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JBPuffin
2017-08-09, 08:35 PM
I wanna know the best you can with this:

Standard Human (not VHume)
Stats of 18 across the board at level 1 after Human bonus
You have to take 1 level in every class in whatever order you desire, but before you take anything else; this includes Artificer and Mystic. Levels 15 thru 20 are up to your discretion.
No magic items provided.


I think what it probably will come down to is what two classes you want to have 4 levels in, but I think I'll be pleasantly surprised no matter the outcome. What says the Playground?

suplee215
2017-08-09, 09:12 PM
I think this is a "JAck of all trades" build and as such I think that direction is going to be brokenly fun. 1st lvl rogue for 4 skills, 6 due to background. lvl 1 in bard and ranger brings you up to 8. Cleric: Knowledge domain gets you 10 (4 expertise). I also feel like the only way to flavor this guy is as someone trying to know a little bit of everything. although no multiclassing rule is given, the artificer the way it is written will give another skill based on it's 3 skills like ranger and bard so 11. I'll flavor this guy also as a bit as a performer trying to know everything so lore bard, 14 skills, 6 expertise and insane stats for the. continuing as a bard seems like best, getting an ASI and early magical secrets. Spell wise I'll take early lvl 1 spells to boost people, especially those that scale. hold person of course as well. a damage spell or two. ASI I want to take Skilled just to get to 17 out of 18 skills and being able to do everything.

Elminster298
2017-08-09, 09:48 PM
I like this... I think as just a super quick answer without searching all the nuances I would go:

Artificer 1
Bearbarian 3
Bard 1
War Cleric 1
Land Druid 2
Fighter 1
Monk 1
Soul knife Mystic 1
Paladin 1
Ranger 1
Rogue 1
Sea Sorcerer 3
Celestial Warlock 2
Wizard 1

Citan
2017-08-10, 04:20 AM
I wanna know the best you can with this:

Standard Human (not VHume)
Stats of 18 across the board at level 1 after Human bonus
You have to take 1 level in every class in whatever order you desire, but before you take anything else; this includes Artificer and Mystic. Levels 15 thru 20 are up to your discretion.
No magic items provided.


I think what it probably will come down to is what two classes you want to have 4 levels in, but I think I'll be pleasantly surprised no matter the outcome. What says the Playground?
Woah.
With such godly stats...
(small suggestion before we start: you should include links to Artificer and Mystic for those like me who don't have it at hand).

Artificer
Barbarian
Bard
Cleric (Life)
Druid
Fighter
Monk
Mystic
Paladin
Ranger (revised)
Rogue
Sorcerer (Shadow or Phoenix)
Warlock (Hexblade)
Wizard (Bladesinger)
Only 6 levels left...
Most interesting 2nd level features...
Jack of all Trades (Bard), Cunning Action (Rogue), Magic Item (Artificer), Bladesinger (Wizard), Channel Divinity (Tempest Cleric), Smite (Paladin).

Obviously we have to rely on either weapon cantrips, or permanent bonus action attack.
Because high level spells are unattainable, we should instead rely on permanent features or reliable short rest features.
Another problem is, at most one ASI. Which would mean Mystic 4, because ability to replace saving throw is dandy. Or Paladin 6 but then it's the only class that is pumped.

Let's see how we fare with one level in all classes...
Spells available at any time: 4+5+5+2+2+6 = 24 spells. Including all good 1st level buffs and utility. Not bad.
Cantrips known: 2+3+2+4+2+3 = 16. Pretty nifty, can cover all bases, including decent weapon attack.
Spellcaster level: 1+1+1+1+1+1 = 6. Pretty... Meh.
AC: Monk or Barbarian, whatever, AC is 18. But Barbarian is compatible with shields, so that's a plus.
Take the Alchemist speciality on Artificer, so he has either great movement buff (Swift Step Draught, my favorite) or great instant debuff (Thunderstone).

That character is extremely useful outside of combats, thanks to great many utility spells known. In fight though, it's currently stuck in the role of "Bless buffer, Healing Words healer, Booming Blade user".

