Charisma Melee Fighting?

[Azreal]

How do you guys visualize a Hexblade using their Cha for their melee attacks? I'm not certain how to fluff it and I'm looking for suggestions.

[Greylind]

How do you guys visualize a Hexblade using their Cha for their melee attacks? I'm not certain how to fluff it and I'm looking for suggestions.

Sheer self-confidence in motion, with some flourish but not a lot of fancy maneuvering. Somewhere between a Jedi and Zatoichi.

[Grod_The_Giant]

When they draw their weapon, it's wrapped in shrouds of darkness, and every swing leaves streamers of shadow in its wake.

Their weapon glitters oddly in the light, the reflections all subtly wrong. When they swing, ghostly images of other swords flicker in and out of existence.

Their mace burns with violent flames. Thunder crashes and booms when they swing, the impact all out of proportion to the speed of the swing.

...you know. Magic it up.

[Grim Portent]

The sword twists and weaves through combat seemingly indepedent of the wielder, the mace crashes with the force of thunder and the axe screams as it carves the air seeking flesh to bite. The bearer is either terrified at the unwholesome power they carry or revels in the savage butchery the weapon exerts through them, and it is through them for it is the weapon that is wielding the man not the man that is wielding the weapon.

[AvatarVecna]

Go full-on Dashing Swordsman.

"Do you get my point?!"

"You sure you're fighting sober? 'Cause you look pretty hammered to me!"

"Fangs for the memories!"

"All's well that lillend's well!"

"This fight has been dragon on enough!"

"This is my sword, 'Beauty'~" *stabs Beholder*

[Zman]

You swing your sword not through strength of arm, deftness of aim, or hard won technique, but through the sheer unstoppable power of your confidence.

[Mortis_Elrod]

You swing your sword not through strength of arm, deftness of aim, or hard won technique, but through the sheer unstoppable power of your confidence.

Following this you don't just think you can hit someone. You know you can. So you do it. And they can see the truth when they look at you, that it's nothing more than fact.

They can't argue with that amount of confidence. They walk into your blade.

[GlenSmash!]

In the case of the Hexblade it's not the Warlock who knows how to fight. It's the Sword. Charisma here is representing the Warlock's ability to get the Sword to fight well for him, instead of letting him die and finding a new Chump to Pact with.

[Lysiander]

Guybrush Treepwood basically.

[SCOTTEPIPPEN]

"Sir, would you mind stepping into my gorgeous glittery sword? You look beautiful today."

[Kane0]

The name Thirsting Blade is more literal than you may think. The weapon is ensorcelled to propel itself towards what you swing at, purposefully driving itself home no matter how much effort you put into the blow. All you need to do is direct it using force of will and a little bit of momentum to get it started.

[smcmike]

My first thought was the confidence angle, which I like. I particularly like the thought of enemies being overcome with the feeling that their whole life has led them to be extras in the action movie that the hero is starring in. When the blade finally falls, they accept it, as their fate.

A less fanciful person might note that charisma has always been a part of combat and other direct confrontation. Fighters want to get in the heads of their opponents for a reason. When a basketball player breaks down the guy guarding him, it takes dexterity and strength, obviously, but also wisdom to read the defense and charisma to fool it.

[Saiga]

In the case of the Hexblade it's not the Warlock who knows how to fight. It's the Sword. Charisma here is representing the Warlock's ability to get the Sword to fight well for him, instead of letting him die and finding a new Chump to Pact with.

I agree with this view. Most of the other suggestions would fit Bards, or a generic "Cha as melee stat" ability, but not the specific example of Hex Warrior.

For Hex Warrior, I think the most fitting interpretations would be:

*It's the blade with the power. Charisma represents your ability to either convince your blade to use its power, or exert your will over the blade and draw its power out.

*Charisma represents your force of will, and increases the strength of your magic. By channelling your magical power into the blade you increase its accuracy and cutting power.

[Greylind]

I agree with this view. Most of the other suggestions would fit Bards, or a generic "Cha as melee stat" ability, but not the specific example of Hex Warrior.

For Hex Warrior, I think the most fitting interpretations would be:

*It's the blade with the power. Charisma represents your ability to either convince your blade to use its power, or exert your will over the blade and draw its power out.

*Charisma represents your force of will, and increases the strength of your magic. By channelling your magical power into the blade you increase its accuracy and cutting power.

Hexblades don't start with a sentient weapon, and might never actually find the one they draw power from.

[GlenSmash!]

