Character build opinion, please offer your 2 cents.

[Starchild7309]

Opinion time: I am Swashbuckler Rogue 4/ Bladesinger wizard 2. Stats are:
Str: 12
Dex: 20
Con: 14
Int: 18
Wis: 10
Cha: 12

I am trying to decide if I should continue with bladesinger or if I should move into Battlemaster for the remainder of my levels. R/p wise it makes sense either way. The party consists of a AT rogue, EK Fighter, Paladin, Druid Circle of Land, and a Warlock GOO. I really like the spells I could get, but the battle master seems like an interesting addition as I spend most of my time bouncing around the battle field already picking off the enemy. AC during my the dance is 22 so I rarely get hit. I am not necessarily looking for the most optimized, but perhaps the most fun to play. Any thoughts or ideas?

[carrdrivesyou]

I'd suggest fighter - Champion. Gives you some good melee bonuses, notably the crit range. Extra Attack is also nice.

[PeteNutButter]

Battlemaster is basically straight up better than Champ, sadly.

That 5th rogue level is pretty hard to dodge though, if you'll pardon the pun. I'd grab that before anything else. So rogue to 5 then BM to 5 or 6. No reason to keep going in wizard, as your spells will be pretty weak to do much at this point. You could make a case for wizard 3 for mirror image, but with your AC, it's not really needed.

[carrdrivesyou]

Battlemaster is basically straight up better than Champ, sadly.

Care to elaborate? :D

[Potato_Priest]

Care to elaborate? :D

This tends to be an explosive debate, so perhaps not best conducted here.

Here's a previous thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?528527-Statistical-proof-against-champion-no-actual-impact&highlight=champion) on the subject.


To the OP: How far do you expect to go levels-wise, and at what levels do you expect you'll spend the majority of the game? What levels you reach and how long you're at them will heavily impact what classes will make the best multiclass options for you.

[EvilAnagram]

Honestly, I think Fighter is the wrong way to go here. Stick with rogue for the next three levels to grab evasion and 4d6 Sneak Attack.

[Starchild7309]

This tends to be an explosive debate, so perhaps not best conducted here.

Here's a previous thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?528527-Statistical-proof-against-champion-no-actual-impact&highlight=champion) on the subject.


To the OP: How far do you expect to go levels-wise, and at what levels do you expect you'll spend the majority of the game? What levels you reach and how long you're at them will heavily impact what classes will make the best multiclass options for you.

So according to the DM, we are guaranteed to make it to 15th level, but he would like to carry it to 20th if the characters survive that long. We tend to play campaigns out until it doesn't make sense anymore to keep rolling characters to keep the quests going.

[bid]

I am Swashbuckler Rogue 4/ Bladesinger wizard 2.

I am trying to decide if I should continue with bladesinger or if I should move into Battlemaster for the remainder of my levels.
You are much better to get your extra attack from wizard 6 than triple-dipping into fighter, no matter the archetype. Even the best of BM maneuvers are a weak substitute for what 3rd spells can give you.

I would keep rogue 5 in my backpocket, it can be a life-saver. I think blur from wizard 3 is better though.

[PeteNutButter]

You are much better to get your extra attack from wizard 6 than triple-dipping into fighter, no matter the archetype. Even the best of BM maneuvers are a weak substitute for what 3rd spells can give you.

I would keep rogue 5 in my backpocket, it can be a life-saver. I think blur from wizard 3 is better though.

With his high AC, blur is really strong. Personally I don't like self casting buff spells as an action, as fights don't often last long enough to make it worth the action cast.

BM moves are really good on a rogue as a Riposte can push out 2d8+3d6+mod with those 5 rogue levels, twenty some damage as a reaction. His high AC lends itself well to this.

[imanidiot]

Care to elaborate? :D

Champion's only problem is that it shines the brightest when you have multiple long (5+ rounds) combats between each long rest. They're at their best when other fighters run out of resources, which basically never happens.

[bid]

BM moves are really good on a rogue as a Riposte can push out 2d8+3d6+mod with those 5 rogue levels, twenty some damage as a reaction. His high AC lends itself well to this.
That works. And a bladesinger might be in melee range often enough that you'd want retaliation.

