Mage with a Gun - Arcanist/Gunslinger Build Help

[AlmaPheonix]

So, long term GM and friend of mine is starting up his next campaign this Friday and has opened his rules quite a bit and I'm honestly not prepared for it.

My GM likes lower magic settings so a lot of my previous campaigns with him have had a lot of restrictions on classes and magic items, etc. (I've played with other GMs that don't have such restrictions but I usually start at level 1 or 2 so I don't really have the following problems) But he has opened the campaign to having the Advanced Class Guide classes along with allowing gunslingers for the first time since I've played with him. We are also starting at level 3 with standard starting gold for that level (so 3000 gp). We are doing 20 point buy. Restrictions are no 3rd party, no plane-touched races due to the setting being planar locked, and the odder one being only 2/3 of my levels can be caster levels (rounded in favor of caster so if I'm level 5, I can be 4 levels of caster and 1 of martial but the next level has to be martial). This ratio goes up to 3/4 if playing classes like bard as they only get to spell level 6. The party comp is currently cavalier, swashbuckler, bard, cleric/something (i forgot her other class), archery focused ranger, and an investigator.

As for my character, I really like Arcanist due to it's versatility and I'm planning on taking the School Savant archetype (School: Teleporation, Opposition likely being Enchantment and Necromancy). I think I finally settled on gunslinger for my martial class, due to it being new to me and allowing me to still be partially ranged from enemies. Problem being, I've never really looked over firearm rules before and I'm currently finding them a bit overwhelming. Add in that I have enough starting gold for low level magic items, I'm a bit in over my head.

So, basically, what sort of archetypes/feats would be good for a mage with a gun? I do need to keep one hand free for casting so I don't really think dual-wielding is viable in terms of action economy (two handed guns should be fine cuz you can hold them with one hand as a free action, I think?) And I am aiming more for a mage that happens to have a gun rather than a mage that uses a gun to cast (so the wizard archetype spellslinger doesn't really interest me and I feel like I lose more than I would gain). I do think I can gear my feats more to my martial prowess, at least at lower levels, as I will be a bit more dependent on that to start.

So, tl;dr,
-20 point buy, starting at level 3 with 3000 gp
-only 2/3 of my classes can be my chosen caster class (arcanist)
-I'm thinking gunslinger as my martial class
--recommended archetypes, feats, ability score arrangement?
--recommended fire arms, backup weapons, other equipment? (I don't know if advanced firearms will be allowed, so let's assume not to be safe)

Other questions: Would it be worthwhile at all to go Eldritch Knight once I qualify? Which races should I consider (I was thinking elf, due to tiefling not being an option and ratfolk not really suiting my RP style)? Not really a question but I have already debated over wizard versus arcanist and I think, being inexperienced with wizards, the arcanist's pseudo-spontaneous casting will help me out better. I'm willing to give up faster spell progression if it means I feel less useless in combats and non combat encounters because I planned poorly.

I appreciate your thoughts! ^^

[Geddy2112]

Normally, a gunslinger/arcanist is going to be MAD as all hell, as it needs WIS which is your dump stat, but you can pick up either the siege gunner or mysterious stranger to make your grit INT or CHA based. Almost every arcanist will have more INT than CHA, as CHA is the same from 7-13 to arcanists, so unless you are going CHA based to power exploits then I would go siege gunner. Both siege gunner and mysterious stranger are less than great and usually just a 1 level dip, but since you are going to have to take multiple levels siege gunner will probably be best. If you don't care about using your deeds(you won't be using them really) you can just go vanilla gunslinger.

That said, decide if CHA means anything to you. You don't need face skills-your party is stacked with skillmonkeys and faces, so you are there to bring the raw arcane magic to boot and blast somebody if they cross you. So for stats, I would go DEX=INT, Con, dump the rest. You could go 8/16/14/16/8/8 before racial mods, or even get 18 in INT if you throw the dump stats down to 7. You have strong will saves, a bunch of mooks to carry your crap(really you only need your piece, spellbook, component pouch, and clothing) and a bunch of talkative folks in the party. Pick 1-2 knowledge skills that the other people are not covering, throw a rank in all the other class skills for bonuses, then the rest into perception. You probably want a rank in craft alchemy to make your own ammo, including alchemical cartridges to let you reload as a free action(with rapid reload).

