Group with 3 full casters, 4th caster or martial?

[Dudewithknives]

Here is my situatio.

No spoilers please.

My friends and I are playing Out of the Abyss and to keep no spoilers last game I took one for the team and save the group but died in the process.

So I need a new character.

We are point buy, anything goes UA, Published and even DM'sguild with approval.

We also have a free feat at first level.

The group has:

A mountain dwarf paladin 2 cleric of death 3
A lizardfolk moon druid 5
And a drow lore bard.

So the choice is, come back as another caster but then if we fight something very caster unfriendly we are kind of screwed or come back as a martial and pretty much sit and do very little while the casters do everything because just about every module is set up with so many rests.

I was thinking either:

A: a Kensei monk with a spear. So he can do some ranged.

B: a Monster Hunter Fighter archer. (Also there is no -5+10 on sharp shooter or GWM)

C: warlock 2 sorcerer 3

Any ideas.

We kind of need ranged damage so I am going with some kind of ranged character

[Ritorix]

Between a moon druid and a paladin/cleric, sounds like you have tanking and melee covered. The lore bard covers face duties and can heal along with the druid and cleric.

For this group I would probably go wizard. Int skills, saves the bard or druid from preparing some rituals, access to a broader set of spells than the bard has, and ranged/aoe nuking.

An alternative may be a rogue, sneak attacking from range and filling in a lot of skills the group may lack.

[lunaticfringe]

If you need a ranged attacker I would probably lean towards Sorclock because I'm not 100% familiar with how your table plays.

Agonizing Eldritch Blast + Devil's Sight. BAM! Done. 120ft vision that doesn't care how dark it is. Eldritch Blast has your Main Job pretty much covered so everything else is just a bonus. You can grab Utility/Buff Spells from the Sorcerer list. Favored Soul with Twinned, even better. Spellsniper is probably a wise feat to grab.

Twin Buff your Frontliners, Pew-Pew-Pew.

[Easy_Lee]

I think you'd be happiest with a caster, based on how you wrote the post. Any kind of wizard should cover the holes in your party's capabilities. They sound weak on damage, so maybe an Evoker is the right choice.

[Paeleus]

Int-based character could help save the party.

EK Fighter 3/Wizard 2. Abjuration/Divination/Theurgy

Abjuration to have a tanking focus. Druid and Palric are prob up front?? Not so good then.

Divination if wanting Portent. Take the Lucky feat to make your DM miserable.

Theurgy (War Domain, of course) to nab Divine Favor and Spiritual Weapon. If you can reach a third level in wizard, Divine Arcana will be awesome for some second level shut down spells. But a +10 to hit from the Channel Divinity is always nice.

Also check out the Artificer. Int, some skills, and a Thundercannon/Your Mother's Purse ain't to shabby.


EDIT: Check out War Magic Wizard as well. Sounds like increased survivability with Arcane Deflection and boosts to Initiative with Tactical Wit.

[UnwiseAlistair]

I personally suggest rogue, if you can get longbow proficiency by a feat, race or dip I highly encourage it. Assassin if you want the super deadly surprise shot, theif for utility belt shenanigans, A. Trickster if you don't want to miss out on casting. Melee seems well covered between paladin and Druid wild shapes. Whatever archetype you get you have a lot of useful skills, expertise, theive's tools, and that sweet, sweet sneak attack damage.

[Easy_Lee]

I personally suggest rogue, if you can get longbow proficiency by a feat, race or dip I highly encourage it. Assassin if you want the super deadly surprise shot, theif for utility belt shenanigans, A. Trickster if you don't want to miss out on casting. Melee seems well covered between paladin and Druid wild shapes. Whatever archetype you get you have a lot of useful skills, expertise, theive's tools, and that sweet, sweet sneak attack damage.

There's a lore bard in the party along with a druid. Lore Bards make better skill monkeys, and moon druids make better scouts. I wouldn't recommend rogue for his situation.

[RSP]

Can easily do either bladelock or bladesinger if you want caster and still maintain the ability to be a back up melee character. Either one should fit nicely with the other PCs.

