I know this is a stupid question but just for the sake of it

[Ravinsild]

Necromancy Wizard does NOT multiclass well with Oathbreaker Paladin, correct? Despite having overlapping themes, it would made total and utter MAD right?

[Basement Cat]

Contrary to popular belief Int doesn't have to be a dump stat.

Most importantly it can certainly work if you aren't striving to be primarily a Wizard which would necessitate a very high Int score. Which class are you looking at being the primary class? Or are you looking at balancing them?

Role playing wise it would definitely work. Lots of dark stories available there. Yep! :smallwink:

[Ravinsild]

Contrary to popular belief Int doesn't have to be a dump stat.

Most importantly it can certainly work if you aren't striving to be primarily a Wizard which would necessitate a very high Int score. Which class are you looking at being the primary class? Or are you looking at balancing them?

Role playing wise it would definitely work. Lots of dark stories available there. Yep! :smallwink:

Key themes I'd prefer to have would be:

- Deals damage to heal self (Such as Vampiric Touch, I know the spell sucks for WIZARDS but for melee gish it's probably good or great)
- Ice Damage and Crowd Control (Creatures unable to move, constant aura of cold damage that slows, just generally icy damage)
- Raises the Dead (heh..)
- Plate Armor (Wading into combat all the way, going head to head, toe to toe, tank or tanky DPS style)
- 2 handed weapon (maximum melee damage)

I looked at the paladin and cleric spells and they have 0 cold damage abilties or spells, so some sort of Arcane boy is 100% necessary whether it's Sorcerer, Wizard or Warlock. However the Wizard gets the most Necromancer spells, Sorcerer gets the 2nd most and Warlock gets barely anything. In addition Death Clerics and Oathbreaker Paladin get nice Necromancy spells too, but 0 cold stuff. I think Vampiric Touch is the only "damage to heal", but smites and the channeled weapon damage is very theme fitting. Obviously Paladin gets plate, nobody else does out of all these classes...Paladin gets martial but so does Death Cleric for a greatsword (named Frostmourne kek) Death Cleric, Oathbreaker Paladin and Necromancer Wizard get Raise Dead for sure, but Necromancer's is the best and I don't think Warlocks or Sorcerer get it at all.

Also my class was already Necromancer Wizard, well technically I'm level 1, but I wanted to be a Necromancer and was wondering if I couldn't somehow "pick up a sword" and transition into a melee gish-type tanker Death Knight guy later on? I rolled stats.

High Elf Wizard:
Rolled stats would be: 8, 16, 17, 17, 13, 15

Strength: 8
Dexterity: 18
Constitution: 17
Intelligence: 18
Wisdom: 13
Charisma: 15

I haven't brought this idea up to my DM but I think they'd be cool with it and I may be able to rearrange some stats to make this actually work. A STR 8 Paladin would be...lolz.

[Nifft]

Wizard can work with lower Int. You just have to be certain you have something to do in combat, since you won't hit as often with your attack spells. (So probably you'll use buffs & such instead of attack spells.)

Wizards have a lot of the best utility spells in the game. There's plenty to do with your spells aside from attacking. You will be useful even with a relatively low Int.

As a Paladin, you have a great way to expend spell slots (Divine Smite), so you have something to do in combat automatically.

== == ==

EDIT: Just saw your stats. Yeah with 18 Int you're going to be fine as a combo Wizard.

[hymer]

Strength: 8

Just want to be sure this is in the thread: Is the DM waiving the Str 13 requirement for multiclassing as paladin?

[djreynolds]

High Elf Wizard:
Rolled stats would be: 8, 16, 17, 17, 13, 15

Strength: 8
Dexterity: 18
Constitution: 17
Intelligence: 18
Wisdom: 13
Charisma: 15

Bladesinger comes to mind. You may as well

[Ravinsild]

Just want to be sure this is in the thread: Is the DM waiving the Str 13 requirement for multiclassing as paladin?

Nope, and also I forgot about that. However I could probably move my wisdom score around with my strength score. My character is kind of the opposite of wise anyway. So I'll discuss a stat rearrangement. However I'm not sure what I should do. When is the soonest I'd want to move into paladin, when is the soonest I'd want to progress as wizard, and should I relegate the Paladin bits just for the armor/sword/fluff/extra spells but stick to like smites and stuff and use my big intellect for offensive spells? I think my stats are all screwed up to play a Death Knight gish. Maybe just straight wizard necromancer this time and revisit Death Knight next campaign?

