Around what level does Fiery Burst/Acidic Splatter starts being useless?

[RoboEmperor]

I haven't used these reserve feats before, but because my current DM allows retraining I thought I'd give it a go.

At level 3 obviously they're awesome, because running out of spells is a real problem, crossbows are pathetic, and you spend a lot of your time waiting for your party to finish the encounter after you've thrown your BFC out there. In fact these Reserve Feats can completely change your playstyle early game into one that maximizes his AC with spells and just fiery burst/acidic splatter all day long.

But at what level do you people stop using these feats completely on the account of never running out of better standard actions? Level 9? Level 11? Level 7?

Any class is fine, just share your experience :)

[atemu1234]

Pretty much from their inception; by the level they become standard - as... what, +2 enhancements? +3? - a good number of creatures have resistance to their energy type equal to or greater than the average amount of damage they'd do, or even the max, even on a critical. As +1 enhancements, at level 3, it's bad enough.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Acidic Splatter can be good forever if you use it to make sneak attacks, but that takes the right kind of character.

Fiery Burst can stay relevant for quite a while if you've got a spontaneous caster with Heighten Spell and Versatile Spellcaster. At 6th-7th level you make a 4d6 Fiery Burst, at 8th-9th it's 5d6, at 10th-11th it's 6d6, etc. You need to reserve two of your highest level spell slots to accomplish that, but even down to one of those highest level slots (or two of one level below the highest) only reduces the damage by 1d6. You could do better using a bow with a Dragonfire Inspiration-focused Bard nearby, but for a spammable all-day ability it's just as good as a Warlock.

[RoboEmperor]

Pretty much from their inception; by the level they become standard - as... what, +2 enhancements? +3? - a good number of creatures have resistance to their energy type equal to or greater than the average amount of damage they'd do, or even the max, even on a critical. As +1 enhancements, at level 3, it's bad enough.

I have no idea what you are talking about. What is this "enhancement" you speak of?


Fiery Burst can stay relevant for quite a while if you've got a spontaneous caster with Heighten Spell and Versatile Spellcaster. At 6th-7th level you make a 4d6 Fiery Burst, at 8th-9th it's 5d6, at 10th-11th it's 6d6, etc. You need to reserve two of your highest level spell slots to accomplish that, but even down to one of those highest level slots (or two of one level below the highest) only reduces the damage by 1d6. You could do better using a bow with a Dragonfire Inspiration-focused Bard nearby, but for a spammable all-day ability it's just as good as a Warlock.

This is RAI not RAW but debating this would be off-topic :P

From YOUR experience, did you keep using fiery burst at level 10-11, or were you too busy casting BFC, buffs, debuffs, and actual blasting spells that you never had time to use it?

[tiercel]

Personally, I think "useless" is not the best characterization at any level, really.

At low levels, as you say, toss a BFC and then your go-to option can be "little boom, little boom, little boom."

Somewhere between levels 7 and 9 you usually start having a spell available for any *important* round, but there will still be trash random encounters and mop-up rounds where you'd perhaps rather not spend a spell even if you could, but you don't want to stand around doing nothing either.

At higher levels, setting off a Fiery Burst can just entirely replace burning low-level slots for damage during "easy" rounds, which allows you to specialize in more esoteric buffs and utility.

Plus, is being able to set things on fire at will ever useless? ;)

[ryu]

As pointed out I think it best to rephrase it to ''In a game without retraining or dark chaos shuffles, at what level would you regret taking fiery burst?'' The answer to that is going to vary based on how good the rest of the party is at mopping up BFCed stuff and just how hard you're optimizing spells per day/are aloud to dictate rest or strategic action. At the higher end of this spectrum you regret your choice immediately where roughly best conditions for the feat regret starts setting at around seven and is firmly in place at nine. That best place for the feat is me literally working without a party but still having to deal with four encounters per day.

[RoboEmperor]

Ok, seems like the consensus is fiery burst starts to lose its usefulness in combat at level 7 and is no longer used at 9.

[Troacctid]

Remember it also boosts your CL, which is still quite good if you are regularly casting a lot of fire spells. For example: at level 9, it's still giving you an extra 1d6 damage on your fireball; at level 10, it's giving you your last scorching ray a level early; it keeps boosting orb of fire all the way up to level 14; and it never stops giving you an extra attack with scalding touch (that's an extra 13d6 damage there, with an extra save-or-daze attached).

[Cosi]

It's always going to be better than a non-spell attack and worse than a spell (assuming you aren't something like a Gish that optimizes non-spell attacks). But you shouldn't be making very many non-spell attacks even at low levels. By 3rd level you can throw out a sleep, glitterdust, or color spray every encounter for a four-encounter day even if you have only 12 INT and no specialization. If you're the more typical 18 INT specialist, you have almost two spells per encounter (four 1sts, three 2nds). If you're concerned that those spells won't be enough, you'll probably get more value out of being a Gnome Illusionist (which lets you cast silent image as a 0th level spell) or combining Eschew Materials with launch bolt (which lets you make a 4d6 ranged attack with your 0th level spell slots).

[Azoth]

I personally don't regret acidic splatter. Granted I tend to take in Unseen Seer builds so it is an always available means of Sneak Attack. It still has some utility beyond that, as a means of removing evidence or mundane barriers.

I haven't really used first burst outside of some low level games. I enjoyed it there for reasons others have stated. It sure beats a crossbow and I can light things on fire when necessary.

[thorr-kan]

Plus, is being able to set things on fire at will ever useless? ;)
What is "Never!", Alex?

Setting things on fire is *always* the right answer.

[Buufreak]

I have no idea what you are talking about. What is this "enhancement" you speak of?


I believe he is mistaking the elemental burst weapon enchantments with what you are talking about, the reserve feats from... Arcane? Or was it Mage?

[Coretron03]

I believe he is mistaking the elemental burst weapon enchantments with what you are talking about, the reserve feats from... Arcane? Or was it Mage?

Most of them are from complete mage, though I think there are a couple ones scattered outside of it (Complete champion I think has one that applies to the war domain)

[atemu1234]

I have no idea what you are talking about. What is this "enhancement" you speak of?

Whoops, mistook this for a thread on the Flaming Burst and whatever the acidic variant was, actual weapon enhancements.

I was very tired when I made that post.