[Dudewithknives]

Great suggestions so far, some more info if it helps.

1. The group are all extremely well versed in the forgotten Realms lore due to reading most of the novels. However they are not gameologists, I have been playing D&D for 20 years but always have problems making up my mind on characters.

2. The the paladin/cleric is all melee beat stick with a greatsword. High str and con, ok wisdom, he is a smite machine and buffer.

3. The druid is not much of a scout, he does not even shape shift to fight that much yet because between a shillelagh swing and bonus bite his damage in melee is quite good.

4. The bard is all support and debuffing he has almost no damage spells yet. Great role player but not a combat strategist.

5. I worry if I play a caster that as soon as we fight something that is anti magic like a beholder or the like we are screwed.


Having decent charisma would be a plus, I tend to do most of the talking anyway.

[RSP]

5. I worry if I play a caster that as soon as we fight something that is anti magic like a beholder or the like we are screwed.

Having decent charisma would be a plus, I tend to do most of the talking anyway.

Yeah I'd go bladelock (Hexblade patron from UA if allowed). Should give you great ranged via EB, some good AoEs and utility spells, Chr for FaceTime, and a solid melee option to get in the mix when needed (without stepping on the Pally's toes).

[Ovarwa]

Divination Wizard, emphasizing control.

You have 2 melee characters, with plenty of healing. You don't have wizardly control. You also seem worried about bad things happening, so Portent seems rather useful.

But if you can take *anything*, then take UA Lore Wizard and don't look back. This is primary caster of primary casters. Choose your damage type and saving throw on the fly? Priceless. Not as useful if you fear not being able to cast.

Favored Soul original version might suit you better.

But if you want to do ranged damage and want Cha, maybe just plain warlock? Sharpshooter has been nerfed in your game, so no need to waste time on real archery; EB+AB FTW. Warlocks aren't *real* spellcasters, but they do get *something*. Tome gives you access to all the rituals. Overall, plenty of choices.

If you have lots of long rests, then a real spellcaster is best, and even now, no caster is more real than a Wizard.

[8wGremlin]

Drow - hexblade (pact of the chain) 3/favoured soul 2
Play as a coffee-lock:

no long rests for you, meditate (4 hours) and then take 4 short rests, converting your warlock slots over to sorcerer spell points, and then to spells slots
these extra slots don't go away until you long rest!
dark vision


You can wield 1-h melee weapons using CHA, and get medium armour and shields, you have curse, and possibly hex.
pump CHA > Dex (14 min) > Con

AC should be breastplate + shield + dex (+2) = 18ac.

You get healing with the cure light wounds spell, and have access to cleric spells, get spells that buff your team, they will love you and then twin them, more people will love you (eventually you'll have haste, warding bond)

If you get the UA invocation "Gift of the undying ones" allows you to max your healing on yourself.
Also take Fiendish Vigor as another invocation.
You also get shield, an Imp familiar (invisible scout, and portable safe).

Take Inspiring Leader as your feat or Warcaster.

Tactics


Use Cure light wounds (which is maxed due to Gift of the Ever-Living Ones) on your self to keep you up
If you have Inspiring leader feat to add extra temp hp to your other party members
You also have Fiendish Vigor to give yourself more temp hp, as well as armour of agathys or aid to the party (when you get it)
Note that you should usually be casting most of these through your new sorcerer slots
You can give all your party members familiars with the ceremony + find familiar combo



Next level take Sorcerer 3, and get twin and quicken


Twin cast Warding bond on two targets and half damage goes to them, and to you
You can twin other spells including cure light wounds, and use them through your invisible intelligent familiar


Take booming blade (twinable), eldritch blast (2 rays per cast). as cantrips

A very effective all round character and not your typical blaster sorclock... I've played this build to level 8 and it's a BLAST!
(see what I did there....)

[Mortis_Elrod]

I would recommend Mystic 3/fighter 2 (going for arcane archer)

Go awakened, pick up precognition, aura sight, nomadic arrow, Mastery of the force.

