The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving class

[neversterling]

Firstly, I am not a content creator for this project.

This is a discussion & hype train thread for The City of Seven Seraphs by Lost Spheres Publishing currently on Kickstarter.

Link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lostspheres/city-of-seven-seraphs-a-planar-campaign-capstone-f

It's more than just veilweaving - This book will have over a dozen designers contributing to this 400-page campaign setting inspired by Planescape that includes 7 new or expanded classes and 7 new and expanded races:
Classes: Nexus, Radiant, Echo, Aberrant/Aegis, Shadewalker/Eclipse, Aethernaut, Theurge
Races: Mirrorkin, Judow, Xodai, Veryx, Ceptu, Shadow Fey, and Rhyzala.

Backers are provided with a closed playtest alpha of the new Nexus base class to be included in the book, a veilweaver designed by Ssalarn with a strong planar flavor and access to a large variety of new veils, as well as a preview of a piece of one of the many districts to be included.

I encourage everyone to check it out, and discuss!

There's also an ongoing thread on the Paizo boards as well: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uiay&page=1?City-of-Seven-Seraphs

[Ssalarn]

I barely even consider myself much of the draw for this book honestly. Colin "Planescape, Baldur's Gate 2, and Torment: Tides of Numenera" freaking McComb is working on this book, and he's basically RPG royalty. Plus a bunch of 1pp regulars like Todd Stewart and Liz Courts, 3pp royalty like Wolfgang Bauer and Dreamscarred's own Jeremy Smith in the stretch goals, my partner in crime from Spheres of Might N. Jolly is doing a new race... And this new artist Christen found, Vincent Coviello? Holy crap, he's awesome.

But yeah, if you like Akashic Mysteries I'm doing (at least one) new veilweaving class and (at least) 50 new veils that support not just the Nexus class, but the original 3 AM classes as well. It's a book with pretty equal measures of quality crunch and quality fluff, with dimension traveling ships and all kinds of adventure hooks.

[Mehangel]

What other 3rd Party system/world support will there be besides Veilweaving (Psionics, Path of War, etc)? Mostly I am curious about Drop Dead Studio content such as Sphere of Power, Sphere of Might, or Skybourne; However, I am not limited to only such.

[Ssalarn]

What other 3rd Party system/world support will there be besides Veilweaving (Psionics, Path of War, etc)? Mostly I am curious about Drop Dead Studio content such as Sphere of Power, Sphere of Might, or Skybourne; However, I am not limited to only such.

Psionics and akashic are the main two subsystems that will be supported. Since it's designed as a planar hub, the idea is that the cosmology and history of the City can click into literally any campaign, kind of like Sigil from the old Planescape setting, if you're familiar with that.

[Bahumut]

I'm going to paste my small review of the new Nexus class that I posted over on the Paizo boards:

"The Nexus certainly earns its place alongside the current Akashic classes, even in its early Playtest state...I love the synergy between the various veils in the Convergence 'packages', and with every new veil available to at least one of the other Akashic classes, it greatly expands the playstyle options of those classes!

As an example, the original Vizier veil selection leaned the class slightly towards evil characters; Two of the five Vizier-exclusive Ring slot veils have the evil descriptor, as well as the Vizier exclusive Heart of the Wight, while the only Vizier veil with the good descriptor is the Loyal Paladin's Spear of Light...this is remedied by five of the ten new veils associated with the Heavens being open to Viziers.

In closing, you knocked it out of the park again, Ssalarn...to everyone else, if you haven't backed the amazing City of Seven Seraphs kickstarter yet, you definitely should!"

Beyond that, this project will only get better and better with the 'Shadow Lock' puzzle/achievement system the creators are doing, which is completely separate from the stretch goals and are adding new races and classes as each puzzle-thing is solved!

[Ssalarn]

Another cool reveal today on the blog, the veryx (https://lostspherespublishing.wordpress.com/2017/08/26/no-more-middlemen-enemies-of-the-city-of-7-seraphs-the-runeweaver-syndicate/), a playable race of planar spiders. I love the art that keeps showing up for this book.

[Kaidinah]

I honestly cannot believe the quality of the art for this project. Those Veryx and Judow? Totally amazing.

Having a new planar hub with new shiny toys has been on my wishlist for a while.

[beastofmideon]

This book like it is one I am going to use a lot. I love planar adventures and I can think of dozens of stories just from the information that has been teased.

[Ssalarn]

Just in case anyone missed, Christen revealed his 5th Shadow Lock today. The Shadow Locks are like stretch goals that go off of audience participation instead of funding levels, and the reveals so far have included two new races and a new shadow-themed base class, so if you're a backer it's worth checking out the latest Kickstarter update and seeing if you can tackle the riddle and solve the puzzle!

[AlmaPenzare]

I backed this for $21 but have yet to recieve my closed beta pdf

[Ssalarn]

I backed this for $21 but have yet to recieve my closed beta pdf

If you've backed you should be able to pull the playtest docs from this update link (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lostspheres/city-of-seven-seraphs-a-planar-campaign-capstone-f/posts/1968391).

[AlmaPenzare]

Ah, thank you very much

[Ssalarn]

Ah, thank you very much

No problem!

Also, art for the female version of the new veryx player race (https://lostspherespublishing.wordpress.com/2017/08/28/girl-power-city-of-seven-seraphs-female-veryx/) came in and it's pretty damn cool.

[Kaidinah]

Guys did you see the art fo-


No problem!

Also, art for the female version of the new veryx player race (https://lostspherespublishing.wordpress.com/2017/08/28/girl-power-city-of-seven-seraphs-female-veryx/) came in and it's pretty damn cool.
I was beaten to it. So is it just me or is she wearing a funny hat too?

[Ssalarn]

Guys did you see the art fo-


I was beaten to it. So is it just me or is she wearing a funny hat too?

I'm not sure on the hat, I'll have to ask Christen. Also, I shared this over in the Paizo thread so I thought I'd drop it here too-


Aphora’s Belt of Fire
Descriptors: none
Class: Guru, ???????, Vizier
Slot: Belt
Saving Throw: Reflex
While Aphos studied darker paths, his twin Aphora reveled in the light and chaos of Fire’s purity.
While this veil shaped you gain a 5 ft. aura that causes any creature possessing an attack that can inflict poison or disease on a creature (such as an ettercap or mummy) to take 1d6 points of fire damage whenever they enter a square adjacent to you or when you end your turn adjacent to them (Reflex half). In addition, the duration of any poison or disease effect you suffer is reduced by 1 round. Poisons and disease whose effects are measured in longer durations such as hours or days (such as mummy rot) are instead reduced by an amount equal to 1 instance of their normal frequency. Effects that normally do not expire after a set duration are treated as having a duration equal to their frequency multiplied by 20.
Essence: For each point of essence invested in this veil the fire damage dealt to poisonous or disease-bearing creatures is increased by 1d6 and the duration of poisons and diseases you suffer is reduced by 1 additional round or unit of frequency.
Chakra Bind (Belt): [G17, ?15, V16] While this veil is bound to your Belt chakra you gain the ability to summon up a chariot of flame as a standard action. The chariot remains until you dismiss it as a free action and occupies the same amount of space as a Huge creature and can carry you and up to 4 other Medium creatures (or 8 Small creatures, or 2 Large creatures) and possesses a fly speed of 60 ft. + 10 ft. per point of essence invested with perfect maneuverability. Any creature carried by the chariot gains fire resistance equal to 10 + 10 per point of essence invested as long as they are within the chariot. The chariot moves as you command it but requires your move action to do so. Any creature or object who moves through a square adjacent to the chariot or ends their turn adjacent to it takes 1d6 points of fire damage + 1d6 per point of essence invested. The chariot can be used to light flammable objects, such as ship’s sails, on fire by passing adjacent to them.