How would I buff him with the 6 remaining levels?
1. Take another level of Wizard for Bladesinger: now AC is great and you also get more spell known and Arcane Recovery.
2. Take another level of Druid for Sheperd Circle, because short-rest auras are great.
3. Take another level of Druid for 2nd level spells including Pass Without Trace and Enhance Ability.
4. Take another level of Wizard for 2nd level spells including Web, Shatter etc.
5. Take another level of Paladin for Smiting and 5 more spells prepped.
6. Take another level of Bard for Jack of all Trades (if you go skillmonkey), Rogue for Cunning Action (if you go swift grappler/striker), or Warlock (if you go ranged blaster + potent healer/buffer).

I'll come back later to make progression suggestion and abilities recap. ;)


1. Fighter: cover all bases: I'm torn with Wisdom saves, but beyond the concentration point (Bladesinger covers that), the thing is, many creatures have dangerous Constitution targeting effects. Pick Mariner Fighting Style (UA is allowed, so while I cannot bear with picking the obviously broken Tunnel Fighter, I think Mariner is very fine).
For now don heavy armor and shield with javelins. Fighting Style will come handy later.
AC is covered, decent weapon attack.

2. Wizard: learn Shield, Magic Missile, Sleep, Chromatic Orb, Longstrider, Expeditious Retreat, Comprehend Languages. Learn Booming Blade, Ray of Frost, Mage Hand, Minor Illusion.
Now better weapon attack, better movement (Expeditious Retreat), better emergency AC, better utility.

3. Life Cleric: prepare Healing Words, Bless, Shield of Faith, Sanctuary, Guiding Bolt, Bane.
Learn Guidance, Spare the Dying, Thaumaturgy.
Better attack (Bless) or AC (Shield of Faith), healing.

4. Druid: prepare Goodberry, Faerie Fire, Charm Person, Absorb Elements, Earth Tremor.
Learn Thorns Whip and Druidcraft.
Now you can blow all remaining slots on Life Goodberries before a long rest for great healing on next day.

5. Barbarian: now you can remove your heavy armor, and alternate between two playstyles: party buffer (as before) or tank (with Longstrider cast before).

6. Bladesinger Wizard: compatible with Rage, so that's a big plus. Also prepare two more spells.

7. Monk: now when you are raging you still get 2 attacks per turn thanks to the bonus action (honestly it's not the most efficient way to build, but the most optimum would make Barb and Monk dead weight).

8. Druid 2: because the auras can be used to enforce your grappling, party grappling, or facilitate ranged attacks, or give a decent THP (it would have been more efficient to take it before TBH).

9. Shadow Sorcerer: enter one of the most borderline OP features of an UA: free chance at avoiding fall-down on most kind of attacks.
Also learn False Life, Disguise Self or Ice Knife.
Learn Green Flame Blade, Mold Earth, Shape Water.
Note that another good option if you favor damage would be to go Phoenix Sorcerer.

10. Rogue: due time for Expertise in Grappling/Shoving and Stealth.

11. Bard: enter Vicious Mockery, Light, Prestidigitation.
Learn Disguise Self, Silent Image.

12. Artificer: welcome the additional speed buff (20 feet) or preparation to grapple (Thunderstone), along with "AOE cantrips".

13. Mystic: honestly too many great options here, never really put much insight into the UA class. Seems many many great things to do. Just pick ones you like.

14. Warlock: another great bump to damage thanks to the overly broken Hexblade ability.
Also learn Light and Eldricht Blast, as well as Hex and Armor of Agathys.

15. Druid 2: many great 2nd level spells to prepare, which are totally compatible with Hexblade too. ;)

16. Ranger: due time to get increased Initiative.

17. Paladin: honestly mostly a dead level.

18. Paladin: now we are talking, you can smite away when extra oomph is needed. You also get Command, Heroism, Compelled Duel, Wrathful Smite and Searing Smite.

19&20: whatever, although I have a preference for Wizard 3 (Rope Trick, Mirror Image) and Warlock 2 for extra good ranged attack and short-rest slots for buffs (Mystic choices can cover either the "skillmonkey" or "speedmonkey" aspects that Bard 2 or Rogue 2 would otherwise bring).