Now you are a Mystic Archer. One with eyes and arrows that pierce everything. Oh and a healthy dose of force powers. Later levels go into fighter, be a high or half elf and pick up the elvish accuracy feat as your freeby, and your favorite cantrip.


You are ranged
Don't worry about armor (MoF gives 14 +full Dex, later pick up heavy or don't )
Don't worry about anti magic, your arcane archer abilities are not spells OR psionics.
Have great defenses via precognition
Good skills and investigative prowess via awakened
All the fighter goodies (action surge, fighting style, later extra feats)
Not MAD (Dex and Int only stats needing to worry about)
Versatile
Flavorful .
Extra flavorful.

[Dudewithknives]

I would recommend Mystic 3/fighter 2 (going for arcane archer)

Go awakened, pick up precognition, aura sight, nomadic arrow, Mastery of the force.

Now you are a Mystic Archer. One with eyes and arrows that pierce everything. Oh and a healthy dose of force powers. Later levels go into fighter, be a high or half elf and pick up the elvish accuracy feat as your freeby, and your favorite cantrip.


You are ranged
Don't worry about armor (MoF gives 14 +full Dex, later pick up heavy or don't )
Don't worry about anti magic, your arcane archer abilities are not spells OR psionics.
Have great defenses via precognition
Good skills and investigative prowess via awakened
All the fighter goodies (action surge, fighting style, later extra feats)
Not MAD (Dex and Int only stats needing to worry about)
Versatile
Flavorful .
Extra flavorful.

I looked hard at arcane archer, it was one of my favorite classes back in the day, but I am not sure I can put up with 2 uses ever on their arrows, the fact that they do not increase in number over time is bad design.

[Citan]

Here is my situatio.

No spoilers please.

My friends and I are playing Out of the Abyss and to keep no spoilers last game I took one for the team and save the group but died in the process.

So I need a new character.

We are point buy, anything goes UA, Published and even DM'sguild with approval.

We also have a free feat at first level.

The group has:

A mountain dwarf paladin 2 cleric of death 3
A lizardfolk moon druid 5
And a drow lore bard.

So the choice is, come back as another caster but then if we fight something very caster unfriendly we are kind of screwed or come back as a martial and pretty much sit and do very little while the casters do everything because just about every module is set up with so many rests.

I was thinking either:

A: a Kensei monk with a spear. So he can do some ranged.

B: a Monster Hunter Fighter archer. (Also there is no -5+10 on sharp shooter or GWM)

C: warlock 2 sorcerer 3

Any ideas.

We kind of need ranged damage so I am going with some kind of ranged character
Hi!
I think you nailed it yourself (don't know about Kensei though): if you want to be sure to be useful, pick one that has decent to good defense and ranged options.
Because I think your group may really get the use for another character that can stand its grounds in the front line when needed.

A few ideas...

1. (Sun Soul) Monk: great mobility, built-in ranged, built-in AOE, decent defense (that can be boosted if needed through a Warding Bond from your friend), Stunning Strike: good asset to go pick up those few enemies that would be hard to catch with spells. Variant: Long Death for the AOE "Fear" action. Although may be boring in the long run.

2. Rogue: pick Arcane Trickster, grab Shield and Absorb Elements, you can either unleash Sneak Attack from a distance or duel with one enemy, trying to lure enemies towards a direction (although you cannot tank per se).

3. Barbarian: "if my friends live by magic, I will live against the magic"! Take Bear Totem, stack on shield and defensive feats (like Tough), and go fly into enemy troops like a fly to its meal, while casters unleash AOE with you at the center. Ranged damage is a problem though, unless you pick Sharpshooter and go all Roman legion style (Javelin and shield) or TWF style with Dual Wielder and Sharpshooter paired together for maximum versatility (a dip in Fighter for TWF style would be a good idea though).

4. Eldricht Knight: probably the best option for you, because many built-in things. Either go Dex with Sharpshooter bow while keeping a rapier and shield for encounters in which you want to tank, or go Longsword and shield, learning Firebolt to get a strong ranged option when necessary. If you want to team with Paladin, the latter will be great with Shield Master and Protection Fighting Style.
Same as Barbarian, if you want maximum versatility between melee and range you could go TWF instead, but considering that you can learn good ranged cantrips it's probably not worth it.