Ceradon’s Eternity
Descriptors: None
Class: Daevic, ???????, Vizier
Slot: Body, Chest
Saving Throw: none
Ceradon chose Eternity that he could love Hyandil always, and was rewarded with an eternity of regret.
Shaping this temporal veil grants you the powers of eternity itself. You gain the ability to place yourself or a willing touched creature in a state of temporal stasis, preventing any negative effects with a recurring frequency (such as disease, poison, or bleed damage) from occurring; this effect also blocks effects that heal over time, such as fast healing or regeneration, but not instantaneous effects such as a cure light wounds spell. You can only have one creature affected by this ability at a time and its effects remain in place as long as this veil is shaped. Suppressing or sundering the veil ends this protection. If this ability ends for any reason, including you willingly ending it as a free action, any effects immediately resume from the point they were at when the ability was first used.
Essence: For each point of essence invested in this veil you may apply its effects to one additional creature.
Chakra Bind (Chest): [D19, V18] Binding this veil to your Chest chakra gives you greater control over the forces of eternity. While you or another creature is affected by the temporal stasis effect, negative conditions continue to move at their normal frequency but the protected creature is immune to their effects (so a poisoned creature would still be entitled to saving throws at the normal intervals but would not suffer the consequences of failing a saving throw, and the poison would continue to run its course expiring at the normal time). In addition, you may take a point of essence burn as an immediate action to attempt to counter a time-based spell such as haste, slow, or time stop.
Chakra Bind (Body): [D20, ?18, V20] In addition to the effects of your Chest chakra, binding this veil to your Body chakra protects you from the ravages of time. Each hour you have this veil shaped rejuvenates you, reducing your age by 1 year until you reach your minimum age for adulthood. Benefits for having reached a certain age, such as bonuses to your mental ability scores, are retained but can only be gained once regardless of how often you reach an older age category. In addition, you gain regeneration equal to 5 + the number of points of essence invested in this veil; this regeneration can only be suppressed by suppressing or disjoining this veil.

Hyandil’s Flowered Crown
Descriptors: none
Class: Guru, Nexus, ???????, Vizier
Slot: Head
Saving Throw: none
Though she loved Ceradon most of all, all love fled Hyandil upon Aphos’s betrayal and Maelwyn’s death. Flowers that once spoke of life and joy now marked promises of death.
Shaping this regal veil crown’s your head in brilliant flowers of every color imaginable. You gain a +2 insight bonus to Diplomacy checks and are under the effects of a speak with plants spell for as long as this veil is shaped. You may use Diplomacy to influence creatures of the plant type regardless of their Intelligence; you still cannot convince a plant to perform an action it would not be capable of performing.
Essence: For each point of essence invested in this veil, the insight bonus to Diplomacy increases by +1.
Chakra Bind (Head): [G8, N6, ?6, V6] Binding this veil to your Head chakra fills the crown with verdant life, granting you the ability to breathe life into a tree and transform it into a treant (use the statistics for a treant presented in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Bestiary). You can only have one treant formed in this way at a time. For every point of essence invested in this veil, the treant gains an additional 5 hit points and a +1 insight bonus to attack rolls, armor class, damage rolls, and saving throws.


The flavor text and names for this set are particular to the City of Seven Seraphs campaign setting and are discussed in some detail on the Lost Spheres blog (https://lostspherespublishing.wordpress.com/2017/08/27/love-loss-enemies-of-the-city-of-7-seraphs-the-flowered-queen-lightbringers/).

[Kaidinah]

I'm not sure on the hat, I'll have to ask Christen. Also, I shared this over in the Paizo thread so I thought I'd drop it here too-


Aphora’s Belt of Fire
Descriptors: none
Class: Guru, ???????, Vizier
Slot: Belt
Saving Throw: Reflex
While Aphos studied darker paths, his twin Aphora reveled in the light and chaos of Fire’s purity.
While this veil shaped you gain a 5 ft. aura that causes any creature possessing an attack that can inflict poison or disease on a creature (such as an ettercap or mummy) to take 1d6 points of fire damage whenever they enter a square adjacent to you or when you end your turn adjacent to them (Reflex half). In addition, the duration of any poison or disease effect you suffer is reduced by 1 round. Poisons and disease whose effects are measured in longer durations such as hours or days (such as mummy rot) are instead reduced by an amount equal to 1 instance of their normal frequency. Effects that normally do not expire after a set duration are treated as having a duration equal to their frequency multiplied by 20.
Essence: For each point of essence invested in this veil the fire damage dealt to poisonous or disease-bearing creatures is increased by 1d6 and the duration of poisons and diseases you suffer is reduced by 1 additional round or unit of frequency.
Chakra Bind (Belt): [G17, ?15, V16] While this veil is bound to your Belt chakra you gain the ability to summon up a chariot of flame as a standard action. The chariot remains until you dismiss it as a free action and occupies the same amount of space as a Huge creature and can carry you and up to 4 other Medium creatures (or 8 Small creatures, or 2 Large creatures) and possesses a fly speed of 60 ft. + 10 ft. per point of essence invested with perfect maneuverability. Any creature carried by the chariot gains fire resistance equal to 10 + 10 per point of essence invested as long as they are within the chariot. The chariot moves as you command it but requires your move action to do so. Any creature or object who moves through a square adjacent to the chariot or ends their turn adjacent to it takes 1d6 points of fire damage + 1d6 per point of essence invested. The chariot can be used to light flammable objects, such as ship’s sails, on fire by passing adjacent to them.

Ceradon’s Eternity
Descriptors: None
Class: Daevic, ???????, Vizier
Slot: Body, Chest
Saving Throw: none
Ceradon chose Eternity that he could love Hyandil always, and was rewarded with an eternity of regret.
Shaping this temporal veil grants you the powers of eternity itself. You gain the ability to place yourself or a willing touched creature in a state of temporal stasis, preventing any negative effects with a recurring frequency (such as disease, poison, or bleed damage) from occurring; this effect also blocks effects that heal over time, such as fast healing or regeneration, but not instantaneous effects such as a cure light wounds spell. You can only have one creature affected by this ability at a time and its effects remain in place as long as this veil is shaped. Suppressing or sundering the veil ends this protection. If this ability ends for any reason, including you willingly ending it as a free action, any effects immediately resume from the point they were at when the ability was first used.
Essence: For each point of essence invested in this veil you may apply its effects to one additional creature.
Chakra Bind (Chest): [D19, V18] Binding this veil to your Chest chakra gives you greater control over the forces of eternity. While you or another creature is affected by the temporal stasis effect, negative conditions continue to move at their normal frequency but the protected creature is immune to their effects (so a poisoned creature would still be entitled to saving throws at the normal intervals but would not suffer the consequences of failing a saving throw, and the poison would continue to run its course expiring at the normal time). In addition, you may take a point of essence burn as an immediate action to attempt to counter a time-based spell such as haste, slow, or time stop.
Chakra Bind (Body): [D20, ?18, V20] In addition to the effects of your Chest chakra, binding this veil to your Body chakra protects you from the ravages of time. Each hour you have this veil shaped rejuvenates you, reducing your age by 1 year until you reach your minimum age for adulthood. Benefits for having reached a certain age, such as bonuses to your mental ability scores, are retained but can only be gained once regardless of how often you reach an older age category. In addition, you gain regeneration equal to 5 + the number of points of essence invested in this veil; this regeneration can only be suppressed by suppressing or disjoining this veil.

Hyandil’s Flowered Crown
Descriptors: none
Class: Guru, Nexus, ???????, Vizier
Slot: Head
Saving Throw: none
Though she loved Ceradon most of all, all love fled Hyandil upon Aphos’s betrayal and Maelwyn’s death. Flowers that once spoke of life and joy now marked promises of death.
Shaping this regal veil crown’s your head in brilliant flowers of every color imaginable. You gain a +2 insight bonus to Diplomacy checks and are under the effects of a speak with plants spell for as long as this veil is shaped. You may use Diplomacy to influence creatures of the plant type regardless of their Intelligence; you still cannot convince a plant to perform an action it would not be capable of performing.
Essence: For each point of essence invested in this veil, the insight bonus to Diplomacy increases by +1.
Chakra Bind (Head): [G8, N6, ?6, V6] Binding this veil to your Head chakra fills the crown with verdant life, granting you the ability to breathe life into a tree and transform it into a treant (use the statistics for a treant presented in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Bestiary). You can only have one treant formed in this way at a time. For every point of essence invested in this veil, the treant gains an additional 5 hit points and a +1 insight bonus to attack rolls, armor class, damage rolls, and saving throws.