Hexblades don't start with a sentient weapon, and might never actually find the one they draw power from.

I think they do. It's right in the text: "You have made your pact with a powerful, sentient magic weapon carved from the stuff of the Shadowfell..."

It might not be a Sentient weapon from the DMG, but from the get go it is a sentient weapon, at least it is as it stands currently. If it ever gets published it could be different.

[RSP]

Hexblades don't start with a sentient weapon, and might never actually find the one they draw power from.

They start with owning the weapon, but the pact is made. Some might say it's the weapon that owns them...

[Greylind]

They start with owning the weapon, but the pact is made. Some might say it's the weapon that owns them...

Given that the example is Blackrazor, no, they do not start with it anymore than a Pact of the Fiend Warlock has a Balor hanging out with them. The connection is mystical and in spirit at a distance, just like every other pact.

[90sMusic]

Haven't dealt with hexblade yet...

But I have a homebrew succubus that adds charisma to AC, attack, and damage rolls. It fluffs out that she has an aura about her that causes subtle amounts of attraction or fear, and while it isn't going to stop an enemy from attacking you or defending against you, it does provide a small amount of distraction making it easier to land attacks or dodge out of the way of theirs.

I imagine you could do something along those lines for a hexblade. Some guy with a flaming or shadowy or whatevery weapon coming at you is going to be more than a little distracting relative to everything else going on. Like Thoros of Myr and his flaming sword.

Imagine being afraid of fire and being in a swordfight with someone with a flaming blade. You can apply that same logic to any kind of pact weapon by saying it causes a degree of fear in it's enemies. It may not even be conscious or something they really think about or are even aware of, but it still distracts them enough to make hitting them a bit easier.

[Mikal]

"My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die." *Does awesome blade work while being physically destroyed through sheer force of will/personality when fighting Rugen*

[Joe the Rat]

Given that the example is Blackrazor, no, they do not start with it anymore than a Pact of the Fiend Warlock has a Balor hanging out with them. The connection is mystical and in spirit at a distance, just like every other pact.

True, one must fight their way to the pulsing cavern and best its eldritch- er, sorry... mound that spews into the air, and beat its... You know, I wish just once they could be a little less locked into their own lore when cooking things up.

For the record, if I get someone wanting to play a Hexblade, I will recommend Bother Eye or an orbital weapons platform as a Patron. Or cut the "weapon" part and make it an entity of shadow and entropy (more Hex, less Blade).


But to the question:
Force of Will - Think Jedi, or Zen masters with more panache.
I kill with my heart - training that sets into the soul, and lets you be a little supernatural.
These work for anyone, including shillelagh-users.
All that bad luck just pours out of you - fortune favors the bold, and apparently you have her on speed dial. You're capable, but things just work ever so slightly more in your favor. This is strictly a hexblade version.

[Grim Portent]

Given that the example is Blackrazor, no, they do not start with it anymore than a Pact of the Fiend Warlock has a Balor hanging out with them. The connection is mystical and in spirit at a distance, just like every other pact.

My assumption is that the Hexblade channels a portion of their patron's power into the weapon they wield, allowing the blade to become a pale echo of the real thing, and by extension using charisma to hit and damage.

[Thrudd]

The only possible explanation is that it is magic. The person isn't actually "fighting" so much as using magic to power their weapons and seek their targets. Perhaps a little like jedi, as was said - letting the force guide their lightsaber. A power compels and directs your body, maybe like you are possessed, and the more you are able to give up control to the power the more of it can flow through you and the more effective you will be. The same would need to be said for any spell or ability which appears to be some sort of melee or physical attack but uses an ability other than strength or dexterity.

[Matrix_Walker]

They would seem kind of lucky. The technique might be lacking, but the results would speak for themselves as somewhat less powerful blows would somehow find the chinks in armor...

[BurgerBeast]

Does it need to be fluffed differently? Can't it just look like a typical swordsman?

I'm not sure that someone who wields his sword with intelligence necessarily looks a lot different than someone who wields his sword with dexterity, or with wisdom, for example. I would extend this to charisma, as well.

This probably applies within a single ability as well. I'm not sure that someone with less strength necessarily looks different than someone with more strength when swinging an axe (or whatever).

[RSP]

Given that the example is Blackrazor, no, they do not start with it anymore than a Pact of the Fiend Warlock has a Balor hanging out with them. The connection is mystical and in spirit at a distance, just like every other pact.

