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GryffonDurime
2007-08-10, 10:24 PM
Right, so college is almost back in session, which means that it's about time for me to start planning a campaign for my delightful little group, and I've decided to try planning something in a Node-based way, creating the groups and powers and then giving the players a bit more freedom in choosing where to apply their attention. While the players pursue their own ends, each faction will most likely still be progressing towards their own goal. With that in mind, I was hoping to get some feedback on my preliminary planning: opinions, feedback, suggestions, etc. With that said...this is my first attempt at producing something nodebased so, before I even tackle problems with my specific setting, does anyone have any general advice for things that worked well in this style of DMing?

For example: I'm working to create five basic opposing forces and a sixth neutral force. Each one is pursuing it's own goal, mostly at the expense of the other powers. While the players will, hopefully, be free to tackle these forces at any time in any order they wish, time spent in combating any one faction will also see other factions progress--especially if the players just took out one of their enemies for them. Has anyone had problems with this kind of system stacking the deck against their players?

Mike_Lemmer
2007-08-10, 10:40 PM
How many of the factions are on the players' side? If none, then yeah, they're probably screwed. One or two factions on the players' side (or could be on the players' side) makes a big difference, especially if, by destroying one faction, they free up enough resources for their allies to hinder the other factions even more.

You could also use the Business Mentality that the larger and more successful a faction is, the more sluggish, bureaucratic, and leak-prone it becomes. It'd give the players more ways to worm into a larger faction and collapse it.

GryffonDurime
2007-08-10, 10:56 PM
How many of the factions are on the players' side? If none, then yeah, they're probably screwed. One or two factions on the players' side (or could be on the players' side) makes a big difference, especially if, by destroying one faction, they free up enough resources for their allies to hinder the other factions even more.
The neutral faction could, theoretically be on their side, as could one of the warring ones. I also tried to include at least one "in" into each faction: someone who can be swayed to the players' side, usually fairly powerful--in one case a truly epic level 30 (or higher) Artificer...sadly, he's incorporeal, but still!


You could also use the Business Mentality that the larger and more successful a faction is, the more sluggish, bureaucratic, and leak-prone it becomes. It'd give the players more ways to worm into a larger faction and collapse it.
The problem being that at least two of the factions circumvent the business beuracracy model with mind control.

These are not nice factions, and each one is typically trying to ressurect their own aberrant god. Think the Cthullhu equivalents of Love, Truth, and Order.

Mike_Lemmer
2007-08-10, 11:34 PM
Well damn, do you really want to run a You vs Everyone game? Or make it look like these factions have grown unhindered by the forces of good all this time? You should make some more good/neutral factions to oppose them and put just as much time into them as you did the evil factions; perhaps more, since the PCs will actually RP with them more often.

Have the good factions be the ones slowing down the evil factions' ascendence. Have them set back the evil factions occasionally without the PCs' help. You want the PCs to have support, or at least someone they can ask for help & advice if they get stuck. The PCs are there to turn the tide of the war, not fight the enemy single-handedly.

My analogy:
-The evil factions are the robbers taking hostages.
-The good factions are the cops keeping them from getting out.
-The PCs are the SWAT team sent in.

Be sure to make the good factions as interesting as the evil factions. Some ideas:

An anti-domination group led by githzerai. They think most factions using mind control are involved with mind flayers somehow and can provide psionic and anti-enchantment support to those willing to fight them.
A divine order, led by eladrin, trying to reconstruct a powerful anti-undead relic. At full power, the relic eradicated any undead within a half-dozen miles. Even partially constructed, it weakens undead within its radius.
A group of neutral (bent towards good) tricksters & spies that realized the problem with infiltrating evil cults was that few good people were willing to do what it took to enter. They've picked up the slack; their agents are willing to slaughter children and sacrifice virgins to weasel their way in, but once they do, they cause as much damage as possible, willing to taint their own souls for the greater good.
A retired villain that makes his home in the city. Although he was a robber and murderer in other lands, he never caused trouble in his homeland and is actually quite fond of it. He doesn't take rumors of cults attempting to destroy his city (along with the world) very well, and is overjoyed to help anyone willing to take them down, even good adventurers... provided they don't hassle him about his past deeds. He has experience, and knows how to run (and destroy) an evil cult better than most cultists.