The flavor text and names for this set are particular to the City of Seven Seraphs campaign setting and are discussed in some detail on the Lost Spheres blog (https://lostspherespublishing.wordpress.com/2017/08/27/love-loss-enemies-of-the-city-of-7-seraphs-the-flowered-queen-lightbringers/).
Thanks for forwarding the question for me.

You know, it really looks like we might be getting another veilweaving class there. It really really does.

[Ssalarn]

Thanks for forwarding the question for me.
No problem! Christen's response was
"In all honesty we asked Vincent to portray her wearing gear like a normal melee fighter would have, so her abdominal scalemail, leg-blade vambrances and her helmet-crown are all part of that. We like to imagine she won the helmet in a gladiatorial pit lending to its "Queen of the Ring" look."



You know, it really looks like we might be getting another veilweaving class there. It really really does.

It does look that way, doesn't it? I don't have a ton of room to talk on the subject at the moment, but I will say that Trinities are a big thing in City of Seven Seraphs and the full planned scope of this book is impressive; Christen intends it to be something that you can run an entire campaign with using no other book but the CRB (and maybe not even if that if you're an experienced enough GM). That includes being able to build an entire party capable of covering all the critical roles and functions a group might need.

[Bahumut]

It does look that way, doesn't it? I don't have a ton of room to talk on the subject at the moment, but I will say that Trinities are a big thing in City of Seven Seraphs and the full planned scope of this book is impressive; Christen intends it to be something that you can run an entire campaign with using no other book but the CRB (and maybe not even if that if you're an experienced enough GM). That includes being able to build an entire party capable of covering all the critical roles and functions a group might need.

We get it, your hands are tied, yadda yadda...until then, I'll be patiently waiting for the 'Rocket-punches people with trees' veilweaver to make an appearance. :smallbiggrin:

Seriously though, I first backed this project on the strength of the Nexus (and the associated new veils) alone, but it looks like we'll be getting a positively staggering amount of content! New races and classes, Akashic and otherwise. I'm particularly excited about the Shadewalker, as I've heard it takes inspiration (in part) from the old Shadowcaster...a class that I loved, even though it was pretty weak, power-wise.

[Lost_Spheres]

We get it, your hands are tied, yadda yadda...until then, I'll be patiently waiting for the 'Rocket-punches people with trees' veilweaver to make an appearance. :smallbiggrin:

Would if make you happy to know that I did see a tree punch a Leng spider in last night's playtest? More than once?

[Bahumut]

Would if make you happy to know that I did see a tree punch a Leng spider in last night's playtest? More than once?

YAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSS!!!

As I said before, you guys keep going above and beyond, especially with keeping us informed and involved in the campaign. :smallsmile:

[Dr_Dinosaur]

The chariot remains until you dismiss it as a free action and occupies the same amount of space as a Huge creature and can carry you and up to 4 other Medium creatures (or 8 Small creatures, or 2 Large creatures) and possesses a fly speed of 60 ft. + 10 ft. per point of essence invested with perfect maneuverability.
I feel like this could be worded better. Maybe:

"The chariot remains until you dismiss it as a free action and occupies the same amount of space as a Huge creature. It can carry you and up to 4 other Medium creatures (or 8 Small creatures, or 2 Large creatures) and possesses a fly speed of 60 ft. + 10 ft. per point of essence invested with perfect maneuverability."

[Ssalarn]

I feel like this could be worded better. Maybe:

"The chariot remains until you dismiss it as a free action and occupies the same amount of space as a Huge creature. It can carry you and up to 4 other Medium creatures (or 8 Small creatures, or 2 Large creatures) and possesses a fly speed of 60 ft. + 10 ft. per point of essence invested with perfect maneuverability."

Was actually just tidying that veil set up! Thanks for the feedback :smallsmile:

I'll note too that we've done a lot of refining, even on the more developed classes and mechanics like the Nexus, so everything is going to be as smooth and neat as we're capable of delivering by the time it's through final layout. I've been actively writing and developing materials as the Kickstarter has progressed, and we've been making a point of trying to deliver previews as soon as they're presentable so everyone can get a taste of what's in store with the project. These are previews though, and in many instances are still being put through editing and development.

[Kaidinah]

Well it looks like what it looked like was what it was. New akashic class called the Radiant was announced with a darn good looking art piece accompanying it. Will this class, and eventually the Shadewalker and Echo be getting preview docs like the Nexus?
https://lostspherespublishing.wordpress.com/2017/09/01/feel-the-love-shadow-lock-six-is-solved-the-radiant-is-revealed/

[NomGarret]

The Radiant promises some of the most unique support-play in the Pathfinder RPG environment and backers will receive closed playtest access at the end of the Campaign!

Looks like a 'yes' to me.

[Lost_Spheres]

Looks like a 'yes' to me.

You are quite correct NomGarret. Radiant will be a closed backer playtest right after the campaign funds, with more to follow.

[khadgar567]

Can we get wings bind for dark side just to complete the make your own evil guy set

[Ssalarn]

Can we get wings bind for dark side just to complete the make your own evil guy set


There will be some cool shadowy and evil veils available in the final product. Still hammering a few things out, but there's probably going to be a veil that lets you ride around on a dragon made of shadow.

Also, I'm at PAX atm so I'm going off of memory, but I remember I wrote wing veils for both the Abyssal and Hells veil sets on the Nexus that are available to a couple other classes. Pretty sure it's spore-shooting vrock wings for Abyssal and fear aura pit fiend wings for Hells.

[stack]

Vrock and roll.

Your recollection is correct. Both shoulder binds for nexus and vizier (bind at 10), with daevic getting the vrock wings also (D10, shoulder is consistent that way).

[AlienFromBeyond]

Well it looks like what it looked like was what it was. New akashic class called the Radiant was announced with a darn good looking art piece accompanying it. Will this class, and eventually the Shadewalker and Echo be getting preview docs like the Nexus?
https://lostspherespublishing.wordpress.com/2017/09/01/feel-the-love-shadow-lock-six-is-solved-the-radiant-is-revealed/
I'm interested in seeing how the Radiant compares to the Rajah. It sounds like Radiant may be more Vitalist to Rajah's Tactician, and there's certainly enough room for both (especially since Rajah is an initiator and Radiant isn't, already a huge difference!).

[Draacul]

Radiant will be a closed backer playtest right after the campaign funds, with more to follow.
Is it too much to request an open playtest?
Feedback is pretty limited even for something like Rajah open playtest,which is from Dreamscarred(which i assume provides free publicity).

[Ssalarn]

I'm interested in seeing how the Radiant compares to the Rajah. It sounds like Radiant may be more Vitalist to Rajah's Tactician, and there's certainly enough room for both (especially since Rajah is an initiator and Radiant isn't, already a huge difference!).

The radiant has actually been something I've been working on for a super long time (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r26e&page=5?Dreamscarred-Press-Introduces-Akashic-Mysteries#247), originally as the Vedist, so it has had a significant amount of time for refinements and adjustments in the basic framework, though I've had the opportunity to set up quite a few entirely new veils for it as part of this project.

Originally the idea was that it would be very much like the Vitalist, including an akashic collective that you created by investing essence in allies and tying them all into a network together, but I streamlined and simplified a lot of that into a new and unique class feature that builds on itself and isn't as "fiddly" as some of my older ideas were. It's still a half BAB "full caster" equivalent, though with fewer binds and veils than the vizier since it leans more on class features that also use its essence pool. It's primary function is as a healer and defensive buffer, though it does have a strong selection of control options and some decent offensive buffing as well. Older fiddly ideas I had like making it gain a bonus on saving throws against effects it draws out of allies have been replaced by simpler static options like having monk saves and getting to add its Wisdom bonus to certain Con-based abilities. It's also got a few compatible "pet" veils for players who like having a little minionmancy, most of which can also help add options to other classes like the vizier.

