Ascetic Paladin, Mystic Ranger (spellcasting feats)

[rferries]

Ascetic Paladin
Your strict religious discipline exceeds even that of your fellow paladins, and has granted you miraculous spellcasting powers.

Prerequisites
Paladin level 6th, Concentration 9 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 9 ranks.

Benefits
Add Spellcraft to your list of paladin class skills.

Your paladin spellcasting now grants spells per day as a bard of your paladin level. Your paladin caster level increases to equal your paladin level.

Your primary spellcasting attribute for paladin spells (when determining save DCs, bonus spells, and similar effects) is either your Charisma modifier or your Wisdom modifier, whichever is greater.

Special
This feat may grant you spell slots higher than 4th level. You may use these slots to prepare lower-level spells and spells that have been modified with metamagic feats.


Greater Ascetic Paladin
Your spellcasting powers almost rival those of your clerical brethren.

Prerequisites
Paladin level 9th, Ascetic Paladin, Concentration 12 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 12 ranks.

Benefits
Add all spells of the Community, Glory, Good, Healing, Law, Liberation, Nobility, Protection, Repose, Strength, and War domains to your paladin class spell list.

You may spontaneously cast cure spells using your paladin spell slots, as a cleric.

You may turn undead as a cleric of your paladin level (rather than a cleric three levels lower).

Mystic Ranger
Through meditation and quiet observation, you have become more in tune with the magic of nature.

Prerequisites
Ranger level 6th, Concentration 9 ranks, Knowledge (nature) 9 ranks.

Benefits
Add Spellcraft to your list of ranger class skills.

Your ranger spellcasting now grants spells per day as a bard of your ranger level. Your ranger caster level increases to equal your ranger level.

When making Handle Animal and wild empathy checks, use either your Charisma modifier or your Wisdom modifier, whichever is greater.

Special
This feat may grant you ranger spell slots higher than 4th level. You may use these slots to prepare lower-level spells and spells that have been modified with metamagic feats.


Greater Mystic Ranger
Your spellcasting powers almost rival those of your druidic brethren.

Prerequisites
Ranger level 9th, Mystic Ranger, Concentration 12 ranks, Knowledge (nature) 12 ranks.

Benefits
Add all spells of the Air, Animal, Earth, Fire, Plant, Scalykind, Sun, Travel, Trickery, Water, and Weather domains to your ranger class spell list.

You may spontaneously cast summon nature's ally spells using your ranger spell slots, as a druid.

Your effective druid level for your animal companion increases to equal your ranger level (rather than one-half your ranger level).

[Cosi]

First, these feats are stupid better than anything else you could be doing with your feats as a Ranger or Paladin. I don't disapprove, as those classes suck normally and even giving them Bard casting doesn't really clear "okay" on its own. But that is something you should be aware you've done.

Second, you should give some options for 5th and 6th level spells for the initial feats. As it stands, you have to take a second feat (either this of Sword of the Arcane Order, or something else) to get part of your first feat to work, which I think is bad.

Third, the Paladin one may prove to be a little too good with Battle Blessing, depending on optimization level.

Overall, a pretty good step forward for these classes. I think this is about where their casting should be, and further fixes (which I do think are still needed) should buff their class features somehow.

[Knitifine]

These feats are good. But like the poster above, I think maybe you should just give them 6th level casting in your campaign with the spell list you've effectively created by combining domain lists. Paladins and Rangers are both iconic classes that could use a little boost in 3.5e

[rferries]

First, these feats are stupid better than anything else you could be doing with your feats as a Ranger or Paladin. I don't disapprove, as those classes suck normally and even giving them Bard casting doesn't really clear "okay" on its own. But that is something you should be aware you've done.

Second, you should give some options for 5th and 6th level spells for the initial feats. As it stands, you have to take a second feat (either this of Sword of the Arcane Order, or something else) to get part of your first feat to work, which I think is bad.

Third, the Paladin one may prove to be a little too good with Battle Blessing, depending on optimization level.

Overall, a pretty good step forward for these classes. I think this is about where their casting should be, and further fixes (which I do think are still needed) should buff their class features somehow.

Yeah, they may work better as automatic houserules rather than feat taxes; or perhaps I could add another feat or two into the chain so that you have to make a huge investment of your build to get the benefits.

The 5th and 6th level spell slots can be used to prepare lower-level spells (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#wizardSpellSlots) or metamagicked spells, as noted under "Special", so they're not useless (though they become much better with the spells granted by the Greater feats).

Hmmm I had forgotten Battle Blessing. Your DM would have to make a ruling on that and similar feats if they use my versions.


These feats are good. But like the poster above, I think maybe you should just give them 6th level casting in your campaign with the spell list you've effectively created by combining domain lists. Paladins and Rangers are both iconic classes that could use a little boost in 3.5e

Yes that may be the simplest solution.

Thanks guys for the feedback!

[Cosi]

Yeah, they may work better as automatic houserules rather than feat taxes; or perhaps I could add another feat or two into the chain so that you have to make a huge investment of your build to get the benefits.

They should probably be class fixes. If you add any more feats, it starts taking up a majority of the character's feats to get the casting online. The only real benefit to the "feats" solution is reducing the effect at low levels.


The 5th and 6th level spell slots can be used to prepare lower-level spells (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#wizardSpellSlots) or metamagicked spells, as noted under "Special", so they're not useless (though they become much better with the spells granted by the Greater feats).

Not totally, but pretty bad IMHO. More lower level spells or metamagic'd spells is not really inspiring.

[rferries]

They should probably be class fixes. If you add any more feats, it starts taking up a majority of the character's feats to get the casting online. The only real benefit to the "feats" solution is reducing the effect at low levels.

Righto!


Not totally, but pretty bad IMHO. More lower level spells or metamagic'd spells is not really inspiring.

Yes... but I felt that giving them extra spells on their list would be a step too far for a feat that's already very powerful. It's more incentive to take the Greater version too. The order of the feats could be reversed - the base feat could add the domain spells, and the Greater version could allow access to bard spells per day.

I think I'll post revised versions of the paladin and ranger (and maybe bard too) to incorporate these changes.