Ship With No Sailors

[Drakevarg]

So for my newest campaign, which I'll be running entirely online for the first time, the party will start waking up as prisoners on a derelict pirate ship, with no memory of how they got there. How this happened isn't particularly important to my question, but the relevant data is that the ship is becalmed, has no crew, and none of the PCs know how to sail. The doldrums issue will be dealt with as they solve the mystery of what happened, but getting back to land is another matter entirely.

Thing is, as far as I can tell, there are simply no rules for the eventuality of the party finding themselves alone on a ship in the middle of nowhere with no idea how to sail it. Sailing requires Profession (Sailor), and the Profession skill is trained only. Stormwrack has rules for the penalties for sailing with a skeleton crew, but not for sailing with a clueless one.

I do have one ready solution: there is one NPC on board, an enigmatic fellow who does know a bit about sailing. He could take up the role of boatswain and instruct the party on what to do. He's not the type willing to help without payment of some form however, even to save his own skin, convinced that in a pinch the PCs can figure it out themselves. In the event that the players think his deal is too shady (he's a shady guy), what are some relatively rule-friendly means of resolving this issue, besides piling as many rations and clean water as they can fit on a launch and rowing, hoping they cross paths with another ship before they hit bingo fuel?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Drakevarg
Stormwrack has rules for the penalties for sailing with a skeleton crew, but not for sailing with a clueless one.

The first question is whether the party will have any idea where they are, where they’re going and where they want to be. That will probably take a while to sort out.

Once they have, I’d let them roll untrained checks for the simple aspects of working a ship—unfurling a sail, leaning on the rudder, using the compass if the ship has one. All of this is subsumed in the Profession (sailor) check for trained mariners, but in this situation I’d say they have to manage each step as a separate task.


Originally Posted by Drakevarg
I do have one ready solution: there is one NPC on board, an enigmatic fellow who does know a bit about sailing. He could take up the role of boatswain and instruct the party on what to do.

This sounds like a workable solution, and it’s a classic case of forcing the party to work with someone they don’t trust for mutual survival.

They will, of course, be demanding to know what happened, since he’s the obvious person to ask the simple questions like “where are we?” and “where is everyone else?” The real trick may be to keep the party from keelhauling him in search of answers.


Originally Posted by Drakevarg
…besides piling as many rations and clean water as they can fit on a launch and rowing, hoping they cross paths with another ship before they hit bingo fuel?

Probably you don’t want the party abandoning the ship and trying to row to safety. Bligh sailed four thousand miles in a ship’s launch, without charts or a chronometer, but he was a brilliant seaman. If the PCs don’t have long years of sailing experience, they’ll end up like most of the crew from the whaleship Essex.

To discourage this, I would suggest showing the PCs that the ship is, in fact, moving. Even if they’re in a calm, there may be a strong current carrying the ship along, and you might emphasize that this is at least taking them somewhere.

Also, never underestimate the deterrent value of sharks. :smalltongue:

[Hackulator]

Have the ship actually be The Sea Dirge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22166064&postcount=92), my entry for the last villain competition. There are lots of ways to make things work from there, especially if you make some changes to the spell list.

[Drakevarg]

The first question is whether the party will have any idea where they are, where they’re going and where they want to be. That will probably take a while to sort out.

Once they have, I’d let them roll untrained checks for the simple aspects of working a ship—unfurling a sail, leaning on the rudder, using the compass if the ship has one. All of this is subsumed in the Profession (sailor) check for trained mariners, but in this situation I’d say they have to manage each step as a separate task.

What would the roll be, though? Just a series of untrained Wisdom checks?


This sounds like a workable solution, and it’s a classic case of forcing the party to work with someone they don’t trust for mutual survival.

They will, of course, be demanding to know what happened, since he’s the obvious person to ask the simple questions like “where are we?” and “where is everyone else?” The real trick may be to keep the party from keelhauling him in search of answers.

That part'll be easy, for reasons I won't go into on the off chance one of my players browses this forum. Suffice to say he's above their pay grade. That said, he's willing to answer some of their questions, even if he'll be vague and unhelpful about most of it.


