Just for fun let's build a Warcraft style Demon Hunter

[Ravinsild]

I often like to challenge myself with converting an existing thing, such as a character, or class, from another game into D&D just to see how well the official mechanics of the game can pull it off.

I was recently thinking about Illidan himself and his incarnations in Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft and Heroes of the Storm. I figured I'd sort out what the key points of Illidan/Demon Hunters are and came up with the following list:

- Spectral Sight (basically Dare Devil's powers. He can't "see" but for all intents and purposes he has super sight with magic eyes that let him see demons especially well)
- Fire Aura (DH in WoW, as well as certain talents in HotS and a main basic ability in WC3, a DoT dealing aura for fire damage)
- Twin Blades (Dual Wielding, always and forever.)
- Stickiness (Mostly in HotS, but also DH in WoW can just stick to a target with hyper mobility)
- Evasion (In Heroes and in WC3 especially, but also DH in WoW have a way to boost defense and dodge attacks for a short period of time)
- Turning Into A Demon (I don't think anything in D&D can do this)
- Flying (In WC3 the demon form had wings, in WoW he could fly in the trailer and in his boss fight, and in HotS he can 'fly' as a demon, and DH in WoW can glide for a long time)

I think those highlight the main points of a demon hunter so I set my mind to seeing how I could build one in D&D. I came up with something like 6 Hexblade Warlock Pact of the Blade and 14 Monster Slayer Revised Ranger.

Invocations like "Relentless Hex" to teleport to your cursed target as a bonus action for "stickiness" and Devil's Sight which gives you magical sight to see very well in addition to the magical "war glaives" (AKA like...short swords or long swords or w/e) dual-wielding.

Two-Weapon Fighting talent and of course the Greater Favored Enemy of Fiends. The extra spells such as Protection from Good and Evil are thematic toward thwarting demons, plus spells like Misty Step from the Warlock enhances the "hyper mobility" fantasy of the Demon Hunter.

Spectral Eye from the Monster Slayer class feature adds the specialization in hunting and killing demons.

Relentless Slayer counters any attempt of the being to escape on success which feels similar to Illidan's "The Hunt" spell in Heroes of the Storm in the sense that you can see and somewhat "get to" the being from far away with the right invocations or spells, and they can't escape, making it feel like you're omnipresent to such prey. Again a point for "Stickiness"

I figure Feral Tiefling and focusing on Dex and Cha and picking "support" type spells from the Ranger list such as Jump and Longstrider, etc would make the most sense. I also replaced the Infernal Heritage with "Wings" and thus you're essentially always in "Demon Form" as a Tiefling with no real "transformation".

I think some of the features enhance the fantasy from both Warlock (Hexblade) and Ranger (Monster Slayer especially, which I believe replaced earlier iterations?) to make this a very Illidan/Demon Hunter type character that can easily favor and focus on killing evil and especially demons/devils.

I'm not sure if the pairings are right. I think going to 10 or more in hexblade gives the "evasion" feeling that Demon Hunters have but there could be other ways to access it.

So far I've managed through race to snag Flight and "Demon Form" in a sense, Twin Blades (Dual-Wielding) from the pact and just weapon choices, Spectral Sight from class features, and stickiness through features and spells.

I lack the fire damage aura and evasion qualities however.

How would you build a demon hunter?

[Ravinsild]

Other ideas were Ranger + Druid of the Moon using Shapeshift when doing "metamorphosis" and just refluffing which form as "A demon" but it seems overly clunky.

Also Ranger + Sorcerer - most spells taken would be anti-magic or mobility spells with investiture of flame a way to get "immolation aura" plus true sight is effectively Demon Hunter Spectral Sight.

Therefore as a winged feral tiefling sorcerer/ranger you get flying, evasion (blur spell at least), immolation aura (investiture of flame), stickiness (Booming Blade, Hold Person, Entangling Strike, Misty Step to gap close, etc.), Spectral Sight (True Sight), and twin blades by dual-wielding with Two Weapon Fighting style. Only thing lacking is demonic transformation but you're already a demon as a tiefling anyway :P

[Douche]

Isn't there some kind of Dwarven Avatar form (like the Mountain King from WC3)? I can't think of which class or race has it now, but I seem to recall there being some kind of super saiyan-esque spell.