[Milo v3]

I was curious if Radiant was the new Vedist when I read the description on the kickstarter.

[Sayt]

Just backed myself, and reading through the Nexus, and holy ****balls the Nexus art is amazing. I'd seen it on the blog, but big and high def is a whole new thing.

[Ssalarn]

Just backed myself, and reading through the Nexus, and holy ****balls the Nexus art is amazing. I'd seen it on the blog, but big and high def is a whole new thing.

Yeah, I certainly agree! Vincent Coviello has been absolutely destroying it with his amazing art, cranking out high quality piece after high quality piece. Have you seen the iconic for the radiant class? (https://lostspherespublishing.wordpress.com/2017/09/01/feel-the-love-shadow-lock-six-is-solved-the-radiant-is-revealed/) That's also one of the new races written for the book. It's set to be a tome that's loaded with top-shelf art, tons of quality crunch, and some really fun and expansive fluff.

[Sayt]

Yeah, I certainly agree! Vincent Coviello has been absolutely destroying it with his amazing art, cranking out high quality piece after high quality piece. Have you seen the iconic for the radiant class? (https://lostspherespublishing.wordpress.com/2017/09/01/feel-the-love-shadow-lock-six-is-solved-the-radiant-is-revealed/) That's also one of the new races written for the book. It's set to be a tome that's loaded with top-shelf art, tons of quality crunch, and some really fun and expansive fluff.

Not yet, still working on the planar veils.


Speaking off, is it planned to do a set for each major outer plan, or is Co7S focusing on the four in alpha at the moment?

[Ssalarn]

Not yet, still working on the planar veils.


Speaking off, is it planned to do a set for each major outer plan, or is Co7S focusing on the four in alpha at the moment?

There's actually 5 (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lostspheres/city-of-seven-seraphs-a-planar-campaign-capstone-f/posts/1977305). There will be other veil sets in the book for the other akashic classes but only one of them will be planar themed, with the others themed around different concepts. I believe we're currently looking at like 115 veils in total, give or take a handful, with the bulk of the non-Nexus veils being part of the post-funding playtest packet.

That being said, while Co7S is going to be focused on roughly 6 planes (technically the genie set covers all 4 elemental planes but I'm inclined to treat it as 1 sub-plane set), odds are good that if/when Co7S succeeds we'll continue to support the Nexus and other akashic classes with new planar veil sets in future expansions until we've checked all the boxes there are to check.

[Draacul]

I believe we're currently looking at like 115 veils in total, give or take a handful
Looks suspiciously like Akashic Mysteries Expanded.
Not that there is anything wrong with it.

[Ssalarn]

Looks suspiciously like Akashic Mysteries Expanded.
Not that there is anything wrong with it.

Veilweaving as a subsystem clicks in really well with the kind of adventures that Co7S promotes, and one of the goals is to make it largely a stand-alone book. That includes having classes that can cover all the base party roles, so just by virtue of having those akashic classes and making sure they're properly supported we've ended up with a very robust selection of akashic options. The extreme accessibility of akashic magic, where literally any class can dip a toe in the system, is also nice since it means that the book provides even the most non-magical class access to some tricks.

It wouldn't really be wrong to consider this, at least in part, an Akashic Mysteries Expanded book though. AM had a lot of boxes to check; flight, unique movement, specific kinds of AoEs, a wide spread of boosters for various skills, etc. Since all of that is kind of out of the way, we got to embrace a lot more niche material and expand areas AM didn't cover as well. The new akashic options include planar travel, contingency abilities, ability theft, more ways to communicate with things you can't normally communicate with, more summons, more healing, and a whole array of other options. To an extent, when all is said and done Akashic Mysteries may end up looking more like the expansion book to Co7S rather than the other way around, particularly since Co7S has the benefit of a couple years of polish and refinement over Akashic Mysteries and will have everything you need to run the new akashic classes.

The important thing to note though is that City of Seven Seraphs is a lot more than an expansion for Akashic Mysteries. There's new psionic support, new feats, and a huge selection of GM options like adventure hooks, NPCs, rules for tying Co7S into existing campaigns, and basically everything else a campaign setting needs to provide a complete adventure experience. It's comparable to books like Cerulean Seas, Rhune: Dawn of Twilight, or the Aethera Campaign Setting and offers tons of goodies for players and GMs alike.

[beastofmideon]

Can anyone give me a clue on the shadow lock on the webpage. I am terrible at riddles. I am looking forward to more info on the planar ships. The campaign I am playing in is going planar and I think it would be fun to add these ships to the mix.

[Ssalarn]

Can anyone give me a clue on the shadow lock on the webpage. I am terrible at riddles. I am looking forward to more info on the planar ships. The campaign I am playing in is going planar and I think it would be fun to add these ships to the mix.

I haven't been very good at guessing where Christen is going with the riddles, but...

Six they came, Union’s sacred math,

She was the first to find the path,

She was second to walk the shade,

The third fought bravely with no blade,

He revealed the weavers-risen,

He found named the living prison,

Last to balance infinity,

And you must bear the final key,

The names across the hidden places,

Spoken through the Book of Faces.

If the Archweaver hears your cry,

Secrets revealed, all mystery dies.


I think they're either references to designers on the project or characters discussed in the Lost Spheres blog posts about the project. First to find the path seems like a clear Pathfinder reference, second to walk the shade probably refers to the shadewalker class I wrote for the book, fought bravely with no blade seems like a monk reference maybe? Revealed the weavers-risen seems like either a veilweaver reference or maybe has something to do with the veryx race, living prison probably refers to the new Akashic race he revealed where they're crystal people with evil outsiders trapped inside of them, and "last to balance infinity" is a numerology reference probably tied to the blog article from a couple weeks ago. That's about as far as I got deciphering that while waiting in line for the Gran Turismo demo here at PAX.

[Kaidinah]

Hey, look what snuck onto the campaign page!
New Classes: Nexus, Shadewalker/Eclipse, Radiant, Aethernaut. Revised and Expanded Classes: Echo, Aberrant (Aegis) and Theurge.

New races like the judow, and inevitable-spawn people influenced by kyton or the a fresh-look at the ceptu (from Epidemic Books Oathbound: Seven) a races of telekinetic invertibrates!
What could this Aethernaut be? And also, do I spy Aegis support!? This has me on the edge of my seat.

Also there is a Theurge. I wonder if it has any relation to Kobold Press's Theurge class? If so then it seems fans of Vancian casting will get some neat toys!

These Ceptu sound pretty cool too. Gotta love inhuman races.

[Ssalarn]

Hey, look what snuck onto the campaign page!
New Classes: Nexus, Shadewalker/Eclipse, Radiant, Aethernaut. Revised and Expanded Classes: Echo, Aberrant (Aegis) and Theurge.

New races like the judow, and inevitable-spawn people influenced by kyton or the a fresh-look at the ceptu (from Epidemic Books Oathbound: Seven) a races of telekinetic invertibrates!
What could this Aethernaut be? And also, do I spy Aegis support!? This has me on the edge of my seat.

Also there is a Theurge. I wonder if it has any relation to Kobold Press's Theurge class? If so then it seems fans of Vancian casting will get some neat toys!

These Ceptu sound pretty cool too. Gotta love inhuman races.

Today's blog post (https://lostspherespublishing.wordpress.com/2017/09/05/a-sky-full-of-stars-city-of-seven-seraphs-shadow-lock-infinity-classes/) from Lost Spheres also includes art for one of the new races, the mirrorkin, and some expanded details, including a description of the aethernaut class! "Aethernauts are warriors that glimpse the future and unleash unpredictable primordial forces from planar essence or from carried magic items. They rip reality with their weapons, harness planar phenomena, and navigate ley lines. All aethernauts are natural survivors in strange universes, skilled handlers of magic items, and experts on the planes!"

