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tahu88810
2007-08-10, 09:08 AM
I have a question about Kobolds:

Everybody here seems to think that Kobold's are awsome, how is this so?
The most I've ever used a Kobold for in a campaign was as ground fodder for an enemy, or as simple little enemies to give the party that last 100 xp that they needed. (only at lower levels, though)
Is there something I am missing?

SpikeFightwicky
2007-08-10, 09:13 AM
I think it's mostly a 'Root for the underdog' attitude. Kobolds are likely the weakest statted of all humanoids (-6 physical stat penalty tradeoff for a +2 bonus) and the only thing going for them is a +1 natural armor bonus.

Also, WotC seems to have been promoting them for the past while (Races of the dragon devotes alot of bookspace to it).

Other than that, I don't know.

Spiryt
2007-08-10, 09:15 AM
I'm not exactly sure what you are talking about.

Kobolds are weak opponents, and Kobolds as Characters have also many drawbacks. They're 60cm tall, after all...

I haven't seen nobody speaking about "awesome" Kobolds, but many people like them beacuse they're quite interesting race ( Races of the Dragon developed them much)

Guinea Anubis
2007-08-10, 09:16 AM
http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/

tahu88810
2007-08-10, 09:22 AM
http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/

Alright, thanks :)

Bunny of Faith
2007-08-10, 09:24 AM
PunPun. Nothing more has to be said. Trying to find a link...

Jimbob
2007-08-10, 09:41 AM
I think Anubis1179 summed it all up in one simple tasty link :smallsmile:

banjo1985
2007-08-10, 09:49 AM
Kobolds also make good flavour characters and are good comedy material. My group once trapped a little kobold called Meepo in a sleeping bag, that just wouldn't be as funny with any other race, even goblins aren't as pathetic as your standard kobold!

AKA_Bait
2007-08-10, 09:52 AM
http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/

QFT

Also, little sneaky guys, if you give them some useful class levels (I like Kobold beguilers myself) can be fun opponents to annoy the heck out of your party with. Not that hard to kill... if they can manage to get a hold of the little bastard.

Telonius
2007-08-10, 10:35 AM
Kobolds also make good flavour characters and are good comedy material. My group once trapped a little kobold called Meepo in a sleeping bag, that just wouldn't be as funny with any other race, even goblins aren't as pathetic as your standard kobold!

Awww, Meepo! I remember that little dude. :smallsmile: Though I hear he got character levels in some pregen campaign.

FireSpark
2007-08-10, 10:37 AM
Kobolds also make good flavour characters and are good comedy material. My group once trapped a little kobold called Meepo in a sleeping bag, that just wouldn't be as funny with any other race, even goblins aren't as pathetic as your standard kobold!

Meepo is the quintessential kobold, as anyone who is familiar with the Sunless Citadel should know. He's been referenced either in text or pictures in other various books, both D&D and others. (Look in the D20 Modern corebook, in the monster section, check out their sample Kobold.:smallwink:)

My group decided to take a spin through the Sunless Citadel to launch a new campaign, and because we hadn't done it in a while. From the moment Meepo made his first appearance, the DMs rolls for Meepo went sky-high. Suddenly, Meepo the kobold knew everything from beneficial underground ecologies, to the best way to build a defensible fortification. Thus he took on a new moniker: Meepo the All Knowing :smallbiggrin:

Then, in the next campaign, someone took this a step further, decided he would be Meepo, who was inspired to leave his dens through his interactions with another group of heroes. :smallwink: Our Meepo eventually became a Half-dragon Monk/Paladin of Bahamut. Tiny fists of lawful good fury!:smalltongue:

banjo1985
2007-08-10, 10:38 AM
Awww, Meepo! I remember that little dude. :smallsmile: Though I hear he got character levels in some pregen campaign.

That is possibly the most horrifying thing I could ever imagine....Meepo...class levels???!

And an all-knowing kobold becoming a dragon cleric...this is all too much!

*head explodes at the lunacy of it all*

Telonius
2007-08-10, 11:05 AM
Just found the link. Wasn't a pregen campaign, but it's on the Wizards site here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20060120a).

(Poor guy, this will destroy whatever remains of his shattered sanity).

Ponce
2007-08-10, 11:22 AM
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a

That variant makes kobolds a lot more fun. Natural weapons and tiny stature when it benefits them? Yes, please!

bosssmiley
2007-08-10, 12:16 PM
I have a question about Kobolds:

Everybody here seems to think that Kobold's are awsome, how is this so?

They are the underdogs that never give up.
They hate gnomes more than I do.
Their progenitor and patron god (Kurtulmak) is Tiamat's firstborn!
Plus they all sound like Ren (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ren_and_Stimpy_Show#Characters).
The last adds several levels of awesome in itself. :smallbiggrin:


The most I've ever used a Kobold for in a campaign was as ground fodder for an enemy, or as simple little enemies to give the party that last 100 xp that they needed. (only at lower levels, though)
Is there something I am missing?