5. Warlock 2 / Sorcerer 3: it can work very well, I guess you thought about it for Agonizing Blast with Shield for defense and potential Quickened Agonizing Blast. It means you would always stay in the back line though.

6. Abjurer Wizard with a starting dip in Fighter: with cantrips, you can do well in melee and ranged equally, you can get a pretty good AC with Arcane Ward on top, plus you can cover all spells that your pals couldn't get and INT skills.

EDIT: OMG didn't see the part about free feat and "(nearly) anything goes". I would be tempted to send you my homebrew. :smallbiggrin::smalltongue:

More seriously, since you don't seem against multiclassing and apparently start with a lvl 5 character...
Let me suggest the following strange but efficient build.
Hexblade Warlock 1 / Bladesinger Wizard 4* (Resilient: Constitution): main DEX and CON, INT third, CHA just enough to multiclass: for now use weapon cantrip. When you reach Wizard 5, you can Haste yourself. When you reach Wizard 6, you get Extra Attack. Then you can grab a level in Fighter to go TWF style (or Crossbow Expert style if you wish so, but less synergy later). Benefits

a) By character level 9, you can become a fearsome opponent who unleashes 1 (basic), 2 (Extra), 3 (Haste), 4 (bonus action) attacks for 1d8+3+proficiency. Later on you can even add INT modifier on your melee weapon attacks.
b) As for ranged attack, cantrips and spells should cover that (or throwing daggers at lower level). Or you can grab another level of Warlock to unlock the Agonizing or Repelling Blast, or both (with UA in game, I'd suggest considering the UA Invocation that reduces enemy speed: together with Repelling Blast, it makes for a fearsome soft control tool).
c) You should also get a pretty good AC overall: Mage Armor + Bladesong = at least AC 19, not accounting for Mirror Image/Blur/Haste or external Warding Bond / Shield of Faith. You also get emergency Shield / Absorb Elements.

Just beware that you are not a good meatshield because mostly a d6 character, so if you want to really woosh around on front line, a Warding Bond from your pal should be cast preventively. ;)

Other advantage of this build is keeping your options opened: a very small bit of Rogue to get Expertise in your Charisma skills? Another Fighter level to unleash two opening spells (Action Surge)? Sorcerer to get some nice Metamagic on your current spells? Just pumping Wizard asap for better spells?
If your friends don't mind, even dipping Paladin or Lore Bard could be a nice idea...

* Note that I didn't suggest Warlock / Barbarian because of bonus action competition. Otherwise, it could be nice too. :)

[Rogerdodger557]

I looked hard at arcane archer, it was one of my favorite classes back in the day, but I am not sure I can put up with 2 uses ever on their arrows, the fact that they do not increase in number over time is bad design.

Preach it.

[Dudewithknives]

Hi!
I think you nailed it yourself (don't know about Kensei though): if you want to be sure to be useful, pick one that has decent to good defense and ranged options.
Because I think your group may really get the use for another character that can stand its grounds in the front line when needed.

A few ideas...

1. (Sun Soul) Monk: great mobility, built-in ranged, built-in AOE, decent defense (that can be boosted if needed through a Warding Bond from your friend), Stunning Strike: good asset to go pick up those few enemies that would be hard to catch with spells. Variant: Long Death for the AOE "Fear" action. Although may be boring in the long run.

2. Rogue: pick Arcane Trickster, grab Shield and Absorb Elements, you can either unleash Sneak Attack from a distance or duel with one enemy, trying to lure enemies towards a direction (although you cannot tank per se).

3. Barbarian: "if my friends live by magic, I will live against the magic"! Take Bear Totem, stack on shield and defensive feats (like Tough), and go fly into enemy troops like a fly to its meal, while casters unleash AOE with you at the center. Ranged damage is a problem though, unless you pick Sharpshooter and go all Roman legion style (Javelin and shield) or TWF style with Dual Wielder and Sharpshooter paired together for maximum versatility (a dip in Fighter for TWF style would be a good idea though).

