Lichdom Spells

[demonslayerelf]

Hello all! IT'S ME!
I'm here today to bring everyone a few ideas for what a Lichdom Ritual would actually look like, for all you evil necromancers who think Vampirism is too 90's, and who don't enjoy selling your soul to Orcus.

9th-level Necromancy

Casting Time: 24 Hours(Ritual)
Range: Self
Components: V, S, M(30,000 Gold of powdered diamonds, in addition to a prepared Phylactery made of gold, diamond, platinum, and other gems, worth an additional 30,000- 1,000 Gold per Level the Wizard possesses.)
Duration: Instantaneous

Before the Ritual may take place, the Wizard must have a Clone(As per the spell, Clone) of themselves created, and present through the entire ritual, in addition to the previously mentioned Phylactery prepared, which bears a 9th-level Glyph of Warding, which contains the Imprisonment spell. The Wizard must then perform the 24 hour long Ritual, an intense period in which the Wizard's very life force is slowly sucked out of them. Each hour, the soon-to-be Lich must make an Intelligence Saving Throw against their own Spell DC. Each failure causes the Wizard to take 1d10 Necrotic and 1d10 Psychic damage, which cannot be reduced, or half as much on a successful save. If the Wizard is still living at the end of this period, they then use the Glyph of Warding to seal their souls within their new Phylactery. They do not make a Wisdom Saving Throw, and they fail automatically.

The Wizard will instantly die, and their soul will be trapped in their Phylactery, while their consciousness will then transfer to their Clone, which will finally complete the ritual by casting Create Undead on both itself and the Phylactery; No material components are necessary for these castings.


If this ritual is interrupted at any time, particularly by some meddlesome adventurers, the ritual is suspended, but not necessarily ruined, as long as the Lich stays within 60 feet of their Phylactery and Clone, and doesn't die.

9th-level Necromancy

Casting Time: 24 Hours(Ritual)
Range: Self
Components: V, S, M(20,000 Gold of diamond dust, at least 10 Platinum Bands, each worth 2,000 Gold)
Duration: Instantaneous

The Baelnorn must be an Elf or Half-elf. The Ritual requires the Baelnorn to stand in the center of a large circle drawn with the diamond dust. Ten people who the Baelnorn respect, love, or care for will then stand around the circle, each wearing a Platinum Band. Over the course of 24 hours, each of these people will list everything the Baelnorn means to them, their families, clans, societies, etc. Every major deed, task, or action the elf has taken, and each they have been tasked with. At the end of this period, each creature rolls 1d20, adding the Baelnorn's Spellcasting modifier(If they do not cast spells, use their Wisdom Modifier.) The DC is 20. If 5 or more of these are successes, the ritual succeeds, and the Baelnorn is then tasked with a purpose that will carry through their Unlife. If 6 or more fail this check, the Baelnorn receives 10d10 Psychic Damage, and the ritual fails.

9th-level Necromancy

Casting Time: 1 Hour
Range: Self
Components: V, S, M(A priceless item which the Wizard has deep emotional ties to, a human sacrifice)
Duration: Instantaneous

Before the Ritual may take place, the Wizard must have at least one creature who's alignment is within one step of the Wizard's, and who is(Or, was, rather) an ally or friend of the Wizard. The Wizard must spend one long, painstaking hour, slowly torturing the victim, before finally killing them at the end of the hour. The Wizard then makes a Wisdom Saving Throw, the DC is 30, reduced by their Intelligence Modifier, then further reduced by their Wizard Levels. If the Lich fails this saving throw, the spell fails, and the Wizard is incapacitated and crying out of grief and guilt for 1 hour. If the Lich succeeds, they feel nothing but the cold sense of satisfaction that they were successful. A piece of the Lich's soul is transferred into their chosen item, which then becomes a Phylactery(Or, Horcrux.)

A Lich may cast this spell any number of times, thereby creating more Phylacteries, however each casting beyond the first lowers the Lich's Constitution by 2, which is cumulative.
As long as a Lich has at least one remaining Phylactery, they may not be completely killed. Whenever their body is destroyed, the Lich comes under the effect of Astral Projection, with the following exceptions;
The Lich remains on the Material Plane. The Lich may not cast spells or take actions that would effect the Material Plane, aside from the following exception. The Lich may perform an hour long Ritual which requires the Lich to be within 120 feet of one of their Phylacteries, in addition to at least 5000 Gold in gold, platinum, and diamonds. This is treated in all other ways as the Clone Spell.

Feedback is always appreciated!

[JNAProductions]

Duration should be instantaneous, not permanent.

