Speeding up Combat?

[egglegg]

We just finished our first campaign, and while my players insist they all enjoyed it very much, they all agreed that the combat seemed to drag on.

Now partially this is their own fault as none of them really roll played in combat encounters. Most of the time they went "I hit him with my sword" and rolled. Which is fine, but ultimately I'd have liked to see some more flavour from them.

But, other than encouraging more descriptive attacks (which would only draw out fight sequences seeing as people would be taking longer on their own turns) how can I make the average combat encounters go by faster?

[Emay Ecks]

Some things I do:

-Have enemies surrender/retreat. The party gets ambushed by 10 bandits. Or tigers. It doesn't matter. Even dumb creatures, upon noticing that half of their numbers are dead and that none of their prey have fallen (and are somehow magically healing, too) will try to run or lay down their weapons and surrender. This way the party only actually needs to clear half an encounter before combat ends. And it feels more realistic.

-Lie about enemy hp totals. I may know this enemy has 120 hp, but the party has been wailing on it for 3 turns, it's not able to get past the hasted fighter's AC, and all of it's minions have already been defeated. It's not gonna be able to effectively do anything else. So I'm just gonna pretend it has less max hp than it actually does and let the next blow kill it. The players will never know.

-Use weaker enemies, but have them ambush the party. They get off a surprise round, dealing a lot of unreciprocated damage to the party. The party is scared and quickly burns resources, but it wouldn't matter anyways. The enemies are well below the party's CR and can be quickly mopped up. They just seemed like a real threat because of that free round of damage.

-Just have less combat. Have more puzzles, role playing, skill challenges, etc. Combat should be roughly 1/3 of your game, or less. In both games I run, combat ends up taking up maybe 20% of the game, tops. Players love it, they get to roleplay plenty, and they still feel special. This can include means of skipping fights entirely. Have the goblins they are about to fight be willing to just not attack them if the party makes a successful intimidate roll. Let the evil wizard be in a hurry, and will ask the party if they will just leave him alone, because he's busy.

[Easy_Lee]

Hard to say without knowing which parts are slow.

Are your players asking a lot of questions in combat? Limit them to one question, as sort of a pseudo-perception roll to notice or remember something.

Are players taking too long to decide? Give them a time limit.

Are the enemies taking too long to die? Reduce their HP and up their damage.

[Tanarii]

But, other than encouraging more descriptive attacks (which would only draw out fight sequences seeing as people would be taking longer on their own turns) how can I make the average combat encounters go by faster?Don't give players a chance to waffle. IMX that eats up more time than anything in combat. If players (or DMs resolving a creature action) take more than 30 seconds to resolve their turn, including all decision making, rolling dice, etc, you're going way too slow. Most turns should be considerably faster than that.

IMX players of casters are the biggest culprits of this. They seem to think the game is chess, not 'fighting for your life making split second decisions'. Don't give them that time. You control the pace of the game and of combat. Bake Make things exciting and tense. Here's a good article on it: http://theangrygm.com/manage-combat-like-a-dolphin/

You probably want to give newer players some leeway. But with experienced players, play hardball. If they don't know what they're doing as soon as their turn starts, tell them they stand there taking the Dodge action while they are overwhelmed by the chaos of combat, not knowing what to do. Not only does that keep them ready to act, put the pressure on them so they can't make 'perfect' decisions, but it also really ratchets up the verisimilitude of combat.

[HidesHisEyes]

Don't give players a chance to waffle. IMX that eats up more time than anything in combat. If players (or DMs resolving a creature action) take more than 30 seconds to resolve their turn, including all decision making, rolling dice, etc, you're going way too slow. Most turns should be considerably faster than that.

IMX players of casters are the biggest culprits of this. They seem to think the game is chess, not 'fighting for your life making split second decisions'. Don't give them that time. You control the pace of the game and of combat. Bake Make things exciting and tense. Here's a good article on it: http://theangrygm.com/manage-combat-like-a-dolphin/

You probably want to give newer players some leeway. But with experienced players, play hardball. If they don't know what they're doing as soon as their turn starts, tell them they stand there taking the Dodge action while they are overwhelmed by the chaos of combat, not knowing what to do. Not only does that keep them ready to act, put the pressure on them so they can't make 'perfect' decisions, but it also really ratchets up the verisimilitude of combat.