These little dragonmen (or dogmen if you're old school) are masters of the ambush, the feigned retreat, the fighting rearguard, the lure into trapped areas decoy maneuver and all that goes with it. I see that Tucker's Kobolds was linked above. Google "guerilla warfare", read up on it, then apply the tactics and tricks of asymmetrical warfare liberally to your next batch of kobolds. Watch your players squirm as the Meep Guevara and his posse of CR1/2 'push-overs' tear the party a new one. :smallbiggrin:

"Kobolds: don't mess with the blood of dragons!"

Clove
2007-08-10, 12:42 PM
I was in a monstrous humanoid campaign once, using the book for humanoids that came out about 5 years ago. Everyone else played different kinds of brutes: Troll, I think Minotaur, and something else. Oh, one guy played the frog guy with big eyes who basically sees everything.

I played a kobold because they had a 0 Level Adjustment and I wanted to be a Sorceror.

I was the party leader. I got orders from our boss, an evil wizard.

The huge strength penalty was meaningless. I did not deign to making physical attacks anyways, being the tiny leader of a group of monstrous humanoids with great physical prowess.

1 Point of Natural Armor was a nice bonus, but there is also 1 point of armor for being small. This also gives a +1 to touch attack spells.

Small, and being able to move 30' is pretty sweet! Basically all the benefits for being small, without the biggest penalty. I can't remember if Kobolds get a racial bonus to Hide, but being small and fast in a party with Juggernaughts meant it was easy for me to avoid the attention of enemies. Which was nice since I was the only arcane caster in the group.

I took spell focus (and maybe greater spell focus, don't remember) Enchantment and took Charm Person, Alter Self, and such for spells in addition to the usual Sorceror fare of damage dealing spells. So I could also be the party face whether we were dealing with other humanoids or *goodly* human/adventurer types.

Isomenes
2007-08-10, 12:45 PM
Somewhat along these lines, I wonder if anyone's played Kobolds Ate My Baby! (http://www.koboldsatemybaby.com/). It's a rather tongue in cheek look at the race, where you play as a clan of Kobolds and try to capture babies for delicious consumption. The game also pokes fun at the whole D&D genre, but can be modified only slightly to provide a very serious and interesting mechanic for an insight into the world of these little buggers without all those extra dice--it's a d6 game.

Falrin
2007-08-10, 02:34 PM
If you search the board you'll probably find at least 5 thread with enough info how to make kobolds the dirty, trapping, sneaky, hit-n-runners they should be.

1) Kobolds are cowards, not stupid.

2) Being a coward doesn't mean you won't fight, you just won't fight fair.

3) 3O Ft speed & small.

4) Kobolds are evil.

5) Kobolds are underestimated. It's fun when a party rushes into the kobold camp to find out it's one big trap/ambush.

Matthew
2007-08-10, 07:30 PM
These little dragonmen (or dogmen if you're old school)

Goblinoids if you're truly Old School and if I recall correctly.

tainsouvra
2007-08-10, 07:36 PM
Goblinoids if you're truly Old School and if I recall correctly. Well, if by "truly Old School" you mean "two centuries ago" I think you'd be correct :smallbiggrin:

Matthew
2007-08-10, 07:46 PM
Heh, heh. No, I have another tradition in mind. Might have been the 1e Monster Manual, (O)D&D or Chainmail; I could be wrong, but I have seen them treated as Goblinoids somewhere...

Of course, the association of Goblin and Kobold is a lot older than that, being as both are likely descended from the Ancient Greek root word.

Wraithy
2007-08-11, 05:27 AM
the best combat character I ever played was a kobold (ranged combat thankfully). it was a kobold scout with an AC of about 23 at lvl 4 (no buffs from casters, no magic items) thanks to expeditious dodge, skirmish, and a chain shirt. the rediculous AC made it impossible for any NPC to touch it let alone kill it, in the end the party dwarf killed it for killing a gnome, but it was definately worth death to stop that gnome delivering supplies to those orphans. vie la koboldlucion!

Paragon Badger
2007-08-11, 05:37 AM
One word: Deekin.

"As the intrepid kobold traveled through the shadowy depths of the Underdark... Deekin wonder why the whole world above simply doesn't collapse?"

Seriously, how can the planet's crust have so much negative space? :-P

Zincorium
2007-08-11, 05:57 AM
Seriously, how can the planet's crust have so much negative space? :-P

I imagine that Fearun is like an immense block of pumice floating on the ocean. One of these days it's going to float over and smash into Maztica.

As far as kobolds go, I think they're overplayed as mooks. I don't use them as standard rushes-you-and-attacks-til-dead monsters, too many others fill that role much better. What I have used them for are hideously sadistic but mundane traps in dungeons. It doesn't seem unusual to me for monsters to keep a small clutch of kobolds around for that.

MrNexx
2007-08-11, 09:03 AM
One word: Deekin.

"As the intrepid kobold traveled through the shadowy depths of the Underdark... Deekin wonder why the whole world above simply doesn't collapse?"

Seriously, how can the planet's crust have so much negative space? :-P

Very solid engineering by Grumbar.

