Lycanthrope animal skill points

[Little Beast]

Hi everyone. When becoming afflicted by lycanthropy, can a character immediately dump skill points from the animal hit dice into the newly attained class skill Control Shape?

[DrMotives]

Sure can. Since it says it's a class skill, it looks like per RAW it's always a class skill once the character is aware of their condition. Skill points from levels in "animal" are as normal, with whatever that animals skill list is. Which would include Control Shape, after the character knows they're afflicted.

[Necroticplague]

Yeah, why wouldn't they? Heck, non-lycanthropes can pick up the skill cross-class, even if it's not very useful.

[KillianHawkeye]

Sure can. Since it says it's a class skill, it looks like per RAW it's always a class skill once the character is aware of their condition. Skill points from levels in "animal" are as normal, with whatever that animals skill list is. Which would include Control Shape, after the character knows they're afflicted.

But don't you have to gain the Hit Dice (and the skill points) before you become aware of your "condition"?

[Little Beast]

Thanks for the input folks. Seems to make sense to me too. Was just a little uncertain about technicalities. I love dnd.

[Necroticplague]

But don't you have to gain the Hit Dice (and the skill points) before you become aware of your "condition"?

If you knew you were fighting a werewolf, and you got bit, you'd be aware of your condition the same moment you got the template.

[KillianHawkeye]

If you knew you were fighting a werewolf, and you got bit, you'd be aware of your condition the same moment you got the template.

You might suspect it, but would you really (in character) know it? Doesn't it make sense that you have to have experience in changing to your new form(s) before you can learn to control it? Maybe it isn't RAW, but I'm pretty sure it's the intended functionality.

[Mr Adventurer]

Hm, Exemplars and Factotums can buy it at normal rates too.

[Celestia]

Hm, Exemplars and Factotums can buy it at normal rates too.
Also Experts and Human Paragons.

[Crake]

If you knew you were fighting a werewolf, and you got bit, you'd be aware of your condition the same moment you got the template.

The lycanthope as an affliction section is pretty clear that to become "aware" you must succeed on a DC15 wisdom check while involuntarily shifted. Until then you can be informed, you can suspect, but you are not "aware", as in, you do not retain any memories of your time shifted essentially blacking out every time you're involuntarily forced into animal state. Only upon succeeding that wisdom check can you begin to try and control your form.

[Thurbane]

Also Experts and Human Paragons.

Well, if we're going for completeness, also Savants.

[Little Beast]

Again thanks for the input. Fortunately for me my dm is being liberal with the specifics. There is a little room for interpretation in all rules and this was no different. My dm is going to allow me to rank control shape and try to control my affliction. It's all about having fun anyway right? Happy gaming folks!

[Mr Adventurer]

There's also a difference between what the character knows and what the player knows. Seems cromulent to me that the player gets to select the character's skill points without the necessity of the character's full understanding.

[Little Beast]

If I tell you there's a fly on your head, chances are you would swat at it. The class skill come with the affliction. Being completely "aware" as in the text is pretty clear. Not until after an involuntary change do I have even a remote chance of control shape. But, I am still afflicted and subject to ALL of it penalties and bonuses granted by the class. I have the bonus hit dice, feats base attack bonus and skills of the lycanthrope. The situation was this, we killed a lycanthrope, it reverted to half elf form upon death. A little research made us aware that I was afflicted. I can prepare. Idk. I mean, you can multiclass into a warmage and get all of their abilities even if you never went to a college. Same with the wizard or a cleric and their church. I guess my group feels that this isn't any different. Thanks again for the input. Nice to have others to sound off to.

[Crake]

If I tell you there's a fly on your head, chances are you would swat at it. The class skill come with the affliction. Being completely "aware" as in the text is pretty clear. Not until after an involuntary change do I have even a remote chance of control shape. But, I am still afflicted and subject to ALL of it penalties and bonuses granted by the class. I have the bonus hit dice, feats base attack bonus and skills of the lycanthrope. The situation was this, we killed a lycanthrope, it reverted to half elf form upon death. A little research made us aware that I was afflicted. I can prepare. Idk. I mean, you can multiclass into a warmage and get all of their abilities even if you never went to a college. Same with the wizard or a cleric and their church. I guess my group feels that this isn't any different. Thanks again for the input. Nice to have others to sound off to.

Are you saying you get the abilities upon becoming infected? Because I'm fairly sure you don't get the bonus HD and all that until after the first turn. The section on lycanthropy as an affliction is quite clear, until the first full moon no symptoms appear. That means you don't get any of the abilities, you don't turn from being damaged (keep in mind, from now on, every time you take damage you will involuntarily turn unless you succeed on a DC25 control shape check), none of those things happen until after the next full moon.

[Little Beast]

Quite fortunately for me, the infection happened 2 hours before the next full moon. So it seems that technically I will change tonight(in game time). I agree that I would not actually gain any benefit from affliction until after that time, successful wisdom check or not. Thats were the quandary is, aware or not, the moment of affliction is upon me. My group agrees completely, I will not have any chance of control at the first change. But the next morning, my character IS a were boar. So am I legitimately able to dump a bunch of ranks into control shape? Specifically, it states lycanthropes can learn this as a class skill and I haven't seen specifically that I MUST place skills into the animals skills, pretty much listen and spot. It seems that the moment I become a lycanthrope (after the first change), I can do whatever I want to with the skill points. That's just our thoughts.