Honestly, it's a bit hard to put Monk and Barbarian to good use. Apart from that, this character whould have nothing to be ashamed of compared to any character apart from fullcasters: you...
- Can deal a pretty nifty amount of damage (Hexblade +cantrips and potential Hex/Smite spell/Divine Smite) either in melee or at range...
(Note: with Phoenix Sorcerer a stupidly good trick, although lengthy to pull off, would be to pin down a Hexblade enemy in range of a Flaming Sphere).
- Have something like 30 spells prepared to pick from a base of up to ~50 spells (depending on loot for Wizard spells) and 15 cantrips to help in any social/travel/fight situation, including great party buffs and rituals...
- Are extremely sturdy (18 Unarmored + 4 Bladesong + 1 Mariner + X if Mystic + Shield of Faith, Mirror Image, Blur, Shield or even Sanctuary, not accounting for Shadow Sorcerer's resilience and possible Rage reduction)...
- Have a great base mobility for most fights (30 feet + 10 from Bladesong + 10 from Longstrider + 20 from Artificer), not accounting for possible Expeditious Retreat or Cunning Action...
- Extremely good at grappling/shoving (Expertise + advantage from several ways on a 18 STR).

Honestly my only miss is not having the ability to learn more rituals since no space for Ritual Caster feat, I miss Phantom Steed and Leomund's Tiny Hut.
But that could be done if you renounce Smiting ability (because you prefer using spells directly) and the two last "optional" levels and build Wizard up to 5 instead (you can even top one stat or pick a good feat instead).


This character would really be a blast to play, although action economy would be tricky at times. :)

sightlessrealit
2017-08-10, 05:38 AM
The way I see it you will need staying power. So we will go with a Strength Based build(while also having skill & magic potential)

Starting with:
Level 1: Rogue, this is for skills & 2 attacks(basically), Also Expertise in Athletics & Perception
To keep our theme up we'll get the next 2 levels into our primary base.
Level 2: Barbarian (For Rage but we won't see the fruits for this till later)
Level 3: Soul Knife Mystic (For the synergy of Attack & Off Hand attack, will get better later)
Level 4: Fighter (For Two-Weapon Fighting Style)
Level 5: Raven Queen Warlock (Get ready to have crazy Perception also refresh spells)
Level 6: Ranger (We get Range options now a bit but also some more buffs + a skill doesn't hurt)
Level 7: Gunslinger Artificer (More boost to range & some skills?)
Level 8: Bard (More Skills & some buffing, Plus finally spells)
Level 9: Knowledge Cleric (Even More skills & Spells)
Level 10: Phoenix Sorcerer (Spells & cool buff)
Level 11: Monk (It doesn't hurt to have this but ehh)
Level 12: Wizard (Yeah more spells woah)
Level 13: Paladin (Bleh)
Level 14: Druid (Spells, that's about it)
Level 15: Barbarian (Yep, it took forever but we are finally here)
Level 16: Bear Totem Barbarian (Oh ****)
Level 17: Mystic (Next level gonna be broken)
Level 18: Mystic (+4 Weapons boys)
Level 19: Rogue (Yep)
Level 20: Arcane Trickster Rogue (More Spells & better Sneak)

There are other things you could do but ehh. You can decide that.

With the theme you have, you'll have a +14 to hit which is really nice.

Aaron Underhand
2017-08-10, 07:17 AM
I'd put everything remaining into a single class...

So Paladin 7 for auras, and pretty much full Paladin spell slots (plus resilient CON?)

or Warlock 7 for at will ranged plus 4th level spells and short rest slots

or Wizard 7 for maximum spell utility

or Fighter(BM) 7 for two ASIs (PAM and GWM)

jas61292
2017-08-10, 10:13 AM
Well, one thing (that most people probably ignore but it's a rule nonetheless) to keep in mind is that you only get unarmored defense once. Per the multiclassing rules, if you have it, you do not get it again, meaning that if you want to use it (and why not with those stats?) The order of barbarian and monk actually matters for determining what stat to use. Personally I'd take advantage of this, in the barbarian side (since it allows a shield) and make sure to get two ASIs with later levels to max out Dex and Con. But beyond that, I'd probably ignore barbarian and other martial classes. Rather, I'd probably grab 3 more levels of two casting classes. Probably wizard and land druid so I can double dip on short rest spell slot restoration.