Everything except stretch goals is pretty much laid out at this point. 7 races, 7 classes, and a ton of material including archetypes, PrCs, feats, spells, psionic powers, and loads of GM goodies.

[Draacul]

7 races, 7 classes, and a ton of material including archetypes, PrCs, feats, spells, psionic powers, and loads of GM goodies.
I do wonder how they manage to fit all that in the measly 300 pages,especially with hundred-plus veils.

[Kaidinah]

I do wonder how they manage to fit all that in the measly 300 pages,especially with hundred-plus veils.That's a good question. They have a setting and a lot of crunch to stuff into that book.

Speaking of a lot of stuff, just look at that blog post! Thats a lot of stuff right there. Glad to sew details on these classes though. Aethernaut is not what I expected. This is a good thing though considering what the blog described was cooler than my expectations.

[beastofmideon]

Did I read correctly that they increased the page count to 400 pages. They are giving away the store!

[Bahumut]

The amount of content we're getting is positively insane! We're in the home stretch, so please remember to spread the word on social media, so we can make sure this wonderful project gets funded!

[Lost_Spheres]

Did I read correctly that they increased the page count to 400 pages. They are giving away the store!

When the team all got together we knew we needed to look at expanding page count and we are happy to confirm we have done just that! Remember, if we have our way this is ONLY the beginning.

[Ssalarn]

I do wonder how they manage to fit all that in the measly 300 pages,especially with hundred-plus veils.

My understanding is that Christen bumped it to 400 pages, and all the veils and akashic classes put together probably won't be more than about maybe 50 of those pages. The other classes, as I understand it, are a bit smaller as far as the pages they consume, so there should be a ton of room for lots of items, locations, NPCs, spells, powers, etc. I noticed on the Kickstarter comments page that there might even be some Spheres of Power / Spheres of Might support in the City? (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lostspheres/city-of-seven-seraphs-a-planar-campaign-capstone-f/comments) I don't know to what extent and I know keeping the book as simple and accessible as possible is a priority, as is ensuring that you don't need other books beyond the CRB to use the content it presents, but Christen is definitely trying to make it open to the most popular 3pp supplements as much as possible.



That's a good question. They have a setting and a lot of crunch to stuff into that book.

Speaking of a lot of stuff, just look at that blog post! Thats a lot of stuff right there. Glad to sew details on these classes though. Aethernaut is not what I expected. This is a good thing though considering what the blog described was cooler than my expectations.

I'm pretty excited for the aethernaut myself! As I understand it, the aethernaut is going to be one of the two full BAB classes and will be kind of like a Fighter/Psychic Warrior/Occultist mash-up, something of a planeswalking MacGyver, though my knowledge of the class is fairly limited and not a whole lot more expansive than anyone else's at this point.

I do know that at least one of the races will be an akashic native outsider like a lot of people have asked for, and at least 2 of the other races should have akashic alternate racial traits available. Basically, if you have a question about any of the akashic mechanics in the book, I can totally answer those :smalltongue: Other questions I'd need to refer to the other members of the team.

[Long_shanks]

I just backed the project (and am petitioning my gaming group to do the same). This project is beyond awesome and I can't wait for it to be completed.
Good luck with the rest of the campain.

[Mithril Leaf]

Will we be getting something Akashic that focuses heavily on buffing your allies?

[Draacul]

Will we be getting something Akashic that focuses heavily on buffing your allies?
That's Rajah,in playtest presently.You can't be focused on buffing much heavily.
But Radiant is apparently a thing,but whether he is better as buffer remains to be seen.

[NomGarret]

Heres's a text vs. table question on the Nexus: There are instances of the Nexus getting essence capacity increases in the table but no mention of such a class feature in the text.

[Bahumut]

Heres's a text vs. table question on the Nexus: There are instances of the Nexus getting essence capacity increases in the table but no mention of such a class feature in the text.

Wow, good catch, Nom! I can't speak for Ssalarn, but I'm 99% sure that the missing full description of Improved Essence Capacity was an oversight, and should be included. The Nexus appears to be the most capable veilweaver when it comes to essence capacity, gaining it earlier than the Guru, and even gaining the second and third increase sooner than the Vizier!

[beastofmideon]

This project is looking awesome! The page count was just raised to 400!

[Thealtruistorc]

Friendly reminder we still have $2.5k to obtain before this is a sure thing. Rope in friends, up your donations, do whatever it takes because this book isn't a sure thing at this point.

Seriously, folks.

[Bahumut]

Friendly reminder we still have $2.5k to obtain before this is a sure thing. Rope in friends, up your donations, do whatever it takes because this book isn't a sure thing at this point.

Seriously, folks.

It's honestly giving me anxiety how close-to-the-wire this one is getting...we are 115 PDF backers, or less than 50 hardcovers away at this point! One good suggestion I read somewhere was sharing at your FLGS, you never know who might be interested in a product like this!

[Thealtruistorc]

One good suggestion I read somewhere was sharing at your FLGS, you never know who might be interested in a product like this!

Just when I was wondering how to kill time tomorrow...

[Mithril Leaf]

So I'm personally quite interested in the Radiant, is there any more information (even if vague) about the companion or specific veils it is looking at getting?

[AlmaPenzare]

Hey Ssalarn, as we draw closer to the closing hour, I wanted to ask; it says on the kickstarter page the project won't happen if you don't hit the 28k goal. Is this true? It seems like so much work has already been done on the project it would be such a shame to throw it away if you're behind 1k

[Kaidinah]

Forum ate my post? Weird.

This book sounds like an absolute treasure chest. Did you guys see that fungus race? the Rhyzala? That explains the Radiant iconics's interesting appearance. I actually really look forward to this.

This bit makes me think the race may base future generation's appearance off whatever race is dominant in the area: "Rhyzala differentiate to to increase their successes interacting with the cultures and time periods they encounter."

[Lost_Spheres]

So I'm personally quite interested in the Radiant, is there any more information (even if vague) about the companion or specific veils it is looking at getting?

I like to tease so...

The companion feature's strength depends on bind location and essence investment.

My playtesters loved it.

Too vague?

[Draacul]

Hey Ssalarn, as we draw closer to the closing hour, I wanted to ask; it says on the kickstarter page the project won't happen if you don't hit the 28k goal. Is this true? It seems like so much work has already been done on the project it would be such a shame to throw it away if you're behind 1k
Historically,last 24 hours are really large.And i can't see them not selling essentially twenty books in sixty hours.
Especially books this good.It's like APG all over again.Remember when Paizo actually made good splatbooks?


The companion feature's strength depends on bind location and essence investment.

So this is a class feature and not,say,Title veils.Which says something already.
Even though i do want more of them Title veils!These are awesome!

[Lost_Spheres]

Wow, good catch, Nom! I can't speak for Ssalarn, but I'm 99% sure that the missing full description of Improved Essence Capacity was an oversight, and should be included. The Nexus appears to be the most capable veilweaver when it comes to essence capacity, gaining it earlier than the Guru, and even gaining the second and third increase sooner than the Vizier!

My guess is that he was unconsciously trying to stuff more awesome around his wordcount. We will get the ability text in there.

[Lost_Spheres]

Hey Ssalarn, as we draw closer to the closing hour, I wanted to ask; it says on the kickstarter page the project won't happen if you don't hit the 28k goal. Is this true? It seems like so much work has already been done on the project it would be such a shame to throw it away if you're behind 1k

Yes, Kickstarter is an all or nothing platform. If we don't fund for some reason it would be... very unfortunate... given the amounts of money we have already dedicated to art, content, graphic design and editing. Fortunately with a little more spreading of the word, we might not have to travel that road. :smallsmile:

[Lost_Spheres]

Historically,last 24 hours are really large.And i can't see them not selling essentially twenty books in sixty hours.
Especially books this good.It's like APG all over again.Remember when Paizo actually made good splatbooks?

So this is a class feature and not,say,Title veils.Which says something already.
Even though i do want more of them Title veils!These are awesome!