[djreynolds]

Nope, and also I forgot about that. However I could probably move my wisdom score around with my strength score. My character is kind of the opposite of wise anyway. So I'll discuss a stat rearrangement. However I'm not sure what I should do. When is the soonest I'd want to move into paladin, when is the soonest I'd want to progress as wizard, and should I relegate the Paladin bits just for the armor/sword/fluff/extra spells but stick to like smites and stuff and use my big intellect for offensive spells? I think my stats are all screwed up to play a Death Knight gish. Maybe just straight wizard necromancer this time and revisit Death Knight next campaign?

High Elf Wizard:
Rolled stats would be: 8, 16, 17, 17, 13, 15

17/8/16/17/13/15

17/10/16/18/13/15

These stats look good enough to play any class almost. Just dump dex and it becomes a 10 now. Now you can wear heavy armor.

I might be inclined to toss in some warlock also.

[Ravinsild]

High Elf Wizard:
Rolled stats would be: 8, 16, 17, 17, 13, 15

17/8/16/17/13/15

17/10/16/18/13/15

These stats look good enough to play any class almost. Just dump dex and it becomes a 10 now. Now you can wear heavy armor.

I might be inclined to toss in some warlock also.

Which Pact and why? My biggest problem is how to split the levels between how many paladin (oathbreaker) and how many Wizard (necromancer) and at what points? Like what's the earliest I could expect to be fighting in melee and using cold/necromancy offensive spells and hit with a sword? Also, as I understand it, it would either be full attack action with a weapon or full attack action and cast a spell, but I'd have melee and ranged capabilities and "spell enhanced" melee attacks such as smites and so forth.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Which Pact and why? My biggest problem is how to split the levels between how many paladin (oathbreaker) and how many Wizard (necromancer) and at what points? Like what's the earliest I could expect to be fighting in melee and using cold/necromancy offensive spells and hit with a sword? Also, as I understand it, it would either be full attack action with a weapon or full attack action and cast a spell, but I'd have melee and ranged capabilities and "spell enhanced" melee attacks such as smites and so forth.

You're gonna want at least 6 level Necromancer for better undead and for similar reasons you will want 7 levels of paladin. Probably grab 5 levels paladin for Extra attack after the 2 levels of wizard.
Maybe something like

Wizard 1
Wizard 2
Wizard 2/ Paladin 1

Wizard 2/ Paladin 2 -This is the smite point. Before this you can still technically go melee but only do the weapon cantrips for thunder or fire damage, or if you pick up ice knife or ray of frost or frostbite.)

Wizard 2/ Paladin 3 - you get the channel divinity options. not bad.

Wizard 2/ Paladin 4 -The only feat i see you needing is warcaster and thats a maybe. Increasing stats here isn't bad, but if you want to focus on that 2hander pick up the feat too)

Wizard 2 Paladin 5 - Now you can hit twice, not sure if you prefer this to weapon cantrips but its there. )
At this point decide if you want to be a minion guy and when. You're at least 3 level before you get animate dead, 4 if you want to push paladin to 9th level to get it. and 6 levels before you can get to the good synergy of the classes. Wizard 6/Paladin 7.


This is of course kind of melee centric, with barely any reliance on smite. Oathbreaker / Necromancer is usually a good combo as two different characters, its also not bad on a single character if you can make it to 13th level. If you want something in the same field but less minion oriented, Necromancer 2/ Death Cleric X is good. Kill things with Toll The Dead or Chill Touch, on two people at once. Also Death cleric is great melee guy adding in necrotic damage everywhere, and You get to have healing when you kill with 1st or higher spells.

Don' forget Death Cleric Channel divinity, works on any melee attack, even melee spell attacks (attach to favorite touch spells or weapon cantrips)

[djreynolds]

Which Pact and why? My biggest problem is how to split the levels between how many paladin (oathbreaker) and how many Wizard (necromancer) and at what points? Like what's the earliest I could expect to be fighting in melee and using cold/necromancy offensive spells and hit with a sword? Also, as I understand it, it would either be full attack action with a weapon or full attack action and cast a spell, but I'd have melee and ranged capabilities and "spell enhanced" melee attacks such as smites and so forth.

Pact magic is nice because these spells reload on a short rest along with your paladins channel divinity. So this can be beneficial to someone smiting a lot.