Last ditch effort - I'd say you can use Enlarge/Reduce to make yourself bigger & flavor it as making you take on a demonic visage or whatever

[Ravinsild]

Isn't there some kind of Dwarven Avatar form (like the Mountain King from WC3)? I can't think of which class or race has it now, but I seem to recall there being some kind of super saiyan-esque spell.

Last ditch effort - I'd say you can use Enlarge/Reduce to make yourself bigger & flavor it as making you take on a demonic visage or whatever

Which is another point for Ranger/Sorcerer because I don't believe Warlocks have access to that spell. However Warlock does have many class features, especially Hexblade, which support the character idea.

I would mostly be using Ranger spells like "Locate X" and "Find X" etc, utility spells essentially, so the casting stat is unimportant.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Well I certainly like ideas here I think to get fire aura you have a lot of different options, including spells, Mystic, and I think there's a class feature for Phoenix sorcerer, and if we looked we could find more. My favorite however is the Desert Storm Herald Barbarian.

Barbarian is pretty good for transformation as well, and I think ranger levels are must have. So thinking on this, DH are very hateful towards demons, and at least in WoW when you first learn to transform into a DH , the unprepared went into a rage and went full demon, (never go full demon). I think favored enemy fiends is a good way to represent the normal hate and knowledge, but if you as RAGE you get transformation, fire aura, extra defenses all in one (like popping all your cool downs).

Storm Herald (Desert) 14/ Ranger 6 would be pretty strong. Monster slayer fits thematically and mechanically. Spectral sight can be chalked up to Slayers Eye. And Teifling Darkvisiom. add winged and that's a pretty beefy DH. I think this would be closer to Vengence

[Ravinsild]

Well I certainly like ideas here I think to get fire aura you have a lot of different options, including spells, Mystic, and I think there's a class feature for Phoenix sorcerer, and if we looked we could find more. My favorite however is the Desert Storm Herald Barbarian.

Barbarian is pretty good for transformation as well, and I think ranger levels are must have. So thinking on this, DH are very hateful towards demons, and at least in WoW when you first learn to transform into a DH , the unprepared went into a rage and went full demon, (never go full demon). I think favored enemy fiends is a good way to represent the normal hate and knowledge, but if you as RAGE you get transformation, fire aura, extra defenses all in one (like popping all your cool downs).

Storm Herald (Desert) 14/ Ranger 6 would be pretty strong. Monster slayer fits thematically and mechanically. Spectral sight can be chalked up to Slayers Eye. And Teifling Darkvisiom. add winged and that's a pretty beefy DH. I think this would be closer to Vengence

The issue with Barbarian is that you can't dual-wield with it, or at least the Rage features don't work with dual-wielding do they? I remember looking into and it felt like barbarians were locked into two-handed weapons.

Phoenix Sorcerer is a good call. Mostly I'm focusing on being the "Support Spell" and "Anti-Mage" type gish, as opposed to actual offensive casting, as the Warcraft 3 Hero Unit was mostly melee with Evasion, Immolation Aura and Mana Burn as abilities, plus demon form.

Illidan in Heroes of the Storm has Dive, a gap closer, sweeping strike, which is another gap closer/opener with attached immolation aura, and again evasion, with either "The Hunt" using his "Spectral Sight" to see enemies and teleport to them (Stunning them but D&D doesn't have stuns so meh) and of course Metamorphosis.

In WoW I don't know what he did, all I've seen is him summon two fire elementals from his glaives but I didn't raid in BC I was still leveling and by the time I got to solo him he died so fast nothing could be gleaned from his abilities.

In addition in WoW they're 90% melee with a few "spell" effect like things, mostly involving green fire. So I like the Barbarian idea, and being Martially focused with a splash of fire, and anti-magic abilities, but mostly just tracking and locating demons/fiends.

Edit: Actually you could be a strength based dual-wielder. Rangers support strength builds so that combo could actually work. Also I love Barbarians.

[GlenSmash!]

The issue with Barbarian is that you can't dual-wield with it, or at least the Rage features don't work with dual-wielding do they? I remember looking into and it felt like barbarians were locked into two-handed weapons.

Nothing forbids Barbarians from dual wielding. It's actually a great way to do damage until you get another attack at 5 (or 4 with a feat). Barbarians are by no means locked into two-handed weapons. The only synergy there is between Reckless attack, and the Great weapon Master Feat.

