Sneak-grab-grapple

[J-H]

I sat on this for a couple of days (PBP) while waiting for the SRD to come up, and I still can't figure out exactly how to adjudicate this via RAW. If there is no RAW, I am still not quite sure how to handle it best - aside from just going with the cinematic approach.

It's dusk. Three dwarven scouts are walking in single file through the tall grass back to their camp. Suddenly, a (PC with substantially more class levels) were-tiger ninja (yes, really) leaps upon the rear scout, grabbing it and grappling it to keep it silent (is this a surprise round + main round?).
The were-tiger has good enough Hide+MS rolls that the dwarves aren't going to get tipped off to her presence unless the dwarf being attacked, or the noise of the grapple, is loud enough to alert them. Unless some 1s and 20s are rolled, I also expect the were-tiger ninja to win her grapple checks.

Should I apply the -10 to listen DCs for "sound of a battle"? Can the dwarf be grappled and muffled without a chance to speak (talking is a free action??) if the were-tiger wins initiative?

[Eldariel]

I sat on this for a couple of days (PBP) while waiting for the SRD to come up, and I still can't figure out exactly how to adjudicate this via RAW. If there is no RAW, I am still not quite sure how to handle it best - aside from just going with the cinematic approach.

It's dusk. Three dwarven scouts are walking in single file through the tall grass back to their camp. Suddenly, a (PC with substantially more class levels) were-tiger ninja (yes, really) leaps upon the rear scout, grabbing it and grappling it to keep it silent (is this a surprise round + main round?).
The were-tiger has good enough Hide+MS rolls that the dwarves aren't going to get tipped off to her presence unless the dwarf being attacked, or the noise of the grapple, is loud enough to alert them. Unless some 1s and 20s are rolled, I also expect the were-tiger ninja to win her grapple checks.

Should I apply the -10 to listen DCs for "sound of a battle"? Can the dwarf be grappled and muffled without a chance to speak (talking is a free action??) if the were-tiger wins initiative?

Talking is a free action that can be taken out of turn order, but one can't take actions flat-footed and the dwarf is very flat-footed. This essentially amounts to the surprise round and while some noises are definitely made, the pin and move one needs to take someone away and keep silent is potentially feasible (but if the rear scout moves in tall grass, roll Listen as if he weren't trying to roll Move Silently obviously). In D&D, everyone kinda has all-around vision but given the direction of movement and the description it seems reasonable to say that this should work. At the very least, it should be possible unless the Dwarves make the listen check, and it's cool enough that I'd allow it on rule 0 if nothing else.

[NOhara24]

I sat on this for a couple of days (PBP) while waiting for the SRD to come up, and I still can't figure out exactly how to adjudicate this via RAW. If there is no RAW, I am still not quite sure how to handle it best - aside from just going with the cinematic approach.

It's dusk. Three dwarven scouts are walking in single file through the tall grass back to their camp. Suddenly, a (PC with substantially more class levels) were-tiger ninja (yes, really) leaps upon the rear scout, grabbing it and grappling it to keep it silent (is this a surprise round + main round?).
The were-tiger has good enough Hide+MS rolls that the dwarves aren't going to get tipped off to her presence unless the dwarf being attacked, or the noise of the grapple, is loud enough to alert them. Unless some 1s and 20s are rolled, I also expect the were-tiger ninja to win her grapple checks.

Should I apply the -10 to listen DCs for "sound of a battle"? Can the dwarf be grappled and muffled without a chance to speak (talking is a free action??) if the were-tiger wins initiative?

I would simply have the listen DC be dependent on by how much the Weretiger beats her victim. I don't know your players stats, but if she beats him by a significant margin the DC for the listen check should be pretty high.

[Elkad]

Surprise with 2 attacks. (including winning initiative to get the 2nd attack before the enemy gets his first)
Grapple, Pin.

Pin allows you to keep your opponent from speaking.

If your player can accomplish all that before the enemy gets an action, I'd give them a listen check, but not with the "sound of battle" bonus. DC5+range if one of them is wearing metal armor, or DC10+range if not.

Surprise with 3 attacks.
Grapple, Move Opponent, Pin.

Now you are back in the undergrowth with concealment.

Note I don't have any solid rules support for this, but it feels right.

Edit to add:

I would simply have the listen DC be dependent on by how much the Weretiger beats her victim. I don't know your players stats, but if she beats him by a significant margin the DC for the listen check should be pretty high.
I like this. I might toss whichever armor check bonus is worse into the mix as well.

[Fouredged Sword]

An interesting option is to cast silence on a stone. Put the stone in a pouch. As the effect is an emanation, you can talk and hear so long as the stone is in the pouch. Take the stone out and you can use the silence emanation to block all noise as you drop down and grapple your hapless dwarf. I had a DM who allowed me to permanency a stone of silence in one game. It was a ton of fun.

[Eldariel]

An interesting option is to cast silence on a stone. Put the stone in a pouch. As the effect is an emanation, you can talk and hear so long as the stone is in the pouch. Take the stone out and you can use the silence emanation to block all noise as you drop down and grapple your hapless dwarf. I had a DM who allowed me to permanency a stone of silence in one game. It was a ton of fun.

Aye, very useful. Also a solid thrown weapon vs. casters; no matter what you hit, it's a huge emanation that prevents casting and you can prepare the attack to interrupt casting. When I use Silence I basically always anchor it on pebbles. A good excuse to carry a small box of pebbles with you or to take them from your Spell Component Pouch as well.

[KillianHawkeye]

In order to do this, the character has to succeed on some difficult Hide checks, as well as Moving Silently, AND he needs to win Initiative on the first full round of combat and beat the target on two separate Grapple checks.

He can charge from a hidden position on the surprise round (with a BIG penalty on the stealth checks for doing so) and make the touch attack to grapple, then follow through with the pin on Round 1 to keep his victim from crying out. Hopefully, the character is much higher level than the scouts....

[Mr Adventurer]

In order to do this, the character has to succeed on some difficult Hide checks, as well as Moving Silently, AND he needs to win Initiative on the first full round of combat and beat the target on two separate Grapple checks.

He can charge from a hidden position on the surprise round (with a BIG penalty on the stealth checks for doing so) and make the touch attack to grapple, then follow through with the pin on Round 1 to keep his victim from crying out. Hopefully, the character is much higher level than the scouts....

While this is true, AIUI, the different grapple checks can be made on iterative attacks. So if they have BAB +11/+6/+1 - and can Pounce on their surprise-round charge, of course - they can Grab, then Pin (including gagging the foe), then Move the Grapple on the last attack.

EDIT: Actually, Move a Grapple is a Standard action. But Pin is an attack. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#grapple

[KillianHawkeye]

While this is true, AIUI, the different grapple checks can be made on iterative attacks. So if they have BAB +11/+6/+1 - and can Pounce on their surprise-round charge, of course - they can Grab, then Pin (including gagging the foe), then Move the Grapple on the last attack.

EDIT: Actually, Move a Grapple is a Standard action. But Pin is an attack. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#grapple

Wow, I somehow always thought you had to wait until the next round in order to pin the person you're grappling. I guess I don't do a lot of grappling, or I'm just too used to low-level play (probably both). Thanks for pointing this out!