As for which pact for the warlock, chain is nice for an upgraded familiar. And I like improved darkvision (devils sight) seems more evil.

And these warlock classes can be grabbed whenever.

As long as you start paladin you'll have chainmail... AC16

Now until get war caster, you cannot go sword and board right away

Me personally, I would grab 2 paladin for the ability to smite and then begin my wizard career to at least 5th level for 3rd level spell access.

What level necromancer do you want? Your signature spell or ability. Say 14th level but at least 6th level.

So
2 paladin
6 wizard
2-3 warlock (not needed)

14 necromancer/ 6 paladin seems cool but is a ways off

[Sir cryosin]

Your all forgetting something if you want heavy armor. You have to start as paladin. If muiltilclassing into paladin you only get light, medium shield, all simple and martial weapons.

[Sir cryosin]

Key themes I'd prefer to have would be:

- Deals damage to heal self (Such as Vampiric Touch, I know the spell sucks for WIZARDS but for melee gish it's probably good or great)
- Ice Damage and Crowd Control (Creatures unable to move, constant aura of cold damage that slows, just generally icy damage)
- Raises the Dead (heh..)
- Plate Armor (Wading into combat all the way, going head to head, toe to toe, tank or tanky DPS style)
- 2 handed weapon (maximum melee damage)

I looked at the paladin and cleric spells and they have 0 cold damage abilties or spells, so some sort of Arcane boy is 100% necessary whether it's Sorcerer, Wizard or Warlock. However the Wizard gets the most Necromancer spells, Sorcerer gets the 2nd most and Warlock gets barely anything. In addition Death Clerics and Oathbreaker Paladin get nice Necromancy spells too, but 0 cold stuff. I think Vampiric Touch is the only "damage to heal", but smites and the channeled weapon damage is very theme fitting. Obviously Paladin gets plate, nobody else does out of all these classes...Paladin gets martial but so does Death Cleric for a greatsword (named Frostmourne kek) Death Cleric, Oathbreaker Paladin and Necromancer Wizard get Raise Dead for sure, but Necromancer's is the best and I don't think Warlocks or Sorcerer get it at all.

Also my class was already Necromancer Wizard, well technically I'm level 1, but I wanted to be a Necromancer and was wondering if I couldn't somehow "pick up a sword" and transition into a melee gish-type tanker Death Knight guy later on? I rolled stats.

High Elf Wizard:
Rolled stats would be: 8, 16, 17, 17, 13, 15

Strength: 8
Dexterity: 18
Constitution: 17
Intelligence: 18
Wisdom: 13
Charisma: 15

I haven't brought this idea up to my DM but I think they'd be cool with it and I may be able to rearrange some stats to make this actually work. A STR 8 Paladin would be...lolz.

Also if I was you I'll probably just talk to my DM. And tell him this is the idea for my character. So first you have a nice dex so pick up mage armor spell giving you a 17 AC. So now find a pair of gauntlets of ogre strength they are uncommon magic item so shouldn't be too hard to find or make. So now your Str is 19 so you can wade into melee now. ( P. S. you both need to be prof in a weapon to use it.) use Greenflame blade or booming blade when attacking melee. You can cast haste on yourself to get GFB and a weapon attack. Then get all the wizard goodies.




You can flavor mage armor like bones coming from the ground and crafting suit of armor on you.

Player tips dead body are classified as objects so you can cast animate objects on them and get temp zombies. Also planer binding a summoned earth elemental gives that cool Diablo 2 clay gold feel.

[thoroughlyS]

After doing some research and tooling with some concepts, I have some recommendations for your build.


Also my class was already Necromancer Wizard, well technically I'm level 1, but I wanted to be a Necromancer and was wondering if I couldn't somehow "pick up a sword" and transition into a melee gish-type tanker Death Knight guy later on?

...

I haven't brought this idea up to my DM but I think they'd be cool with it and I may be able to rearrange some stats to make this actually work. A STR 8 Paladin would be...lolz.
I would like to preface my ideas by asking for a few clarifications. What do you mean by "my class was already Necromancer"? Have you already started playing this character? I ask because I take the concept in a different direction than what you've mentioned here. You also say you haven't yet spoken about this concept with your DM, but also that you've rolled for stats. Did you roll in front of your DM, or have some other method of confirming your stats?