[Ravinsild]

Nothing forbids Barbarians from dual wielding. It's actually a great way to do damage until you get another attack at 5 (or 4 with a feat). Barbarians are by no means locked into two-handed weapons. The only synergy there is between Reckless attack, and the Great weapon Master Feat.

No I was confused by the "must be strength" which effectively bars out Dexterity based Barbarians, but not strength dual-wielders. Or, at the very least, Dexterity barbarians don't get the full benefits of rage.

All that said, a dual-wielding barbarian who is strength based mixed with a strength based Ranger is a tempting idea. Although I wonder about the lack of mobility, it really is more of a "vengenace tank" and I was going for the more traditional DPR approach, or "havoc" in WoW. Also I hate homebrew and I feel D&D is versatile enough to support the concept of a mobile anti-mage with excellent tracking abilities that dual-wields without having to create a whole new class.

[DevilMcam]

I would probably go ranger 2/ valor Bard 18 as a winged tiefeling

winged tiefeling grants you fly, and darkvision wich contribute to you supersight
ranger 2 gives you favored enemy, Two weapon fighting style as well as 2 spells, longstrider for mobility and hunter's mark or jump
You want bard for the magical secrets : 6 spells from any spell list two up to lvl 6, two up to lvl 8 abd two up to lvl 9
Valor bard help you kick ass and cast spells while doing so

for the magical secrets :
Detect evil and good (lvl1) to sense demons
Haste (lvl 3) to help you with mobility, evasion (more AC means more evasion) and beating
Fire shield (lvl 4) could be a decent fire aura, but you need to get hit for it to actually damage things
True seeing (lvl 6) for super sight, it's even a bard spell
True polymorph (lvl 9) from magical secrets let you transform into basically anything so a demon or anything close (Evil Deva or something) is Okay, it's even a bard spell
Feeblemind(lvl8) or counterspell (lvl3) could give a decend mana burn feeling

Haste compete with true polymorph for concentration, and detect evil and good is mostly for out of combat stuff

Wizard could get you most of these spells but you'll lose the ability to kill stuff with your swords

[Mortis_Elrod]

Illidan in Heroes of the Storm has Dive, a gap closer, sweeping strike, which is another gap closer/opener with attached immolation aura, and again evasion, with either "The Hunt" using his "Spectral Sight" to see enemies and teleport to them (Stunning them but D&D doesn't have stuns so meh) and of course Metamorphosis.

Stuns are in D&D, in fact that's he whole Shtick of the Monk. Hrmmm maybe way of shadow + ranger ? Nah....

[GlenSmash!]

No I was confused by the "must be strength" which effectively bars out Dexterity based Barbarians, but not strength dual-wielders. Or, at the very least, Dexterity barbarians don't get the full benefits of rage.

All that said, a dual-wielding barbarian who is strength based mixed with a strength based Ranger is a tempting idea. Although I wonder about the lack of mobility, it really is more of a "vengenace tank" and I was going for the more traditional DPR approach, or "havoc" in WoW. Also I hate homebrew and I feel D&D is versatile enough to support the concept of a mobile anti-mage with excellent tracking abilities that dual-wields without having to create a whole new class.

Where is there a lack of Mobility? Barbarians get extra movement, and Rangers have the Longstrider spell. Also you could always take the Mobile Feat.

I've run a Longsword wielding Strength based Barb/Ranger(Revised), who would Grapple foes, and then drag them through Spike Growths. Mobile was pretty helpful.

[Mortis_Elrod]

No I was confused by the "must be strength" which effectively bars out Dexterity based Barbarians, but not strength dual-wielders. Or, at the very least, Dexterity barbarians don't get the full benefits of rage.

All that said, a dual-wielding barbarian who is strength based mixed with a strength based Ranger is a tempting idea. Although I wonder about the lack of mobility, it really is more of a "vengenace tank" and I was going for the more traditional DPR approach, or "havoc" in WoW. Also I hate homebrew and I feel D&D is versatile enough to support the concept of a mobile anti-mage with excellent tracking abilities that dual-wields without having to create a whole new class.