Veilweaving is a class feature. Here I go being Sphinx-ish. But to further confuse the issue what if I said you could invest essence in the companion through 2 different channels?

[Ssalarn]

Will we be getting something Akashic that focuses heavily on buffing your allies?
The Radiant has an entire class feature centered around defensive party buffs, as well as a variety of buffing veils.


Wow, good catch, Nom! I can't speak for Ssalarn, but I'm 99% sure that the missing full description of Improved Essence Capacity was an oversight, and should be included. The Nexus appears to be the most capable veilweaver when it comes to essence capacity, gaining it earlier than the Guru, and even gaining the second and third increase sooner than the Vizier!

Definitely a mistake there, Christen and I will get it fixed. The Nexus gets 3 capacity buffs as described in the table.


Hey Ssalarn, as we draw closer to the closing hour, I wanted to ask; it says on the kickstarter page the project won't happen if you don't hit the 28k goal. Is this true? It seems like so much work has already been done on the project it would be such a shame to throw it away if you're behind 1k

It is unfortunately true, but I think we're on pace to make it at this point!

[Draacul]

Veilweaving is a class feature. Here I go being Sphinx-ish. But to further confuse the issue what if I said you could invest essence in the companion through 2 different channels?
The only thing missing is some manifesting and i'm sold.
What?It's not too much a stretch after Rajah's full veilweaving and full initiating.
"The Radiant has an entire class feature centered around defensive party buffs, as well as a variety of buffing veils."
This does sound suspiciously like titles.

[Ssalarn]

So I'm personally quite interested in the Radiant, is there any more information (even if vague) about the companion or specific veils it is looking at getting?


Let's see... I teased a few of the veils from one of its sets earlier in this thread, but it will have several nature-themed veils, including a veil with a bind that can whisk you away into a tree you set up as a "regeneration chamber" when you're mortally wounded. Companions it has available through veils include (but may not be limited to) unicorns, shambling mounds, treants, and tiny angels. It's pretty essence intensive, but if you want to play a healer with one uber-pet, I've found that using your Vivification class feature, Shape Veil, and maxing essence on the companion veil itself leads to a pretty impressive and extremely durable pet monster. I've also tried some fun stuff like using Shared Veil to turn my treant into the center of an expanded channel energy burst, but that's technically not too different than stuff you could do with AM. There are some really useful new buffing auras that work great on the larger pets though. The radiant's new veils also include a few different ways to raise the dead, from a reincarnation ability that can auto-revive the radiant a limited number of times per week (and still be manually used on an ally) to an effect sort of like breath of life. Those are in addition to the classes built in condition removal, resurrection, and other buff/healing options.


The only thing missing is some manifesting and i'm sold.
What?It's not too much a stretch after Rajah's full veilweaving and full initiating.
"The Radiant has an entire class feature centered around defensive party buffs, as well as a variety of buffing veils."
This does sound suspiciously like titles.

Considering the fact that the radiant was something I originally announced and worked on under the name Vedist a couple years ago, it's more like Titles are suspiciously like Vivifications :smalltongue:

But the radiant can invest essence directly into their allies for 1 major base effect and then customize that effect further with selectable buffs that "ride" on the base effect without requiring additional investment, and has a significant pool to draw on for essence.

[Draacul]

but it will have several nature-themed veils
Quick question:Do you actually get control over that treant?Because it doesn't say so in the veil.


But the radiant can invest essence directly into their allies for 1 major base effect and then customize that effect further with selectable buffs that "ride" on the base effect without requiring additional investment, and has a significant pool to draw on for essence.
But no manifesting or initiating.Oh well.Still has uses,i guess.Player in my campaign is playing a Medic for some reasons.Which might or might not include Bladewolf-shaped ambulance.

[Ssalarn]

Quick question:Do you actually get control over that treant?Because it doesn't say so in the veil.


Yes. For trimming space there will be general companion rules in the final document instead of having to repeat "The treant understands any language you speak and follows your orders to the best of its ability. " for every single companion veil. That'll all be wrapped into the general rules for akasha going forward.

[Draacul]

Yes. For trimming space there will be general companion rules in the final document instead of having to repeat "The treant understands any language you speak and follows your orders to the best of its ability. " for every single companion veil. That'll all be wrapped into the general rules for akasha going forward.
Neato.CR8 piece of wood at level 7 might actually be worth two feats.And apparently there are more of them pet veils coming?
Nice!

[stack]

Neato.CR8 piece of wood at level 7 might actually be worth two feats.And apparently there are more of them pet veils coming?
Nice!

Keep in mind the preview versions are not final. CR above character level pets seem unlikely in the final.

[Draacul]

Keep in mind the preview versions are not final. CR above character level pets seem unlikely in the final.
In this specific case,i have no problem with it.The thing is the size of a house(so will not fit in a house),has DPR of 3rd level character and...well,it's a pile of hitpoints.
At least it's not COMPLETELY useless like that silly zombie from a ring.If only there were two...then at least you could've use them as backup dancers.
Update:i've been told how to make two zombie back-up dancers with that ring.I withdraw my complaints.

[Ssalarn]

Keep in mind the preview versions are not final. CR above character level pets seem unlikely in the final.

Excellent point. While all of the veil abilities and creatures are evaluated individually and not just by CR, we'll be making updates and adjustments accordingly for all of the preview veils to ensure they're well-balanced for the final product.


In this specific case,i have no problem with it.The thing is the size of a house(so will not fit in a house),has DPR of 3rd level character and...well,it's a pile of hitpoints.
At least it's not COMPLETELY useless like that silly zombie from a ring.If only there were two...then at least you could've use them as backup dancers.

The zombie actually tracks right alongside an animal companion with more immunities, equivalent offense, debuffing, and slightly fewer hit points. It's far from completely useless.

[Sayt]

And funded! >Fires the confetti cannons<

[Draacul]

And funded! >Fires the confetti cannons<
Planar feats would be nice though.Manual of the Planes and Planar Handbook were...disappointing.

[Kaidinah]

Hot damn! Its funded!

[AlmaPenzare]

Woo! Congratulations everyone on the team. I was starting to get worried, so I was telling my friends and friends of friends to back it, damn happy to see all your work will pay off. So hyped!

[Ssalarn]

Woo! Congratulations everyone on the team. I was starting to get worried, so I was telling my friends and friends of friends to back it, damn happy to see all your work will pay off. So hyped!

There's still 52 hours to go! We could potentially still hit additional planar magic or some of the other stretch goals!

[SyrusRayne]

I know I'd certainly love to see, well... Just about all of the stretch-goals met. Those feats in particular... And planar psionics! And... And...

[Ssalarn]

I know I'd certainly love to see, well... Just about all of the stretch-goals met. Those feats in particular... And planar psionics! And... And...

I definitely know the feeling! We're a bit of a stretch from expanded planar psionics (though I'd love us to hit it), but the planar feats should be achievable if we have 1 more day like today.

[Lost_Spheres]

Hot damn! Its funded!

Thank you to all the backers and supporters out there! This is going to be awesome!

[Draacul]

I definitely know the feeling! We're a bit of a stretch from expanded planar psionics (though I'd love us to hit it), but the planar feats should be achievable if we have 1 more day like today.
It does seem that i'll get my feats.It's not even the last 24 hours.

[N. Jolly]

Hey yo, for those of you who want more info, we're doing an AMA over on reddit for the book (https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_RPG/comments/6yvnln/hi_i_am_christen_n_sowards_creator_of_the_city_of/), so come check it out!

[Ssalarn]

Looks like we just hit $30k for planar magic by Wolfgang Baur!

[Draacul]

Looks like we just hit $30k for planar magic by Wolfgang Baur!
Feats are getting closer and closer!

[SyrusRayne]

Seeing as how I appear to have missed the AMA by minutes - this is why you never read the comments, folks - I had a question of my own!

So, this book covers a broad swathe of fascinating concepts, but there are noted absences even in such a grand design as this (a good thing, in terms of the book not being infinitely long!) Are there any plans for supplemental products down the line, such as Planes-oriented Path of War archetypes and things?