As far as what gun you use, regardless of your choice spend the 300gp to make it masterwork. A pistol is not bad for reloading purposes, and while siege gunner gives you some bonus deeds that work with scatter weapons, I would ignore those except for maybe a backup blunderbuss or using siege guns. If you want to go with a musket(to stay out of combat, and you are correct in 1 hand can come off to cast a spell) then I would stack the musket master archetype on top. It is a literal straight upgrade and gives you free rapid reload, as well as the ability to treat a musket as 1 handed at level 3. It does trade out gunslinger's dodge though, which is probably the only deed you will be using besides quick clear.

Onto your arcanist levels, school savant is very good but understand you won't get exploits for a while. I will say consider summoning if you go with conjuration school(although the occultist is better, you get a boost to something you might do anyways). The teleportation ability and the 8th level school power do save you from having to learn the dimensional slide exploit. I like necromancy for the self buffs, but I agree you don't need enchantment with a bard in the party, and I would likely oppose evocation as you don't need blast spells(let the martial classes do damage, plus a lot of conjuration spells can do damage)

For exploits:you need potent magic early on, it might be worth burning a feat for extra exploit. The familiar exploit is a must, and getting an improved familiar is well worth it. Even though the familiar will be a few arcanist levels behind, many of the familiar bonuses function on character level instead of caster level. The quick study exploit will help allay your fears of preparing the wrong spells for the day-just have some extra slots open and spend arcane reservoir to learn spells on the fly. Grab a bonus metamagic feat from the metamagic exploit, and take the greater one to get a 2nd metamagic feat and the ability to mix it up.

For other feats, spell focus(conjuration) and augment summoning are great if you wanna do that, and spell focus(conjuration) can still benefit you by itself. Improved initiative is absolutely incredible, metamagic feats and spell perfection are always great for casters. At higher levels, spell penetration is pretty handy, possibly less useful if you go elf. If you have traits, picking up extra traits is often better than a feat, and of course extra exploits to help shore up the ones you miss at low levels.

For items, you could take a handy haversack and never worry about items again. A ring of sustenence is dirt cheap for what it does and eliminates the need for gold and carrying food/supplies. A haramaki is cheap armor that has no ACP or spell fail chance. A spell component pouch and gunsmith kit are the only other things you need. If you can afford a ring of protection it is your best defensive buy, although enchanting your armor is an option. A cracked dusty rose prism ioun stone is only 500gp for +1 initiative and does not take up a slot, absolute steal.

I would shy away from eldritch knight, particularly just taking a single level in it. Take as much as you can in arcanist and then the rest in gunslinger.

[Serafina]

You might want to consider a one-level dip into Spellslinger Wizard (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo-wizard-archetypes/spellslinger/) (to get Arcane Guns), and Eldritch Archer Magus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/archetypes/paizo-magus-archetypes/eldritch-archer-magus-archetype/) (which would allow you to cast a spell and make a full attack with one extra attack as a full-round action).

Due to your houserules, you might have to exchange Spellslinger Wizard for Gunslinger - not having an arcane gun makes your spells weaker, but that's alright. You'd never want more than that one-level dip either, since Spellslinger is a horrible archetype after this dip.

So your build for now would be Gunslinger 1/Eldritch Archer Magus 2.
For advacenemnt, you'd want to keep your Magus-levels as high as possible, and you might want to take one level in Inspired Blade (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/swashbuckler/archetypes/paizo-swashbuckler-archetypes/inspired-blade) Swashbuckler so that you get Intelligence-to-Grit (in addition to Charisma and Wisdom). You'll not really get to the point where you add Dex-to-Damage until very high levels, and the Deeds you'd get from more Gunslinger aren't really worth it. For additional archetypes, Guiding Blade (http://archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Swashbuckler%20Gui ding%20Blade) can be nice, as can Noble Fencer (http://archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Swashbuckler%20Nob le%20Fencer),
But if the Swashbuckler-dip isn't an option, do consider the Siege Gunner (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger/archetypes/paizo-gunslinger-archetypes/siege-gunner-gunslinger-archetype) archetype for Int-to-Grit, but I'd rather keep the Deadshot deed.

