Potentially Problematic Character Concept

[Brent008]

The concept I have currently is for a character that has a form of mental disability or who is troubled by some form of trauma.
After reading other forums on similar subjects I think what I am looking for might be a character who is on the autism spectrum, though I might accidentally be exaggerating the symptoms of such and other suggestions are welcomed / appreciated.
My concern is that either way I do not want to play the character in a way that is insensitive or that could be perceived as making fun of individuals with such a condition. Most of the forums that I've seen look at theoretical mechanics rather than going over what it means to play such an individual and whether or not such can be done in a respectful way.

As a background:
The particular idea stemmed from the desire for a character that is very Book of Exalted Deeds-esque in terms of being very clearly good, but who avoids the all too common holier-than-thou attitude that I in particular tend to adopt with good characters. I am trying to develop a character who though very good himself is someone who won't cause party friction for any/all of the following reasons: 1) being too timid to stand up to his allies, 2) not quite understanding the consequences of his party members' deeds and/or 3) simply trusting them too much to question the possibility that they might not be doing the right thing.
(Tangent: For those who might wonder based on this paragraph, no the rest of the party is not playing a bunch of evil people, but at least one of the five definitely tends to always end up playing like he's a CN Skyrim-esque murder hobo).

The characters' focus will be on healing and support. My thought for him is having him even healing the enemies slightly to insure that they don't actually die (given permission from the party) and facilitating a capture or knock out vs kill mentality whenever possible.

If I decide to do this I will do significantly more research than I have at this point, and will make sure that the quirks and problems that manifest are as true to reality as is possible. That said, is this even possible? Or is this character concept one that is best left untested?

Let me know what you think. Thank you in advance.

[dps]

The concept I have currently is for a character that has a form of mental disability or who is troubled by some form of trauma.
After reading other forums on similar subjects I think what I am looking for might be a character who is on the autism spectrum, though I might accidentally be exaggerating the symptoms of such and other suggestions are welcomed / appreciated.
My concern is that either way I do not want to play the character in a way that is insensitive or that could be perceived as making fun of individuals with such a condition. Most of the forums that I've seen look at theoretical mechanics rather than going over what it means to play such an individual and whether or not such can be done in a respectful way.

As a background:
The particular idea stemmed from the desire for a character that is very Book of Exalted Deeds-esque in terms of being very clearly good, but who avoids the all too common holier-than-thou attitude that I in particular tend to adopt with good characters. I am trying to develop a character who though very good himself is someone who won't cause party friction for any/all of the following reasons: 1) being too timid to stand up to his allies, 2) not quite understanding the consequences of his party members' deeds and/or 3) simply trusting them too much to question the possibility that they might not be doing the right thing.
(Tangent: For those who might wonder based on this paragraph, no the rest of the party is not playing a bunch of evil people, but at least one of the five definitely tends to always end up playing like he's a CN Skyrim-esque murder hobo).

The characters' focus will be on healing and support. My thought for him is having him even healing the enemies slightly to insure that they don't actually die (given permission from the party) and facilitating a capture or knock out vs kill mentality whenever possible.

If I decide to do this I will do significantly more research than I have at this point, and will make sure that the quirks and problems that manifest are as true to reality as is possible. That said, is this even possible? Or is this character concept one that is best left untested?

Let me know what you think. Thank you in advance.

I'll leave it to others to answer the questions of sensitivity and respectfulness, but to be honest that background doesn't sound like it would require your character to have any sort of mental illness or defect. You're basically suggesting that you're going to try to play a milquetoast or wimp.

[aberratio ictus]

I'll leave it to others to answer the questions of sensitivity and respectfulness, but to be honest that background doesn't sound like it would require your character to have any sort of mental illness or defect. You're basically suggesting that you're going to try to play a milquetoast or wimp.

Very much this, actually. I wouldn't necessarily word it so negatively. A young, very naive person would work as well, especially if they have links to another character as an apprentice or squire or similar.

[RazorChain]

@Brent008

What you describe isnt autism. Its being a naive, timid and symPathetic to a fault.

[KillianHawkeye]

TIL being good-hearted, nonviolent, trusting, and having a total lack of assertiveness is considered a mental illness by some ppl. :smallsigh::smallsigh::smallsigh:

Also, that these traits are apparently rare enough that someone would need roleplaying tips to just be a nice person? :smallsigh::smallmad:

[Agrippa]

Lacking assertiveness doesn't make you a good or nice person, it makes you a doormat. Also, there is such a thing as being overly trusting. I'd also argue that timidity isn't a virtue by any means.

