Possibilities of a trickery cleric

[Dankus Memakus]

I'm here to ask a simple question can a trickery cleric make a pseudo-rogue? I just need him to be sneaky and able to steal things and stuff.

[kingheff1]

Just take the criminal background, wear light armour and have a good Dex, you should be a competent thief, if not as good as a rogue.

[Maxilian]

You only need a good DEX, if you want to make sure to be as good (or better) than the Rogue, in their normal rogue things, MC 2 lvls into Rogue, that way you get:

-Bonus action to Dash, Disengage, Hide (giving you the mobility of any rogue)
-Expertise (This will make you as good as any Rogue at hiding, can also take the Expertise in Sleight of Hands, to make sure you are as good at stealing

[Willie the Duck]

I'm here to ask a simple question can a trickery cleric make a pseudo-rogue? I just need him to be sneaky and able to steal things and stuff.

By pseudo-rogue, do you mean--
1) play as the party stealthy scout, safe-cracker, and skill monkey, or
2) play as the party skirmisher, glass cannon, and who has a skill or two that slowly becomes the best in the game?

Because yes to 1, no to 2. A rogue is an entire class. If you could get everything that a rogue is inside a spellcasting classes archetype bonuses, that would be a serious design flaw. But yes, a trickery cleric can be a party skill monkey. Heck, at first level, any cleric in with the right background and armor that doesn't impose disadvantage on stealth can be a perfectly good skill monkey. Guidance is a cantrip that at level one is better than being proficient in a skill (giving 2.5 avg. while proficiency grants 2), and can be used any time you are able to cast a spell (so not when sneaking) ahead of time (so, not reactive stuff like).

[Tanarii]

You can, but it's not optimal. The trickery cleric Domain is primarily a defensively oriented buffer with a bunch of tricks up their sleeve, and a extra little weapon offense. Not a stealth ambush / hit-and-run, high-dpr striker. IMO they're generally still best served built like a 'default' Medium Armor cleric: Wis primary, Str secondary, Dex 10-14. Half-plate, Shield & Mace, or 2H Spear.

[Dankus Memakus]

You can, but it's not optimal. The trickery cleric Domain is primarily a defensively oriented buffer with a bunch of tricks up their sleeve, and a extra little weapon offense. Not a stealth ambush / hit-and-run, high-dpr striker. IMO they're generally still best served built like a 'default' Medium Armor cleric: Wis primary, Str secondary, Dex 10-14. Half-plate, Shield & Mace, or 2H Spear.

I probably will still use medium armor at lower levels but i plan to use a crossbow and a dagger and use DEX and dump STR. I need to be able to steal and sneak not be a hit and run dpr guy. I just wanna be able to be sneaky but still play a healing role.

Edit:and I plan on not multiclassing and grabbing crossbow expert at level 4

[Tanarii]

If you're going to dump Str, check how your DM rules encumberance. And check the weight of your starting kit. Scale mail isn't light.

[Specter]

I probably will still use medium armor at lower levels but i plan to use a crossbow and a dagger and use DEX and dump STR. I need to be able to steal and sneak not be a hit and run dpr guy. I just wanna be able to be sneaky but still play a healing role.

Edit:and I plan on not multiclassing and grabbing crossbow expert at level 4

In this case, probably. Your sneaking can be as good as a rogue with Pass Without Trace, which IIRC Trickery gets. As far as stealing, Charm Person and a little Charisma will suit you better than Sleight of Hand.

[Dankus Memakus]

If you're going to dump Str, check how your DM rules encumberance. And check the weight of your starting kit. Scale mail isn't light.

our rules of encumbrance is just "if you don't have anything ridiculous don't worry about it"

[Biggstick]

In this case, probably. Your sneaking can be as good as a rogue with Pass Without Trace, which IIRC Trickery gets. As far as stealing, Charm Person and a little Charisma will suit you better than Sleight of Hand.

Trickery Clerics also get Disguise Self on their always prepared list and can grab Enhance Ability as one of their prepared spells for the day. Both can be cast on the PC, and if one has expertise in whatever Charisma based skill one is attempting to use, you'll probably get by with having a simple 10 Charisma.

Someone above pointed out that Trickery Clerics are great as defensive minded Clerics with a few tricks up their sleeves. I absolutely agree with this. You shouldn't be looking as the character as a suitable replacement for having a Rogue (class) in the party. You should be looking at the character as one who can fill the rogue role in the party (which is trap finding and disarming). You'll have more supporting magic then the typical Rogue, but you're only filling the rogue role in a party, not playing as a Rogue.

[Tanarii]

but you're only filling the rogue role in a party, not playing as a Rogue.
That's a much better way of putting it than I did.

It's certainly possible to fill some of the "Rogue role" in the party with a Trickery Cleric, or any High Dex character really, by selecting the right Backgrounds and skills. This is true for many party roles of course. Any character can fill some of the know things role with Int + Lote Skills, some of the party face role with Cha + interaction skills, some of the wilderness guy role with Survival + Wis, scout role with Stealth + Perception + Dex + Wis, trap expert role with Theives Tools + Dex + Investigation + Int. etc etc.

Edit: my primary point was that people seem to love to think of the Trickery Domain as the "Rogue/Cleric" domain. It's not particularly, although it certainly works okay with a Dex-oriented cleric if you want that.

[Willie the Duck]

... fill some of the know things role with Int + Lote Skills, some of the party face role with Cha + interaction skills...

Just don't use your Lote (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lote)skills with any kind of interaction skills, or you won't be riding your horse the rest of the day! :smallbiggrin:

[Citan]

Trickery Clerics also get Disguise Self on their always prepared list and can grab Enhance Ability as one of their prepared spells for the day. Both can be cast on the PC, and if one has expertise in whatever Charisma based skill one is attempting to use, you'll probably get by with having a simple 10 Charisma.

Someone above pointed out that Trickery Clerics are great as defensive minded Clerics with a few tricks up their sleeves. I absolutely agree with this. You shouldn't be looking as the character as a suitable replacement for having a Rogue (class) in the party. You should be looking at the character as one who can fill the rogue role in the party (which is trap finding and disarming). You'll have more supporting magic then the typical Rogue, but you're only filling the rogue role in a party, not playing as a Rogue.
Feel compelled to quote that (although I sadly have nothing more to contribute) because this seems just such a great summary of Trickery Clerics to me. ;)

[Chance404]

Absolutely. 5e backgrounds are a great way to get access to rogue skills like sleight of hand, stealth, thieves tools etc. In addition, the Guidance cantrip is your best friend. Anytime you know you need to make a check you can cast that on yourself for a 1d4 bonus. You have access to charm person and disguise self along with some other good spells too.


I'm here to ask a simple question can a trickery cleric make a pseudo-rogue? I just need him to be sneaky and able to steal things and stuff.