Probably you don’t want the party abandoning the ship and trying to row to safety. Bligh sailed four thousand miles in a ship’s launch, without charts or a chronometer, but he was a brilliant seaman. If the PCs don’t have long years of sailing experience, they’ll end up like most of the crew from the whaleship Essex.

To discourage this, I would suggest showing the PCs that the ship is, in fact, moving. Even if they’re in a calm, there may be a strong current carrying the ship along, and you might emphasize that this is at least taking them somewhere.

Also, never underestimate the deterrent value of sharks. :smalltongue:

True enough. I should plot an eventuality for if they do decide to just kick around and hope they get rescued/float close to land.

[Mendicant]

What would the roll be, though? Just a series of untrained Wisdom checks?

Probably some combination of untrained Intelligence and Wisdom checks. Maybe a few Dexterity as well. There are also a fair number of cross applications of non-sailing skills. Knowledge:The Planes and perhaps an additional Intelligence check might be useful for reverse-engineering how an astrolabe works, for instance. Survival and several knowledges would be helpful in deciphering where they are, or which general direction land is. ("These sorts of fish stay near land, we must be close to it!" and that sort of thing.)

What kind of ship is it? If it's a small Xebec-type deal then it might be less complex for novices to figure out and manage, and it'll come with oars. If they've got heroic strength that might go partway towards making up for their lack of numbers or skill as oarsmen.

[Drakevarg]

Probably some combination of untrained Intelligence and Wisdom checks. Maybe a few Dexterity as well. There are also a fair number of cross applications of non-sailing skills. Knowledge:The Planes and perhaps an additional Intelligence check might be useful for reverse-engineering how an astrolabe works, for instance. Survival and several knowledges would be helpful in deciphering where they are, or which general direction land is. ("These sorts of fish stay near land, we must be close to it!" and that sort of thing.)

We've got at least one survivalist in the party, he should be able to help in a few ways. Another I might try subtly talking into redistributing his skills to have ranks in Profession (Sailor) because his backstory explicitly has him as the son of a naval merchant and he has ranks in Climb and Swim to indicate his familiarity with ships.


What kind of ship is it? If it's a small Xebec-type deal then it might be less complex for novices to figure out and manage, and it'll come with oars. If they've got heroic strength that might go partway towards making up for their lack of numbers or skill as oarsmen.

The ship is a common caravel. Stock pirate vessel.

[Mendicant]

We've got at least one survivalist in the party, he should be able to help in a few ways. Another I might try subtly talking into redistributing his skills to have ranks in Profession (Sailor) because his backstory explicitly has him as the son of a naval merchant and he has ranks in Climb and Swim to indicate his familiarity with ships.

In that case I'd just assign everyone an extra background trait that provides a rank or two in some "background" skills. Nobody is going to be put out by some stocking stuffers, it won't hurt anything, and it's less awkward than trying to guide build choices.

[Drakevarg]

In that case I'd just assign everyone an extra background trait that provides a rank or two in some "background" skills. Nobody is going to be put out by some stocking stuffers, it won't hurt anything, and it's less awkward than trying to guide build choices.

Do you know if there's an established ruleset for that concept, or would it be ad hoc? I like the idea, but the closest rule I can find for it is the Backgrounds for Unearthed Arcana, which are more meant for quickly grinding out higher-leveled characters with established backstories. I'm thinking maybe +1 or +2 in all skills listed under a particular background entry?

[Mendicant]

The rule I'm working with is the traits subsystem, from Pathfinder. (Hacking actually, to give ranks instead of a bonus so he can actually use his boosted profession skill by RAW.) There are several that are "+1 on x skill and y skill, and one of them is always a class skill for you."

I haven't played 3.5 since I lost my original books a decade ago, so I'm gonna be a pretty poor help with strictly 3.5 rules, unfortunately.

[johnbragg]

Options, in no particular order.

1. Give everyone ranks in Profession (Sailor) as part of their backstories.

2. Resettable Magic Trap! Anyone who eats food from the captain's table/ touches the navigator's wheel/looks in the empty treasure chest/ whatever gets 4 ranks in Profession (Sailor) for 24 hours, non-stacking.