[War_lord]

I've got Autism, albeit the high functioning Asperger's kind, and I do have a problem with this concept. To be blunt, you've essentially outlined Lenny from "Of Mice and Men". Developmental disorder doesn't mean doormat. Now low functioning individuals can exhibit that kind of personality, but they've also got a whole bunch of other stuff going on that precludes the Adventurer lifestyle.

[Lord Raziere]

TIL being good-hearted, nonviolent, trusting, and having a total lack of assertiveness is considered a mental illness by some ppl. :smallsigh::smallsigh::smallsigh:


1. autism isn't an illness, at least not for the high-functioning ones.

2. I agree, those traits don't mean your autistic. autism is about primarily a lack of social awareness and related parts often with certain weird senses due to different brain wiring at birth. this can be helped through education like any skill for most of the high functioning ones. this doesn't mean the person is any of those things, I am a high-functioning autistic and what I know from meeting others like me that each one has their own personality and some can be tough and have prickly exteriors.

3. though I do admit, I do like to avoid violence, I do try to be kind, and a lot of autism education is about learning to be assertive and speak up about your needs, and I have been called gullible by my brother at times, but I do try to be perceptive and not trust everything I hear or see, so while I wouldn't say that autistic people are necessarily always having these traits, there is some correlation, though they can be taught out of them like anyone.

4. and yes you can technically say that low functioning autistics are more like an illness or whatever, but the important thing is to respect them as people and support their decisions of what to keep and what to improve about themselves to make them feel comfortable regardless. semantics is less important than how they want be supported and helped.

5. and I agree, being those traits shouldn't be considered a mental illness regardless.

6. technically yes, people on the spectrum have been said to have a higher amount of empathy when they realize they did something wrong or whatever, but I wouldn't generalize this, as the only real best summation of autism is "once you met one autistic person, you've met one autistic person."

7. nonviolence isn't really indicative of anything, in my opinion. I imagine a lot of people are nonviolent, simply because they don't want to fight and feel pain. I'd be more concerned about someone being violent.

8. so while there is SOME truth to this, I wouldn't stereotype along such a thing, because autistic people are people first and autistic second. Its best to be understanding and educated about this sort of thing, and while I can't speak for all of them, I'm happy as I am as an autistic person and I grow and develop like any other human being, just not exactly the same way. I just want to clear myths up about the condition, to better educate and whatnot. there have been atrocities committed in the past out of ignorance over this sort of thing, best to be avoided yes?

this is just your friendly neighborhood Raziere, bringing you education about an issue near an dear to their heart. :smallsmile:

[daniel_ream]

What you're describing is just what we used to call "Lawful Stupid", not autistic.

[Brent008]

I appreciate the feedback.
After reading what you all have said I'm thinking I probably won't go with the original concept, if I salvage any parts of it at all.

The base desire I originally had is one that can probably be achieved via someone with extreme shyness and/or very low self-confidence. The suggestion of having an apprentice type relationship with another player could prove fruitful as well.

If you were at all offended by the concept I apologize. I will go ahead and scrap that idea.

[RazorChain]

I think no one was offended. There are just a lot of people here that know more about autism than you and the best they can do is educate you to promote not only awareness but acceptance.


Playing a naive, gullible and timid character is just fine as long as you are having fun

[Deliverance]

I appreciate the feedback.
After reading what you all have said I'm thinking I probably won't go with the original concept, if I salvage any parts of it at all.

The main problem is that your full character concept is one that is already well known and beloved - the healbot. Usually encountered in RPGs and CRPGs as a NPC added to ensure healing availability, because somebody that bland just doesn't need a personality, and it is easier for everybody else that way.

There are people who have the personality of a doormat, but it is usually due to being repeatedly trod upon and ground down by nasty life experiences or having decided to go with the flow and avoiding responsibility.

It might be fun to play for a while, but odds are that either you or the rest of the group would grow tired of it rapidly.

So if you do want to play a naive, gullible and timid character... please a) ensure you have the rest of the group's buy-in first, and b) don't always use naivety, gullibility, and timidity as an excuse for avoiding action and leaving all decisions to the rest of the group; you'll have the perfect excuse for doing so, but don't do it. Be more than a doormat and occasionally stand up for something.

[Lemmy]

There are a lot of "Don't"s, here... How about some "Do"s?

Now... If one wants to write or roleplay a high-functioning autistic character... How should he do it? What are good ways to portray autism without having it look like a parody or caricature?