I second this, including the Angry DM article, and I'll also throw this one in: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/DnDBehindTheScreen/comments/3v4wwh/keeping_combat_short_and_tothepoint/

[KorvinStarmast]

IMX players of casters are the biggest culprits of this. They seem to think the game is chess, not 'fighting for your life making split second decisions'. Don't give them that time. You control the pace of the game and of combat. Amen deacon. A bit of urgency helps keep the combat exciting.
I heard this once summarized by an exasperated rogue, to an evoker:
"Less chat, more splat."

[Tanarii]

Amen deacon. A bit of urgency helps keep the combat exciting.
I heard this once summarized by an exasperated rogue, to an evoker:
"Less chat, more splat."
OTOH ... make sure your players won't revolt against it. Some people will get royally pissed off if they constantly feel rushed. They won't find it 'fun', no matter how much it evokes the same general kind of feelings your character is probably experiencing.

IMO it's one of those things DMs need to just make sure the entire group is on the same page before the game starts.

[Safety Sword]

I usually insist that players start to prepare what they're going to do when it's the previous player's turn.

A simple prompt can help: Player 1, it's your turn, player 2 you're up next.

Also a really simple one is rolling attack and damage at the same time. Then if you hit you don't have to wait more for the damage roll to happen. And if you miss you can quickly move on to the next attack roll or player

[Malifice]

We just finished our first campaign, and while my players insist they all enjoyed it very much, they all agreed that the combat seemed to drag on.

Now partially this is their own fault as none of them really roll played in combat encounters. Most of the time they went "I hit him with my sword" and rolled. Which is fine, but ultimately I'd have liked to see some more flavour from them.

But, other than encouraging more descriptive attacks (which would only draw out fight sequences seeing as people would be taking longer on their own turns) how can I make the average combat encounters go by faster?

I use:

'When a players turn comes around they have no more than 3 seconds to declare an action to the DM or else they take the Dodge action and their turn ends'

Use the above rule. It speeds up combat and makes players focus on what is going on, and plan actions in advance. It also simulates the chaos and snap decision making of battle.

Me: Righteo Chris; the Orc has just dropped the Halfling with a swing of his axe. Its now your Wizards turn. What do you do?
Chris: (flicking though his list of spells) Ummm... Ahhh (turns page) Hang on... Maybe.. No...
Me: Too long. You take the Dodge action and your turn ends. Steve it's now your turn, you see the Halfling down and a cruel Orc standing over him. The Wizard looks on bumbling in shock and confusion. what do you do?
Steve: I charge the Orcs screaming 'Vengance shall be mine! and bash ones head in with my hammer'
Me: 'Cool - you race over and swing your weapon; make me an attack roll.'

Etc.

[Afrodactyl]

Make each player have ten seconds to think about their turn. After that they have all the time in the world to actually do the moving and rolling, but they have to have their plan sorted sharp. Buy a small hourglass so that they have a visual timer. But as other players have said, they should be planning while other players are taking their turns.

If they're rolling attacks, make them roll the d20 and damage die at the same time. It only saves a few seconds, but it adds up.

[HidesHisEyes]

Make each player have ten seconds to think about their turn. After that they have all the time in the world to actually do the moving and rolling, but they have to have their plan sorted sharp. Buy a small hourglass so that they have a visual timer. But as other players have said, they should be planning while other players are taking their turns.

If they're rolling attacks, make them roll the d20 and damage die at the same time. It only saves a few seconds, but it adds up.

Sounds good.

When I play my crossbow expert ranger with three attacks, I roll all the d20s and all the damage dice together (if I'm not expecting the monster to die from anything less). I have different colour dice for each attack so I know which damage dice go with which d20s.

Not only is it faster, it's a lot of fun shaking up and rolling a whole bunch of different dice all together 😁

[egglegg]

I like most of this advice, but I feel like my players would respond poorly to a time limit. I might give it a try anyway for a session anyway just to see.

I do think that the players not knowing exactly what all their spells and attacks do is what really slows things down. I've already got them onto the idea of making spell cards for better organization so hopefully that will keep things faster paced.

[Thrudd]

I like most of this advice, but I feel like my players would respond poorly to a time limit. I might give it a try anyway for a session anyway just to see.