Diggorian
2007-08-11, 09:48 AM
As far as kobolds go, I think they're overplayed as mooks. I don't use them as standard rushes-you-and-attacks-til-dead monsters, too many others fill that role much better. What I have used them for are hideously sadistic but mundane traps in dungeons. It doesn't seem unusual to me for monsters to keep a small clutch of kobolds around for that.

I share this view and play them similarly. Given their nasty physical limits in a monster-rich world and living in the most dangerous parts, it makes sense that they've got be extra cunning/creative. Kobolds of my design work in numbers using class levels to fulfill specialized roles in an over all strategy.

Wraithy
2007-08-11, 10:01 AM
one of the best bits of RotD was when they said kobolds were one of the richest races in existance, its also brilliant to know that kobolds get lots of funds from the "civilized races" via trade and a disguise person spell. so many gnomes must be paying kobolds for the components of their magical dishwashers, their money will fund their destruction:smallbiggrin:

Subotei
2007-08-11, 03:09 PM
One of the reasons Kobolds are awesome is that someone took the time to take the 'worst' humanoid and make them interesting. The same applies to any monster - a little thought and they can become more than 2-dimensional baddies.

PlatinumJester
2007-08-11, 03:54 PM
Kobolds are the stupidest things ever :smallmad:. I hate their bastard guts. They're soo annoying. You're walking along a dungeon and 3 stupid lizards jump out at you. You can't be bothered to kill them but you have to otherwise they'll do something even more annoying like kill you in your sleep or sound the alarm.

It says that Kobolds kill any humanoid they see. The hell they do. The retarded Kobold runs up to the human attacks him and... MISSES. Repeat until the kobold dies of exhaustion.

Xefas
2007-08-11, 04:05 PM
One word: Deekin.

"As the intrepid kobold traveled through the shadowy depths of the Underdark... Deekin wonder why the whole world above simply doesn't collapse?"

Seriously, how can the planet's crust have so much negative space? :-P

Deekin was the best! I kept him with me throughout the entire Hordes of the Underdark campaign. I had a Lawful Evil Blackguard for a character, and I rationalized that he definitly would enjoy a tiny, frail lizard walking around praising him for everything and writing songs about him. Not to mention he always had enough Lore to ID all your stuff. I often imagine that after my Blackguard stole Mephistopholese' power and used it to conquer the world (which was my epilogue- best possible, in my opinion), Deekin was always by his side and ended up ruling a small continent somewhere. Best sidekick ever.

Anyways, that's sort of my roundabout way of saying why I think kobolds are awesome. On the one hand, they can be plotting, sadistic vermin who plague your PCs to no end with confounding traps and underhanded tactics, or they can be adorable selfless and humble bards who chirp whenever you click 'em.

NullAshton
2007-08-11, 04:19 PM
Kobolds get a +4 to hide, +2 total to AC both which apply when flatfooted, +3 including dexterity bonus, 60 foot darkvision, full movement speed for being small. They get a -4 to strength though, easily offset by taking a class that doesn't rely on strength, and a -2 to constitution, easily offset by spending slightly more points on constitution.

They're not all that good which is why it's not a LA +1, but still pretty good. Not to mention if one dies, you ALWAYS have another kobold to replace him...

Jack Mann
2007-08-11, 04:59 PM
Kobolds are the stupidest things ever :smallmad:. I hate their bastard guts. They're soo annoying. You're walking along a dungeon and 3 stupid lizards jump out at you. You can't be bothered to kill them but you have to otherwise they'll do something even more annoying like kill you in your sleep or sound the alarm.

It says that Kobolds kill any humanoid they see. The hell they do. The retarded Kobold runs up to the human attacks him and... MISSES. Repeat until the kobold dies of exhaustion.

Why the hell would they run up to attack? They're as smart as humans. Probably smarter than your average barbarian or fighter. They don't attack unless they can be pretty sure of winning. Read the entry. They prefer to attack with overwhelming odds or trickery. They use traps. They pour flaming oil on you when you're not looking. They put poisonous spiders in your bedroll while you're asleep. They put up tripwires and deadfalls. Or they attack with enough numbers that they can overwhelm you.

Sure, they're annoying. They're annoying because they aren't stupid. They use tactics. If a DM gets too clever, he can easily wipe out a party of adventurers with a tribe of kobolds.

Tokiko Mima
2007-08-11, 05:17 PM
There's also a Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) ritual that can result in a kobold with a sorcerer spellcasting level greater than it's total ECL. If you played such a kobold, you would gain new spell levels as quickly as wizards do, and be a better sorcerer than a human or elf of equivalent level.

Jack Mann
2007-08-11, 05:23 PM
Really, I think the lesson with kobolds is that any kind of creature can be a challenge to the party, if the DM is willing to think beyond "Raargh! I attack the fighter!"

Fax Celestis
2007-08-11, 05:33 PM
Really, I think the lesson with kobolds is that any kind of creature can be a challenge to the party, if the DM is willing to think beyond "Raargh! I attack the fighter!"

The correct answer is, "I spring my AMF trap and sneak attack the wizard while invisible from just outside the trap's range."