The Fencer

[Westhart]

This is another one of the classes I was working on for the fighter reworks, could also function as a replacement for the swashbuckler and the Duelist...

https://docs.google.com/document/d/11FOeHJ5-YAQ2rtyDpetNnZMyUdI8Cusmwg_RD5dWn0I/edit?usp=sharing

[Westhart]

I couldn't convince someone to PEACH this could I? It is probably pretty powerful, since I like fencers and all :smallbiggrin:

[aimlessPolymath]

I generally don't do martials, but here's "bugfixes" that I spot as I read through.

Skill list missing.
Deadly Accuracy should specify that it replaces Strength, to avoid people taking Weapon Finesse to double up. Also, this is a very good dip (maybe intentional). Maaay also want to add a caveat that it doesn't work with greatclubs, too.
Why not just give the Combat Reflexes feat instead of Improved Reflexes? Simpler, avoids enabling stupid AoO builds too hard, and means you don't need to add the disclaimer relating to prerequisites.
Not a fan of the Seduction DC scaling method. A secret cabal of wizards are easier to seduce than one awkward guy who doesn't want to talk about sleeping with someone else's wife? Add Will save bonus of the target to the DC, at minimum, and squish the DCs together a bit.
Precise Strike might be overkill. As a full BAB class, it can already deal out a bunch of damage. Making it 1/round would help, maybe, but I'm not sure why this needs the bonus damage.
Parry... is OK, I guess.
Superior Combat Expertise is asking to be cheesed. Asking for it. Also overkill, since Parry is a thing. Would move Parry up a level, cut this.
Shuffle: A pretty good amount of speed, and lets you be more mobile while full-attacking.
Counter: Hmmmm. Changes:
-Expends an AoO even if you fail.
-No penalty from Combat Expertise on the opposed roll, though not on the attack roll
Otherwise OK... ish. Attack bonus is now AC, which is a dangerous road to go down. Would make the attack automatically hit on a failure, and stagger you for the next turn or something, instead of granting them an AoO- many creatures will not be set up to make multiple AoOs per turn, but can attack multiple times.
On the Run: I'd cut the prerequiste-counting-as, unless there are specific feats you want to qualify for. Needs to specify that your total movement in a turn can't exceed your speed.
Quick Recovery: ... Rounded down or rounded up? Feels like it doesn't quite fit here.
Extend: Hm. This gives you an AoO on anyone who approaches you, which becomes rather troublesome with Evasive Reflexes. Not sure I like it. Adding an "on your turn" requirement would help a lot.
Weakening Crit: Sure, fine.
Imp. Precise Strike: Sure, fine.
Unfettered Movement: Makes a lot more sense than Quick Recovery, could be itemized anyway, so it isn't unbalanced. Looks good!
Imp. Counter: Being able to total defense is pretty good... not a fan of no-penalty for it.
Better Recovery: Not a fan.
Wounding Critical: Sure, fine.
Master Duelist: Sure, fine.

General Summary:
A much better version of the fighter. It's way better at the stuff fighters could already do, although not that much better at stuff fighters couldn't do. Unusually cheesable for a fighter fix (attack roll optimization) due to Counter. The combination of a damage buff and full BAB is pretty rare in homebrew because of the immense amount of damage it can deal out, and should be pulled back. Decent mobility though speed, and immense physical defenses thanks to either attack roll optimization, or Improved Combat Expertise buffing AC to absurd levels.

Sidenote: New feats encourage dipping 1 level into Scout, Rogue, Ranger (maybe), and Druid. Scout + Rogue means that Skirmish is almost always active, so attacks from a flank deal +19d6 damage between Skirmish, Precise Strike, and Sneak Attack, on nearly full BAB. This is absurd. Animal Companion at almost-full level is incredibly good, too.

[Jormengand]

It's usually considered good form to post the class in the thread if able, especially given the exceptional loading times on google docs.

"Armour" or "Armor" cannot generally be pluralised, you should say "Types of armo[u]r"
"Hit rolls" don't exist; the correct term is "Attack rolls"
The fact that few people know a secret doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how well-guarded it is. For example, if the sixteen lords of Somewheretopia know a terrible secret which would threaten the world if it became common knowledge, it might be harder to get it out of them than if bob the commoner knows what jane the commoner did last Tuesday.
Precise strike isn't enough damage which is a problem with the duellist in general. It barely makes up for forcing you to use the weakest combat style in the game, for example.