I do think that the players not knowing exactly what all their spells and attacks do is what really slows things down. I've already got them onto the idea of making spell cards for better organization so hopefully that will keep things faster paced.
Yes, the delay caused by unfamiliarity with abilities and spells is a thing you can't really prevent. It just gets less as time goes on. I would still encourage them to think of their general action with more urgency, like say what sort of general thing they want to do (go after that enemy or move into a better position), and they can ask you whether their spell or ability can do what they want to do if they aren't sure.

[ad_hoc]

At our table we use a somewhat simplified version of Greyhawk Initiate and it had greatly sped up combat.

We now have no problem getting in 6-8 combat encounters in a 4 hour session even though half the group are quite bad for analysis paralysis.

[Kane0]

If players are giving you hassles about time limits on turns I've found this to be a good compromise:

When initiative is rolled you start with the highest and go clockwise or counterclockwise around the table towards the next highest initiative roll. This way you are going around the table so people know when they're turn is up next without anyone reminding or pressuring them and can plan accordingly, without people gaming the init rolls too much.

Other than that, spell cards or some other form of memory/reference aid for the forgetful or analytical types is also a great help.

Edit: Oh, these (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?504210-Faster-combat-in-D-amp-D&highlight=combat)three (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?477005-Massive-Group-Helpr)threads (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?428489-Kurts-Kombat-Kwickeners)might also be of help.

[Easy_Lee]

If players are giving you hassles about time limits on turns I've found this to be a good compromise:

When initiative is rolled you start with the highest and go clockwise or counterclockwise around the table towards the next highest initiative roll. This way you are going around the table so people know when they're turn is up next without anyone reminding or pressuring them and can plan accordingly, without people gaming the init rolls too much.

Oh well now that's an idea: initiative musical chairs. Make everyone get up and move around the table into clockwise order based on initiative.

[Kane0]

We tried that, but it adds a fari amount of time trying to get everyone moved and settled, plus people like getting comfortable and staying that way so theyre usually reluctant to move every fight. Easier just to start at the highest and go aroudn the table from there unless you're at a convention or something where people are already moving around a lot (and arent using a lot of stuff like laptops and spell cards).

[Easy_Lee]

We tried that, but it adds a fari amount of time trying to get everyone moved and settled, plus people like getting comfortable and staying that way so theyre usually reluctant to move every fight. Easier just to start at the highest and go aroudn the table from there unless you're at a convention or something where people are already moving around a lot (and arent using a lot of stuff like laptops and spell cards).

True, I suppose you'd have to get group buy-in.

[Chugger]

It's frustrating to be a starting player and feel like you understand half this stuff you've been trying to research - you realize at the table that the main thing you'd been counting on doesn't work at all like you thought it did - and then you start forgetting to use half the decent abilities you have.

One of the things that slows down combat sssssssssoooooooooo much is this: the DM says, "Okay, Ted, you're next." Ted takes at least five seconds to seem to snap out of whatever daydream he'd been in, and he says oh, is the Ogre hurt? Ted if you'd been paying bloody attention you'd know that Bill just slashed it for nine - but we have to be nice - so we just tell him nicely. Oh, Ted says ... and he proceeds to think about what he's going to do. "Okay, can I get my sneak attack on the Ogre?" Ted finally says after 20 seconds that feels like 200. Well, Ted, if you'd bother to look down at the grid, you'd see your ally right next to the ogre - what tomato truck did you just fall off of - yes of bloody freaking course you can sneak attack roll it already!!!! But we can't say that, so we're nice and say yes, you can sneak attack. Ted then looks for his 20 sided dice - this actually takes him ten seconds that feel like 100. He only takes 5 second to "shake" the dice in his hand (well really only 4) but it feels like 50. And he rolls it. "Does a 12 hit?" Ted, add your attack bonus. "What?" Ted says. Ted you've been playing for 8 weeks now come on don't you at least know this part of the game?!?! "Oh 15," he smiles. "Seventeen," you say grimly, "you also get to add your proficiency bonus. You hit the ogre." "Oh." "Ted are you going to roll damage or are you going to wait for the next ICE AGE TO START FIRST?!" "Oh, right. A rapier. One to eight." "Ted, that's your twelve-sided die." "It is?" "That," you say pointing, "is your 8-sider." "Oh, right. Six!" "Now add your sneak attack." "Huh?" "Roll 2d6 for your sneak attack." "Oh. Bah, the gods of fate are against me. Five." "What's your dex mod for damage?" "Huh?" "It's plus three," says someone else, glancing at his sheet. "Thirteen. Good."

