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filmore
2007-08-10, 10:55 AM
Hey all,

Anyone have any good pointers for running a successful Cthulhu investigation? I've only ever done dungeon crawl type DM-ing, and wanted to try something different, but I don't know a good place to start for what makes a good horror DM.

Thanks!

SpikeFightwicky
2007-08-10, 11:10 AM
Which ruleset are you going to use? D20, Chaosium, other?

filmore
2007-08-10, 11:12 AM
I was going to use the d20 since all the investigators are familiar with DnD 3.5

TroyXavier
2007-08-10, 11:28 AM
Ick...Classic is better (and you're talking to a person who loves D20 normally)

Well anyways....Atmosphere is incredibly important in Cthulu. It also probably requires a lot more roleplaying than some games. Creepiness is also quite important and players should be repulsed at some of the stuff they find.

blackout
2007-08-10, 11:32 AM
And insanity. Insanity is important. :smalltongue:

Winterwind
2007-08-10, 11:46 AM
First, build-up is incredibly important. You do not suddenly let monsters appears - you merely hint that something might be wrong, let strange things happen which could easily be explained away by absolutely normal things - and only then slowly let it shine through that there is indeed something bad going on.

Reading a few of Lovecraft's stories to get the basic ideas of the world would be useful; here (http://www.dagonbytes.com/thelibrary/lovecraft/index.html)you can find all of them.
Oh, huh, strange, the link seems to not be working right now; don't know why, maybe it gets better.

The investigators are absolutely normal people, so let them start in an absolutely all-day situation. It's the transition from the known to the unknown which creates fear, more so than the unknown itself.

Do not show the true evil as long as possible, maybe even not at all (in many Lovecraft stories the protagonists survive only because they flee before they witness the thing really appear). As long as the players have no idea what they are up against, they will be much more afraid, more than all claws, teeth and tentacles could ever hope for.

Show insanity in the world. People gone mad. Children brabbling about other things. Personal rituals without any sense or meaning. Weird furniture and house layout, clearly designed by a madman.

Darrin
2007-08-10, 11:51 AM
Anyone have any good pointers for running a successful Cthulhu investigation? I've only ever done dungeon crawl type DM-ing, and wanted to try something different, but I don't know a good place to start for what makes a good horror DM.

Thanks!

This is a D20 Cthulhu game?

* Keep the characters low-level and make sure you tell your players that combat effectiveness is *NOT* a priority. A lot of the feel of Cthulhu boils down to players realizing that if they ever get into combat, they are so completely screwed they'll be lucky to last more than a couple rounds. A bonus to Gather Info or Diplomacy is going to be horrendously more useful than Rapid Shot or Power Attack.

* Read up a bit on the "10 foot bug" problem. Never throw something at the players that they can easily identify. If they can say "It's a byakhee, it can fly" or "It's a dimensional shambler, don't get within grappling range", and then start rattling off stat blocks, it will ruin the mood.

* Don't be afraid to kill players, even with bad luck or what may look like maliciousness. A lot of the fun of Cthulhu is knowing your character is going to die, and doing whatever you can to make that death meaningful or interesting. If it's early on and you still want to keep "dead" players involved, ask them to take over some NPCs or monsters. Or bring their characters back as the monsters.

* If you're going to give the players a break, make sure it's on the "research" rolls, like Gather Info, Search, Sense Motive, etc. The biggest problem with investigative scenarios is a linear plot can grind to a complete halt if they miss one vital clue. Make sure the clues and info they need to move forward can be discovered multiple ways, or are available later if they missed them the first time.

* If any one character loads himself down with weapons and combat feats, make sure he gets possessed and either take him over as an NPC or ask the player if he'd like to roleplay being a bad guy.

* Work in little "gotcha" moments to throw at the characters, basically brief scenes/events where reality warps or twists in such a way to screw with the character, pull them off-balance and keep them on their toes. Hit isolated characters first, avoid standard spell effects, and don't give them a lot of opportunity to respond, just muck around with their perceptions briefly. Gravity inside a room shifts 90 degrees for a few seconds. A clawfoot tub suddenly charges a few inches forward. A portrait bursts into flame and starts screaming, then is perfectly fine a few seconds later. As the scenario progresses, increase the frequency, the scope, and number of witnesses. You want the players to get the impression that at any moment, reality can slide out from under them like a rug, and nothing they can do by rolling a teeny little plastic 20-sided die can help them.

* If the players screw up or get wiped out, running the same scenario again with a new batch of investigators can be great fun. A team of concerned relatives, a MIB/X-Files "clean up" team, or "20 years later" all work as a good starting point to revisit a scenario.

WampaX
2007-08-10, 12:22 PM
Hey all,

Anyone have any good pointers for running a successful Cthulhu investigation? I've only ever done dungeon crawl type DM-ing, and wanted to try something different, but I don't know a good place to start for what makes a good horror DM.

Thanks!

For the most part, you will be doing site based adventuring/investigating. You need a few sets for the PCs to clamor around, usually tight enclosed spaces (old homes, back alleys, etc.) as well as some more impressive structures (manor house, library, etc.). It'll be a mix of the two, but populating them is as important as any dungeon. They should have a history (one that at least you know and maybe the PCs come to find out) as this will help you to visualize the structure and its current state to the players. Description is very key to a good and enjoyable Cthulhu investigation. The people that populate the structures are important as well, but the structures themselves need to live and breath as well.

