.

2) He rarely uses his spells. He has plenty now, but we only ever seem to see one type -- illusions.

3) He's a half-elf. It's the weakest race in the book.

4) He's a bard. They aren't good on their own: they make other people good.

Elan appears badass once in a while, but it's an illusion, just like his spell casting. You have to compare the relative strength of the person Elan is fighting, and Elan just doesn't fight the tough guys.

[MR.PIXIE]

2) He rarely uses his spells. He has plenty now, but we only ever seem to see one type -- illusions.



He also has mending( witch he can use to repair the ship)
and animate rope( If a line gets noted or stuck)

[Miraqariftsky]

3) He's a half-elf. It's the weakest race in the book.

4) He's a bard. They aren't good on their own: they make other people good.

Elan appears badass once in a while, but it's an illusion, just like his spell casting. You have to compare the relative strength of the person Elan is fighting, and Elan just doesn't fight the tough guys.

Sorry bub, but I bloody disagree! Elan's a full-blooded human!

Bards make other people better and I believe that The Giant will still be developing Elan's character sometime later in The Plot. Like, have we ever seen him use countersong or sound burst? Surely those will yield good gags?

Sure, he doesn't go toe-to-toe with massive melee mashers, but that's just not what bards were meant to do. Besides, I don't think Elan even needs to be "badass" because merely his being his own man and standing up for himself despite people picking on him is enough for him to be respected and if (not sometimes dignified) in his own manner.

[bluish_wolf]

The reason why is able to woo women is because he isn't badass. He goes for the whole moé approach.

[PaladinFreak]

3) He's a half-elf. It's the weakest race in the book.


Where the heck did you get that? I have never seen any indication of Elan being a Half-Elf.

Also, you are defining badassness as power. I think it is simply a matter of dramatics. For instance, Roy is a pure Fighter, which is just about the weakest build around (excluding crazy stupid multiclass stuff), but he is BADASS.

I agree with your conclusion. Except for in one place (the Elan vs. Nale section), I have not found Elan badass at all.

[....]

Durkon is badass.

That is all.

[Spiky]

But he's the guy every girl wants to sleep with. He's dashing, he's loving, and oh, by the way, he can kick ass. But he doesn't go around kicking ass on a regular basis, because that's dumb and silly. He is, I re-iterate, the guy every girl wants to sleep with. Which I think should be grounds for his replacing Roy as the guy every other guy wants to be. I know I'd rather be Elan than Roy.

I'd rather not be stupid. So I'd still rather be Roy regardless of how many chicks lined up at my bedroom. And frankly, I'd rather sleep with girls who appreciate more than looks, cause I don't like them stupid, either.

Oh and, it's true that Elan can kick ass. Just ass that is well below his level. Unlike say, Miko. Who could kick ass a couple levels above herself.

[skywalker]

I'd rather not be stupid. So I'd still rather be Roy regardless of how many chicks lined up at my bedroom. And frankly, I'd rather sleep with girls who appreciate more than looks, cause I don't like them stupid, either.

Elan is also much, much happier than Roy. Some more food for thought.

SweetBB, your sarcasm is wonderful today. Let me try to emulate: "OH MY GOD SHE'S LOVABLE?! Count me out!!!"(How'd I do? Is that more your type?)

Ozymandias, I was referring to Leonardo diCaprio(Leo)'s character in the modern adaptation of Romeo and Juliet. If your post was sarcasm, I'm sorry, it's late. He(Romeo) gets pissed enough in that movie to drive Tybalt off the road and shoot him then, some hours after Mercutio died.

And isn't it dumb and silly to go around kicking ass all day? Wouldn't it eventually get old?

[Kioran]

Elan is also much, much happier than Roy. Some more food for thought.

SweetBB, your sarcasm is wonderful today. Let me try to emulate: "OH MY GOD SHE'S LOVABLE?! Count me out!!!"(How'd I do? Is that more your type?)

Ozymandias, I was referring to Leonardo diCaprio(Leo)'s character in the modern adaptation of Romeo and Juliet. If your post was sarcasm, I'm sorry, it's late. He(Romeo) gets pissed enough in that movie to drive Tybalt off the road and shoot him then, some hours after Mercutio died.

And isn't it dumb and silly to go around kicking ass all day? Wouldn't it eventually get old?

And getting gonorhea or even Syphillis because one is stupid and having intercourse with equally stupid people will also get old. Elan might be happy, but I´d rather be Roy. Someone has to do the Job. Asses need kicking, and I´ll be damned if the world ends because no one had the brains to do it.
Besides, I like my women with an IQ securely in the three digits. The have a much higher tendency to have strange quirks or light mental defect (like myself, actually), but that doesn´t necessesarily make them less loveable.

[skywalker]

Kioran, the lovability comment was not aimed at you.

Elan also does not actually sleep with anyone. He's just the guy all the girls want to sleep with.

It's because he's sweet, not the looks. Roy's just as good looking, in my opinion...

[John Campbell]

I have no idea who Leo is, but the closest thing to which Elan can aspire is probably Mercutio, and let me tell you, sir, that Elan is no Mercutio.
ROMEO: "Courage, man, the hurt cannot be much."

MERCUTIO: "No, 'tis not so deep as a well, nor so wide as a church-door, but 'tis enough, 'twill serve. Ask for me tomorrow and you shall find me a grave man."

Making jokes about your own mortal wound... that's badass. Elan... not so much.

[Fingolfin]

I guess we can say there is a hidden badass in every one of us, it just needs to be awaken. It has been noted many times before how Rich develops his characters.

