Career Management: Wizard - Can I become what I have in mind?

[Wasum]

Hello there masters of wizardry!

I am going to play RotR soon and I have to admit I'm really struggeling. But lets start with what's cut in stone:

I want to play a diviner, schroedinger style. I want him to be versatile, always having a trick up his sleeve, subtile most of the time and making use of interesting spell combinations (e.g. using blood money). Also - and thats what I picked the diviner - I want so survive. I don't want to dominate all combats especially not by myself. I want to control pace and intensity of the fight but in a subtile way that lets my party shine as well. He will adventure along a shamen, an investigator, a dwarven slayer and probably a monk (hopefully unchained...). Also I want to be able to summon but not focus on summon spells as those tend to slow down the game most of the time.
The character is actually a historian (focused on Thassilion) from Magnimar who was once asked to help the cyphermages in Riddleport where he got to know a wizard who convinced him to give the arcane arts a try. So when the game starts he will already be some older investigating sandpoints ruins acompanied by a scorpion familiar which disgusts him.

His stats will be: 7/14/12/20/14/8

Where I need help now is feats and traits. This is giving me a surprisingly hard time, especially because I kinda want to have both: broad versitality and a focus on some kind of "preferred spell" which could be used to fill those subpar divination slots.

What I came up with so far:

1 Improved Initiative, Additional Traits (human), Scribe Scroll (bonus)
2
3 Craft Wodrous Items
4
5 Heighten Spell, Preferred Spell (Battering Blast)
6
7 Improved Familiar
8
9 Persistent Spell
10 Craft Rod (bonus)
11 Quicken Spell

I took Preferred Spell (Battering Blast) because I think the spell is versatile for a blast, its pretty powerful and has a thassilion offspring which makes it fit perfectly in the character design.
But I have some doubts on whether this is actually a good idea. I did not focus heavily in increasing CL which usually is the way to make Battering Blast so good and I dont want to spend all my feats in doing so. Right now I'm afraid I will have a hard time hitting, overcoming SR and making the maneuver because I did not invest much in these areas. Also the metamagic feats I picked synergize not that amazing with the spell. Highten Spell is a feat tax, Persistent Spell is okay but more usefull on area spells or SoS's. Quicken is cool later though.

In short: I just dnt know whether picking Battering Blast as preferred spell is a great choice at all.

I wanted to focus more on conjuration spells which is why I thought about changing battering blast to ice spears and getting spell focus conjuration in there somehow... but yeah... I just dont find myself able to make a destinct decision.

The feats I considered in addition to those mentioned above are:

- Spell Focus, Spell Spec. and Greater Spell Spec.
But those have three problems: First it takes 3 slots, second I had to increase casting time to buff my spell with metamagic and third, I would need to pick spell focus evocation if I wanted to sick to battering blast - a school I did not plan to utilize much (other than conjuration).

- Reach Spell
I love reach spell as you wont get all its awesomeness out of a rod. It just doesnt fit in.

- Dazing Spell
I am kinda afraid it might be too powerful. As I said - I dont want to dominate encouters all by myself and this feat is definitly in danger of doing so.

- Craft Wand
Just in order to provide my improved familiar with ammunition!

- Spell Penetration
For obvious reasons

- Opposition Research
Because The only school I really dont want is enchantment... and even there I'm gonna miss Confusion.

For traits I considered:

- Outlander (Lore Seeker)
This offers my preferred spell and two more +1 DC/CL. Most non-blast-spells only profit from one of those bonusses which makes it hard to actually pick spells here...

- Reactionary
Again - obvious reasons

- Seeker
Having perception as class skill is just wonderful

- Magic Lineage
In case I stick to some kind of preferred spell I'd be stupid not to pick this trait

- Scholar of the Ancients
This fits perfectly to my background and being able to read and write thassilon seems to be pretty sweet in this campaign.

So for now I'd really appreciate to get some help. I know this is just about some details but somehow its giving me a hard time. I'm open to anykind of idea or critique - I just really want to make tgis well rounded character thats powerful on one hand and merges well into the campaign on the other.

Thank you in advance for taking the time of reading this, thank you even more for taking your time to reply!

Wasum :)

[khadgar567]

here is the question batman or god aka get your paws dirty or let fighter handle every thing with your info?