[Lord Raziere]

Now... If one wants to write or roleplay a high-functioning autistic character... How should he do it? What are good ways to portray autism without having it look like a parody or caricature?

Do's.....hmm.....

this is delicate, so bear with me.

Do's of playing High-Functioning Autistic:
-Remember that the condition is primarily most visible during childhood and teenage years. thats why its autism and not schizoid personality disorder, which is a similar condition but supposedly starts in adult years. a fully adult autistic could've learned to act perfectly normally in a social setting without much trouble as long as they have the right education.
-the condition's primarily about a lack of social awareness. some autistic people can be quite persuasive and eloquent when they got talking while at the same time not having any idea if what they're saying is appropriate. a high charisma autistic is perfectly possible, they just wouldn't be good at reading the social situation. this eloquence is most likely to come out when talking about their area of interest.
-an autistic whose educated to act "normal" or "neurotypical" can indeed pull it off, just remember that they don't have as much social energy in a sense- they tire more easily from social functions, and thus don't have the patience or energy for long arguments, especially if they're stressful ones, a good moment to portray might be them being tired after a long stressful discussion
-they would not see the point of any social function by itself. have them comment that they simply don't see the point in ceremonies, etiquette, parties, celebrations, or restating things that people have already said, and simply have them miss symbolic gestures. me, I still don't see the point in many things people consider vital social functions, and don't socialize for the sake of socializing- an autistic can socialize mind you, they just do it within their area of interest because its familiar. they don't have to be rude about it, they jsut have to be confused as to why its happening when it seems pointless.

Example: like if we're playing an autistic adventurer, lets say their area of interest is adventuring itself. how I'd play it, is that they probably know a lot about adventuring from what they've read, what to prepare for adventuring, the names of various famous adventurers and how they did this and that to succeed, and that they'd talk enthusiastically about adventuring when they meet other adventurers because they know adventuring as well and thus connect with them about why they adventure, how they adventure and so on.

but then outside of adventurers suddenly things become different. they don't know if a common villager would find anything they talk about interesting and thus would be unsure of how to talk to non-adventurers, and if a non-adventurer talks about a subject that doesn't have to do with adventure, they'd listen but they wouldn't know what to think of it very much if it doesn't interest them and be mostly like "yeah, ok.....whatever." and if they attempted to try and be interested in whatever, they'd probably say something overly blunt or sarcastic about the subject outside their interest which wouldn't go over well. things like that. and they'd probably not be as excited.

-give them a couple sensory quirks, I don't know any autistic person that didn't have one, but none of them are the same: many are startled by loud noises, but some dislike certain textures, and so on, all because of difficulty processing them. these should hinder them too much, just give them some minor sensory they don't like or can't stand for flavor. like a mage who wears robes that of different materials to all the others because they don't like the normal cloth used, or a warrior who designed his armor in a certain way so that he doesn't have to hear the clanking, just as random examples.

-remember: when an autistic person says something honest but lacks social nicety, they probably didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings, and just thought that the truth would be best to state to solve the problem. at the same time, autism is not an excuse for being a jerk. so remember when stating something honestly, have the best of intentions, and be genuinely confused and sorry if they said something wrong.

-to look at it another way: imagine a foreigner, but without a home culture. like, an autistic person is like a foreigner who has never been to any other country. outside their own interests, they find THEIR OWN CULTURE strange and mystifying. If I had to sum up an autistic person I'd say "foreigner without a home culture." Like go to another culture but one where you can speak the language, now try to find all the things your familiar with in that culture while enduring people speaking the different lingo and slang, trying the food your not familiar with, and being comfortable in the way your used to, and dealing with their different views, and see social events you don't see the point of, and so on and so forth. now imagine that experience but with your entire life and no home country to compare any of it to- thats the high functioning autistic person experience. or that their little familiar sanctuary alone is their home culture and that anything outside of it is foreign. because I tell you; I find EVERY culture strange.

[War_lord]

Now... If one wants to write or roleplay a high-functioning autistic character... How should he do it? What are good ways to portray autism without having it look like a parody or caricature?

I would say simply don't. If you want to play an adventurer who has traits that could be linked to Autism that's fine, fiction does that all the time. But the second you say "This character has autism" we're getting into issues of portrayal and stereotypes. Even if you sit down with someone with the condition and go over the character's entire personality, that doesn't mitigate the issue since you'll jst end up with a representation of the condition as it applies to the one individual you interviewed.