[AlmaPheonix]

@Geddy - Ooooh, so much information! Thank you for the tips and suggestions! ^^ I mostly just dislike Necromancy personally and due to running a lot of campaigns with a paladin in the party (obviously not the case this time). I will look more into it though, as yeah, I'm looking more into crowd control and having the gun in case anyone gets too close (either move or 5 ft step away, shoot then shift even further away) and I know conjuration is a big one for that. And thanks for the suggestions on exploits, I figured I should grab quick study but I didn't realize what potent magic did (very handy as I'm already a bit gimped on caster levels). I was planning on grabbing a familiar at some point (one of the reasons the decisions between wizard and arcanist was hard actually >_>). I'll need to see how high level we end up going though as I'm pretty sure I can't take extra exploit until I get exploits at arcanist 5 anyway, and all of those sound pretty good. I need to look into the gunslinger stuff a bit more closely, as I tend to not like tanking stats too much (I'm already planning on dropping charisma to 7 though), but con is literally life so I'll definitely look into siege gunner. And thanks for the feats and magic items suggestions! Once I get my build a bit more narrowed down, I'll definitely pick up some of those. ^^

@serafina - Thanks for the suggestions but I'm not looking to optimize a mage that casts with a gun. ^^;;; I'm planning on taking gunslinger levels due to the fact that I need some sort of martial class after I already take my caster levels in Arcanist. Seeing as we already have party faces and skill monkeys, a healer/more support in the cleric, and melee range combat covered, I just need to be there to provide raw arcane power. Magus doesn't really get me there as most of their spells are geared towards being in the thick of melee and helping the other melee folks out. I want to be watching the combat and aiding from afar, with the ability to get myself out of trouble most of the time (the gun and the teleports). If I was going for gunmage, those would definitely help though!

Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions, guys! ^^ I'll definitely take them into consideration as I build my arcanist.

[Geddy2112]

Woah woah, there is necromancy (the magic school) and then there is Necromancy(making undead). Just because you don't oppose necromancy the school does not mean you have to be a Necromancer or even be evil. Necromancy has a LOT of very useful, not even remotely evil spells for a wizard. And for your paladin friends, cast bed of iron on them, letting them sleep in their full plate and it feels like silk sheets at a 5 star hotel. It is a necromancy spell, but not even remotely evil.

False life, blindness/deafness, spectral hand, fear, magic jar, finger of death, vampiric touch, energy drain and enervation are neither undead creating nor [evil] spells, and very useful to a wizard. Certainly they can be used to be evil, but they are not evil spells so using them does not make one evil. Plenty of white necromancers can run around and use their powers to stop bad monsters(extraplanar evil, undead) to help people. The spells disrupt undead, halt undead, and undeath to death are specifically used to fight against and destroy undead creatures. So next time some uppity good aligned character goes on about how awful necromancy is, unless you are using specifically evil spells or creating undead(an objectively evil act) then carry on.

A gun is a good backup, and as far as dumping stats, your grit pool is the same for 7-13 in your ability score. The siege gunner has more grit from your INT, but you trade away deadshot which is pretty good, and gunslinger initiative, as well as getting a bunch of useless bonus feats instead of decent ones. That said, if you went blunderbuss and used it to keep things away from you it is not a bad idea. Going vanilla slinger and not caring about grit points would not be bad either. Musket master stacks with siege gunner and musket master is the way to go if you use a musket, but you could honestly just go musket master. The only deeds you will probably ever use are gunslinger dodge, quick clear, and gunslinger's initiative(if you have it). I doubt your wisdom will be 14 in your buy so might as well dump it regardless of where you go with your gunslinger classes.

Potent magic is probably the best arcanist exploit, and critical for you being behind in CL. The magical knack trait will increase your CL by 2 for arcanist, up to your character level, helping mitigate the forced martial dips.

[AlmaPheonix]

Haha, yeah.... ^^;;; I really need to look more into necromancy. I've only played a wizard/arcanist about 3 times before now and first time was in 3.5 and I played a univeralist if I remember correctly. Due to the limits on magic in a lot of campaigns I've played, I really didn't get to play wizard as much as I would like, and therefore didn't have to be too concerned about schools. I'll weigh my options on what I should take as opposition, though enchantment is definitely one.

And I think I'd like to take pistol due to action economy and the fact that I probably won't take GS 3 for a while (in the case of me going musket). Blunderbuss doesn't really interest me (never really been into shotguns). I'm currently planning on taking Point-Blank Shot and Precise Shot so I can safely aid allies without risk of hitting them. What's your opinion on musket versus pistol, given those feats? Do you think I should take different ones?