Key themes I'd prefer to have would be:

- Deals damage to heal self (Such as Vampiric Touch, I know the spell sucks for WIZARDS but for melee gish it's probably good or great)
- Ice Damage and Crowd Control (Creatures unable to move, constant aura of cold damage that slows, just generally icy damage)
- Raises the Dead (heh..)
- Plate Armor (Wading into combat all the way, going head to head, toe to toe, tank or tanky DPS style)
- 2 handed weapon (maximum melee damage)

I rolled stats.

High Elf Wizard:
Rolled stats would be: 8, 16, 17, 17, 13, 15

Ability Scores and Race
Firstly, given that you have 4 odd stats, I would say that you make a premium candidate for Human. Not variant Human, mind you, but the standard Human, which gets +1 to all stats. This would give you:

18 STR
9 DEX
17 CON
18 INT
14 WIS
16 CHA

Another solid option is Half-Elf. Thanks to the variant racial options in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, you can even get back your Wizard cantrip for the cost of Skill Versatility. This would give you:

18 STR (17+1)
13 DEX
15 CON
18 INT (17+1)
8 WIS
18 CHA (16+2)

As a Paladin (especially one who wants to use Great Weapons) Strength is your main priority, followed closely by Constitution. Intelligence is probably going to be your "main" casting stat, mostly because Wizard spells will probably take priority over others (when you're actually casting instead of smiting). Your Charisma should definitely still be high. Your Dexterity and Wisdom can both be your lowest scores without major consequences.

You may be wondering why I'm assigning your odd stats to Dexterity and Constitution in both cases. This is because you make an excellent candidate for the Resilient feat.

Classes
Your concept - at its core - is to combine the Oathbreaker and Necromancer. I am with the crowd about trying to add in a level or two of Warlock for some fun abilities that mesh well with your concept.

Paladin
I recommend that your first level be in paladin, so that you are proficient with heavy armor. Given your tremendous stat rolls, multiclassing into wizard (and potentially warlock) should be a trifling matter. Your second level should also be in paladin, which will get you access to your main class feature: divine smite.

Warlock
Even a single level of warlock grants many of the tricks you want. The fiend patron gives you temporary hit points whenever you reduce a creature to 0 hit points. Armor of Agathys (a Warlock signature) is a cold aura themed spell that scales remarkably well. A second level grants two invocations; repelling blast is a favorite which gives you some handy crowd-control, especially at higher levels. In addition, pact magic gives you a useful short rest resource.

Wizard
The first level of wizard gives a way to regain spell slots on a short rest. As a paladin, this lets you have your smite and cast it too. A second level of wizard - choosing necromancy, of course - gives you another means of healing when you drop a creature.

Multiclassing
Putting this all together can be tricky, and I understand this is where your main concern lies. All of these builds start with 2 levels of Paladin to get smite as early as possible.

My knee-jerk reaction (coming from v3.5) is to try as hard as I can to keep 9th level spells.
At 3rd level you get short rest spell slots, which can be used for smite (or casting). Two more levels of Paladin gets you your first ASI one level late. Finishing out as a wizard gets you all of the necromancer features.

Cons: no extra attack, which feels bad as a gish.At 4th level you get two invocations, which can be used to supplement your main features. You also get an extra spell slot every short rest, which never hurts.

Con: Technically not an oathbreaker, because no 3rd level of paladin. First ASI at 8th level (Note: your crazy starting stats mitigate this)
Considering the theme you're going for here, 9th level spells don't actually seem all that necessary. The other option is to focus on your abilities in melee. Try to get extra attack at a decent point in progression.
You get extra attack and aura of protection 1 level late. Take your second level of warlock whenever you feel like, for the second pact slot.

Cons: Gets into wizard by 8th level at the earliest. Second warlock slot comes in late game.Switches around warlock and wizard progression from above. You get wizard spells earlier, but delay extra attack and aura of protection.

Cons: Reduced smites per day until about 9th level.Get your second ASI faster, aura of hate at 8th level, and a pact boon at 11th level.

Cons: Wizard at 12th level (although you would start it with 3rd level spells).
All of the above builds assume some levels in Warlock, even though that was not part of your original concept. The following builds do not attempt to incorporate warlock.
A variation of the sorcadin, gets you spell mastery.

Cons: Once again, no extra attack, and not technically an oathbreaker.Gets 3rd level spells one level late, and has all ASIs.