Course then you have to work that into the mystery of how the PCs got there.

[Vizzerdrix]

Reward the party with a few books what will grant them a couple free ranks in sailing when yhey discover whay happened to the crew, or hide them in the capts quarters.

[Goaty14]

Ethereal dead sailors that are ghosts cursed to keep working the ship in the PC's favor by using Ghost Touch gloves?

The PCs don't know it/notice it due to illusion magic

[Drakevarg]

1. Give everyone ranks in Profession (Sailor) as part of their backstories.

I don't intend to railroad character identities that way. I did notice, however, that we neglected to give the human characters their bonus skill points, so that might be an out if I gently nudge the one with a nautical background in that direction.


2. Resettable Magic Trap! Anyone who eats food from the captain's table/ touches the navigator's wheel/looks in the empty treasure chest/ whatever gets 4 ranks in Profession (Sailor) for 24 hours, non-stacking.

Setting is fairly low-magic, at least in the sense that "utility magic" simply does not exist. It's more of an occult thing, where magic is alive, uncontrolled, and almost always comes at a price.


Ethereal dead sailors that are ghosts cursed to keep working the ship in the PC's favor by using Ghost Touch gloves?

See above mostly, but more importantly I don't want to pile more supernatural contrivances onto the scenario then are already present if I can help it.

[Firest Kathon]

You could also drop a scroll or two (or a partially charged Wand, or a single-use magic item) of Skeleton Crew (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/skeleton-crew/) to your players. As a cleric scroll there would be 10 skeletons which have 6 ranks in Profession (sailor) and last for 5 days, should be enough to get them closer to civilization.

Edited to add: I did not read your last reply, but that would fit nicely into the "magic is an occult thing" in your setting, especially if you grant the spell as a quest reward (e.g. item found when clearing the Cursed Caves of Captain Carlos on Carany Cay).

[Drakevarg]

You could also drop a scroll or two (or a partially charged Wand, or a single-use magic item) of Skeleton Crew (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/skeleton-crew/) to your players. As a cleric scroll there would be 10 skeletons which have 6 ranks in Profession (sailor) and last for 5 days, should be enough to get them closer to civilization.

Edited to add: I did not read your last reply, but that would fit nicely into the "magic is an occult thing" in your setting, especially if you grant the spell as a quest reward (e.g. item found when clearing the Cursed Caves of Captain Carlos on Carany Cay).

This is hypothetically possible and not wildly out of theme with the extant phenomena aboard the ship, but the spell does hinge on having a fresh supply of intact dead bodies, which is unfortunately not particularly compatible with their scenario. That said, it's a Pathfinder spell, not a 3.5e one from a book I own.

In more general news, I did the rolls and even if they couldn't get the ship to sail, either desperation tactic (getting in a launch and rowing, or just letting it drift) would eventually get them to rescue/shore if they could hold out. Either path involves somehow surviving a hurricane, but it's still possible.

[Mr Adventurer]

The crew are all Ghosts, who use Malevolence to shanghai innocents into being their sailor bodies. Why the ghosts allowed the Malevolence on the PCs to end is up for grabs, but the ghosts are now dematerialised and hanging around on the Ethereal Plane. The PCs could find this out and speak with the ghosts to get the necessary instructions in Profession (sailor); or even allow the ghosts to possess one or more of them again.

[stanprollyright]

I immediately thought of the Flying Dutchman. Perhaps your helpful NPC could be a ghost, the only one who is visible and willing to interact, and intercedes with the rest of the ghost crew on the PC's behalf.

[Tvtyrant]

Sounds like a skill challenge to me. Int checks for how to make the ship go, wisdom for direction, dexterity to make it happen. Each check takes a day, with you describing the days long efforts to make things work while burning in the salt and sun.