The melee range is all covered with paladin + EK + AT. Fancy footwork allows you to disengage without using your CA. You can use a long bow when not bladesinging. Damage-wise, 8 extra attacks does as much as 4 SD riposte.

I'd still prefer rogue 7 / wizard 6 to... something like rogue 7 / wizard 3 / BM 3.


You'll have to find strong RP gains to beat the reduced spellbook.

[djreynolds]

Opinion time: I am Swashbuckler Rogue 4/ Bladesinger wizard 2. Stats are:
Str: 12
Dex: 20
Con: 14
Int: 18
Wis: 10
Cha: 12

I am trying to decide if I should continue with bladesinger or if I should move into Battlemaster for the remainder of my levels. R/p wise it makes sense either way. The party consists of a AT rogue, EK Fighter, Paladin, Druid Circle of Land, and a Warlock GOO. I really like the spells I could get, but the battle master seems like an interesting addition as I spend most of my time bouncing around the battle field already picking off the enemy. AC during my the dance is 22 so I rarely get hit. I am not necessarily looking for the most optimized, but perhaps the most fun to play. Any thoughts or ideas?

If you are running around, I'm assuming you are BB/GFB and then disengaging with rakish audacity or using your BA with cunning action

In defense of more swashbuckler

Your cantrip damage will continue to scale.

But one more level of rogue gives you uncanny dodge, but then again you do have a really high AC and access to the shield spell, though limited spell slots.

So you could grab one more level of rogue for uncanny dodge, its right there. And then you may as well grab level 6 for 2 more skills with expertise. And then evasion is right there with another bump in SA damage.

A stated before your cantrip damage will continue to scale and you can mix it up in melee. But your whole party can go into a killing frenzy, I mean you have a bad bunch of bad A@#$ at your back

In defense of bladesinger

Consider the spells a wizard continues to acquire, any and everything your party lacks. But its the spells you will need to conquer future obstacles. Spells the warlock has only limited access to. You have access to them all.

Disguise self, feather fall, floating disk, knock, clairvoyance, fly, gaseous form, tiny hut, tongues, arcane eye, etc., etc.

I mean who is going to cast teleportation or legend lore.

Your spellbook is the party's most powerful asset.

IMO stay bladesinger and fill out that spellbook, though you will never see level 14 bladesinger, you will get and extra attack at 5th level and song of defense at level 10.

[Starchild7309]

If you are running around, I'm assuming you are BB/GFB and then disengaging with rakish audacity or using your BA with cunning action


In defense of bladesinger

Consider the spells a wizard continues to acquire, any and everything your party lacks. But its the spells you will need to conquer future obstacles. Spells the warlock has only limited access to. You have access to them all.

Disguise self, feather fall, floating disk, knock, clairvoyance, fly, gaseous form, tiny hut, tongues, arcane eye, etc., etc.

I mean who is going to cast teleportation or legend lore.

Your spellbook is the party's most powerful asset.

IMO stay bladesinger and fill out that spellbook, though you will never see level 14 bladesinger, you will get and extra attack at 5th level and song of defense at level 10.

I am using BB. (it did take some convincing and a Sage Advice article to get my DM to let me have SA and BB together).

I don't really want to take anymore rogue levels. It was really a question of more wizard or moving into battle master. I am very enticed by the upward scaling of damage per attack if I move into battle master with a dueling style and the ability to action surge along with the different techniques I would pick up from battle master. That being said though, I think more wizard may be what I go with based on much of what was said.

I had many people suggest more wizard and its hard to turn down a lot of those spells. I am looking at Mirror Image, Blur, Misty Step, Haste, and a few battlefield control spells which would come in handy. The only thing I don't like about the wizard vs. battle master is the reliance on long rests. Our DM likes to throw long drawn out days at us. Battle through attrition is often what happens and the reset of the short rest abilities does make battle master more interesting, though less powerful in the long run.

Next question if I get any responses after this. UA stuff is allowed. I am planning on picking up Warcaster at wizard 4 since most of the spells I will be picking up are not direct attack spells buffing my INT 20 is not as important. Any other feats I should look at instead or later on?