Cons: Still no extra attack, oathbreaker at 7th level.Gets 2nd level spells one level late, followed by extra attack and aura of protection 2 levels late. Reaches 9th level spells.

Cons: Doesn't get final necromancer feature until 20th.Gets aura of hate, and ASIs slightly earlier.

Cons: No final necromancer feature.

Feats
Here are some feats that will help you make an impact in combat.

Great Weapon Master - A staple of any melee focused build, especially useful if you have ways of gaining advantage (hint hint, the Help action).
Resilient - As mentioned above, getting proficiency with Dex and Con saves is great, especially if combined with aura of protection.
Shield Master - Bonus Action to shove your opponent can get them prone so all your minions allies get advantage on their attacks.
War Caster - Pretty necessary to maintain buffs in melee, also lets you cast with sword and board.

Spells
A handful of spells of the top of my head that fit with your concept.

Cantrips
chill touch
eldritch blast
frostbite
ray of frost
shocking grasp

Note: All except eldritch blast are wizard cantrips, which can be taken by the half-elf at 1st level.

Warlock
armor of Agathys
arms of Hadar
ray of enfeeblement

Invocations
Fiendish Resilience - Can help shore up your hit points at any time.
Repelling Blast - As above, gives you some nice crowd-control.

Pacts
Blade - Lets you summon your weapon... that's pretty much all you get out of it.
Chain - A familiar can take the Help action, which gets you advantage on one attack every turn.
Tome - Can give you some good utility cantrips, which is nice. Taking the Book of Ancient Secrets invocation makes this extra spicy. Doesn't quite fit you concept, but has so much use.

[Ravinsild]

After doing some research and tooling with some concepts, I have some recommendations for your build.


I would like to preface my ideas by asking for a few clarifications. What do you mean by "my class was already Necromancer"? Have you already started playing this character? I ask because I take the concept in a different direction than what you've mentioned here. You also say you haven't yet spoken about this concept with your DM, but also that you've rolled for stats. Did you roll in front of your DM, or have some other method of confirming your stats?



Ability Scores and Race
Firstly, given that you have 4 odd stats, I would say that you make a premium candidate for Human. Not variant Human, mind you, but the standard Human, which gets +1 to all stats. This would give you:

18 STR
9 DEX
17 CON
18 INT
14 WIS
16 CHA

OR

15 CON
18 CHA

Another solid option is Half-Elf. Thanks to the variant racial options in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, you can even get back your Wizard cantrip for the cost of Skill Versatility. This would give you:

18 STR (17+1)
13 DEX
15 CON
18 INT (17+1)
8 WIS
18 CHA (16+2)

As a Paladin (especially one who wants to use Great Weapons) Strength is your main priority, followed closely by Constitution. Intelligence is probably going to be your "main" casting stat, mostly because Wizard spells will probably take priority over others (when you're actually casting instead of smiting). Your Charisma should definitely still be high. Your Dexterity and Wisdom can both be your lowest scores without major consequences.

You may be wondering why I'm assigning your odd stats to Dexterity and Constitution in both cases. This is because you make an excellent candidate for the Resilient feat. In fact, you could pick it up twice, once each for Dex and Con. This would give you proficiency in the three "major" saves.

Classes
Your concept - at its core - is to combine the Oathbreaker and Necromancer. I am with the crowd about trying to add in a level or two of Warlock for some fun abilities that mesh well with your concept.

Paladin
I recommend that your first level be in paladin, so that you are proficient with heavy armor. Given your tremendous stat rolls, multiclassing into wizard (and potentially warlock) should be a trifling matter. Your second level should also be in paladin, which will get you access to your main class feature: divine smite.

Warlock
Even a single level of warlock grants many of the tricks you want. The fiend patron gives you temporary hit points whenever you reduce a creature to 0 hit points. Armor of Agathys (a Warlock signature) is a cold aura themed spell that scales remarkably well. A second level grants two invocations; repelling blast is a favorite which gives you some handy crowd-control, especially at higher levels. In addition, pact magic gives you a useful short rest resource.

Wizard
The first level of wizard gives a way to regain spell slots on a short rest. As a paladin, this lets you have your smite and cast it too. A second level of wizard - choosing necromancy, of course - gives you another means of healing when you drop a creature.

Multiclassing
Putting this all together can be tricky, and I understand this is where your main concern lies. All of these builds start with 2 levels of Paladin to get smite as early as possible.

