Can PrC +1 to existing spellcasting class apply to mystic theurge?

[flamewolf393]

So mystic theurge gives you +1 class level (for purposes of specllcasting only) to both an arcane class and a divine class.

If I take another prestige class that itself gives a +1 class level to existing spellcasting class, can it apply properly to mystic theurge so I get both my base classes?

My weird idea for the build that inspired this question is sorcerer(4)/favored soul(4)/mystic theurge(1)/heartwarden of sune(10)

[NecroDancer]

Unfortunately no, you have to choose to increase the divine spellcasting OR the arcane spellcasting. It's one of the many reasons theurges are hard to make viable.

[ExLibrisMortis]

No. Mystic Theurge advances spellcasting twice, but does not provide spellcasting of its own, so it has no class features that can be increased by PrCs that improve spellcasting. You can 'extend' PrCs with two prestige classes, Legacy Champion and Uncanny Trickster, which advance all class features, not just casting.

For reference, theurge builds typically benefit from early entry. In your case, that would mean something like illumian favoured soul 2/sorcerer 1/mystic theurge X, using Improved Krau Sigil to qualify after only three levels, instead of eight.

[RoboEmperor]

No. Mystic Theurges advances spellcasting twice, but does not provide spellcasting of its own, so it has no class features that can be increased by PrCs that improve spellcasting. You can 'extend' PrCs with two prestige classes, Legacy Champion and Uncanny Trickster, which advance all class features, not just casting.

For reference, theurge builds typically benefit from early entry. In your case, that would mean something like illumian favoured soul 2/sorcerer 1/mystic theurge X, using Improved Krau Sigil to qualify after only three levels, instead of eight.

Or advancing PrC with independent accelerated spell progressions like Nar Demonbinder and ur-priest.

[Psyren]

Mystic Theurge is not itself a spellcasting class, so no.

[Zsaber0]

Could you use Uncanny Trickster or Legacy Champion to produce the same effect?

[Telonius]

The other way to make Mystic Theurge more viable is to use a prestige class that does have its own casting progression (like Ur-Priest for example) that has faster-than-usual access to higher-level spells.

[CharonsHelper]

The other way to make Mystic Theurge more viable is to use a prestige class that does have its own casting progression (like Ur-Priest for example) that has faster-than-usual access to higher-level spells.

It was temporarily viable in Pathfinder when they had an errata to include spell-like abilities as counting for pre-reqs, so with the right racial spell-like and/or domain you were only 1 spell level behind in one of your spell-casting and 3 in the other. (Ex: A tiefling with Darkness take 3 levels of cleric & 1 of sorcerer could 'cast' a level 2 of both since Darkness is arcane.) But unfortunately they withdrew that errata.

[flamewolf393]

It was temporarily viable in Pathfinder when they had an errata to include spell-like abilities as counting for pre-reqs, so with the right racial spell-like and/or domain you were only 1 spell level behind in one of your spell-casting and 3 in the other. (Ex: A tiefling with Darkness take 3 levels of cleric & 1 of sorcerer could 'cast' a level 2 of both since Darkness is arcane.) But unfortunately they withdrew that errata.

I can actually approve of that ruling. Overly early access to MT can make it way too powerful. Its already basically the most powerful class in the game

[CharonsHelper]

Its already basically the most powerful class in the game

I'm sorry *cleans out ears* what!? How? You're giving up all of your most potent spells and all class abilities to be mediocre at other spellcasting and requires you be more MAD.

Sure - you get tons of spells - but by the time you can even take the class you almost never run out of low level spells anyway and action economy is more important than # of total spells

Mystic Theruge is (without the temporary Pathfinder ruling) pretty much the epitome of a class which is really cool on paper but pretty horrible in practice.

[flamewolf393]

I'm sorry *cleans out ears* what!? How? You're giving up all of your most potent spells and all class abilities to be mediocre at other spellcasting and requires you be more MAD.

Sure - you get tons of spells - but by the time you can even take the class you almost never run out of low level spells anyway and action economy is more important than # of total spells

Mystic Theruge is (without the temporary Pathfinder ruling) pretty much the epitome of a class which is really cool on paper but pretty horrible in practice.

Whats the most powerful thing in d&d? A full progression spell caster. With MT you get full level 9 casting in both arcane AND divine spells. Sure you get it a couple levels later, but you still get it. I'd say double the number of spells available and per day is worth delaying the high levels spells a couple levels.

Worried about MAD? You dont really need many bonus spells per day since you are doubling up anyway. Or just take classes that use the same stat. Or get stat substitution feats for it.

[RoboEmperor]

Whats the most powerful thing in d&d? A full progression spell caster. With MT you get full level 9 casting in both arcane AND divine spells. Sure you get it a couple levels later, but you still get it. I'd say double the number of spells available and per day is worth delaying the high levels spells a couple levels.

Worried about MAD? You dont really need many bonus spells per day since you are doubling up anyway. Or just take classes that use the same stat. Or get stat substitution feats for it.

Dweomerkeeper. Free spells, a.k.a. free wish.

Incantatrix, ungodly amount of metamagic feats + metamagic reducers = ungodly amount of metamagic stacking. Combine with Arcane Thesis and you're throwing out spells with 8 metamagic stacked onto it.

Shadowcraft mage. Huge versatility, and free miracles.

You see, these PrCs stacked stuff on top of level 9 spells. These guys are much powerful than two separate Wizard20 and Cleric20 working in tandem.

edit: Also, not everything is about getting level 9 spells at level 20. The most important thing is getting them as early as possible. I think I remember ur-priest getting level 9 spells at character level 14. Compare that to your mystic theurge. I believe a character throwing level 9 spells for 7 levels is much stronger than one that only casts them for 4 levels, or in your case, 1

[CharonsHelper]

Whats the most powerful thing in d&d? A full progression spell caster. With MT you get full level 9 casting in both arcane AND divine spells. Sure you get it a couple levels later, but you still get it.

If it's 3 levels late then it really isn't full progression any more. One of the two reasons that sorcerer is considered weaker than wizard is because they're just one level behind in getting the next spell level.


Worried about MAD? You dont really need many bonus spells per day since you are doubling up anyway.

It's mostly about the DCs.


Or just take classes that use the same stat.

You mean Oracle & Sorcerer so that you're even further behind in casting? You'd be a full 5 levels behind a wizard or cleric.


Or get stat substitution feats for it.

If you're bringing in 3rd party stuff maybe. I avoid them because feats like that are OP. (not in this situation perhaps - but that's because it would be being used to counter a UP situation)

[Psyren]

It was temporarily viable in Pathfinder when they had an errata to include spell-like abilities as counting for pre-reqs, so with the right racial spell-like and/or domain you were only 1 spell level behind in one of your spell-casting and 3 in the other. (Ex: A tiefling with Darkness take 3 levels of cleric & 1 of sorcerer could 'cast' a level 2 of both since Darkness is arcane.) But unfortunately they withdrew that errata.


I can actually approve of that ruling. Overly early access to MT can make it way too powerful. Its already basically the most powerful class in the game


Whats the most powerful thing in d&d? A full progression spell caster. With MT you get full level 9 casting in both arcane AND divine spells. Sure you get it a couple levels later, but you still get it. I'd say double the number of spells available and per day is worth delaying the high levels spells a couple levels.

How were you getting dual-9s in Pathfinder? There's no Ur-Priest or other fast-progression caster, and no other theurge to finish your MT progression with like Arcane Hierophant.