Okay this is fatal - FATAL - for gaming. The slooooOOOOooowness of players being dipsticks - er not being ready - not rolling efficiently.

What you need to do is duct-tape a cattle prod (on HIGH power) to Ted's vulnerable spot and use "aversion therapy" to train him to play efficiently. Pay freaking attention to combat. Know what you want to do when your turn starts and have all your dice in your hand - so it goes like this. "Ted, it's your turn." "Okay, I'm hidden to that ogre, right?" "Yes." "I pop up from behind this rock, shout, 'My name is Inigo Montoya prepare to cry' and give him a nasty stabby." (we will allow Ted to add a modest amount of role play color, it's good for the game) He rolls 2 20-siders, one eight, and 2 sixes. "My high to-hit roll is 16 plus five is 21. Assuming that hits, I've done...fourteen points damage. I use my cunning action to disengage and move over here."

Boom, that's it. Done. Move on.

Cattle prods. A DM's best friend...yes 'n deedy.....

[Easy_Lee]

@Chugger the game Dungeon World actually did a lot to encourage players to stay engaged even on each others' turns. Combat was, in short, a series of reactions to whatever just happened. The DM was encouraged to call people out and ask how they were going to respond to it.

Good DMs can do that kind of reaction-based combat in D&D, but the system has never really supported it. That's something I hope they improve upon in future editions: more reactions, fewer turn-based actions.

[nickl_2000]

Something super simple, have the players roll the attack d20 and the damage die at the same time. It means one less roll and over a large combat makes a big difference

[Psikerlord]

The best tips for 5e I can think of are:

1. attack and damage dice rolled at once
2. If player is umming and ahhing, they delay their action till later in the round, move onto the next guy
3. use a bit of morale - if half enemy dead or whatever, make a wis check (modified by leader cha bonus) and maybe they flee etc

[Chugger]

@Chugger the game Dungeon World actually did a lot to encourage players to stay engaged even on each others' turns. Combat was, in short, a series of reactions to whatever just happened. The DM was encouraged to call people out and ask how they were going to respond to it.

Good DMs can do that kind of reaction-based combat in D&D, but the system has never really supported it. That's something I hope they improve upon in future editions: more reactions, fewer turn-based actions.

Improvements? CATTLE PRODS! Yeeeee-HAW! Ahem...er yes...now where were we?

[egglegg]

The best tips for 5e I can think of are:

1. attack and damage dice rolled at once
2. If player is umming and ahhing, they delay their action till later in the round, move onto the next guy
3. use a bit of morale - if half enemy dead or whatever, make a wis check (modified by leader cha bonus) and maybe they flee etc

I hadn't thought of having them roll all their dice at once! I don't know how well it would work as most of my players only have one or two sets of dice, but its certainly something to think about.

I know you didn't suggest this but I think I will use a combo of your "move on to the next person and come back to them later" if the player is umming and ahhing and the idea of taking the person who rolled the highest initiative and then just going clockwise around the table. I think it would keep players more engaged as they would better be able to gage when their turn is coming up

Also yeah, I think adding in morale and having enemies flee will add an interesting element to combat.

[nickl_2000]

I hadn't thought of having them roll all their dice at once! I don't know how well it would work as most of my players only have one or two sets of dice, but its certainly something to think about.

I know you didn't suggest this but I think I will use a combo of your "move on to the next person and come back to them later" if the player is umming and ahhing and the idea of taking the person who rolled the highest initiative and then just going clockwise around the table. I think it would keep players more engaged as they would better be able to gage when their turn is coming up

Also yeah, I think adding in morale and having enemies flee will add an interesting element to combat.

If something is getting tiring to just end it. I had a player (playing a modified MtG vampire) in combat in a standoff where he was determined to drink the enemies blood, the enemy was trying to escape and run to get help. Every other bad guy was dead, the other PCs had literally moved onto another part of the dungeon. We went through 4 rounds of literally nothing happening when I called it. Yes player you win, he's dead, lets move on.