My knee-jerk reaction (coming from v3.5) is to try as hard as I can to keep 9th level spells.
At 3rd level you get short rest spell slots, which can be used for smite (or casting). Two more levels of Paladin gets you your first ASI one level late. Finishing out as a wizard gets you all of the necromancer features.

Cons: no extra attack, which feels bad as a gish.At 4th level you get two invocations, which can be used to supplement your main features. You also get an extra spell slot every short rest, which never hurts.

Con: Technically not an oathbreaker, because no 3rd level of paladin. First ASI at 8th level (Note: your crazy starting stats mitigate this)
Considering the theme you're going for here, 9th level spells don't actually seem all that necessary. The other option is to focus on your abilities in melee. Try to get extra attack at a decent point in progression.
You get extra attack and aura of protection 1 level late. Take your second level of warlock whenever you feel like, for the second pact slot.

Cons: Gets into wizard by 8th level at the earliest. Second warlock slot comes in late game.Switches around warlock and wizard progression from above. You get wizard spells earlier, but delay extra attack and aura of protection.

Cons: Reduced smites per day until about 9th level.Get your second ASI faster, aura of hate at 8th level, and a pact boon at 11th level.

Cons: Wizard at 12th level (although you would start it with 3rd level spells).
All of the above builds assume some levels in Warlock, even though that was not part of your original concept. The following builds do not attempt to incorporate warlock.
A variation of the sorcadin, gets you spell mastery.

Cons: Once again, no extra attack, and not technically an oathbreaker.Gets 3rd level spells one level late, and has all ASIs.

Cons: Still no extra attack, oathbreaker at 7th level.Gets 2nd level spells one level late, followed by extra attack and aura of protection 2 levels late. Reaches 9th level spells.

Cons: Doesn't get final necromancer feature until 20th.Gets aura of hate, and ASIs slightly earlier.

Cons: No final necromancer feature.

Feats
Here are some feats that will help you make an impact in combat.

Great Weapon Master - A staple of any melee focused build, especially useful if you have ways of gaining advantage (hint hint, the Help action).
Resilient - As mentioned above, getting proficiency with Dex and Con saves is great, especially if combined with aura of protection.
Shield Master - Bonus Action to shove your opponent can get them prone so all your minions allies get advantage on their attacks.
War Caster - Pretty necessary to maintain buffs in melee, also lets you cast with sword and board.

Spells
A handful of spells of the top of my head that fit with your concept.

Cantrips
chill touch
eldritch blast
frostbite
ray of frost
shocking grasp

Note: All except eldritch blast are wizard cantrips, which can be taken by the half-elf at 1st level.

Warlock
armor of Agathys
arms of Hadar
ray of enfeeblement

Invocations
Fiendish Resilience - Can help shore up your hit points at any time.
Repelling Blast - As above, gives you some nice crowd-control.

Pacts
Blade - Lets you summon your weapon... that's pretty much all you get out of it.
Chain - A familiar can take the Help action, which gets you advantage on one attack every turn.
Tome - Can give you some good utility cantrips, which is nice. Taking the Book of Ancient Secrets invocation makes this extra spicy. Doesn't quite fit you concept, but has so much use.

The campaign has already started and technically my character is just a level 1 Wizard. Not a Necromancer, not anything, just a High Elf Level 1 Wizard. However I was planning on going Necromancer. The character is already made and we're just starting off with the beginning. I spoke with my DM and she seems keen on the idea, and willing to work with me, but I don't yet know to what degree. She said to private message her and we'll sort it out. All that said, I used a public forum to roll my stats and it has anti-cheat mechanisms in place. We rolled 4d6 x 7 dropping the lowest (number and overall roll) and it came out pretty nice as you saw.

That's why I was thinking the story line would be him finding a cursed blade or something and slowly becoming more death knighty from pure necromancer/caster. However it seems possible I could rewrite the character as starting Paladin and later gaining the Warlock/Wizard levels. If you're familiar with World of Warcraft, for all intents and purposes he would be a Blood Death Knight with a few of icy traits that come with death. Using blood/necromancy magic to heal and especially in melee combat (Vampiric Touch seems great for this and very flavorful)

[Talamare]

Why not just... Fighter? Instead of Paladin

Eldritch Knight uses INT, would provide Spell Casting Levels, Synergizes well enough with Wizard, Significantly less MAD

Could also be a Battle Master. With Commander Strike directing your Undead to attack and Menacing Strike for the fear theme.