In general, a lot of the abilities are weird and not good enough.

[Westhart]

I generally don't do martials, but here's "bugfixes" that I spot as I read through.

Skill list missing.
Deadly Accuracy should specify that it replaces Strength, to avoid people taking Weapon Finesse to double up. Also, this is a very good dip (maybe intentional). Maaay also want to add a caveat that it doesn't work with greatclubs, too.
Why not just give the Combat Reflexes feat instead of Improved Reflexes? Simpler, avoids enabling stupid AoO builds too hard, and means you don't need to add the disclaimer relating to prerequisites.
Not a fan of the Seduction DC scaling method. A secret cabal of wizards are easier to seduce than one awkward guy who doesn't want to talk about sleeping with someone else's wife? Add Will save bonus of the target to the DC, at minimum, and squish the DCs together a bit.
Precise Strike might be overkill. As a full BAB class, it can already deal out a bunch of damage. Making it 1/round would help, maybe, but I'm not sure why this needs the bonus damage.
Parry... is OK, I guess.
Superior Combat Expertise is asking to be cheesed. Asking for it. Also overkill, since Parry is a thing. Would move Parry up a level, cut this.
Shuffle: A pretty good amount of speed, and lets you be more mobile while full-attacking.
Counter: Hmmmm. Changes:
-Expends an AoO even if you fail.
-No penalty from Combat Expertise on the opposed roll, though not on the attack roll
Otherwise OK... ish. Attack bonus is now AC, which is a dangerous road to go down. Would make the attack automatically hit on a failure, and stagger you for the next turn or something, instead of granting them an AoO- many creatures will not be set up to make multiple AoOs per turn, but can attack multiple times.
On the Run: I'd cut the prerequiste-counting-as, unless there are specific feats you want to qualify for. Needs to specify that your total movement in a turn can't exceed your speed.
Quick Recovery: ... Rounded down or rounded up? Feels like it doesn't quite fit here.
Extend: Hm. This gives you an AoO on anyone who approaches you, which becomes rather troublesome with Evasive Reflexes. Not sure I like it. Adding an "on your turn" requirement would help a lot.
Weakening Crit: Sure, fine.
Imp. Precise Strike: Sure, fine.
Unfettered Movement: Makes a lot more sense than Quick Recovery, could be itemized anyway, so it isn't unbalanced. Looks good!
Imp. Counter: Being able to total defense is pretty good... not a fan of no-penalty for it.
Better Recovery: Not a fan.
Wounding Critical: Sure, fine.
Master Duelist: Sure, fine.

General Summary:
A much better version of the fighter. It's way better at the stuff fighters could already do, although not that much better at stuff fighters couldn't do. Unusually cheesable for a fighter fix (attack roll optimization) due to Counter. The combination of a damage buff and full BAB is pretty rare in homebrew because of the immense amount of damage it can deal out, and should be pulled back. Decent mobility though speed, and immense physical defenses thanks to either attack roll optimization, or Improved Combat Expertise buffing AC to absurd levels.

Sidenote: New feats encourage dipping 1 level into Scout, Rogue, Ranger (maybe), and Druid. Scout + Rogue means that Skirmish is almost always active, so attacks from a flank deal +19d6 damage between Skirmish, Precise Strike, and Sneak Attack, on nearly full BAB. This is absurd. Animal Companion at almost-full level is incredibly good, too.


It's usually considered good form to post the class in the thread if able, especially given the exceptional loading times on google docs.

"Armour" or "Armor" cannot generally be pluralised, you should say "Types of armo[u]r"
"Hit rolls" don't exist; the correct term is "Attack rolls"
The fact that few people know a secret doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how well-guarded it is. For example, if the sixteen lords of Somewheretopia know a terrible secret which would threaten the world if it became common knowledge, it might be harder to get it out of them than if bob the commoner knows what jane the commoner did last Tuesday.
Precise strike isn't enough damage which is a problem with the duellist in general. It barely makes up for forcing you to use the weakest combat style in the game, for example.

In general, a lot of the abilities are weird and not good enough.

Well, don't know what it is about fencers but I can't build a class for one very well ><

Ok, I am going to take this back to the drawing board, edits will be made... sometime soon.