And the mind controlled factions have their own set of problems:
1. Your employees defect after a simple Dispel Magic or Break Enchantment.
2. Mind-controlling cults attract enemies like moths to a porchlight. You've got the usual good guys, but also the chaotic independence guys, the githzerai, the githyanki, the evil ones that don't like the idea of you mind controlling them. Honestly, mind controllers should get more flak than necromancers.

GryffonDurime
2007-08-11, 11:29 AM
And the mind controlled factions have their own set of problems:
1. Your employees defect after a simple Dispel Magic or Break Enchantment.
2. Mind-controlling cults attract enemies like moths to a porchlight. You've got the usual good guys, but also the chaotic independence guys, the githzerai, the githyanki, the evil ones that don't like the idea of you mind controlling them. Honestly, mind controllers should get more flak than necromancers.

All very good advice, but sadly not too relevant as the setting is almost exclusively human and the mind control is less the result of a spell and more the result of a horrifying elder goddess of Love with abandonment issues.

The main problem with creating forces allied to the players is that all three of the major enemy factions are hiding behind various false identities, through which they've managed to garner a very respectable reputation, at least as far as the City-States of the setting are concerned. I didn't set out with the intention of creating a setting that would be so...one-sided...but that's the way it's evolved, and I think it will make an interesting challenge for my players...still, I am worried about making them think that I'm just out to get them.

bingo_bob
2007-08-11, 12:15 PM
Why not have a set 'Doom Track' (Yes, I play Arkham Horror) for each faction? That is, a representation of how close they are to their goal. As the players fight against a particular faction, that faction's track moves down, while the others continue to progress.

Be upfront with your players about this. It'd make for a neat consideration for them. Faction A is closer to reaching the end of it's track (Thereby achieving their goal), but if Faction B moves up another step, they manage to start summoning Pseudonatural creatures, and become that much harder.

Also, be sure to have the factions lash out at each other. Every so often, have one faction move to attack another one. Heck, if this happened at the same time that the PCs were going against the attacked one, that could be pretty interesting.

Their allies should move up their track slower, or have a much longer track than the other factions. That way you don't have the good guys winning too early.

I think that'd work pretty well, at least.

Mike_Lemmer
2007-08-11, 12:18 PM
The main problem with creating forces allied to the players is that all three of the major enemy factions are hiding behind various false identities, through which they've managed to garner a very respectable reputation, at least as far as the City-States of the setting are concerned. I didn't set out with the intention of creating a setting that would be so...one-sided...but that's the way it's evolved, and I think it will make an interesting challenge for my players...still, I am worried about making them think that I'm just out to get them.

As you should be. A recent campaign almost crashed & burned because of something similar. We were infiltrating a corrupted city for a small rebel force when we discovered our contact was a double-agent who quickly burnt down our base, killed every other contact we had, assassinated all our connections to other groups, and sicked the entire police force on us. We were left on the run and trapped in the sewers with no allies and an entire city out to get us.

The GM got pissed when the best plans we came up with were "leave the city and never come back" and "go on a kamikaze killing spree".

And even if they are respectable, they should still have allies against them. If everyone of note is either an evil faction member or completely oblivious/helpless to their threat, then you're not running a fantasy game, you're running a Cthulhu-esque/dystopia game. That's fine if you enjoy emphasizing the futility of goodness and the inevitable encroachment of evil, but I assume you're going for something a bit more upbeat than that.

The enemy factions aren't perfect, their cover identities can't hide everything, and the forces of good are not all lazy, incompetent, or stupid. Even if the allied factions aren't sure who is the real threat, they should realize there's a threat and be getting closer to the truth (just not fast enough to stop them in time without the PCs' intervention).

If you're still having trouble finding ways to even the odds for your players, try this: imagine the evil factions are run by PCs with a sadistic archon for a GM. How many antagonists and monkey wrenches would he throw into their plots? How often would he ask if they have enough gold to complete that horrid shrine? How often would their minions roll a 1?

Fax Celestis
2007-08-11, 12:34 PM
Something I've found interesting is planning out a timeline of events that happen, regardless of the PCs influence.