[Kurt Kurageous]

To the OP's question as written.

I use a prerolled sheet of one hundred random d20 results generated by excel. I use the rolls to resolve the monster's side of things. It makes it easier to detemine hits and misses because there are fixed numbers on a paper. And then draw a line thru the ones used.

I use side initiative. The players determine their own action order before combat, and can make changes to it after a combat, but in combat, they go in that order. They know when they are "up." The monsters all go at once. It all works out.

I have abbreviated stat blocks of all foes in the encounter on one sheet of paper so I don't need to use the MM or other clunky book.

I rush my players. Combat would do the same. I'd allow six seconds to BEGIN describing their action before assuming they take the DODGE action. That happened once, and hasn't happened since.

You get the players you train. If they expect to have all the time to make optimal decisions, they will take all the time.

[Chugger]

AD&D was "side initiative", and it went much faster.

Pre-rolled monster rolls would be great - very fast. Average damage helps, from the MM.

Making players roll at once might backfire in that a player can see he'll miss and "decide to do something else with his turn" - like if he sees the fighter w/ GWM has also missed, he'll assist him instead of attacking. Wouldn't have done that if he didn't pre-know his number.

[Laserlight]

I don't use spell cards; I make a one-page table with spell name, level, range, area covered, effect, save stat, duration, and whether it's an action, bonus or reaction. That way it's all on one sheet of paper, no flipping back and forth. You could also color code or do similar with fonts, eg italics for cantrips. Sped up my caster characters enough that now I require my players to do it.

[Vogonjeltz]

I use:

'When a players turn comes around they have no more than 3 seconds to declare an action to the DM or else they take the Dodge action and their turn ends'

Use the above rule. It speeds up combat and makes players focus on what is going on, and plan actions in advance. It also simulates the chaos and snap decision making of battle.

Me: Righteo Chris; the Orc has just dropped the Halfling with a swing of his axe. Its now your Wizards turn. What do you do?
Chris: (flicking though his list of spells) Ummm... Ahhh (turns page) Hang on... Maybe.. No...
Me: Too long. You take the Dodge action and your turn ends. Steve it's now your turn, you see the Halfling down and a cruel Orc standing over him. The Wizard looks on bumbling in shock and confusion. what do you do?
Steve: I charge the Orcs screaming 'Vengance shall be mine! and bash ones head in with my hammer'
Me: 'Cool - you race over and swing your weapon; make me an attack roll.'

Etc.

Shouldn't that be 6 seconds? Less time than a round to decide seems...overly punitive. Especially as that means the players would only have about 15 seconds to decide prior to their own turn if they're fighting a single enemy, like a dragon.

Don't get me wrong, I ascribe to the exact same school of making decisions while the other people are taking their turns and when it's your own turn spit it out already. But 3 seconds sounds a little too fast.

[Chugger]

Three seconds?

Look, I realize I suggested cattle prods above, and of course I was also mostly (if not all) joking.

It's a balancing act, especially when people at your table might have "issues". We're discovering that special ed and mental health issues are far more common than was once believed by society in general. Autism, anxiety, dyslexia, ADD/ADHD, and so on - some people require more time to process an imaginary event in their minds. They seem like they're staring blankly, but they're slow to put together what just happened. So we're going to punish them for something they can't help?

Okay - mea culpa - I added to this above - this frenzy of clamping down in a tyrannical fashion on players who don't decide as quickly as others. So let me try to undo the harm I may have caused. Please recognize that some people are "on spectrum" or actually have a "diagnosis" of some sort - but generally function well and school or at the right kind of job for them - but may need time to know what to do in dnd. They want to play, but pressuring them unduly will make the game a living hell for them. Please remember, just because you might think lighting fast doesn't mean everyone else does - and it doesn't necessarily make you "better" than people who process information slower. And that applies to me, very much so, too.

So let's please be kind to people who are different from us and try to break this down. When a player is slow to reach for his dice because of a "bad habit" that really has nothing to do with an OCD "tic" or w/e, then we can gently "cure" them of this bad habit by prompting them to keep the proper dice in their hand, ready to roll - or at least right in front of them, separated from all their other dice and ready to pick up.