[Geddy2112]

For stats, consider swapping your con and wis scores. You don't need super high wisdom with will being a strong save, but you need all the con/HP you can get. Remember, your familiar's HP depends on yours. When you say diviner, that means you chose the divination school? With that, improved initiative, and reactionary, you will almost always go first. Diviner's fortune is an incredible skill boost out of combat, and a good in combat option at lower levels or if you run out of spells(or run out of useful spells).

Battering blast is cool thematically, but ice spears is much stronger mechanically. I would not worry about battering blast missing; it goes for touch AC which is usually pretty easy to hit. Likewise, the bull rush is based off your INT score, making it pretty reliable in that department. Ice spears are much stronger; their damage is higher off the bat, and battering blast only edges them out slightly at level 10. They don't roll to hit, and you can stack them to get a major bonus on the trip. You get more spears than blasts (1 per 4 levels vs 1 per 5) and they have a 10ft AoE. Best of all, they remain as cover and obstacles for battlefield control. The major downside is they can't be used against flying things unless they are close to the ground.

I am not sure preferred spell is worth it at all, but ice spears/battering blast does compete for a slot that haste needs, and by the look of your party and character concept, haste is usually your opening play. It is kind of boring casting the same spell over and over again, but barring very high levels, it is one of the best opener's you have available. At higher levels, you could quicken/contingency haste as well. Depending on how much cash you are rolling in, you can make scrolls of haste and have your familiar cast this. Taking heightened spell is not totally useless, but I agree it is a hard pill to swallow.

You don't need spell penetration until much higher levels, but it is a feat worth considering. Persistent spell is good, consider extend spell at higher levels too to make buffs an all day affair, although this might be worthy of a rod. I don't think having craft wand is needed, as your familiar will have 2-3 wands they need max, otherwise just give them some scrolls and call it good. You can buy the 2-3 low level wands or have them use whatever extra things you find. Consider the arcane builder discovery to increase your crafting time; not only the 25% increase, but the +4 in spellcraft helps speed things up as well. Alchemical affinity is a great way to increase the CL/DC of a lot of spells, great to stack on some of your outlander choices.

If you want to craft, the hedge magician (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/magic-traits/hedge-magician/) trait saves 5% on GP cost of crafting, which really adds up and RAW is the only way to make money crafting. You won't be able to stack the arcana bonus from outlander and scholar of the ancients, but I am aware this is just icing on the cake and you are taking these traits for the CL and language.

Overall, you might want to consider making evocation an opposition school, as enchantment spells can buff your allies(heroism) and you don't really need/want to cast blasts(and conjuration has plenty good damage BFC).

[Florian]

@Wasum:

This is RotRL, so it´s very "classic", in the sense that it is very combat heavy, very dungeon heavy, uses rather small battle maps and each section uses very thematic enemies. So expect to manage your resources over longer stretches, little downtime for real crafting and shopping only in-between the dungeons (And forget about blood money, your gm will kill you).

I´d advise you towards an Elf (Arcane Focus ART) Diviner5/Cyphermage 1+ for your base build, with Illusion and Necromancy as opposite schools. For Cypher Lore, focus on those that help you with scrolls, first, giants, glyphs and everything thassilonian second. Traits, you already have Scholar of the Ancients, take Warrior of Old or Forlorn second.

This AP favors a "classical" spell selection, so the gamut of regular BFC spells (Grease, Glitterdust, Web, Black Tentacles..), supplemented by Charm/Dominate, buffs like Haste/Heroism. What´ll also come in handy is Chains of Light.

Consider what I wrote earlier about the relatively small bettlemaps and mostly dungeon environment. Don´t shy away from a very old-school and basic feat selection, beginning with Toughness, Improved Initiative and Combat Casting, as well as Cypher Magic for PrC prerequisites. You´ll have time for more fancy feats like Craft Rod, Heighten Spell, and so on, later.

[Wasum]

Thank you for those ideas, that actually helped me a lot!

Towards my stats: I am using PB 20 but adjusted them to old age category. How would you distribute them instead? Getting con to 14 seems kinda expensive actually...

I dont want to play a cypher mage actually because my character just does not like capher mages at all after spending time in riddleport. Im also set on human as I already wrote my background.