Well Barbarian gets fast movement and if you go 12/8 you get fleet of foot from ranger. Not to mention rangers ignore difficult terrain, and you'll be a winged tiefling, so you are flying. You could go deepstalker for a bit more mobility and speed but not much. You're already pretty mobile is my point though

[Ravinsild]

I would probably go ranger 2/ valor Bard 18 as a winged tiefeling

winged tiefeling grants you fly, and darkvision wich contribute to you supersight
ranger 2 gives you favored enemy, Two weapon fighting style as well as 2 spells, longstrider for mobility and hunter's mark or jump
You want bard for the magical secrets : 6 spells from any spell list two up to lvl 6, two up to lvl 8 abd two up to lvl 9
Valor bard help you kick ass and cast spells while doing so

for the magical secrets :
Detect evil and good (lvl1) to sense demons
Haste (lvl 3) to help you with mobility, evasion (more AC means more evasion) and beating
Fire shield (lvl 4) could be a decent fire aura, but you need to get hit for it to actually damage things
True seeing (lvl 6) for super sight
True polymorph (lvl 9) from magical secrets let you transform into basically anything so a demon or anything close (Evil Deva or something) is Okay
Feeblemind(lvl8) or counterspell (lvl3) could give a decend mana burn feeling

Sadly most of thoses spells are concentration so you won't be able to have all of them up at all the time

Wizard could get you most of these spells but you'll lose the ability to kill stuff with your swords

I thought about Bard but the class features and all the trappings don't really sell the class fantasy to me. To see what I mean here's the Warcraft 3 Description:

"Demon Hunters are dark, shadowy warriors who are shunned by the greater Night Elf society. They made a pact, long ago, to fight against the forces of chaos using its own terrible powers against it. These mysterious warriors ritually blind themselves so that they develop 'spectral sight' that enables them to see demons and undead with greater clarity. They wield demonically charged warblades in battle and even call upon demonic energies to augment their formidable combat skills. Although they are counted as some of the mightiest warriors within the Night Elves' society, the Demon Hunters are always maligned and misunderstood for making their selfless pact with darkness. "

Or for the World of Warcraft Class Description:

"Demon hunters, disciples of Illidan Stormrage, uphold a dark legacy, one that frightens their allies and enemies alike. The Illidari embrace fel and chaotic magics—energies that have long threatened the world of Azeroth—believing them necessary to challenge the Burning Legion. Wielding the powers of demons they’ve slain, they develop demonic features that incite revulsion and dread in fellow elves.

Demon hunters ritually blind themselves in exchange for spectral sight that enables them to better sense their prey. This enhanced awareness, together with their great agility and magical prowess, makes demon hunters unpredictable adversaries. An Illidari’s quarry has much to fear.

Forgoing heavy armor, demon hunters capitalize on speed, closing the distance quickly to sever enemies with one-handed weapons. However, Illidari must also use their agility defensively to ensure that battles end favorably.

They can command chaotic energies to inflict havoc on enemies, or they can focus their powers to resist damage. Demon hunters fuel vengeful attacks and are a leather-wearing melee DPS and tank class, with only two specializations: Havoc (DPS)"

The Bard just doesn't sell that kind of theme to me, however Warlock/Ranger does, and so could a Phoenix or Draconic Sorcerer/Ranger recoloring any fire based spells as "green fire" because in WoW all demonic fire is green for some reason. Basically demon hunters use anti-magic capabilities, and demon magic (green fire) plus high mobility to evade taking damage and fighting with two blades, also transforming into Demons themselves to combat evil.

[Ravinsild]

Where is there a lack of Mobility? Barbarians get extra movement, and Rangers have the Longstrider spell. Also you could always take the Mobile Feat.

I've run a Longsword wielding Strength based Barb/Ranger(Revised), who would Grapple foes, and then drag them through Spike Growths. Mobile was pretty helpful.