Diggorian
2007-08-11, 12:34 PM
Without writing your entire campaign setting here I'd need more of a summary of your factions. What methods do they each specialize in to further their goals, whom do they oppose and why, what will be the result of their ultimate success?

You've got three resurrecting different gods (sounds repetitive to me) and a "neutral" group; what is the last neutral in respect to and what are the other three?

EDIT: Yeah, a timeline is a good way track campaign pacing. however, PC influence should alter things.

UglyPanda
2007-08-11, 12:35 PM
You could keep track of how close each faction is to their goals and adjust accordingly. You could also set an arbitrary date for each individual plan to work out as they would and make it occur sooner or later depending on the actions of the PCs.

Example:
Faction A, operation screaming thunder -PCs and Faction A are both looking for McGuffin C in Dungeon X. If McGuffin C is found by PCs and given to faction A, final confrontation with other factions occurs in thirteen days; If found by lieutenant of Faction A, final confrontation with other factions occurs in fifteen days; If found by PCs and destroyed, move to plan B; etc.

You can also set time lines for when events occur (jailbreaks, assassinations, dungeon raids) and if the PCs happen to be there, then they can participate. If they're not there, they simply hear about it in the news.

If a PC can kill an important NPC, consider him already dead. Plan ahead for this.

GryffonDurime
2007-08-11, 01:00 PM
Hmm...I guess I'll post a short synopsis of the major powers of the world, then. The only major event that you really need to know to get the context for most of their machinations is that the Royal Palace, along with all the nobility and citizens of its surronding city, was decimated five years ago by unknown causes and the major citys of the Kingdom have largely accepted and embraced their independent status as City-States.

The Players - The players will represent a small faction of loyalists seeking a way to reunite the kingdom, all the while investigating the destruction of the Palace itself.
The Former Queen - The only survivor of the destruction of the Palace, the Queen has gone into hiding, allowing herself to be thought dead. Out of rage and grief, she is currently perfecting necromantic powers that would allow her to revive all those lost in the attack, including her family. To that end, she's secretly been stealing royal artifacts from the City-States.
The Church - The Church of St. Rosalind appears to be a typical church venerating a goddess of love and unity, but in truth it is a front for the cult of an abberant deity. Has a longstanding feud against the University, which it recognizes as a rival cult. Employs a hive-mind much akin to the Borg, if the Borg Queen were Dolores Umbridge.
The University - Supposedly a center of learning and magical study, the University is, literally, little more than an illusion created to feed the ressurection of an aberrant called the Invisible Oracle. Generally accepted, there are rumors about missing children and wizards that spring up from time to time in the general population...
The Clockwork Court - A mysterious mechanical city in the distant mountains of the kingdom, most think it to be some grand toy, the life's work of a supreme artificer. In truth, it is a third cult in service to the Silver Queen. Only the Court recognizes both the University and Church as rivals, and neither know the true purpose of the Court. The Clockwork Courtiers are actually humans who've placed their minds in metal bodies.
The City-States - Largely uninterested in the power struggles of the Church and University, the City-States want nothing more than to maintain their own independance. Only Relia remains loyal to the thought of a united kingdom, and it is Relia which backs the Players.
Grim Jack - The last living blood noble after the destruction of the palace, not counting the queen. A petty lord, he is loathed by the City-States because he represents the last vestige of their unification. In truth, Jack is the avatar of a fourth Aberrant, the kindly incarnation of death whose body--the Palace itself--was destroyed. Without his physical form, the souls of the dead linger and can be used to feed the ressurection of the other Aberrant gods. His only desire is to restore himself and stop all three of his siblings.


Woo...so that was more involved than I thought. There's the basic gist: the players get the backing of the City-State Relia (whose governor is arguably one of the strongest NPCs in the setting), the attention and aid of Grim Jack...beyond that? The players could turn the former Queen to her senses. There's a powerful lady in the Clockwork Court waiting to help them. The Church enslaved a gold dragon who'd love to wreck some havok on them if set free...

CasESenSITItiVE
2007-08-11, 01:32 PM
if you don't want to add forces to the sides of the pcs, it sounds like the best idea would be to have these cults oppose each other. why would the pcs need good factions to slow down the evil factions when the evil factions are slowing down the evil factions?