Sorry, didn't properly review that. They don't necessarily start with the weapon, but the pact is made. You could fluff it as you have the actual sword, but it is equal to a PHB sword and it doesn't gain power until you get the +1, and likewise gains power as you and the bond do, that is, as you gain Warlock levels (assuming they reinstate the +2 and +3 invocations).

[Greylind]

Sorry, didn't properly review that. They don't necessarily start with the weapon, but the pact is made. You could fluff it as you have the actual sword, but it is equal to a PHB sword and it doesn't gain power until you get the +1, and likewise gains power as you and the bond do, that is, as you gain Warlock levels (assuming they reinstate the +2 and +3 invocations).

I think this is reading too much into fluff, in no way the class features reflect this. Pact of the Blade can certainly make a copy of the pact weapon, but it won't have any abilities at all other than what the pact feature and appropriate invocations give, and the subclass description doesn't pigeonhole character choices. You can have a pact with Blackrazor and take Tome or Chain instead of Blade, and it is still power drawn from the legendary sword. But the Charisma fighting ability would not function for the warlock if they do find and wield the real Blackrazor, it's a greatsword.

[RSP]

I think this is reading too much into fluff, in no way the class features reflect this. Pact of the Blade can certainly make a copy of the pact weapon, but it won't have any abilities at all other than what the pact feature and appropriate invocations give, and the subclass description doesn't pigeonhole character choices. You can have a pact with Blackrazor and take Tome or Chain instead of Blade, and it is still power drawn from the legendary sword. But the Charisma fighting ability would not function for the warlock if they do find and wield the real Blackrazor, it's a greatsword.

Right, you get what the RAW says you get, but that doesn't stop you and your DM from working within those mechanics. There's nothing against RAW in doing what my post stated.

[Azreal]

Does it need to be fluffed differently? Can't it just look like a typical swordsman?

I'm not sure that someone who wields his sword with intelligence necessarily looks a lot different than someone who wields his sword with dexterity, or with wisdom, for example. I would extend this to charisma, as well.

This probably applies within a single ability as well. I'm not sure that someone with less strength necessarily looks different than someone with more strength when swinging an axe (or whatever).

I think visually there's a definite difference between fighting with different stats.

Str would be swings more focused on the power behind them then a technique.

Dex are like fencers and people who dance around to strike from several different angles to knock people off balance to hit them.

Int fighting to me is precise strikes much like Dex fighters but more controlled and less flighty.

[smcmike]

I think visually there's a definite difference between fighting with different stats.

Str would be swings more focused on the power behind them then a technique.

Dex are like fencers and people who dance around to strike from several different angles to knock people off balance to hit them.

Int fighting to me is precise strikes much like Dex fighters but more controlled and less flighty.

Yeah. It's all fluff, anyways, so the game will work just fine however you describe it, but strength-based attacks and dexterity-based attacks sound like they look different to me.

For example, I play a barbarian/rogue who uses a rapier but attacks with strength. When I describe his attacks, they are NOT elegant swordplay. He just charges at people and stabs them as hard as he can. I would fluff it quite differently if I were playing a dexterity fighter/rogue.

A place where this fluff might translate into meaningful information is DM description of enemy attacks. I think it's pretty reasonable for a player to figure out what attack stat is being used by observing an enemy in combat, and this information may be useful.

[BurgerBeast]

You'll notice the examples I have were not Strength based, and that was for a reason. The strength versus dexterity division is pretty obvious. However, swordplay (weaponplay?) is an athletic/graceful/efficient endeavour, so ignoring strength, you end up with more-or-less any other stat looking the same. Charismatic Movement is graceful because it is energy efficient, which points to Wisdom, Intelligence, and Dexterity.

As far as strength based attacks being recognizably different from dexterity based attacks: while this is obviously true, it is not usually necessary to see the attacks to make the determination: you can often tell by just looking at the person. Legolas looks like a dex fighter. Hamish (from Braveheart) looks like a Str fighter. But what sets Aragon Aragorn apart from Boromir? I'd say Aragon Aragorn is slightly more dex based and Boromir is slightly more str based.

At the end of the day, in my opinion, there are only two sorts of fighters: strength (includes con) - fighters who just muscle through it and wail on people - and dexterity (includes int, wis, cha) - fighters who are intelligent, cunning, and graceful.

You can get into the nitty gritty and make subtle determinations between them, but I wouldn't say they are obvious enough to call it from the fighting alone. There's too much overlap.