You make a valid point. I was thinking of features like "Relentless Hex" to gap close and "Misty Step" to teleport, plus spells like "Freedom of Movement" and the Escape one, where you can take the dash action, plus Jump of course. Basically with all of the above, plus ensnaring strike from Ranger and Booming Blade, things either cannot get away from you by threat of damage or can't because no matter where they go, you can follow. Inescapable :P

[Mortis_Elrod]

You make a valid point. I was thinking of features like "Relentless Hex" to gap close and "Misty Step" to teleport, plus spells like "Freedom of Movement" and the Escape one, where you can take the dash action, plus Jump of course. Basically with all of the above, plus ensnaring strike from Ranger and Booming Blade, things either cannot get away from you by threat of damage or can't because no matter where they go, you can follow. Inescapable :P

Oh if that's the issue you are having go High elf Mystic 14/ Ranger 6. Grab mastery of fire for fire aura, nomadic step for teleporting, bb or gfb for high elf wizard cantrip, bestial (demonic) transformation, maybe brute force for high jumps, master of air for gliding and blur effect, mastery of force because it's awesome and gives you 14+Dex for no concentration AC, and force choke. Aura sight or Third Eye for your spectral sight.


Seems pretty fitting. You could even go soul knife and have your Soul-Glaives. Immortal is tankier, nomadic is very mobile and you grab some spells from wizard with Wu-Jen

[Ravinsild]

Oh if that's the issue you are having go High elf Mystic 14/ Ranger 6. Grab mastery of fire for fire aura, nomadic step for teleporting, bb or gfb for high elf wizard cantrip, bestial (demonic) transformation, maybe brute force for high jumps, master of air for gliding and blur effect, mastery of force because it's awesome and gives you 14+Dex for no concentration AC, and force choke. Aura sight or Third Eye for your spectral sight.


Seems pretty fitting. You could even go soul knife and have your Soul-Glaives. Immortal is tankier, nomadic is very mobile and you grab some spells from wizard with Wu-Jen

Holy butt socks I forgot about the Mystic! I'll have to look at all these things you said, and it's funny enough I was just asking how good the mystic is. Monster Slayer Ranger 6/??? Mystic? Maybe Order of the Immortal?

For reference images:


http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120619025720/lucerne/images/0/05/Illidan_Stormrage1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/aPCsBpM.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/d7/39/65/d7396501fb3388fd9565124fbf335ab6--dota-warcraft-warcraft-art.jpg


Although, to be honest, I enjoy the idea of the Barbarian. So far Ranger/X seems to be sticking, it's just a matter of who is X? Barbarian, Warlock, Sorcerer, Mystic... Hmmm

[Mortis_Elrod]

Holy butt socks I forgot about the Mystic! I'll have to look at all these things you said, and it's funny enough I was just asking how good the mystic is. Monster Slayer Ranger 6/??? Mystic? Maybe Order of the Immortal?

For reference images:


http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120619025720/lucerne/images/0/05/Illidan_Stormrage1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/aPCsBpM.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/d7/39/65/d7396501fb3388fd9565124fbf335ab6--dota-warcraft-warcraft-art.jpg


Although, to be honest, I enjoy the idea of the Barbarian. So far Ranger/X seems to be sticking, it's just a matter of who is X? Barbarian, Warlock, Sorcerer, Mystic... Hmmm

Yeah you can't be a demon hunter without the favored enemy fiends, it's kind of required, it also gives extra attack and fighting style which is the things lacking in mystic martial options, and decent spells. If you grab all the disciplines I mentioned you can make a pretty good soul knife. Monster slayer seems to be what you're after thematically, only other option would be deepstalker. And you can do some nice damage adding potent psionics, Slayers Eye, hone the blade into your attacks, and bursting with brute force.

[Ravinsild]

Yeah you can't be a demon hunter without the favored enemy fiends, it's kind of required, it also gives extra attack and fighting style which is the things lacking in mystic martial options, and decent spells. If you grab all the disciplines I mentioned you can make a pretty good soul knife. Monster slayer seems to be what you're after thematically, only other option would be deepstalker. And you can do some nice damage adding potent psionics, Slayers Eye, hone the blade into your attacks, and bursting with brute force.

Monster Slayer is exactly the Ranger subclass I was thinking of. However, for some reason, it didn't occur to me to look into the Mystic but literally everything fits. My only question with bestial transformation is: How long do the claws last? Just the one attack? You just lash out and strike with claws for Xd10 damage or w/e it was for a single action?

The Psionic Blades that come out of your hands really remind me of Protoss Zealot blades, which is actually awesome. I'll just say they form Warglaives because the fun thing with D&D is you can refluff the things crunch to make sense for the concept but the crunch is solid enough to carry the fantasy.

