Rules of creating puddles with create water?

[RoboEmperor]

I've decided to try out the Water Devotion feat. It summons a small water elemental at levels 1-5, and I can do it 6 times a day. Problem is though, water elementals receive a -4 to attack and damage if either the elemental or the target are touching ground.

So... my thoughts were, create puddles! Big puddles! Puddles that are at least 10ft long and 5ft wide! With the cantrip spell Create Water that is. That way instead of a -4 to attack damage, Water Elementals receive a +1 to attack and damage! That's a +5 attack and damage difference!!!!!

I tried to look up fluid spread mechanics, but it was no help >.<. College level physics is too hard for a non-physics major who has no plans of becoming a physics major.

Anyone know if such rules exist for d&d?

Create Water says 8 gallons of water = 1cft of water. How deep is a puddle? How many gallons of water does it take to create a 5 square feet puddle? How does the terrain affect the puddle size?

[Lvl 2 Expert]

On a flat and smooth surface a puddle is probably only a few ml thick, a 10 by 5 foot puddle needs maybe 150*300*1/3=15,000 cm^2=15 liters or 4 gallons of water. Although I have no idea what would happen if an elemental tried to stand on that thin film without touching the ground.

But your average dungeon does not have a flat and smooth surface. If there are holes or dents the water will run into those. A dirt floor can take the water up, or mix with it to make mud, grass will stick out above the water (although that doesn't count as earth supposedly, so that's okay). If you're on a slope of any sort, forget it. In all other circumstances I'd say you'd need at least 4 times as much water as I estimated before. So 8 gallons per combat square, as a bit of a minimum.

[RoboEmperor]

edit:deleted cause I misread the rules.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

If I google it I get 7.48 gallon in a cubic foot, 28.32 liter in a cubic foot (the value you used) and 3.79 liter in a gallon.

Assuming the source you're citing is not a typo that meant to say 5 cubic feet is 80 gallon (or 8 gallon is 0.5 cubic feet), then yes, sure, a d&d gallon is 10 gallon. EDIT: Nope, this is all wrong, a D&D gallon would be 5 gallon, which would make the typo a lot weirder.

Friggin Americans, always pulling this ****. Just when we think we know what they're talking about they introduce another unit of measurement with the same name as at least one old one.

EDIT: By the way, the online SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/createWater.htm) for D20 gives a weight of about 8 pounds for a gallon, which corresponds to a normal gallon, unless a pound is also ten times as big in d&d or water is just really light there. Confusingly enough, it does named cubic feet, but here is claims a single cubic foot is about 8 gallon, which would work with the normal values for everything.

[RoboEmperor]

If I google it I get 7.48 gallon in a cubic foot, 28.32 liter in a cubic foot (the value you used) and 3.79 liter in a gallon.

Assuming the source you're citing is not a typo that meant to say 5 cubic feet is 80 gallon (or 8 gallon is 0.5 cubic feet), then yes, sure, a d&d gallon is 10 gallon. EDIT: Nope, this is all wrong, a D&D gallon would be 5 gallon, which would make the typo a lot weirder.

Friggin Americans, always pulling this ****. Just when we think we know what they're talking about they introduce another unit of measurement with the same name as at least one old one.

EDIT: By the way, the online SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/createWater.htm) for D20 gives a weight of about 8 pounds for a gallon, which corresponds to a normal gallon, unless a pound is also ten times as big in d&d or water is just really light there. Confusingly enough, it does named cubic feet, but here is claims a single cubic foot is about 8 gallon, which would work with the normal values for everything.

My bad, I am sleep deprived right now, waiting for my dryer to finish drying my bed sheets before I can hit the hay.

Many apologies, I can't believe I read the rules that incorrectly. Where did I pull up 5cft from o_O. Seriously, sorry.

1cft = 8 gallons = 60lbs, but 1 gallon = 8lbs, so... we are missing 4 lbs!

Imma delete my other post which is just stupid nonsense. Thanks for your input. Imma still fish around to see if someone can give me a smaller amount of gallons per 5sft puddle XD.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

My bad, I am sleep deprived right now, waiting for my dryer to finish drying my bed sheets before I can hit the hay.

Many apologies, I can't believe I read the rules that incorrectly. Where did I pull up 5cft from o_O. Seriously, sorry.

Imma delete my other post which is just stupid nonsense.

As you noted by all the edits, my post wasn't much better.


1cft = 8 gallons = 60lbs, but 1 gallon = 8lbs, so... we are missing 4 lbs!

A wizard did it!

Or someone who liked round numbers...

[RoboEmperor]

I guess I have to wait until i get my hands on a decanter of endless water OR...
Wall of water, except instead of a vertical wall it'll be a horizontal wall, so its a really wide shallow pool of water rather than a wall.

[Darrin]

Hmmm. I'm not so sure this is a physics problem as it would be a hydrology problem... it would depend a great deal on the type of terrain and how quickly it could absorb the water. On solid rock it would spread out, but on something like sand or dirt... I have no idea how you'd calculate that.

How about ice? That's "water", just in solid form. The ice slick spell in Frostburn creates a 20' x 20' patch of slippery ice. However... I think that still counts as "ground"? So I'm not sure what the exact bonus/penalty would be.

[RoboEmperor]

Hmmm. I'm not so sure this is a physics problem as it would be a hydrology problem... it would depend a great deal on the type of terrain and how quickly it could absorb the water. On solid rock it would spread out, but on something like sand or dirt... I have no idea how you'd calculate that.

How about ice? That's "water", just in solid form. The ice slick spell in Frostburn creates a 20' x 20' patch of slippery ice. However... I think that still counts as "ground"? So I'm not sure what the exact bonus/penalty would be.

Wall of Water in Sandstorm solves my problem.

Thinking fluff wise, i don't think shallow tiny puddles from create water would qualify. The water should be at least some what deep so the Water Elemental can like, submerge in it and pop out elsewhere for Water Mastery to kick in. Water Mastery is about either the Water Elemental being stunted in an uncomfortable environment and hard to maneuver in it, or thriving in a environment thats essentially a part of it and "flying" around at astounding swim speed. Being trapped in tiny shallow puddles I think would still be hard for them to maneuver in it. I'm not even sure heavy rain from Axiomatic/Anarchic/Holy/Unholy storm would qualify unless the rain is torrential and creates a small flood.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

On second thought (and ignoring the very good point from your last post, because I'm on a roll here) there is something to be said for some types of uneven terrains needing less water for this than smooth surfaces.

The space a creature takes up is the total amount of room the creature and their weapon claim as their own while engaging in combat. If that person trains for the right footwork they can probably pretty much always stand in a puddle with just a handful of small puddles within that whole area. They just need to step on the right place. On uneven terrain the water will automatically gather in certain places. If the terrain contains dents it could conveniently gather much of the water in them, letting a water walking elemental fight without touching the ground.

(But yeah, your reading of the rules is very probably better.)

[Deophaun]

1cft = 8 gallons = 60lbs, but 1 gallon = 8lbs, so... we are missing 4 lbs!
If math made sense, there would be no magic.