4. Eldricht Knight: probably the best option for you, because many built-in things. Either go Dex with Sharpshooter bow while keeping a rapier and shield for encounters in which you want to tank, or go Longsword and shield, learning Firebolt to get a strong ranged option when necessary. If you want to team with Paladin, the latter will be great with Shield Master and Protection Fighting Style.
Same as Barbarian, if you want maximum versatility between melee and range you could go TWF instead, but considering that you can learn good ranged cantrips it's probably not worth it.

5. Warlock 2 / Sorcerer 3: it can work very well, I guess you thought about it for Agonizing Blast with Shield for defense and potential Quickened Agonizing Blast. It means you would always stay in the back line though.

6. Abjurer Wizard with a starting dip in Fighter: with cantrips, you can do well in melee and ranged equally, you can get a pretty good AC with Arcane Ward on top, plus you can cover all spells that your pals couldn't get and INT skills.

Great advice, I think I have a plan now.

I am going to go with a Human, Monster Hunter Fighter, with Archery Fighting Style, Crossbow Expert with a hand crossbow, taking the bonus feat the GM gave us at level 1 as Martial Adept, for an extra superiority die and a choice of 2 maneuvers from the Battlemaster list to add to the ones from Monster Hunter.

In our game Sharpshooter and GWM lost the traits for -5 hit / +10 damage and gained a +1 Str or +1 Dex respectively. So it is good but not a first priority, I will take it at level 6 though.

[kingheff1]

I'd go for a bardlock, three levels of bard (lore college) and two levels of warlock for eldritch blast, naturally.
Eldritch blast gives you a decent ranged attack whilst bard should give you decent control and support options on top of your baseline blasts.
Not the most imaginative build but should slot in great with the other characters.

[Dudewithknives]

I'd go for a bardlock, three levels of bard (lore college) and two levels of warlock for eldritch blast, naturally.
Eldritch blast gives you a decent ranged attack whilst bard should give you decent control and support options on top of your baseline blasts.
Not the most imaginative build but should slot in great with the other characters.

If we did not already have a lore bard, I would go bardlock. I don't want to step on toes.

[kingheff1]

Fair enough, if the druid isn't doing the scouting role I'd suggest an arcane trickster rogue 3, fighter 2.
Forest gnome seems a very solid option for the stats and free cantrip.
For the feat crossbow expert is what I'd choose, going with a light crossbow rather than trying to dual wield with a hand crossbow.
Fighter 2 for the archery style and action surge, which I'd probably save for a botched sneak attack at a crucial time.
Background I'd probably go for charlatan for the nice tool proficiencies.

[Afrodactyl]

I would go bladelock/hexblade (maybe even dipping Paladin 2 for short-rest smites for extra melee punch) or Eldritch Knight 3/Wizard 2.

Plenty of melee options, plenty of magic options.

[GorogIrongut]

I know I'm late to the party, but I'd go Eldritch Knight 3/ Divination/Abjuration 2. And just ride the wizard train from that point on out.

[Specter]

With a Paladin and a Moon Druid, chances are your two friends will be melee focused, so a Wolf Barbarian is a solid option.

[Dudewithknives]

With a Paladin and a Moon Druid, chances are your two friends will be melee focused, so a Wolf Barbarian is a solid option.

Yeah, I love wolf totem, however we are pretty lacking on ranged damage. We need consistent ranged damage, just not sure if I should go martial with a weapon or a caster. If I goncaster though that means our only real damage is from magic for the whole party.

[Specter]

Yeah, I love wolf totem, however we are pretty lacking on ranged damage. We need consistent ranged damage, just not sure if I should go martial with a weapon or a caster. If I goncaster though that means our only real damage is from magic for the whole party.

What really matters is being able to do ranged damage when necessary (flying enemies, chasms, etc.). I don't think there's any reason to NEED archery in a group, as long as you all have contigencies for when range is required.

[StorytellerHero]

SORCERER 5 with the Spell Sniper feat - choose Eldritch Blast for the free cantrip (since Warlock also uses Charisma).

That should cover you for ranged and area control (depending on spell selection) very well.