Take a look at some Michael Jordan highlight reel footage. What you'll see is a clear demonstration of the uppermost limits of human dexterity. But, you'll also notice that he needs to be incredibly intelligent and wise in order to do what he does, and the combination of these four things results in what is ultimately recognized as very charismatic.

[Thrudd]

In the context of the abstract categories that are the D&D abilities, there is no such thing as fighting with intelligence or wisdom or charisma. Strength is the ability which describes fighting ability, among other things like carrying capacity. There shouldn't be such a thing as melee fighting with the dexterity score, either, but at least it is limited to specific weapons. Knowing how to fight, including any sort of clever tricks or finesse or strategies or intuition that assist a person in fighting, are covered under the strength ability score (and the proficiency bonus from experience), since those are things that all people that know how to fight use to be able to fight well, not just special people with special training. Your ability scores say nothing about your style of fighting or the sort of techniques you might use - that is all roleplaying.

So any character that gets to add another ability score besides strength to their fighting score is getting some sort of supernatural/magical assistance, otherwise those ability scores would be contributing to all characters' fighting ability, not just special ones in special circumstances. If the intelligence score (or any other score) helps people be better fighters in a natural sense, like it means you "fight smarter" or something, then it would help everyone to fight and not just a wizard or a special sub class. Since that is not the case, then whatever the intelligence(wisdom, charisma) score represents clearly does not cover the thing that helps people "fight smart". Because every fighter needs to fight smart, have good instincts and confidence, or else they would not be a good fighter.

[Dr.Samurai]

The feature is a part of the pact, just as much as their magic and other features. So their ability to fight is based on their charisma in so much as their charisma determines the strength of their pact.

In other words, they fight like everyone else, but the only reason they're able to fight like any other warrior is because of the pact they've made and their force of personality.

No need to describe much differently than swinging the weapon and striking like most normal warriors. The pact is giving you the skill.

[smcmike]

There shouldn't be such a thing as melee fighting with the dexterity score, either,

Lol. Why not? Also, what does "should" have to do with anything?



Knowing how to fight, including any sort of clever tricks or finesse or strategies or intuition that assist a person in fighting, are covered under the strength ability score (and the proficiency bonus from experience), since those are things that all people that know how to fight use to be able to fight well, not just special people with special training.

I would say that knowing how to fight is covered by weapon proficiencies, abilities, and feats.



Your ability scores say nothing about your style of fighting or the sort of techniques you might use - that is all roleplaying.

Is there something wrong with drawing from your ability scores in order to roleplay?


So any character that gets to add another ability score besides strength to their fighting score is getting some sort of supernatural/magical assistance, otherwise those ability scores would be contributing to all characters' fighting ability, not just special ones in special circumstances. If the intelligence score (or any other score) helps people be better fighters in a natural sense, like it means you "fight smarter" or something, then it would help everyone to fight and not just a wizard or a special sub class. Since that is not the case, then whatever the intelligence(wisdom, charisma) score represents clearly does not cover the thing that helps people "fight smart". Because every fighter needs to fight smart, have good instincts and confidence, or else they would not be a good fighter.

I get what you are saying here, though the line between "magical/supernatural" and not seems to have been left intentionally fuzzy. Is a monk's unarmed defense "supernatural?" Is a barbarian's? Is a fighter's healing surge?

Monk unarmed defense actually seems pretty easy to describe: a monk moves as if he knows where the blow will land before he should be able to. Whether this is "supernatural" or just a matter of training is irrelevant.

[Vogie]

There shouldn't be such a thing as melee fighting with the dexterity score, either

Sure, man. Ignore the whole "Hit hard vs Hit fast" dichotomy and just start wielding a rapier like a warhammer. I'm sure it'll work out great.


As one of the definitions of charisma is "a divinely conferred power or talent", then I would think that a charismatic fighter would be closer to that of a Jedi swinging a lightsaber, or one of the knights of the cross from the Dresden Files- They're not striking hard, nor particularly fast, but striking to where it needs to be struck, a preternatural, with an almost reality-warping ability to do so.

I mean, a pact of the blade warlock also makes their weapons appear from nowhere, take whatever form they wish, and are immediately proficient with it, so the "style" would change with the summoned weapon.

[Smitty Wesson]

The whole point of the Hexblade - as I think the use of Blackrazor as the example weapon makes clear - is to provide the "Be Elric of Melnibone" option to 5e. So, let's look at how it works for Elric.