Mike_Lemmer
2007-08-11, 02:56 PM
if you don't want to add forces to the sides of the pcs, it sounds like the best idea would be to have these cults oppose each other. why would the pcs need good factions to slow down the evil factions when the evil factions are slowing down the evil factions?

The biggest problem is if the PCs want to ally with a faction, they'd have to pick one of the evil ones. Don't underestimate the PCs' need for allies of some kind.

GryffonDurime
2007-08-11, 03:01 PM
The biggest problem is if the PCs want to ally with a faction, they'd have to pick one of the evil ones. Don't underestimate the PCs' need for allies of some kind.

Well, they can most likely rally any of the City-States, with proper cajoling. The University and the Church are fairly set-in as evil powers, but the Queen can be convinced to aid them (indeed, she's probably their greatest potential ally), and they've got the Grim Reaper in their court too. And the Clockwork Court's just waiting for them to introduce chaos into an ordered system.

I think they'll be able to manage...though maybe I should give them Gestalt status. They might need a leg up.

Diggorian
2007-08-12, 01:41 PM
OK you've got a nice fertile ground for plot with these factions. The beauty of nodal campaigns is that now the work of creativity is mainly done with a detailed intricate and interesting setting.

I dont know that you need to gestault them. Their most obvious foes, Church and University, have secret faces so wont be able to strike too overtly: evil aint popular. Striking one will buy them credit with the other. Fitting both directly in close succession would be foolish, that's what allies are for :smallwink:

The City-states seem the big threat here both resource wise with overt military and morally since Unity over Freedom is a tough argument to sell. Without caution, good intentioned Relia may face a justified confederacy of opposition, subtlely back by the true evil around.

Dementrius
2007-08-13, 12:40 AM
this is my first attempt at producing something nodebased so, before I even tackle problems with my specific setting, does anyone have any general advice for things that worked well in this style of DMing?

While having multiple enemies doing things in the background is cool from DM's point of view, a lot of players will get lost as soon as the railroad tracks disappear and there are no immediate plot hooks in sight.

This is where I instigated the "lucky dip" research device.

Write out a series of short snippets that when pieced together give the PCs enough information to go to a site or person (generally Who, What, Why and Where). I had over thirty of these before I started my last campaign.

Separate these snippets by the type of Knowledge check (or Gather Information) that is required. Put each of the same type into an envelope and assign a check DC (I went with DC 25). If a character dedicates in game time (I went with 1 day) to research or gathering information they get to roll against that DC to see if they get a random draw (lucky dip) from the envelope.

Ideally an adventure hook will require draws from multiple types to get all of the required information (to make multiple party members feel needed).

From time to time the PCs will get lost in the plot and won't know which way to go. This mechanism lets them spend some time to get back on track without too much direct railroading from the DM. They can pick and choose from the hooks dangled and the whole information cycle feels more organic.

As the campaign progresses more hooks can be added (and the DCs increased) to show the advances that the various factions have made.

Some sample checks for the Silver Queen:


Gather Information

A drunken sailor who no-one knows what to do with:

"Arrrgh, these early mornin's are killin' me. Saw a funny thing da other day on a ship to XXXX. Dese passengers all wrapped up like fish'n'chips dey was. But I saw one of dem bent over der railin' and his arms - dey were all made of Silver! Me parrot nerly fell of me shoulder onto me peg-leg it did!"

----------------------------
Knowledge (Religion)

From an ancient manuscript wedged between "Ducks - they are our overlords!" and "Huey's Cooking Adventurers" (a trollish children's book).

"The Silver Queen is the one true Goddess, a radiant perfection in a world of dull error. We make ourselves like her mysteriousness .... (details of the worship of the Silver Queen)"

----------------------------
Knowledge (Architechure and Engineering)

From the works of Hurbid the Mysterious (Date published)

"The Clockwork Court - A mysterious mechanical city in the distant mountains of the kingdom, most think it to be some grand toy, the life's work of a supreme artificer. The main entranceway of this creation is, however, not the true way inside. The core of the Court can be accessed only through the Tunnels of Timidness."

----------------------------
Knowledge (Geography)

Written on the corner of a long-forgotten map of XXXX

"The Tunnels of Timidness and located not far from the the city of XXXX, barely three miles to the north along the Windy Road. But despite the name their contents are not for the faint-hearted!"