PDA

View Full Version : Does this exist?



Chimera245
2017-08-12, 08:34 AM
Is there a VTT out there somewhere that has 3d battlemaps?

And I don't mean as a purely visual thing, like "look, this flat, one-story dungeon has vertical walls and 3d models of furniture", I mean like where how high your character can climb or jump will matter for navigating the terrain. Like the battlefields in a game like Final Fantasy Tactics.

I'm thinking the simplest way to achieve this would be something voxel-based, like the way Minecraft terrain is represented. (The grid-like cube-ness of voxels would also mesh well with tactical combat...)

Or, failing that, is there perhaps an actual mod to Minecraft that would effectively turn it into a tactical battlefield?

I've been searching and googling since yesterday, and no luck so far. Anyone have any ideas?

The ability to use in-game character stats and dice macros would be a plus, but I'll take whatever I can get.

Chimera245
2017-08-12, 12:37 PM
Yay, pictures to get my point across better.

Because this:
https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/4/49/Zirekile-battlefield.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/300?cb=20080319195010

is infinitely better than this:
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54e57631e4b0450c1805daad/t/554da25fe4b026a2b08a6f31/1431151211229/

I basically want this, but with less foam and cardboard, and more 1's and 0's:
http://stuffershack.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/hornedhold07.jpg

So, is there such a thing? If not, how close can I get?

Haldir
2017-08-12, 05:27 PM
Is there a VTT out there somewhere that has 3d battlemaps?

The closest I've seen is a game called TableTop Simulator, which available through Steam. It lets you use a lot of models, but I have yet to see a decent 3d map build out of it.

Chimera245
2017-08-12, 06:04 PM
Yeah, I've got Tabletop simulator, but it's just not what I want. To have a 3d map you have to literally stack the dungeon pieces on top of each other in a game that has gravity and physics...

And when you're done, you get a bunch of stacked up dungeon tiles instead of an epic gothic cathedral to an elder god from outside the universe.

Also, no in-game calculation of stats or dice macros...

Well, if that's a bust, is there any good VTT for that pseudo-45-degree-angle-depth from the earlier JRPGs?

Like this:
http://ian-albert.com/games/final_fantasy_ii_maps/full/ff2-castle_baron.png

But in a way that will intelligently calculate distance and pseudo-height?

Hypersmith
2017-08-13, 11:01 AM
I don't know about intelligent distance etc, but this (https://hobbyte.net/) makes isometric maps. If you want more like the second image and are willing to drop money on it, RPG maker (http://www.rpgmakerweb.com/) will let you make the maps (as well as a lot of other stuff).

Haldir
2017-08-13, 01:03 PM
Yeah, I've got Tabletop simulator, but it's just not what I want. To have a 3d map you have to literally stack the dungeon pieces on top of each other in a game that has gravity and physics...

And when you're done, you get a bunch of stacked up dungeon tiles instead of an epic gothic cathedral to an elder god from outside the universe.

Also, no in-game calculation of stats or dice macros...

Well, if that's a bust, is there any good VTT for that pseudo-45-degree-angle-depth from the earlier JRPGs?

Like this:
http://ian-albert.com/games/final_fantasy_ii_maps/full/ff2-castle_baron.png

But in a way that will intelligently calculate distance and pseudo-height?

Yes, there are ways to do it, but are you trying to network this to different players or are you guys going to be using a centralized location with a single machine?

Chimera245
2017-08-14, 07:21 AM
Probably networked. But I haven't actually gotten any specific group of people together yet, so I don't know for sure.

I am a bit curious now about why that would make a difference. How would I set that up?

Haldir
2017-08-14, 03:28 PM
Probably networked. But I haven't actually gotten any specific group of people together yet, so I don't know for sure.

I am a bit curious now about why that would make a difference. How would I set that up?

Networked, might be rough. Minecraft would be your best (easiest) bet, heavily modded and skinned up, of course. I would maybe consider doing a 3d model or a primitive RPG builder program and screensharing, but the player would not be able to interact in any meaningful way, and you may not have the skill to do a 3D model in CAD.

I've considered the idea of building the 3d maps and using the modeling software itself as the gamespace, with everyone gathered around a large monitor, but I do admit this is a TON of work and have not yet successfully tried it, which would only work with a machine in a analogue D&D session.