[bid]

In fact, you could pick it up twice, once each for Dex and Con.
Nope. "You can take each feat only once,"

[thoroughlyS]

The campaign has already started and technically my character is just a level 1 Wizard. Not a Necromancer, not anything, just a High Elf Level 1 Wizard. However I was planning on going Necromancer. The character is already made and we're just starting off with the beginning. I spoke with my DM and she seems keen on the idea, and willing to work with me, but I don't yet know to what degree. She said to private message her and we'll sort it out.

...

However it seems possible I could rewrite the character as starting Paladin and later gaining the Warlock/Wizard levels.
Definitely ask to what extent you can alter your character. In rough order of most to least changes:

Change 1st level to paladin.
Change race to human (shuffle stats as above).
Change race to half-elf (shuffle stats as above).
Swap STR to get a 13+.
Handwave paladin multiclass requirement (no changes). Your DM just let's you take levels in paladin because it fits your concept.

I recommend trying to get 1 and 3. In addition, if your racial cantrip isn't frostbite or ray of frost, try to switch it to one of those.

If you're stuck with wizard first, take 2 levels before taking 2 levels of paladin. This gets you divine smite at 4th level with 4 1st-level slots (+1 from arcane recovery) and 2 2nd-level slots. If you're stuck with the stats you have, you have to use finesse weapons, meaning no heavy weapons and no great weapon master. This can be mitigated in the early levels by taking either booming blade or green-flame blade, but those tend to fall off after extra attack.

Nope. "You can take each feat only once,"
In that case, I recommend taking Resilient (DEX) and Durable. Or switching Dex and Wis to take Resilient (CON) and Observant. Or just take an ASI to pump them both and forget the saving throw proficiency.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

Necromancy Wizard does NOT multiclass well with Oathbreaker Paladin, correct? Despite having overlapping themes, it would made total and utter MAD right?
Not well, no.

The two make excellent team-mates in a party though.

[bid]

Change 1st level to paladin.

You'd still need Str13 to MC to wizard.
And even then, full plate would slow you down by 10' if you only have Str13.

Still, the problem is you need to start with a martial class to get heavy armor. Starting as paladin is almost necessary, but you should swap Str/Dex for Str16 / Dex8+2.

[Nifft]

The character has 18 Dexterity.

Don't wear Full Plate.

[bid]

The character has 18 Dexterity.

Don't wear Full Plate.


Key themes I'd prefer to have would be:
- Plate Armor (Wading into combat all the way, going head to head, toe to toe, tank or tanky DPS style)
RP concept beats optimisation.

[Ravinsild]

The character has 18 Dexterity.

Don't wear Full Plate.

I was honestly going for a full on Blood Death Knight (Sanlaine or Vladimir from League of Legends, blood magic, siphoning life to heal, or even Diablo 3 style Necromancer who does it too) and Arthas (From Heroes of the Storm, wading first into battle, lots of icy CC, lots of sustain, decent damage, raising the dead, healing through death magic, etc..) style character so full plate is a must.

That said I figured there was a feat or something I could do to get full plate and my DM said she would look over all of this but seems very agreeable to, at the least, let me swap my str with my dex or something. I don't mind low dex, as that seems more slow and menacing.

Honestly I look the idea of what the Blizzard developers said before Legion, about Death Knights low mobility but high damage. Whether they actually did that or not is not the point, it's the idea of a slow moving walking death machine with a spiral of icy cold wind slowly chipping away with an army of zombies, chilling you to the bone and healing off every hit. Like the dungeon where Arthas chases you down the hallway and you feel that sense of dread that you have to go fast, because if he gets to you you're dead no matter what.

I like the slow, menacing aspect that once you get to your target they can't get away, there's nothing they can do about it and you can live forever. Of course DK's die in WoW all the time in raid wipes, etc, but it's the "fantasy" of that archetype more so than it being literal.

I just wanted to see if I could get that fantasy down in D&D, because there's some spells that support it. I don't know if there's any ranged options that deal damage and heal you, I only know of Vampiric Touch, but there may be more options like death coil.

Also I think low dexterity is sort of fun for the idea of just tanking big spells on the chin and keep coming. Imagine chucking all your arsenal at something and it doesn't even bother to dodge, it just keeps coming, slow and looming doom and you can't escape it. This is the anti-ninja. It's just the juggernaut, inevitable death. That's cool.