Elric is pitifully weak and chronically ill. He's barely fit enough to be wearing armor and swinging a sword around. His strength and combat prowess is all magically derived - and the magic itself is gained from various pacts with different spirits, demons, and yes, his sentient soul-eating black blade Stormbringer (which Blackrazor is a blatant ripoff of).

So, what we're looking at in the Hexblade is someone whose strength and combat prowess come from what they have bargained for. The Hexblade Warlock is getting their ability to fight by their ability to convince their patron that this fight is worth the patron's while - just as Elric always calls out to his demonic patron Arioch, offering "blood and souls!" in exchange for the strength to do battle.

Basically, you fight/damage with Charisma by being a compelling enough person that the patron grants this power.

(ALSO, just a side rant: it really irritates me that the Charisma-to-attack feature doesn't work with two handed weapons, when Blackrazor is a two handed weapon, meaning that the main distinctive feature of this subclass doesn't work with the exact weapon it says it's meant to work with. I know it's for balance and extremely easy to homebrew, but that just bothers me.)

[Thrudd]

Sure, man. Ignore the whole "Hit hard vs Hit fast" dichotomy and just start wielding a rapier like a warhammer. I'm sure it'll work out great.

I'm disputing that there is such a dichotomy in real life, and therefore there should be no such dichotomy in the game. Having proficiency with a rapier means you know how to use the weapon properly, nobody is trying to use it like a hammer by definition. There aren't that many different ways to use any given weapon - you either know how to use it properly and effectively or you don't. All of them require a minimum amount of finesse and strength and speed and good tactics to be effective. Someone who wields any weapon as though they were trying to split a log or hammer a spike (brute strength only) would not be good and would get easily defeated by anyone who knew what they were doing.

D&D ability scores are at a level of abstraction where it does not make sense to finely distinguish between the various real-life attributes that go into becoming proficient in fighting - it makes sense that the score which rules the fighter class must contain all those attributes which are required for being good at fighting. The designers made a mistake in not recognizing this, imo.

[smcmike]

I'm disputing that there is such a dichotomy in real life, and therefore there should be no such dichotomy in the game. Having proficiency with a rapier means you know how to use the weapon properly, nobody is trying to use it like a hammer by definition. There aren't that many different ways to use any given weapon - you either know how to use it properly and effectively or you don't. All of them require a minimum amount of finesse and strength and speed and good tactics to be effective. Someone who wields any weapon as though they were trying to split a log or hammer a spike (brute strength only) would not be good and would get easily defeated by anyone who knew what they were doing.

D&D ability scores are at a level of abstraction where it does not make sense to finely distinguish between the various real-life attributes that go into becoming proficient in fighting - it makes sense that the score which rules the fighter class must contain all those attributes which are required for being good at fighting. The designers made a mistake in not recognizing this, imo.

This is quite the take. You know that the fighter class is ruled by two scores, right?

[Thrudd]

This is quite the take. You know that the fighter class is ruled by two scores, right?

The second score is an inactive one, ruling toughness, hardiness and endurance. It gives you more HP (which fighters need) and better saving throws (one of the statistically more important ones). Fighting is not an agglomerate of more than one ability's bonuses in the game, only strength supplies the bonus by default. Any other ability score being applied to an attack suggests that whatever the person is doing, it isn't coming from their ability to physically fight.

Monks have special training driven by a mystical energy force (ki). It is the supernatural power of their ki mastery that lets wisdom get added into the equation as they sense the opponent's moves through movements in the force before it actually happens (or something like that), and use it to add power to their attacks, like Iron Fist.

Charisma melee fighting, then, is definitely using some form of magical assistance to be better at fighting. Seeing it as a representation of Elric is probably right on the money. It isn't being really confident or intimidating people with the force of your personality so they let their guard down more.

[Cyan Wisp]

Report from a survivor:

"...I don't even know exactly what happened. She walked in like she owned the place. And she was... utterly distracting, I couldn't keep my eyes off her. We got the order to attack, but it seemed distant and unimportant. My training took over and we launched en masse at her. I don't recall even seeing her sword, but I definitely remember her eyes. Hypnotic, deep, endless. I got lost in those eyes and everything else was just an inconsequential blur. She must have struck me down, I guess. I'm a bit sore, fair to say. But...Where is she now? I have to see her..."


So less charisma-powered weapon than awe-struck enemies? Just a thought.