Three passed checks in a row and they each gain a point in sailor and begin going on their merry way, having fogured out how to work the ship. Three failures in a row and they collapse from exhaustion, hopelessly stuck until some merfolk pull them to safety or another ship comes by. 10 successes before 10 failures and they reach an island, 10 failures before 10 successes and they run out of food and begin to starve.

[Elkad]

Sailing a small-ish ship is not difficult at all.

Without the ranks in Sailor, you get less speed, have to be more cautious in high winds, and have more danger when you get to the hard edges of the ocean, but in general each task is pretty easy.

Untrained checks will get them by.

Except Navigation. Without magical aid or sextants or something, they'll get terribly lost.

*note, I've never actually read the sailing rules in Stormwrack or wherever, so the rules may be massively different from the reality.

[Drakevarg]

Sailing a small-ish ship is not difficult at all.

I would hardly call a caravel a "smallish" ship. It takes more than half a dozen deckhands to run it with any proficiency. This party of five might be able to pull it off with some effort, but not terribly efficiency, especially since (as of the most recent chargen progress) only one of them has any clue what they're doing.

[Hiro Quester]

The ship could contain a book or sextant that gives a +2 circumstance bonus and enables untrained checks to knowledge (geography) when navigating by stars.

[Aquillion]

It really depends on what you want. I'd advise against introducing another NPC unless you want them to become the focus of the players' attention; I imagine most players would get extremely annoyed if the NPC started demanding stuff in exchange for helping them, too, given that he's also stuck on this ship. Instead, some possibilities...

1. It's a magic ship, making it easy to sail. Unseen servants handle stuff. Maybe a water elemental is moving it, so it's basically a car - all you have to do is turn the wheel and adjust the speed with a lever. The players will like having a cool ship (you can even have it be like a magical mansion, providing food and water, though it's up to you how generous you want to be and whether you want those to be issues.) This is the most straightforward answer if you don't want "sail to the ship" to be a major preoccupation for the players.

2. There are magic items on the ship that give them the abilities they need. Similar to the above, but now they do have to spend time actually sailing it.

3. The players mysteriously know how to handle the ship. Everyone gets a free rank in profession: sailor, which isn't part of their backstory - it's mysterious knowledge they don't know how they obtained. You'll have to answer why eventually, but it could have to do with how they arrived there.

[Drakevarg]

Given my overall taste for low-magic and occult tones where the mere presence of magic is always a plot point in some way, I really don't want to go with any solution that boils down to "and then magic happened so the problem went away," or arbitrary stat boosts so the problem, again, just goes away.

To me, magic is the exact opposite of a clever solution because rather than figuring out which string to pull on the Gordian Knot, you simply cut through it by arbitrarily manifesting a solution out of whole cloth.

Edit: To preemptively head off accusations that I'm playing the wrong system or that low-magic is a suicidal idea in D&D (God knows I've had that conversation enough times on this forum)... this is precisely why I'm playing E6. Additionally, my time running nWoD campaigns has left me with a greater appreciation for designing scenarios narratively rather than according to mechanical expectations, so just because by-the-book play breaks down without magic being so trivially commonplace that even your toothbrush is +1, doesn't mean my game will.

[Elkad]

I would hardly call a caravel a "smallish" ship. It takes more than half a dozen deckhands to run it with any proficiency. This party of five might be able to pull it off with some effort, but not terribly efficiency, especially since (as of the most recent chargen progress) only one of them has any clue what they're doing.

I missed his followup of Caravel. (watch crew of 7, and that's pretty thin if you need to do something like change sails)

A Cog has a watch crew of 4, much better. Which in practice will be 2 and 2 on split watches (and a skill penalty for the easy stuff), and waking everyone up for all-hands evolutions.

[ottdmk]

I don't suppose you have an Incarnate in your group? Or, if you're starting off at slightly higher level, a L4+ Soulborn? Either one could solve the problem easily. :smallbiggrin:

[BaronDoctor]

Any bard characters with the Bardic Knack ACF (trading in Bardic Knowledge) get half their level to all skills instead. That would include Profession Sailor. The Jack of All Trades feat (Int 13) gives a character a half-rank in all skills, allowing trained uses. Not-requiring-magic? Check. Interesting Character? Check.