We are now on comic #481, times have surly changed, and with time characters change as well. The only difference with Elan and some other guy was that Elan's badass side was awaken while someone else still remains latent.

Tempora mutantus what can you do :smallsmile:

[I'm da Rogue!]

Come on, the always-happy-blonde-handsome-guy is not what all girls want to sleep with. I hope.. :smallconfused:

I know, it's just a stick figure and we can't judge, because we can't see his actual Charisma or appearance, but his stupidity makes me nervous. Haley seems to be satisfied though..
For me, Elan is too happy to be sexy. Roy seems boring too.

But the lil' sexy shoeless god of war... well.. he must be one hell of a lover! :belkar:

[SkanMan]

SO FAR THE ONLY PERSON ON THIS THREAD THAT I LIKE IS DEME!!!! THANK YOU FOR SIDING WITH ME....and scatman...you have a similar name which is cool...oh and your little spoiler thing was BADASSNESS!!!:smallfurious:

[SkanMan]

and for the record, Elan is MOST DEFINITELY a human, lets refer to the sketch the officer made of nale and thog, i saw no pointy ears on nale so why should anyone expect pointy ears on his twin brothers?

[Charles Phipps]

For me, I'd like to point out that I consider Elan to be the star of Order of the Stick.

[Thanatos 51-50]

BADASSNESSES IS NOT A WORD.
*throws a nuke at anyone saying the word*
Thank you.
And his combat comic with nale was pretty what people would call badass, aside from the puns.
(and badassitude isnt a word either)

Does "Badasserey" appease you?

[Yoritomo Himeko]

I really don't play D&D much, but i have played, i Do know how to play, and I was thinking about possible campaigns. The thought then struck me that OOTS is actually one hell of an involved plot, with involved characters, that are anything but static, while maintaining the hilarity that everyone loves it for. Now, as a big guy with nerdy qualities that raps, I always choose A.) the badass route or B.) the bard route, or C.) The fighter/wizard route when coming up with a character. That being said I have yet to come up with a character that I felt represented me the way I wanted it to, OR be a more than a useless waste of space on a team of adventurers. Elan embodies the character I always wanted to create in so many ways. He's funny, talented with a sword, a magic user, able to woo women (and more than just Haley, if the reader would just refer to the southern newyears), and his charisma gets him out of trouble wherever he goes; people seem to love him. I wish I could have come up with this character, an in every D&D campaign I play for the rest of my LIFE I am going to strive to make this character come to life.

I do! I think he is the best character in the whole comic! I can't wait to see him get some more spells and story time.

I never realized he could cast so many different spells. I hope the next arc will deal with this. He is one of the most interesting, funny, and sympathetic characters.

[Lizard Lord]

All the chracters have had Badass moments.

Someone has already mentioned Vaarsuvis, Roy, and Belkar (though I can think of better examples for Belkar and v).

Durkon: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0352.html

Haley: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0470.html

Elan: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0392.html

However, Elan is certainly not badass on a whole. In fact this comic and his fight scene with Nale are the only times he could be considered badass.

But that's not why people love him.

[Krytha]

Roy was plenty happy up until his untimely demise. He had a hot girlfriend, his sword back in one piece, a team that was getting better and a clear path ahead of him. Roy is by far the best rounded person in the OotS. Elan dreams of being like Roy.

[I'm da Rogue!]

Working on my loose judgement on badassness, Haley's been the least badass of the order of the stick (she's had a few close spots, but it's just never felt badass to me)
Haley: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0470.html

Now matter how loose my or your judgement is, we have to admit that she is badass. Oh yeah.

[SweetBB]

SweetBB, your sarcasm is wonderful today. Let me try to emulate: "OH MY GOD SHE'S LOVABLE?! Count me out!!!"(How'd I do? Is that more your type?)

You read me completely wrong. It's the brainless part that is the deterrent. Lovable is nice. However there are plenty of other qualities that take precedence over good looks or charm. Intelligence for starters.

[yoshi927]

Ahem;

Could I call your attention to a few things?

#127 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0127.html)
#4 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0004.html)
#206 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0206.html)
#91 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0091.html)

Badass, folks. Riiiiiiiiiiiiight. :smallannoyed:

[KoySuki]

Your all being so harsh. Elan is stupid, yes:smallsmile: but have you ever though hes a little too stupid? Now we haven't seen to many "stupid" people but the one other then Elan is :thog:. He can't even speek stright common. Being his class and all that expected. Elan on the other hand is more playful stupied (To roy's dismay). Elan at a few point has actuly showen some INT. Like when he was trained in his "dashing hero" class. This actuly helped him alot, alowing him to best his evil halp brother in sword play. Now a stupid person wouldn't beabile to pull that off so easly. Well the point I'm trying to make is yes hes a few points short in the Int part but he knows how to get things done when they need to be done. Even before his "dashing hero" class. So yes I do agree with theis topic Elan is his own way is quite the badass

For all who don't want to read all of that.
:elan: = "Special" Badass

[Mount]

I think Elan's Int is probably average, but his Wis must be in the basement. That said, you can still be pretty awesome with a craptastic Wis.

[PaladinFreak]

But see, Elan is only awesome about 3% of the time. I really like Elan, but his "Awesomeness" is not why.

[yoshi927]

I think Elan's Int is probably average, but his Wis must be in the basement. That said, you can still be pretty awesome with a craptastic Wis.... You're kidding, right? His Int is low. It's not like Xykon, where there's, I don't know, ANY CASE AT ALL for him having Int above 7.