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View Full Version : The varying value of Feats



Fhaolan
2007-08-10, 03:36 PM
Okay, it becomes fairly clear that not all feats are equal. For the cost of one feat slot you could get Collegiate Wizard (for which you get significant benefits every level), or Toughness (for a minor bonus once). There are many feats that are considerably more useful than average, and several that are less-than-stellar.

I had a weird idea today, and I was curious to see what the reaction is. Rather than going through every feat in the books and attempt to re-balance them so the cost/benefit analysis comes out a bit smoother... how about rating the feats by utility, and if you pick a feat that is considered ‘underpowered’, you get a couple of extra skill points to compensate? And any that are ‘overpowered’ would cost a couple of skill points (in addition to the feat slot)?

Just an idea to throw out there…

Seatbelt
2007-08-10, 03:44 PM
In my game, some feats, like toughness, are replaced by Improved Toughness, which is 1 HP per HD, retroactive. But I like the idea of saying prereq feats, like Weapon Focus (+1 to hit) also give you a neat trick, like an extra +1/5 levels once/5 levels.

AKA_Bait
2007-08-10, 04:07 PM
I wouldn't really go for this. Part of the reason is that feats are as important as prereq's for some Prc's. Some of the weaker feats are frequently chosen as prerequs for the Prc's as a way to balance out the benifts of the Prc. Make them better, or give free skill points with them, and you run the risk of making those Prc's too easy to get into.

Matthew
2007-08-10, 04:08 PM
There is something like that available on the Wizards Boards, I think. It was part of the Point Buy D&D Variant. Honestly, I'm not sure how to value something like Power Attack. I definitely think Feats should be somehow balanced against their purchasing value.

Tellah
2007-08-10, 04:55 PM
Feats do vary a lot, to be sure, and as a thought exercise I find it useful to evaluate feats in terms of replicability through magic items and opportunity cost in choosing one over another. That said, from a game design perspective I'm fully comfortable with having some feats outshine others. If they were all perfectly balanced against one another, then I couldn't congratulate myself on my own cleverness at picking the most optimal and fitting feat for a particular build.

As a DM, I allow feat retraining to address this issue. It's my feeling that a majority of under-powered feats are quite useful for the first few levels, but lose their luster as a character grows. With retraining, Toughness is a no-brainer first-level feat for a sorceror, wizard or psion, assuming he doesn't need a first-level-only feat. I let my players swap out one existing feat every time they gain a new feat. I'd like to say that this method has encouraged them to try different feats, but in truth they haven't used the privilege at all.

Matthew
2007-08-10, 05:28 PM
That's a good idea, Tellah. I like the Retraining Rules, and your implementation sounds quite balanced.

ArmorArmadillo
2007-08-10, 06:49 PM
Toughness has it's uses:
As a DM designing low level adventures, giving a level 1 or 2 NPC Toughness increases their Hp significantly, leading to better encounters.

The problem isn't that some feats aren't good enough (well, it kind of is) but the REAL problem is that players don't have enough feats to chose from, and the selections they do have are almost always tied up in necessities or prereqs.

Frankly, every class should give bonus feats, some more or less than others.

Laesin
2007-08-10, 06:56 PM
Seatbelt, your improved toughness is almost exactly our houseruled toughness, plus one hitpoint per level to date and an increase in hit die by one category from that point on. We also rule as standard that the minimum you can roll on your hit die is your natural con modifiier.

Greenfaun
2007-08-10, 07:03 PM
There is something like that available on the Wizards Boards, I think. It was part of the Point Buy D&D Variant. Honestly, I'm not sure how to value something like Power Attack. I definitely think Feats should be somehow balanced against their purchasing value.

This is a tangent, but do you mean there's a fan-variant for classless D&D? If so, do you have a link for that?

Arbitrarity
2007-08-10, 07:34 PM
Google giveth me this, but it may not be right. (http://forum.rpg.net/archive/index.php/t-145626.html)

Matthew
2007-08-10, 08:26 PM
This is a tangent, but do you mean there's a fan-variant for classless D&D? If so, do you have a link for that?

Fan based, as I recall, and I just viewed it in passing from a link on the Homebrew Forum.