[Nifft]

I was honestly going for a full on Blood Death Knight (Sanlaine or Vladimir from League of Legends, blood magic, siphoning life to heal, or even Diablo 3 style Necromancer who does it too) and Arthas (From Heroes of the Storm, wading first into battle, lots of icy CC, lots of sustain, decent damage, raising the dead, healing through death magic, etc..) style character so full plate is a must.

That said I figured there was a feat or something I could do to get full plate and my DM said she would look over all of this but seems very agreeable to, at the least, let me swap my str with my dex or something. I don't mind low dex, as that seems more slow and menacing. Cool.

If you drop Dex and raise Strength, then you can wear Full Plate, and you'll have no problem with multi-classing either.

[Ravinsild]

Cool.

If you drop Dex and raise Strength, then you can wear Full Plate, and you'll have no problem with multi-classing either.

That's what I did, I reversed my Dex and Strength so I can multiclass and take the heavy armor proficiency feat.

[thereaper]

Ability Scores and Race
Firstly, given that you have 4 odd stats, I would say that you make a premium candidate for Human. Not variant Human, mind you, but the standard Human, which gets +1 to all stats. This would give you:

18 STR
9 DEX
17 CON
18 INT
14 WIS
16 CHA

OR

15 CON
18 CHA

Another solid option is Half-Elf. Thanks to the variant racial options in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, you can even get back your Wizard cantrip for the cost of Skill Versatility. This would give you:

18 STR (17+1)
13 DEX
15 CON
18 INT (17+1)
8 WIS
18 CHA (16+2)



Half-Elf, definitely. Standard Human, not so much. Standard Human is for people who need 4 or more high stats without one of them being Cha, specifically because if they need one of them to be Cha then Half-Elf instantly becomes better. Your own ability score examples demonstrate this.

And I second the need to change the first class to Paladin. A martial multiclassing into a caster is almost always better than vice versa.

[thoroughlyS]

Change 1st level to paladin.
You'd still need Str13 to MC to wizard.
And even then, full plate would slow you down by 10' if you only have Str13.

Still, the problem is you need to start with a martial class to get heavy armor. Starting as paladin is almost necessary, but you should swap Str/Dex for Str16 / Dex8+2.
Which is why I also recommended switching around stats and race. I wasn't listing the changes by priority, I was listing them by magnitude. Changing to Paladin is a bigger change than swapping stats, but both are important.


That's what I did, I reversed my Dex and Strength so I can multiclass and take the heavy armor proficiency feat.
Can we get an update on what your build is now (e.g. current ability scores, race, class, and equipment/feature/spell selections)?

[bid]

I recommend trying to get 1 and 3.


Which is why I also recommended switching around stats and race. I wasn't listing the changes by priority, I was listing them by magnitude. Changing to Paladin is a bigger change than swapping stats, but both are important.
Well, you confused me there.

It's much better to list by necessity, and explain why. Because the whole castle crumbles if you don't take 4.

[Ravinsild]

Which is why I also recommended switching around stats and race. I wasn't listing the changes by priority, I was listing them by magnitude. Changing to Paladin is a bigger change than swapping stats, but both are important.


Can we get an update on what your build is now (e.g. current ability scores, race, class, and equipment/feature/spell selections)?

https://www.dndbeyond.com/fetch/pdf/KrisseyCakes_314554

[thoroughlyS]

That only works for people with a subscription to D&D Beyond. I have an account and I can't even see it.

[Ravinsild]

That only works for people with a subscription to D&D Beyond. I have an account and I can't even see it.

Whoops, sorry.

Race: High-Elf
Class: Wizard
Level: 1
AC: 10 (I have mage armor spell)
Initiative: +0
HP: 9/9

Strength: 16
Dexterity: 10
Constitution: 17
Intelligence: 18
Wisdom: 13
Charisma: 15

Level 1 Wizard Features
(Arcane Recovery)
(Spellcasting)

Spell Selection:

Cantrips (3):
Chill Touch
Frostbite
Ray of Frost

1st level (6)
Chromatic Orb (Cold)
False Life
Ice Knife
Mage Armor
Ray of Sickness
Identify

Equipment:
Backpack
Bedroll
Blanket
Book
Clothes, Traveler's
Component Pouch
Explorer's Pack
Lute
Pouch
Robes
Spellbook
Staff (Arcane Focus)