Elminster298
2017-08-10, 10:36 AM
Well, one thing (that most people probably ignore but it's a rule nonetheless) to keep in mind is that you only get unarmored defense once. Per the multiclassing rules, if you have it, you do not get it again, meaning that if you want to use it (and why not with those stats?) The order of barbarian and monk actually matters for determining what stat to use. Personally I'd take advantage of this, in the barbarian side (since it allows a shield) and make sure to get two ASIs with later levels to max out Dex and Con. But beyond that, I'd probably ignore barbarian and other martial classes. Rather, I'd probably grab 3 more levels of two casting classes. Probably wizard and land druid so I can double dip on short rest spell slot restoration.

As is the same for all features that change the equation for your armor class, you get to choose which one applies. It does not have to be the 1st or last in order. This goes for Draconic Resilience and Psionic Resilience as well as mage armor or any equivalent. You get to choose which one applies at any given time.

jas61292
2017-08-10, 10:53 AM
As is the same for all features that change the equation for your armor class, you get to choose which one applies. It does not have to be the 1st or last in order. This goes for Draconic Resilience and Psionic Resilience as well as mage armor or any equivalent. You get to choose which one applies at any given time.

Yes... and no. You can choose from any you have. But the multiclassing rules explicitly say "If you already have the Unarmored Defense feature, you can't gain it again from another class." In other words you cannot pick the second one you get, because you never actually get it.

Elminster298
2017-08-10, 05:07 PM
Yes... and no. You can choose from any you have. But the multiclassing rules explicitly say "If you already have the Unarmored Defense feature, you can't gain it again from another class." In other words you cannot pick the second one you get, because you never actually get it.

You do not "double up" on it. You still get the effects for all the armor equations. They overlap without stacking. You can have every single armor equation modifier 5th ed has to offer at the same time. In general only the one that offers the best armor class will apply though. If you have unarmored defense 15 from barb and unarmored defense 16 from monk you are going to choose the higher armor class. If you then find a shield and decide to use it you can equip it(thus nullifying the monk unarmored defense) which then kicks in your barb unarmored defense for an ac of 17. If you then decide to become a Draconic Sorcerer which would change your ac to 18 you can choose to go with that. You have ALL of the features from any class that provides them. They are like layers of an onion with the best one on the top.

jas61292
2017-08-10, 08:31 PM
You do not "double up" on it. You still get the effects for all the armor equations. They overlap without stacking. You can have every single armor equation modifier 5th ed has to offer at the same time. In general only the one that offers the best armor class will apply though. If you have unarmored defense 15 from barb and unarmored defense 16 from monk you are going to choose the higher armor class. If you then find a shield and decide to use it you can equip it(thus nullifying the monk unarmored defense) which then kicks in your barb unarmored defense for an ac of 17. If you then decide to become a Draconic Sorcerer which would change your ac to 18 you can choose to go with that. You have ALL of the features from any class that provides them. They are like layers of an onion with the best one on the top.

I understand that general rule. But specifically for unarmored defense, the PHB says exactly what I quoted above. You simply do not get the second unarmored defense, per RAW. That may or may not be what they intended, but is is absolutely what they wrote.

Sariel Vailo
2017-08-10, 09:59 PM
2level wizard 3 level fighter 2 bard 1 rougue 1 level cleric 2 levels in sorcerer 3 levels warlock. One level monk.1 level barbarian.one level druid.1 level ranger.2 levels paladin.

Bladesinger wizard archetype

Favored enemy for ranger lets go undead or dragon

Rougue grab stealth and another skill (for my choice performance)
warlock patron id say fiend or arch fey or for a little more utility the hexblade or the undead patron.

Sorcerer wildmagic. With metamagic of quickened spell and i get two right so subtle spell.
Life cleric making healing spells better. And using the ability to increase it above its rank as a bonus action
Fighter 3 eldritc knight for cantrip free atack and weapon bond.dueling
Paladin n/a
Barbarian n/a
Like ive built it i could nova by twenty but its
Race uh it depends im majoring in spell casting so dark elf half elf or high elf tiefling aasimar. Pick your choice.
If a human and not vhuman feel sad.
I have every class in the phb but zero asi

I grabbed levels for most major spells.
If i were to name this id call it magic master red mage or something magic related