And overall, they feel too easy. The second two especially, but the first one deals (on average, assuming every save is failed) 132 damage. Your average Wizard has 82 on Hit Dice alone, meaning they need only +2 Con mod to survive it on average (again, assuming every save is failed, and they should pass 15.6 of them).

Also, by making an Intelligence save against your own Wizard Spell DC, you need to roll an 8+. Every time. Because you add your Intelligence and proficiency bonus to your spell DC, and your Intelligence and your proficiency bonus to your Intelligence save. I guess it's harder for people without Intelligence save proficiency? But still. Not likely.

Edit: Since it's always an 8+ to succeed, you have around a 1/4 chance of living through this at 10 Con.

[rferries]

I'm not familiar with 5th edition but I like the lore - the clone is an inspired touch!

[demonslayerelf]

Duration should be instantaneous, not permanent.

And overall, they feel too easy. The second two especially, but the first one deals (on average, assuming every save is failed) 132 damage. Your average Wizard has 82 on Hit Dice alone, meaning they need only +2 Con mod to survive it on average (again, assuming every save is failed, and they should pass 15.6 of them).

Also, by making an Intelligence save against your own Wizard Spell DC, you need to roll an 8+. Every time. Because you add your Intelligence and proficiency bonus to your spell DC, and your Intelligence and your proficiency bonus to your Intelligence save. I guess it's harder for people without Intelligence save proficiency? But still. Not likely.

Edit: Since it's always an 8+ to succeed, you have around a 1/4 chance of living through this at 10 Con.

Fixed the duration deal, because, ya know. Mistakes happen.

As for the point of it being too easy, the damage is 264 on average, if you failed every save. I looked back at the damage, and realize I was a little unclear on that; You suffer 1d10 necrotic, and 1d10 psychic. At 20th level, your Wizard's average health is 73(How did you even get 82?), then your constitution bonus. It also takes 24 hours to cast, and you have to maintain concentration, while remaining within 60 feet of the phylactery and clone for the entire time, and use every action in the entire time to get it done. If literally anything goes wrong, and assuming you have enough health to even try, you fail. Even in success, it takes multiple 9th level spells, hundreds of thousands of gold pieces(And just try to justify to the blacksmith why you need a gem-encrusted golden skull worth tens of thousands of gold pieces.)

So, the first one, is really effing hard. Technically the only thing at risk is money and time, since you have to have a clone, but there's a lot of room for error, even when there ISN'T an adventurer in the room- Try defending yourself for 24 hours with no actions, without moving more than 60 feet away, and while taking damage.


The other two, while on a mechanical basis are easy, are more about the symbolism and the meaning. If you're just an evil wizard becoming a lich, you use the first one.
The second is, in essence, a permanent geas given to an elf by their elders and loved ones, where failure doesn't mean damage, it means death, dishonour, and disrespect.
The third is more of a crisis of morality; Will you kill your best friend for a chance to live forever?
Notice that it's also a lot weaker than the other two; You have to manually build yourself back up with magic, and maybe a cult to help you. The other two, you just come back, either at your phylactery, or at the magic circle where you were created.

So, I guess call this whatever type of response you want, but I'd consider it a mix of justification and argument.

[JNAProductions]

D&D uses average rounded up. 19*4+6=82.

They still pass on a 8+ (again, unless someone without Int save proficiency has this spell) so this averages to 178.2 damage. This is a bit better, requiring (assuming perfect averages) a 20 Con (or some other way to net +5 HP per level-16 Con and Tough, 14 Con, Tough, and Hill Dwarf, etc.).

Note that, due to no location requirements, you can literally due this in your personal demiplane in total safety. Hell, cast Forbiddance ahead of time so no one can make it in short of deific intervention-you've got time. (Wait, Wizards don't get Forbiddance.)

It's getting better... But literally every issue with this spell (damage and adventurers teleporting in) can be solved by a friendly Cleric. They cast Cure Wounds on you every once in a while, with ample spell slots, and provide the Forbidance effect.

[demonslayerelf]

How many clerics do you know who would say; "Oh, you just want to become a liche. Let me just protect you while you do that, and I'll get nothing."

Additionally; Why do you think that every famous lich has an evil cleric follower or two?


Frankly speaking, there should be way more liches than the number people seem to think of. Even if rituals were way more complex, they have to be performed by an 18th level wizard. And if Orcus was the source, rather, especially if orcus were the cause, there would be waaaaaay more liches than that. How many demon lords don't want permanently loyal followers who can cast 9th level magic? He's the source of their unlife- Read, they depend on his magic, otherwise they couldn't live.

Even if the ritual is basic, it's still multiple 9th level spells, hundreds of thousands of gold, and more or less also requires a high level cleric's help. Literally, this sounds exactly like what a lichdom spell would look like.(Ignoring Baelnorns and Voldemorts, obviously.)