A very important point is also, what timeframe is it?
1920s Investigations should be run significantly different than a modern investigation.
- Research took time, your non-researching investigators might need a lead to follow up on while Jimmy is buried in the old tomes and newspapers.
- The pacing of getting from point A to Point B outside of a modern city will be very different. Without access to public transportation or rental cars it will take time to get out into the countryside or make their way to a rural investigation local. Trains are your friend for long distance travel as it means long hours in an enclosed environment, perfect for creepy goings on OR perfect for research and reading downtime.
- Splitting up the team is alot harder to do in the 1920s as there are no ways for quick, easy communication. Phones and Telegrams are about all the PCs will have access to if they are not in the same local.

Winterwind
2007-08-10, 12:31 PM
In 1920 such issues as racism and sexism were looked upon completely differently, too - even educated people, who considered themselves enlightened often believed black people were an inferior race, or that women were less intelligent, and such. I find being confronted with non-supernatural evil like this also helps to increase a general atmosphere of horror.

filmore
2007-08-10, 12:52 PM
After reading the comments, I'm getting some pretty good ideas on how to handle the story. To start with, I think each player will need 2 character sheets drawn up.

Just a little info on the game. We're all students at Purdue University, so it'll be set here, and in modern times. I'm hoping to work a bunch of the history and legends of Purdue into the story as well.

I think the most challenging part is going to be getting the investigators to understand the whole "run or you die, never be alone" concept.

Seatbelt
2007-08-10, 12:57 PM
In 1920 such issues as racism and sexism were looked upon completely differently, too - even educated people, who considered themselves enlightened often believed black people were an inferior race, or that women were less intelligent, and such. I find being confronted with non-supernatural evil like this also helps to increase a general atmosphere of horror.

Lovecraft himself was racist.

Were-Sandwich
2007-08-10, 12:57 PM
I once saw a demotivator that went like:


Genres

The difference between horror movies and horror RPGs:
Movie character: "Lets split up"
RPG character: "Reload!"

Just Alex
2007-08-10, 12:58 PM
Since you're basing it on a University, remember, in Lovecraft the Professor/Doctor/Archaeologist always starts the problems.

rollfrenzy
2007-08-10, 01:04 PM
I think the most challenging part is going to be getting the investigators to understand the whole "run or you die, never be alone" concept.

the Key to Cthulu IMHO, Is that there won't be ANY combat to run away from till the end of the investigation, and at that point if they don't run, kill them, or make them insane. One of the best games of cthulu I ever ran, there was zero combat and it still ended in a TPK. And My players loved it.

Remember Cthulu as is is more about telling individual stories (Lovercraft WAS a short story author), and as such, it's almost bettr to have the characters change from story arc to story arc. Especially since it's the brush of unnatural haunting an everyday persons life, that makes the genre.

The best advice, build up is key. a few little things here and there, go a long way. Make them make sanity checks orr spot checks at really random times to keep the pc's on thier toes. Give them just little bits of unnatural to start then build into full blown mind shattering horror.

One final thought, a succsesful investigation by the pc's usually means that The BBEG never shows up.

God, I love Cthulu. I may have to start a PbP.....

edit: Yeah, I forgot, burn the d20 rules or throw them away, give them to charity, make them into insulation for your cieling, put them in your pets cage, use them as toilet paper, turn the pages into paper footballs, make paper airplanes, or make them into paper hats to wear while you play the REAL and only version of cthulu.

In other words d20 cthulu=crap. IMHO.

ALOR
2007-08-10, 01:17 PM
I was going to use the d20 since all the investigators are familiar with DnD 3.5

i must strongly suggest you get the original version of "Call of Cthulhu". The rules are pretty easy to learn and are just so much better for the "feel" of the game.
happy gaming

filmore
2007-08-10, 02:49 PM
i must strongly suggest you get the original version of "Call of Cthulhu". The rules are pretty easy to learn and are just so much better for the "feel" of the game.
happy gaming

Was anything left out of the d20 version that makes it that much worse than the Chaossium one?

rollfrenzy
2007-08-10, 02:55 PM
Was anything left out of the d20 version that makes it that much worse than the Chaossium one?

It's just the feel of the game. D20 is combat/mechanics oriented while the original system was more skill/investigate oriented.

I am biased though, because I love the old Cthulu.

Darrin
2007-08-10, 03:16 PM
Was anything left out of the d20 version that makes it that much worse than the Chaossium one?

Not really. The original is based on Chaosium's BRP system (Basic Roleplaying), which is to say, it's sort of a 1st Edition AD&D Homebrew with a percentile-based skill system bolted onto it. The sanity rules in d20 Cthulhu are pretty much identical to the original, which is a good thing because the sanity mechanics is a good chunk of what helps drive the mood of the game.

The biggest change is the magic and spellcasting. The CoC system uses a POW stat, while the d20 version uses a variety of ability drains on the six basic stats.

Another difference is with CoC, you don't have levels, so you only roll for HP once. This keeps the PCs very fragile, so even if they max out their combat skills, they still risk going down after just a handful of attacks. The XP rules in d20 CoC are very vague, so you can still keep things "honest" by using 1st level characters and level them up very slowly, if at all. Having the same character survive multiple scenarios is somewhat unusual.