I followed your advice and just kept craft wondrous (as RotR wont offer that many opportunities to craft anyway) - my setup so far is:

1 Imp. Ini, Spell Focus (Conjuration)
2
3 Craft Wondrous Items
4
5 Spell Specialization (Ice Spears), Persistent Spell
6
7 Improved Familiar (Larakien or Faerie Dragon, dunno)
8
9 Greater Spell Specialization (Ice Spears)
10 Opposition Research (Necromancy)
11 Quicken Spell


I wanted to pick greater spell spec. in order to use my divination slots with useful spells just in case - I even thought about picking a second spell spec.
Ice Spears therefore is going to be my primary offensive spell. Sadly I cannot fit in reach or rime spell and have to fall back on rods for those. It will be difficult to find a slot for a third metamagic feat to qualify for spell perfection in general...

Now the other thing is - I picked two traits only, outlander and magic lineage because Im starving for feats. Thats why I dont know whether the investment in Ice Spears is really worth it. But right now I'm thinking about what to do with magic lineage and I see two options:
i) Pick Ice Spears as well and apply quicken and persistent.
ii) Pick Glitterdust in order to throw out persistent Glitterdust pretty early. Using outlander and spellfocus it should have a fairly high DC.

Thing is - I dont know whether Glitterdust is a great spell for spell perfection later. But I couldn't think of something that will find use on most enemies I expect to meet. Slow has been another contender but to be a good choice for spell perfection I wanted the spell to be useful more than once per combat.
That is why Ice Spears sounds pretty good - I'd be able to spontaneously cast it and therefore was able to abuse the feat constantly. On the other hand I did not want to focus that badly on a spell that will be useless against flying enemies. And I didnt find a way around that...
I also considered chains of light - thanks for the hint! Using Spell Perfection I would be able to quicken CoL (as long as I have Magic Lineage as well) and cast another persistent one. But that would come online really, really late...


Oh and I picked Foresight as my subschool because prescience will enable me to pick those spells requiring a d20 right when I know I will land them.

What do you think so far?

[Geddy2112]

If you are old, 14 con will be pretty hard to achieve. Really, it comes down to how low you are willing to dump your strength. I would probably go with 6/13/12/20/10/9, adjusted for old(-3 physical +2 mental) and +2 human into intelligence. You could dump strength to 4 and boost dex or con up to 14 and leave the other at 12.

If you are going ice spears and making it your magical lineage feat, I would take rime spell over persistent spell right off the bat. Saving against ice spears prevents being knocked prone and halves damage. If a creature takes any cold damage from ice spears with rime spell, they are entangled for 3 rounds. Being prone is bad, but entangled for 3 rounds is arguably worse and a creature could be hit by both. The problem is it is only 2d6 cold and resistance 5 can often eat that, while resistance 10 almost always will, negating the ability to entangle.

For your improved familiar, the lyrakien azata is hands down better than the dragon. It has better resistances, truespeech is on par with telepathy for universal translation, way better SLA's in both DC, quality, and namely, commune. Better skill ranks, a worse blast than the breath but it has better range and both have a weak DC anyways, and traveler's friend negating fatigue/exhaustion is great.

I question taking necromancy as opposition research-why not oppose evocation if you need necromancy so badly? Or just let it be an opposed school. False life is an incredibly good necromancy spell for wizards, but you can live without the rest. Instead of opposition research you should be taking a second metamagic feat at level 10.

Glitterdust is okay, but the blinding effect is more an icing on the cake-it is mainly a no save blast to ping invisible creatures(or even really stealthy ones). I don't think it is worth spell perfection, but you might metamagic it now and again.

[Wasum]

Oh, I'm sorry - I meant I'm going to start at middle age - thus 14 con is achievable but still hard to fit in.


So your general advice is to focus on ice spears even though it has some major weaknesses (cold resistance, flying)? This actually feels pretty good on one hand as it solves my struggle of selecting a spell... I'd just have to hope I wont meat too many enemies I wont be able to attack with ice spears.

The other thing is - if I took rime spell at 5 instead of persistent then I would have to wait until 10 for the persistent spell fat unless I also delay improved familiar (which I think will provide even more to the game) or greater spell specialization which I'd love to have "early" to be able to improve my divination slots (even though it will always cost a full action to cast when using rime spell... what again lowers the attractiveness of this combination...).

And yea - dropping evocation might be a good choice. I dont like the school anyway and necromancy will offer some more useful stuff.