[Anymage]

How many clerics do you know who would say; "Oh, you just want to become a liche. Let me just protect you while you do that, and I'll get nothing."

How many adventurers do you know who have a cleric who'll cast utility and healing spells for a friend, if they'll use their abilities to help out the cleric when he needs a favor?


Frankly speaking, there should be way more liches than the number people seem to think of. Even if rituals were way more complex, they have to be performed by an 18th level wizard. And if Orcus was the source, rather, especially if orcus were the cause, there would be waaaaaay more liches than that. How many demon lords don't want permanently loyal followers who can cast 9th level magic? He's the source of their unlife- Read, they depend on his magic, otherwise they couldn't live.

You did see the bit about how liches need to nom souls on a regular basis, right? Don't keep sacrificing people, devolve into a barely aware shadow of yourself. Do keep sacrificing people, you've basically painted a neon sign above your home for any good aligned adventurer. In a lot of other ways, being a successful long-lived lich is a balancing act between being evil enough to not blanch at the requirements (5e goes through a good deal of effort to highlight how undead aren't just an abstract badness), but not too evil that you get yourself snuffed out.

Which gets to the other main bit about the spell that I dislike. RAW, it's an elaborate form of character suicide. There are no rules for playing a lich, so upon completion of the ritual your character is retired and replaced by an NPC heavily based on his original stats. If the player wants to retire his character to lichdom and it makes narrative sense, having to cast a ninth level spell to that end is pointless; just declare your intent and roll up someone new. On the other hand, if this is a spell available to player characters (and the fact that it's listed out like any other PC available spell strongly implies that it is), that also implies that the end result of your character as a lich also happens to remain playable. That requires the DM to nail down a lot of specifics about lichdom, and takes the campaign places that you really want full table buy-in before you go there. So it's either narratively superfluous, or just the tip of a huge iceberg.

[cdax]

In an evil campaign, this would rock socks.

So many valid points. This was a fun read.

[Ninja_Prawn]

You did see the bit about how liches need to nom souls on a regular basis, right? Don't keep sacrificing people, devolve into a barely aware shadow of yourself. Do keep sacrificing people, you've basically painted a neon sign above your home for any good aligned adventurer. In a lot of other ways, being a successful long-lived lich is a balancing act between being evil enough to not blanch at the requirements (5e goes through a good deal of effort to highlight how undead aren't just an abstract badness), but not too evil that you get yourself snuffed out.

Which gets to the other main bit about the spell that I dislike. RAW, it's an elaborate form of character suicide. There are no rules for playing a lich, so upon completion of the ritual your character is retired and replaced by an NPC heavily based on his original stats. If the player wants to retire his character to lichdom and it makes narrative sense, having to cast a ninth level spell to that end is pointless; just declare your intent and roll up someone new. On the other hand, if this is a spell available to player characters (and the fact that it's listed out like any other PC available spell strongly implies that it is), that also implies that the end result of your character as a lich also happens to remain playable. That requires the DM to nail down a lot of specifics about lichdom, and takes the campaign places that you really want full table buy-in before you go there. So it's either narratively superfluous, or just the tip of a huge iceberg.

I'm with you here, on both counts. Being a lich is bloody hard work, and they're prime targets for high-level heroes. Simply giving a PC the lich stat block also seems like a can of worms. That's why my version (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?505208-Epic-Level-Necromancy) of this (apologies if it seems like I'm hijacking the thread, but I published it a year ago so newcomers might not be familiar) gives clearly defined benefits over a longer time scale.

For me, becoming a lich is way beyond what a 9th-level spell should be capable of (unless it's an unintentional consequence of a wish), so the 'too easy' criticism resonates with me as well. This should be something that takes years of research and all manner of terrible sins to achieve, not a spell you can just pick when you level up.

[demonslayerelf]

The thing is though, that a Lich is only an 18th level caster.
Now, I say only 18, but ultimately, that's a lot higher than Wizards even bothers to support nowadays.

A lich isn't even a 20th level wizard. They're high priority, but that's only because of the spells and the evilness.
Remove Legendary Actions and Resistances, and all you have is a high-level caster, who regenerates. They get a couple extra things from being a lich, but not much.
They still have 135 health, 18th level casting, and only 20 Intelligence.

They get a 3d6 cold damage+stun attack with two points of failure, legendary actions and resistances(But Unicorns have those, so it doesn't actually mean much), and semi-immortality.


Keep in mind, semi-immortality can be achieved at 15th level, with a lot of Clone spells, only with those, you don't have to wait 1d10 days, feed it souls, and aren't undead.

Y'all are seriously overrating liches.