[Goaty14]

I mean, figuring out how to use a boat shouldn't be particularly hard, given that it is common knowledge that if you turn a steering wheel right; the rudder makes the boat go right, and if the sails are down, the boat moves, if the boat shouldn't be moving, then put up the sails and let down the anchor, etc.

Its not rocket science, unless if the highest mental ability score is 9

[Sayt]

Hmm, discounted/somewhat nerfed version of Skeleton Crew (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/skeleton-crew/)?

[Elkad]

I mean, figuring out how to use a boat shouldn't be particularly hard, given that it is common knowledge that if you turn a steering wheel right; the rudder makes the boat go right, and if the sails are down, the boat moves, if the boat shouldn't be moving, then put up the sails and let down the anchor, etc.

Its not rocket science, unless if the highest mental ability score is 9

Using it well is a completely different thing though. Want to change tacks? It takes coordination and skill, or you end up facing dead upwind and stopping.
Or you can do it the easy way and gybe about - which means turning left-left-left to go right (and backtracking a bit as you do that) - assuming you have room.

In a channel, even small mistakes can lead to hitting the hard edges. Which ranges from bad (low-ish tide, gently aground on sand, just wait a few hours) to really bad (hit rocks and knock a hole below the waterline), to catastrophic (hit rocks and break up).

In a storm, either you go super-conservative on sails (meaning you give up a lot of speed), or you make a mistake and shred them (or worse things, like breaking masts, or even capsizing the ship).

In a square-rigged ship, a tiny difference in trimming the sails effectively may mean you can't work upwind at all. It's even worse if the ship is setup for fighting with high forecastles and sterncastles.
Even if you can get upwind somewhat, the distance you have to travel left<>right to go forward gets ridiculous. 100 miles traveled for 10 miles of progress. A better crew in the same ship might double that.

[Vogie]

If you do want to use skeletons to crew the craft, there's a Skeleton Anchor (http://archivesofnethys.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Skeleton Anchor) that generates up to 28 crew members that last a week, every week. If the PCs wake up on a ship with such an anchor, that would work.

Alternatively, have the ship be a magical object, or contain an object (perhaps the wheel, belt, or a hat) that generates Unseen Crew (http://archivesofnethys.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Unseen Crew) so that a single bearer or wielder can control the ship by his or her self. You can even create an introduce a Sword of Triton (http://pirates.wikia.com/wiki/Sword_of_Triton) artifact, or a toned-down version of it for only this one ship

[Drakevarg]

The Sword of Triton idea is a neat one, but I think I'll save that for a later plot hook.

As-is, I think the matter is largely under control. The party may not be capable sailors, but one of them knows at least enough of the basics to get the ship moving in the general direction he wants it to if he instructs the others on what to do. Based on my current projections, as long as their luck holds and they don't do anything incomprehensibly suicidal they'll make landfall somewhere eventually, whatever approach they take.

[Nifft]

1/ Dive into ocean and wrestle the giant sea-worm.

2/ Pin open the sea-worm's blow-hole so it doesn't submerge.

3/ Yoke the sea-worm to the prow.

4/ Become the kwisatz haddock.

[johnbragg]

I mean, figuring out how to use a boat shouldn't be particularly hard, given that it is common knowledge that if you turn a steering wheel right; the rudder makes the boat go right, and if the sails are down, the boat moves, if the boat shouldn't be moving, then put up the sails and let down the anchor, etc.

Its not rocket science, unless if the highest mental ability score is 9

Curious, have you ever sailed a ship?

Because this sounds like "anything I don't know how to do can't be THAT hard."

[Elkad]

Curious, have you ever sailed a ship?

Because this sounds like "anything I don't know how to do can't be THAT hard."

I have, and it really is that easy. As long as the weather is perfect, you aren't near the hard edges of the ocean, and the wind isn't blowing directly from the direction you want to go.
It's the equivalent of driving down an empty freeway. Any idjit can manage that.

But it's never that way for long. Oh, and something important breaks EVERY DAY, and you have to figure out how to fix it (or do without).