Otherwise everything checks out. Even better it's almost exactly like the game mechanics, where Immolation Aura had a certain duration, so if you cancel your concentration on the Fire Form in Master of Fire and choose, say, the Master of Air Wind Form it's like swapping from Immolation Aura to "Evasion" and so forth. Also I think the Mystic has some counter spell abilities to silence casters. All in all reflavor brain power stuff as "Demonic Energy" and so forth and bing bang boom it's pretty much set for mobility, transformation, damage, tracking and more. What a great class.

Personally I'm sticking with a Feral Tiefling just because I've always wanted to play a Tiefling but could never find the right concept and this one seems perfect. I'm already playing a High Elf in another campaign as it is.

With the Mystic and Ranger I can cover:

- Spectral Sight with Slayer's Eye Ranger Feature and Third Eye or Aura Sight Mystic Psionic Discipline and even the Keen Senses Bestial Form augmentation Mystic Discipline
- Dual Wielding with the Ranger's Two-Weapon Fighting Feature
- Fel Fire Utilization with the Mystic's Master of Fire psionic discipline
- Evasion from the Cloak of Air Master of Air Mystic Discipline
- Metamorphosis as a combination of Brute Strength and Bestial Form augmentations or perhaps Giant Form from the Mystic Disciplines
- Mobility Master of Air from the Mystic Discipline grants flying, and Misty Form, and there's also Brute Force Leap, in addition to beast form flight, plus nomadic teleportation all from the Mystic
- Stickiness I'm not sure how well I am at staying in melee range and keeping enemies from getting away, but I sure can sense/see/track them through a plethora of Ranger and Mystic Features/Disciplines such as Slayer's Eye, Favored Enemy, Primeval Awareness, and more.

[Mortis_Elrod]

So the claws are a big reason why I normally never mention this discipline, they are broken. Broken for one thing and one thing only
- no action cost


Because of this I just would avoid it. I don't like to abuse things, and the only way should use this is if you tack on an action cost. I would say Action, as there are already a plethora of bonus action effects that mystics can use and not many Action melee attacks. It's also more damage than a person could normally get with a single bonus action attack with same cost (1 psi point).

Functionally as is, you make claws and slash with them, and they last only for the attack. You can do it all day everyday as log as you have psi points. You could blow baldness your load on this one discipline then use the other half for whatever you want.

[Ravinsild]

So the claws are a big reason why I normally never mention this discipline, they are broken. Broken for one thing and one thing only
- no action cost


Because of this I just would avoid it. I don't like to abuse things, and the only way should use this is if you tack on an action cost. I would say Action, as there are already a plethora of bonus action effects that mystics can use and not many Action melee attacks. It's also more damage than a person could normally get with a single bonus action attack with same cost (1 psi point).

Functionally as is, you make claws and slash with them, and they last only for the attack. You can do it all day everyday as log as you have psi points. You could blow baldness your load on this one discipline then use the other half for whatever you want.


Bestial Claws (1–7 psi). You manifest long claws for an instant and make a melee weapon attack against one creature within 5 feet of you. On a hit, this attack deals 1d10 slashing damage per psi point spent.

Doesn't this sort of imply it's an attack action cost sort of like "Make a melee attack" thing in Green-Flame Blade and things similar?

[Mortis_Elrod]

Bestial Claws (1–7 psi). You manifest long claws for an instant and make a melee weapon attack against one creature within 5 feet of you. On a hit, this attack deals 1d10 slashing damage per psi point spent.

Doesn't this sort of imply it's an attack action cost sort of like "Make a melee attack" thing in Green-Flame Blade and things similar?

Nope. There is Attack action which is specific, and green flame blade which uses Cast a Spell Action. When you use a discipline it's different from both. Right before the discipline descriptions it tells about how disciplines work. They will say what action they use if any. This one just says to make a melee weapon attack. Therefor no action required since none stated and there is no default action cost for disciplines like there are spells and no restriction on how many disciplines you can use a turn like spells.


It's ridiculous yes. I just don't use it. Play test material has a lot of wording errors, and this one is huge.

[Ravinsild]

Nope. There is Attack action which is specific, and green flame blade which uses Cast a Spell Action. When you use a discipline it's different from both. Right before the discipline descriptions it tells about how disciplines work. They will say what action they use if any. This one just says to make a melee weapon attack. Therefor no action required since none stated and there is no default action cost for disciplines like there are spells and no restriction on how many disciplines you can use a turn like spells.