[Ssalarn]

Seeing as how I appear to have missed the AMA by minutes - this is why you never read the comments, folks - I had a question of my own!

So, this book covers a broad swathe of fascinating concepts, but there are noted absences even in such a grand design as this (a good thing, in terms of the book not being infinitely long!) Are there any plans for supplemental products down the line, such as Planes-oriented Path of War archetypes and things?


I can't speak with any certainty about Path of War, but I know we've discussed supporting both Spheres of Power and Spheres of Might. And Christen definitely intends to keep this ball rolling with supporting product lines, so I wouldn't say anything is off the table right now.

[Todd Stewart]

I'm so very happy this funded :D

[Cyrocloud]

I'm so very happy this funded :D

I'm going to be so happy when we get planar psionics.

[vilor]

This Aethernaut art is awesome! Check out the website lostspherespublishing.wordpress.com

[AlienFromBeyond]

I'm going to be so happy when we get planar psionics.
There is no way another $6k is showing up in the 10 or so hours that are left.

[Draacul]

There is no way another $6k is showing up in the 10 or so hours that are left.
But planar feats will be here,so this is something.

[Lost_Spheres]

There is no way another $6k is showing up in the 10 or so hours that are left.

To clarify... The Planar Psionics section was getting MORE content from Jeremy at 38. But it WILL still be there regardless.

[Draacul]

To clarify... The Planar Psionics section was getting MORE content from Jeremy at 38. But it WILL still be there regardless.
The news i can use!

[Ssalarn]

Just as an FYI to anyone watching in the final hours, the $70 pledge level ended prematurely for some reason and has been added back in as the "Blackblade" funding level for the final stretch here. That's the pledge level that includes the hardcover and .pdf without the back catalogue of Lost Spheres products.

[meemaas]

Fudge. I was intending to pledge but kept forgetting. Will there be a chance to get in late?

[Ssalarn]

Fudge. I was intending to pledge but kept forgetting. Will there be a chance to get in late?

Yes, there should be an opportunity to preorder on Backerkit up in the next couple of days.

[meemaas]

Beautiful. I mean I could wait for the release, but I want to see the playtest materials while we wait!!!

[Manyasone]

Yes, there should be an opportunity to preorder on Backerkit up in the next couple of days.

That is good news. I also didn't make it in time. Now i still have the opportunity to back it. Will a link be provided?

[Ssalarn]

That is good news. I also didn't make it in time. Now i still have the opportunity to back it. Will a link be provided?

As soon as I know it's up I'll make sure a link gets posted here and on Paizo, if Christen doesn't beat me to it.

[Lost_Spheres]

Fudge. I was intending to pledge but kept forgetting. Will there be a chance to get in late?

No, we are posting BackerKit Pre-Order links shortly.

[Lost_Spheres]

Beautiful. I mean I could wait for the release, but I want to see the playtest materials while we wait!!!


Pre-Orders on BackerKit are here! (https://co7s.backerkit.com/hosted_preorders)

[Tariyan Draegr]

Will preordering give us access to the playtest. This looks super interesting and the art is to die for, so I'm excited either way.

[khadgar567]

Will preordering give us access to the playtest. This looks super interesting and the art is to die for, so I'm excited either way.
probably not but wait for official word.

[Ssalarn]

Will preordering give us access to the playtest. This looks super interesting and the art is to die for, so I'm excited either way.

I've reached out to Christen to try and get an answer for this question. If he doesn't pop in and reply directly, I'll let you know as soon as I hear back from him.

[Lost_Spheres]

probably not but wait for official word.

I will be sending pre-orders on BackerKit playtest documents but the process is a little less streamlined and has a few more steps, so the distribution will a be bit slower.

[Mithril Leaf]

So are there any more playtest documents actually being sent out to backers besides the Nexus one? I see that Radiant was allegedly going to be sent out, but I backed and never got it.

[khadgar567]

So are there any more playtest documents actually being sent out to backers besides the Nexus one? I see that Radiant was allegedly going to be sent out, but I backed and never got it.
not that i know one but i like re grab my nexus one as well as radiant one if there are ways to do it.

[Lost_Spheres]

So are there any more playtest documents actually being sent out to backers besides the Nexus one? I see that Radiant was allegedly going to be sent out, but I backed and never got it.

Radiant will be out very shortly. Sorry about the delay, we added a couple veils in October and ran a second round of alpha playtests. Backers should see it very soon. The feedback has been very positive.

[Ssalarn]

not that i know one but i like re grab my nexus one as well as radiant one if there are ways to do it.


There've been a few minor formatting and organizational fixes that aren't reflected in this doc, but backers can always re-download their alpha playtest copy of the Nexus here (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lostspheres/city-of-seven-seraphs-a-planar-campaign-capstone-f/posts/1977305).

[meemaas]

Radiant will be out very shortly. Sorry about the delay, we added a couple veils in October and ran a second round of alpha playtests. Backers should see it very soon. The feedback has been very positive.

What about the people who backed late through backerkit? My payment has been confirmed but I have not received access to anything yet.

[Lost_Spheres]

What about the people who backed late through backerkit? My payment has been confirmed but I have not received access to anything yet.

Meemaas, Thank you so much for helping us see this issue! BackerKit is entirely new to us and there was a report process we didn't have working correctly. It should be fixed now and you should be seeing a notice from DriveThruRPG or RPGNow on how to download.

[Mithril Leaf]

Radiant will be out very shortly. Sorry about the delay, we added a couple veils in October and ran a second round of alpha playtests. Backers should see it very soon. The feedback has been very positive.

Any sort of update on an ETA? I'd really quite like to be able to give it a look see.

[meemaas]

Meemaas, Thank you so much for helping us see this issue! BackerKit is entirely new to us and there was a report process we didn't have working correctly. It should be fixed now and you should be seeing a notice from DriveThruRPG or RPGNow on how to download.

Thank you very much for the prompt response. It showed up in my email right away and I've finally been able to look it over. The material looks awesome and I'm looking forward to the finished product already.

[Mithril Leaf]

Radiant will be out very shortly. Sorry about the delay, we added a couple veils in October and ran a second round of alpha playtests. Backers should see it very soon. The feedback has been very positive.

So hey, is Very Shortly up yet? I'd really quite like to read the Radiant Playtest, and I'm sure some other backers would as well.

[khadgar567]

So hey, is Very Shortly up yet? I'd really quite like to read the Radiant Playtest, and I'm sure some other backers would as well.
Is been month after the post about soon in i realy hate to see radiant playtest as christmas gift in my mail box

[Quarian Rex]

Thanks for giving this a bump. I completely missed the kickstarter and so just made a pre-order. AM is a glorious sub-system but criminally under supported. Having a book that provides massive AM/psionic/etc. support while adding Planescape 2.0? Holy crapsnacks, count me in!

[Ssalarn]

So hey, is Very Shortly up yet? I'd really quite like to read the Radiant Playtest, and I'm sure some other backers would as well.

I gave Christen a bump to let him know this was being asked about. I know that he's basically going from con season straight into holiday season and he wanted to present an offering like the Nexus release, with layout and art applied, but that requires coordination from at least 3 individuals. I suspect it's just caught in layout at the moment.


Thanks for giving this a bump. I completely missed the kickstarter and so just made a pre-order. AM is a glorious sub-system but criminally under supported. Having a book that provides massive AM/psionic/etc. support while adding Planescape 2.0? Holy crapsnacks, count me in!

There will be almost as much AM support in this book as in the original release. Full rules reprints with updates, three new classes, scores of new veils, new akashic race options, and new passions, philosophies, and mystic attunements.

There might even be new daeva, though no promises there. It's a huge book and akashic magic, while a significant part of the City, its NPCs, and even some of its organizations, is really only a small part of it. With the other 4 (I think, if Christen said something different don't hold me to that) classes using psionics or stand-alone abilities and all of the non-akashic planar monsters being contributed to the book, I don't know that there's much space left outside of the items already mentioned.