Some players roll off the table half the time - very annoying. They can be trained to roll in a box.

But please keep in mind that some player habits may be condition-related and simply have to be tolerated. They may have to start their turn by asking several "dumb questions" (to us) but _not dumb_ to them. They don't process info like we do, and they need time and clarification. And pressuring them on this will only hurt them - it's a savage and cruel thing to do - please learn when you're doing this and avoid it! Again, I am to blame for part of this thread's direction - please let me undo the potential harm I've caused. Yes it can appear to us who are "neuro-typical" (if we even are) that some other player is being "weird" or "difficult" - but it can be mild or even not so mild OCD, autism, or "on the autism spectrum", number-dyslexia, ADD, anxiety and a host of other complex mental issues (which the player can't really control).

So please gently see what you can fix and otherwise support and be tolerant of your friends at the table. And in the rest of life. Thanks for reading this - I hope it helps. And again, I'm sorry if I was misleading above - I was trying to be funny but did not intend to open this Pandora's Box of potential harm and pain to other human beings.

(if you're not aware, people with autism or who even are "on the spectrum of autism" may have trouble understanding intuitively what is told to them - in other words they need lots more description to understand the imaginary world events because they don't intuitively leap to the "correct conclusion" off a few words. They may need a much more in-depth description, even of round to round simple events, so they can fee comfortable understanding what's happening and what the smart thing to do is. Again, please help them - they need us to be compassionate and tolerant. Thanks)

[ZardukZarakhil]

So some tips i have found useful (when introducing some new and younger players to the game)

Drill into them repeatedly that in Combat when it is their go they can make 1 Action, 1 Bonus and 1 Reaction possibly (in response to someone else - usually the enemy) and also Move.

Then create a Combat Cheat sheet (i use prompt cards) where the player sits down and writes what all their actions could be (eg make 2 attacks, cast Action spell, use X magic item, use feat ability etc), then do the same for bonus and reactions. If they gain the abilty to do something extra then they add it to the list.

I fnd this cuts down on confusion about what they can do and what certain abilities are.

On the back i then get them to write out their most common abilites in all parameters (so give numbers for attack and dam but then also do the same if they have GWM for instance so they are not having to mentally calculate +X and the -5 from that roll, its already done for them or give spell attack roll/DC and dam inflicted for most common spells such as firebolt cantrip or fireball spell).

Spell Cards are great also but with Action/Bonus/Reaction very clear at the top (also Concentration - i rule that if they need to take a Concentration check and they dont remind me about it they have auto failed it and lost the spell, doesnt take long before they are on top of that - could be harsh but its a bit of a pet peeve of mine trying to remember Concentration checks from damage on a previous turn).

Rolling attack and damage dice at the same time does speed things up (but can be confusing for newer players ime so patience is required as they learn the dice :smallsmile:).

[Chugger]

Patience, yes. Amen. I agree totally. And I have to remind myself of that one all the time, but it's worth it! :smallsmile:

[MrFahrenheit]

In my games, we have "cloud-based initiative." Which actually has nothing to do with a server-based cloud, so I don't know how the player who came up with it in the game he DMs named it. Anyhow, it works like this:

When initiative is rolled, the party is split into "clouds" based on members who go before a monster/monsters.

Consider the following example of initiative rolls...
Player A: 16
Player B: 13
Monster A: 12
Player C: 11
Monster B: 10
Monster C: 9
Player D: 7
Player E: 6
Player F: 5
Monster D: 2

Players A and B don't have to go A then B. They're "player cloud 1" and can go whatever order they choose between the two of them, then monster A goes. Same thing toward the bottom: players D, E and F are "player cloud 3" and can go whatever order they choose between the three of them, but they have to go after Monsters B and C (who are privy to the same rules - even if these were two groups of same monsters) and before Monster D. The clouds are split up by enemy initiative, while the enemies get to have clouds of their own. (FWIW, player C is all alone on "player cloud 2").

This makes a lot of sense from more than just a time management perspective, but from a player perspective as well: say player A is a ranger with colossus slayer. S/he wouldn't want to go very first at the beginning of combat anyhow, so player B gets a chance to do some damage to a monster, thus triggering the noted feature for Player A.