[Lord Raziere]

I would say simply don't. If you want to play an adventurer who has traits that could be linked to Autism that's fine, fiction does that all the time. But the second you say "This character has autism" we're getting into issues of portrayal and stereotypes. Even if you sit down with someone with the condition and go over the character's entire personality, that doesn't mitigate the issue since you'll jst end up with a representation of the condition as it applies to the one individual you interviewed.

Yes, alternatively, this is good advice, might be better than mine honestly. again "once you've met one autistic person, you've met one autistic person" the very nature of the condition is one that produces individuals that you can make little if any generalization about, as the condition is just traits that all people have just in abundance that most people do not. accurate portrayals are hard to define.

I mean, I could technically interpret a lot of characters in fiction as being high functioning autistic or having autistic traits to some degree, whether intended or not. its not really a condition of limits and boundaries, especially since psychology is full of blurry lines like this anyways, and has those pesky interactions with cultures and other neurotypical individuals who are just as unique, and so on. that and there are other conditions that also have lack of social awareness as a major symptom like ADD or ADHD, that could also be there or not be there prominently depending on the person's personality. its a complex thing. and thats not getting into the potential problem of someone having MULTIPLE issues like autism AND ADD and something else, while also showing someone managing the issues.

because if someone successfully manages the issues and has a good life with their condition....ideally, other people don't even KNOW they did it, because they'll just see them being socially normal and successful like anyone else. its a very complicated issue where you try to improve yourself so that your condition isn't a problem while also advocating for that mental issue being perfectly fine and acceptable to support and help. Like I know the condition causes problems, that I have to improve myself to work in society, but the condition isn't really bad or needs to go away if that makes sense, because its just a part of me, of who I am. so yeah.....hard to generalize and may be better to not portray them as explicitly autistic at all.

[RazorChain]

There are a lot of "Don't"s, here... How about some "Do"s?

Now... If one wants to write or roleplay a high-functioning autistic character... How should he do it? What are good ways to portray autism without having it look like a parody or caricature?


As Lord Raziere has already said, if you know one autist, then you know one autist. Somebody with autism is always a person first and an autist second and as a person is just as varied as neurotypical. I've read a lot of books on the subject and nothing of it compares exactly to my personal experience, just like my 3 children who are all diagnosed with autism aren't like me in personality though some traits overlap.

Special interests: Me and my son are heavily into special interests while my 2 daughters aren't. If given the chance my son would talk your ear off, I'm grown man and have the good sense of not opening my trap unless somebody shares my interest. Special interest can range from really weird to practical, one autist I know is interested in car engine sounds and can recognize cars just by the sound of their engines. Why special interests? Because autists kinda become obsessed with their interests and go very deep and memorize all the details

Sensory Issues: This can range from textures in food to clothes and can cause problems with wearing certain clothes and eating certain food. That small washing label in the inside the collar of your shirt, well it would drive me to violence. DON'T TOUCH THE FACE OR I'LL KILL YOU....I'm getting better in that regard....training and conditioning helps...and having kids that don't know social boundaries. My son for example may feel a light touch painful, I on the other hand have incredible high pain threshold and my daughter as well (she walked around with a broken hand for 3 days as a kid without complaining). Certain sounds and bright light can cause issues, luckily I don't have that but my son does.

Social Awareness: The things you pick up automatically, people with autism don't. Often they have a hard time reading facial expression, reading social situations, knowing personal boundaries and tend to put their foot in their mouths a lot of times. My wife stomps on my foot when I put my foot in my mouth in social situations :) Autists often have a hard time lying or are very bad liars when they try.

Logical to a fault. As most of the things I list, this doesn't affect all autists. Why should I eat something I don't like? Why should I do something that isn't fun? Why should I pee into the toilet when I can just whip it out in the schoolyard and pee here...it saves me the trouble of going inside? Why should I learn this when I don't find it interesting?
This ties into lot of things...like if an autist doesn't see the point in doing something....then he/she won't.

Unpredictability and uncertainity. Most autist want to have a strict routine and boundaries to their life (or at least those who I know). Home we use visual aids to organize the day for the kids so they know how their day will be. Some have perseveration, an inability or impairment in switching tasks or activities often calles Set-Shifting as well. It can lead to problems changing activities.

Self Stimulation or stimming. Self-stimulatory behavior refers to repetitive body movements or repetitive movement of objects. Me and 2 of my children do this, most pronounced in my son, when he gets excited will waves his hands in front of his face and does an ummmm ummmmm sounds.


This is just a fraction of things.