Lyrakien is sold as well :D

[Geddy2112]

At middle age with 20 pt buy you can easily score 14 con. I would go 6/14/14/18/12/8 before your +2 in whatever, probably INT but I could see putting that into dex as well.

Even though ice spears is not perfect, it is really good. While it is not perfect for every situation, it is useful in a lot of situations. You are a wizard, you can prepare specialty spells for the situations ice spears cannot handle. If the enemies resist cold, just buff your allies and let them kill it, or summon monsters, or use something that does not do cold damage to harm/debuff. Same goes for flying-you can cast fly on yourself/allies, or debuff it, or summon flying monsters, or shoot it with magic.

Delaying persistent spell is not the end of the world, although depending on how many spells you take that force saves it might be more important than rime. A good choice for rime spell is snowball- a rimed snowball entangles and staggers an enemy on top of damage, which is a de facto death sentence. If you are going for enchantment debuffs/control spells or other nasty save or suck's, then you might want persistent earlier in the build. It is more expensive than rime, and rime entangles without a save. I agree you should take the improved familiar and get it some wands/scrolls over a metamagic feat.

Even for the non evil wizard, necromancy has so many good options while evocation just offers blasting, and for a god wizard blasting is recreational.

[cullynthedwarf]

A level one only feat that I adore, when I play a wizard is Collegiate Wizard. You did your early training in a professional school that has given you access to a much broader range of spells. Complete Advance pg 181.

Mechanically it doubles the spells you get per level. At level one you get six in stead of three, at level two you get four in stead of two yada yada yada.

Just a thought.

[Wasum]

As I won't be able to pick 3.5 feats, Collegiate Wizard is not an option.

@stats: yeah that sounds good. Strength 6 is a little scary but in the end shouldn't matter at all. If I decide to get 16 dex I'd just start 16/16 to save two points... on the other hand 20 int at level one is pretty sweet...


@Ice Spears: So you don't think its a problem that I will always need full actions to cast my rime ice spears? I am a little afraid I will avoid using those feats because of that... the alternative would be to just ignore greater spell spec (and maybe even spell spec) in order to get more general feats... argh - this is really hard to evaluate...

Is Spell Spec + Greater Spell Spec + Rime Spell that much batter than regular Ice Soears and a rod of rime spell to justify investing 3 feats...? Probably the answer is yes as soon as I get spell perfection. But I just don't know about the earlier levels...

[Geddy2112]

Once you have a handy haversack strength is irrelevant. Your CMB is going to be so bad that anything halfway dedicated to combat maneuvers is going to get you anyways, the best defense there is don't get attacked.

If you are spontaneously casting rime ice spears then yes, it is a full round, but there is no reason you can't just prepare rime ice spears. Although a rod of lesser rime is dirt cheap and assuming 4 combats a day, in each of which you fire off ice spears a maximum of once, that leaves you one combat where you have to do something else with all of your other spell slots. Probably better off saving the feats, and maybe not even going into spell specialization-also you can grab your metamagic feats at higher levels when you are about to get spell perfection, instead of starting at level 5.

If you are going to be using spell perfection, there are better feats than rime spell to throw on it, but at that point you are a god so it does not really matter.

[Wasum]

The question then is - if I forget about Spell Spec.:
Should I still pick Ice Spears for my Magical Lineage (and later Spell Perfection)? And what should I do about those free feat slots? Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus? Something else?


You're really helping me out so far, I'm really thankful!

[Geddy2112]

You certainly can still spell perfect and magical lineage ice spears, but you could just as easily not. You could magical lineage a lower level spell, or take another trait altogether and say screw it to spell perfection, or pick something zany to quicken. I mean, but the time you have spell perfection you are a 15th level wizard and the things you can do are borderline limit to your imagination, and once you get 9th level you can godmode until the DM throws a book at you.

So the question becomes, what do you WANT to do? As is, focusing on ice spears and being able to rifle off your divination slots is pretty good, but so are so many other things. For a damage/BFC/maneuver spell, it is one of the better ones with a lot of utility and potential for metamagic. You still have a ton of other spell slots and options.

For other feats, you still probably want a couple metamagic feats. Spell penetration is good at higher levels when things start getting SR, and spell focus(whatever) is never bad for something you cast a lot of. Also, since you have spell focus(conjuration) augment summons is a good choice.