N810
2017-08-14, 03:57 PM
Do you mean like Isometric maps ?
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/71/9d/2b/719d2b48baab8f22a110b1c31f09c371.jpg
https://68.media.tumblr.com/9ccdcc0044eab226a5fcaae09a8229b2/tumblr_ochsyyxqzL1qkpz2go1_r1_500.jpg
http://1zl0mp2pjotb1miw5i17vw1t.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Example_BitmapB.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/77/a3/c6/77a3c6de03b3122ae3e3abeb3307e455.jpg

Chimera245
2017-08-15, 12:49 PM
Basically I want three things:

1: something with the visual appeal of playing a Final Fantasy game. Something where you can actually appreciate the scenery, and not merely keep track of who's where.
2: depth of terrain being important and varied. As in climbing and jumping and traversing stairs and ladders. Having to worry about whether your sword can reach far up/down enough to hit your target.
3: the computer doing all the work for crunching numbers for the characters. If your strength increases, all your strength-dependent stats are updated automatically. If your HP goes negative, the game automatically gives the 'dying', and 'prone' conditions to the target. Macros for everyone!

Ideally I would have true 3D maps, but it doesn't seem there are any good options for that.

I toyed with the idea of Orthographic maps, like you'd see in any Final Fantasy between 1 and 6. The advantage would be that mechanically, it's still just a bunch of squares, so any VTT worth a crap would be able to work with it. But I was hoping to find a way for the game to know when a specific tile represented an offset "adjacent" tile that was at a higher/lower elevation. That doesn't seem to be an option, though.
But if I was willing to calculate movement myself instead of getting the computer to do it for me, Orthographic became a much more viable option. I even downloaded some tools to help create such maps more quickly.

Then I found out Maptool now supports Isometric maps. (though they're kinda buggy) A well designed Isometric map is the next best thing to an actual 3D one, and if I'm still giving up on having the computer doing my movement for me, then Isometric seems like the best option.

Right now, I'm in the middle of drawing up some generic-looking Isometric battlefields. But if there's another better way out there somewhere, I'm all ears.

N810
2017-08-15, 01:01 PM
There is a pretty big D&D community over at
"Tabletop Simulator" on Steam.
it's a physics based 3d board game simulator,
with a ton of free mods. some even have animated models.

https://youtu.be/jtsPXM-OzpE

Algeh
2017-08-15, 03:08 PM
You might want to look at video games with level creators and multiplayer options. I haven't played anything along those lines for long enough that I can't suggest anything specific, but it sounds like you'd basically like to create and adjudicate the "plot" for your game while having your program do a lot of the "make the world real" work, so you might find more options by approaching this problem by looking at more videogames than just Minecraft and see if any of them have a good set of tools for this sort of thing.

You might try making a thread in the Gaming (Other) forum here and see if anyone could suggest a game that lent itself to modding in such a way.

Anxe
2017-08-26, 11:33 AM
I knew of one, but couldn't remember it until now. Talespire. I think it does all you want. I'm interested in it myself too. Unfortunately it looks like it's stuck in developer hell.

Gnoman
2017-08-26, 05:12 PM
I'm pretty sure the latest versions of Maptool are including some version of this feature, but I have no idea how it works because I have no interest in it.

JeenLeen
2017-08-27, 02:04 PM
You might like the map-modding tools with the game Telepath Tactics. You can buy it via Steam, but the author might also sell non-DRM versions.
I don't think the graphics are quite on par with what you'd like, but it does utilize height. Falling damage is a thing built into the system, and I think some characters can jump better than others.

I used the maptool a little bit. My main critique about the height issue is that sometimes it is hard to tell how different the heights are when looking at the map. That is, the map looks more like the pseudo-45-degree-angle-depth than Final Fantasy Tactics' maps, although the depth is really built into the system.

However, I don't know if you could export the maps to use in another game/VTT. I guess you could design characters with the move and jump values of your PCs and NPCs, and just have them move around in the map while you track damage and stuff elsewhere, but that seems non-ideal. I hope one of the things other posters mentioned works.

Anxe
2017-08-27, 08:08 PM
Wartile is another one like Talespire. It's not out of development yet either, but there's an early access available for $20.

Knaight
2017-08-28, 05:06 AM
Yeah, I've got Tabletop simulator, but it's just not what I want. To have a 3d map you have to literally stack the dungeon pieces on top of each other in a game that has gravity and physics...

You can import 3D models directly into tabletop simulator, and there's a few good and free options for finding/making these, depending on how much time you want to put into it. Notably:
Sketchup Make: It's easy to use, works really well for most things (I don't like it for anything involving a lot of complex curves, but for anything even vaguelly architectural it's excellent), and also has an extensive model library.
Blender: Blender is more powerful than Sketchup, but it has a horrific learning curve and is easier to get rusty on. It's also worse for architectural and engineering purposes, but is a much better tool for 3D art in general, being a dedicated 3D art program and not a CAD program.
Thingiverse: This is one of the big collections of 3D models, and the fact that they're all designed to be actually printed imposes a certain level of quality control and makes it much more likely they work on a table.



With this, instead of stacking the pieces on top of each other you import one big model and call it a day.