It's ridiculous yes. I just don't use it. Play test material has a lot of wording errors, and this one is huge.

I figured it was more like summoning beast claws that stayed, like the Shardmind's psionic weapons, but apparently not. It's vaguely worded which leaves me wondering what it does. I'm guessing the claws disappear after the attack, which seems kind of counterintuitive.

Also how does Psionic Weapon Discipline interact with the Shardmind's summoned psychic blades?

I'm also very grateful for all of your help. I think we've pretty much used official to semi-official content with 0% homebrew to make a legitimate Demon Hunter with all the trappings and a slight twist of fluff here and there.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Yeah it be better if that one was changed to making your unarmed attacks deal slashing damage 1d6 with like a minute duration no concentration. Really want claws but no good ones without moon Druid or certain race + monk.

Anyways, I'm assuming you mean the soul knives and psionic weapon.

Focus: useless, you already deal psychic damage.

Ethereal weapon: ok so effectively this is an auto hit in exchange of your other attack (TWF). Its not as good as it seems since you can get pretty accurate with Hone the Blade, and you lose out on additional effect of they make the save.

Lethal strike: so this is some ok burst, but you lose your other attack for it (TWF). Not bad but worse than smite since you have to use it before you hit and it only lasts for that turn.

Augemented weapon: so concentration and 5 pp ONE of your blades gets +3. This stacks with Hone the Blade , however it's another Bonus action and it doesn't affect the other soul knife. It's not horrible by any means though and some DMs would even rule it afffects both mindblades which would make this a worthy discipline.


Otherwise skip this and use Brute force. Mighty leap is good, the focus is decent, and Knock Back is the best burst option since it uses your reaction, moves the target, and you can activate when you hit not before. Feat of Strength is also really good

[Spiritchaser]

One of the key traits of the demon hunter is the source of their strength.

They tap into the forbidden power of the demons of the legion.

Accordingly, I propose a warlock as the clear choice.

Winged tiefling hexblade using +cha to attack would be a reasonable starting point though starting with another class to get two weapon fighting style wouldn't be a bad idea. You'd have to talk your DM into having pact weaponS but for my part I'd allow it.

Yes I know fiend would be better than hexblade thematically, but mechanically hexblade just works better.

With invocations you can get your extra sight and mobility (refluff devil's sight). Relentless hex is pretty cool for fast movement as well

Unfortunately twf hexblade isn't the very best hexblade for damage, but it certainly isn't bad.

I have no idea what the stats on a warglaive would be, I'd probably just call them 1d6 weapons.

[Ravinsild]

One of the key traits of the demon hunter is the source of their strength.

They tap into the forbidden power of the demons of the legion.

Accordingly, I propose a warlock as the clear choice.

Winged tiefling hexblade using +cha to attack would be a reasonable starting point though starting with another class to get two weapon fighting style wouldn't be a bad idea. You'd have to talk your DM into having pact weaponS but for my part I'd allow it.

Yes I know fiend would be better than hexblade thematically, but mechanically hexblade just works better.

With invocations you can get your extra sight and mobility (refluff devil's sight). Relentless hex is pretty cool for fast movement as well

Unfortunately twf hexblade isn't the very best hexblade for damage, but it certainly isn't bad.

I have no idea what the stats on a warglaive would be, I'd probably just call them 1d6 weapons.

That's another reason Warlock seemed like a great fit, but unfortunately one cannot be a Hexblade and have the Fiend Patron, and from what I understand a Fiend Patron pact boon blade is not the best way to go about being a melee/gish.

That said I figure I'd just refluff the "psychic" stuff of the mystic as "absorbing a demon and it giving me power from within" which is basically how Demon Hunters work. So my mystic wouldn't be using psychic powers of the mind, but rather the demon essence from within to fuel their effects and spells.

A little fluff tweak and it's basically like having a demonic patron instead of brain powers.

In addition my "Warglaives" would be Scimitar with their fluff rebranded as...well Warglaives. No need to reinvent the wheel when we already have some good slashing weapons that are able to be dual-wielded. I was going to do short swords but uh, they're piercing damage.

Demon Hunters don't stab things, they slash them.


http://classic.battle.net/war3/images/nightelf/units/animations/demonhunter.gif