[Cybren]

Y'all are over thinking it. You're using magic to fight. You're using your magic stat, which is charisma, to be better at fighting. It's the same rationale for letting you aim chromatic orbs with your spellcasting stat, even though in conceptual terms it makes more sense as dexterity

[ghost_warlock]

I'm running three different hexblades, currently:

Abdiel (scourge aasimar paladin 5/warlock 4) grew up in a world overrun with armies of the dead. Trained to become a paladin of the crown like his parents and siblings, he has turned his back on his family's legacy and pledged himself to the oath of vengeance, instead. Since childhood, he's heard the whispers of Simikiel, the angel of retribution, and he is not content to spend his life guarding walls in an increasing futile attempt to protect a sliver of civilization. With Simikiel guiding his strikes, he has committed himself to fighting back the hordes and carving out territory for civilization to expand.

Cinderwrath (winged tiefling sorcerer 5/warlock 5) spent her childhood being brutally abused by her father, a cambion. In her teens, after a particularly devastating violation, she decided she didn't want to be a girl any more - she wanted to be a dragon, a mighty red dragon. Dyrus, son of Cyric and the god of recklessness and sabotage, heard her whimpers and took pity upon her, granting her the ability to change her appearance at will, even if only as an illusion. After escaping her father and running away from home, she masquerades as a young red dragon, traveling with other adventurers in order to acquire wealth for her hoard. Using her illusions, her warhammer appears as a simple dagger, making it difficult for foes to avoid her strikes.

Chloe d'Aubigny (tiefling paladin 2/bard 2/warlock 4) was inspired by Julie d'Aubigny (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie_d%27Aubigny) and Chloe from Don't Trust the B in Apartment 23. Raised the daughter of a musketeer, as Julie was, Chloe's life mirrored Julie's until the night she was apprehended by the church for her crimes and was sentenced to be burned at the stake. As the fires were lit, she cried out to whichever powers would hear her, pleading for her life. Amused by her earlier antics, the Traveler answered her prayers by transforming her into a tiefling and granting her the abilities of a hexblade to supplement her earlier training as a duelist and singer. A fine swordswoman before the pact, she uses her charm and misdirection to even greater effect now as she constantly baits her foes off-balance with feints and batted eyelashes.

[smcmike]

The second score is an inactive one, ruling toughness, hardiness and endurance. It gives you more HP (which fighters need) and better saving throws (one of the statistically more important ones). Fighting is not an agglomerate of more than one ability's bonuses in the game, only strength supplies the bonus by default. Any other ability score being applied to an attack suggests that whatever the person is doing, it isn't coming from their ability to physically fight.


I meant dexterity. A fighter's primary stat is strength OR dexterity. You are making claims that have no support.

[Thrudd]

I meant dexterity. A fighter's primary stat is strength OR dexterity. You are making claims that have no support.

Fighters get advantage on strength and constitution saving throws, that's what I was thinking of. Having good dexterity certainly doesn't hurt, but choosing that over strength means the fighter is choosing to focus on archery or the small number of "finesse" weapons (which is a silly concept, because what makes someone a good archer or good at throwing things has no direct bearing on what makes someone a skilled fighter, not even with small pointy weapons). I'm complaining about the fact that the designers made a silly decision in this regard and blurred the lines between what those ability scores stand for.

Besides Dexterity, which obviously needs to be conceded as an ability that also sometimes describes someone's ability to fight with a small subset of weapons per the rules (as silly as that rule is), the other abilities absolutely should not be seen as something that can naturally make someone better at fighting (as opposed to magically/supernaturally), lest the entire system break down into absurdity.
So I'm proposing that suggesting charisma represents someone's ability to distract combatants with their good looks or making witty comments, or intelligence might give a bonus because the fighter uses clever tactics or anything along those lines with any other ability, are a slippery slope that needs to be avoided. Each ability score should clearly rule specific things with no overlap, so that the score assigning decision during character creation actually has meaning in addition to having clear game application.

[smcmike]

Fighters get advantage on strength and constitution saving throws, that's what I was thinking of.

This is incorrect. They get proficiency in those saving throws, not advantage. What I was think of was the column on page 45 of the PHB, which states that a Fighter's Primary Ability is Strength or Dexterity.



Having good dexterity certainly doesn't hurt, but choosing that over strength means the fighter is choosing to focus on archery or the small number of "finesse" weapons (which is a silly concept, because what makes someone a good archer or good at throwing things has no direct bearing on what makes someone a skilled fighter, not even with small pointy weapons).

Does it make any less sense than the same ability governing deadlift and high jump? Olympic fencers are more similar in build to Olympic archers than Olympic weight lifters are to Olympic jumpers.