My GM approved the siege gunner archetype, if I wanted it, but I'm not sure it will aid me much, when my focus is spell casting. I doubt this campaign will go all the way to level 20, meaning at most, I'll likely have only 5 levels of GS anyway. And I was thinking really only using quick clear and gunslinger's initiative when I get it (both of which, I notice, just require having at least 1 grit), while having the dodge as an "oh crap" button. The gun is basically going to be my fancy crossbow for the first few levels; something I shoot when it isn't worthwhile to cast a spell and I don't have to move far away. Also, is pistolero worth it if I go pistol? I'm aware it doesn't stack with siege gunner. I know musket master is a must to make muskets worthwhile for action economy. And as my GM confirmed, no advanced firearms so no hopes of a rifle. I guess I'm just kind of torn on if to go pistol or musket.

And yeah, I'll definitely take potent magic or quick study once I hit Arcanist 5, depending on how the adventure has been progressing up to that point. ^^ And magical knack is a godsend so a must have for sure.

Again, thank you for the help!!

[Geddy2112]

Both pistol and musket are viable, just depends on what you want to do.
Unless you take rapid reload at first level, it is a full round to reload the musket and a standard action to reload the pistol. With rapid reload, it becomes a standard to reload the musket and move to reload the pistol. You can use alchemical cartridges, increasing your misfire value by 1, reducing it even further. Rapid reload+alchemical on a pistol is a free action(and at level 3 musket master you can do this as well).

Since you are basically just keeping a grit in the pool for quick clear and +2 initiative(and fast musket if you go the musket route) you don't really need extra abilities or a big grit pool. Maybe gunslinger's dodge for emergencies, and deadeye for when you absolutely need the hit. Going musket master replaces gunslinger's dodge, which is more useful for you than getting more range.

The thing is, you won't be getting a second attack anytime soon, so having to reload is not the end of the world. The main thing is that to reload+fire you won't be able to move(unless you use your teleportation school power) and you might be better off running to safety. Ideally you won't be using it more than once a combat, and if you keep it loaded reloading in combat is not an issue.

Guns target touch AC in their first range increment, so even without point blank/precise shot, you are aiming for touch AC which is pretty easy to hit. The musket has longer range at 40ft while the pistol only has 20ft. To hit touch, you have to be close with a pistol, and that is less than ideal for you. You can always shoot then teleport away with either. Even without precise shot, you won't hit an ally if you miss unless you have a house rule in play saying so, but the-4 penalty hurts. Outside your first range increment shooting into combat becomes a -6 against normal ac, and even with decent dex your BAB is not very good so it's unlikely you will hit. You can use the deadeye deed to target touch AC at further range, but you still take the penalties.

Point blank and precise shot are somewhat useful for casters, as they help with your ranged touch spells(ray's, snowball, etc) giving you bonuses there too.

Ideally, you won't even be in point blank shot range with the musket, but with the pistol you often will. Most combats also happen in smaller areas, although depending on your campaign you might have a lot of area in combat. I would avoid pistolero, as your gun is a fancy crossbow and you don't want to spend your precious grit for 1d6(or half that). Deadeye is a more important deed for you in case you need to shoot from afar.

Gunslinger gives you Sleight of Hand, and a pistol is concealable. With 16 dex, 1 rank, class skill bonus and a pickpocket's outfit(free as it is less than 10gp) you get a +9 to SoH, which will pass against common observation at low levels. So if you wanted to hide your gun in cities you could. With a musket this is not an option, but it is with the pistol. Not gamebreaking, but worth considering. Remember it is a standard action to draw a hidden weapon.

Really it comes down to preference and playstyle; neither is wrong.

[AlmaPheonix]

Okay, so it's sounding like either pistol with regular gunslinger or musket with musket master. I think pistol will fit the character better roleplay wise so I think I will go with pistol. Having the option to conceal it is also nice, even if drawing it will be a standard action. And you bring up a good point with PBS and precise shot, I forgot those can apply to spells. I'm taking PBS as it is required for so many ranged feats, moreso than for the extra to hit and damage (though having that is nice). As for hitting allies, the GM has ruled in favor of that before, but mostly when it was that an ally was in direct line of the shot. But regardless, -4 hurts when my BAB is low.

Thanks for your help! ^^