[Matthias]

Damn, this is cool.

[Lost_Spheres]

Sorry to keep you all waiting so long. We released a plain-text playtest version so you can start playing the mechanics. We are very happy with them and will be adding a nicer version once it is available.

[Milo v3]

Is Radiant the class that was originally the old Vedist concept?

[Ssalarn]

Is Radiant the class that was originally the old Vedist concept?

That's the one.

[AlienFromBeyond]

Looks like you've got some copy and paste syndrome in the Radiant doc from the Nexus. The elemental race FCBs mention Planar Detonation, a Nexus class feature.

[khadgar567]

Priestess’​ ​Clasp​ ​of​ ​Rebirth
I think i found a mistake reincarnate viel instead of reincrnate spell

Priestess’​ ​Clasp​ ​of​ ​RebirthDescriptors:​ ​noneClass:​ ​Guru,​ ​Radiant,​ ​Vizier
Slot:​ ​Neck
Saving​ ​Throw:​ ​none
She had no name, but was beloved by the rest, in all her forms and infinite appearances, as she danced with the way of Rebirth.
Shaping this veil allows you to cast disguise self as an at-will spell-like ability with a caster level equal toyour veilweaving level.
Essence:​ ​For each point of essence invested in this veil, you gain a +1 insight bonus on Bluff and Disguisechecks.Chakra​ ​Bind​ ​(Neck):​ ​[G14,​ ​R12,​ ​V14]​ ​Binding this veil to your Neck chakra grants you the power of truerebirth. You may spend 10 minutes to restore a creature to life in a new form as though casting areincarnate spell. You do not need to provide a material component for this effect, but you take 2 pointsof Constitution drain that cannot be healed by any means until it heals naturally after 1 week. For eachpoint of essence invested in this veil, you reduce the time to use this ability by 1 minute (minimum 1standard action). In addition, once per week if you die while this veil is shaped, you are automaticallyreturned to life 1d4 rounds after your death as though by a reincarnate veil. You may reshape and bindveils as part of this rebirth, just as though you had 8 hours rest and completed any normal preparationsfor shaping and binding veils.

[NomGarret]

Yay! Radiant's here to brighten my day off!

So a question on Criniere of Warding. The unlimited healing jumped out at me. I realize this doesn't come online until levels 9-12, where it's less of an issue, but was this supposed to only affect dropped targets?

Edit: Another question. Does Akashic Bond count as a single receptacle for effects like Enhanced Capacity, or does each target count individually? Namely, do I have to specify Akashic Bond: Dave the Daevic? This also affects the temp hp granted by Akashic Bond. If I invest the essence in Akashic Bond: Dave the Daevic, who then takes damage, and I reinvest in Akashic Bond: Nina the Nexus, does Nina get a full temp hp pool presuming it's the first time that day, or is it considered re-investing in a general Akashic Bond?

[Mithril Leaf]

Edit: Another question. Does Akashic Bond count as a single receptacle for effects like Enhanced Capacity, or does each target count individually? Namely, do I have to specify Akashic Bond: Dave the Daevic? This also affects the temp hp granted by Akashic Bond. If I invest the essence in Akashic Bond: Dave the Daevic, who then takes damage, and I reinvest in Akashic Bond: Nina the Nexus, does Nina get a full temp hp pool presuming it's the first time that day, or is it considered re-investing in a general Akashic Bond?

Also if it's the later, may I request the ability to have it count as another creature invested in per point of essence? IE: At one essence you give Dave a +2 insight bonus to damage rolls and at two essence you give both Dave and Nina a +2 insight bonus to damage and also DR/-.

[Ssalarn]

Priestess’​ ​Clasp​ ​of​ ​Rebirth
I think i found a mistake reincarnate viel instead of reincrnate spell

Thanks for the catch. I'll take care of that while I'm correcting the copy/paste issue with the FCBs.


Yay! Radiant's here to brighten my day off!

So a question on Criniere of Warding. The unlimited healing jumped out at me. I realize this doesn't come online until levels 9-12, where it's less of an issue, but was this supposed to only affect dropped targets?

I could have sworn there was a per target limit on that ability like most of the akashic healing options. Let me double-check with Christen and make sure that the mistake is on my end before I give a final answer, but I believe it should have a "1+veilweaving modifier uses per creature" or similar limitation on it.



Edit: Another question. Does Akashic Bond count as a single receptacle for effects like Enhanced Capacity, or does each target count individually? Namely, do I have to specify Akashic Bond: Dave the Daevic? This also affects the temp hp granted by Akashic Bond. If I invest the essence in Akashic Bond: Dave the Daevic, who then takes damage, and I reinvest in Akashic Bond: Nina the Nexus, does Nina get a full temp hp pool presuming it's the first time that day, or is it considered re-investing in a general Akashic Bond?

Akashic Bond is a single class feature, so if you have Enhanced Capacity for it, it raises the total capacity of Akashic Bond, not just one instance of it. So if your normal capacity is 2 per creature and you apply Enhanced Capacity, it's 3 per creature. The temp hp rules in general were intended to ensure that the temp hp veil functions remained as prepared abilities and go off the first time the veilweaver invests any of their essence for the day, so a combat swap like that would only grant the 1 temp hp and they'd have to let the normal course of time charge them back up to full.

The general flow of the class is set up so that when you start out with your allies fully buffed, they're going to be able to absorb some damage and shake off negative effects more easily, leaving you free to use your control or buffing veils. In tougher fights where you're reclaiming essence to remove status effects or because the temp hp pool is exhausted and you want to dedicate that resource towards healing or control veils, you should shift into being more and more individually powerful as the essence you reclaim from your allies is returned to invest in veils. Basically as your Akashic Bond benefits run down, your veils and other akashic abilities should be getting more and more powerful. Then when the fight's over, you can reinvest into Akashic Bond so that your allies can start generating those hit points back up for the next encounter.

[NomGarret]

That's how I figured it would work, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't simply projecting how I would have designed it. As far as regenerating the temp hp then, any ally with a bond on them would simultaneously build back up, so 3 allies with 1 essence apiece would come back to full in 5 minutes whereas 1 ally with 3 essence would take 15 minutes. Is that correct?

[Mithril Leaf]

Akashic Bond is a single class feature, so if you have Enhanced Capacity for it, it raises the total capacity of Akashic Bond, not just one instance of it. So if your normal capacity is 2 per creature and you apply Enhanced Capacity, it's 3 per creature. The temp hp rules in general were intended to ensure that the temp hp veil functions remained as prepared abilities and go off the first time the veilweaver invests any of their essence for the day, so a combat swap like that would only grant the 1 temp hp and they'd have to let the normal course of time charge them back up to full.

The general flow of the class is set up so that when you start out with your allies fully buffed, they're going to be able to absorb some damage and shake off negative effects more easily, leaving you free to use your control or buffing veils. In tougher fights where you're reclaiming essence to remove status effects or because the temp hp pool is exhausted and you want to dedicate that resource towards healing or control veils, you should shift into being more and more individually powerful as the essence you reclaim from your allies is returned to invest in veils. Basically as your Akashic Bond benefits run down, your veils and other akashic abilities should be getting more and more powerful. Then when the fight's over, you can reinvest into Akashic Bond so that your allies can start generating those hit points back up for the next encounter.

I like the idea here, but find it unfortunate the Vivifications require you to keep the essence invested in those allies to continue receiving their benefit. Seems somewhat counter to the intended path that you actively weaken your allies when you are removing their debuffs.

[Ssalarn]

That's how I figured it would work, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't simply projecting how I would have designed it. As far as regenerating the temp hp then, any ally with a bond on them would simultaneously build back up, so 3 allies with 1 essence apiece would come back to full in 5 minutes whereas 1 ally with 3 essence would take 15 minutes. Is that correct?

Correct. Anyone benefiting "recharges" simultaneously.

[khadgar567]

By the way whats the mabs class since radiant is for titania?

[Ssalarn]

By the way whats the mabs class since radiant is for titania?

As the queen of air and darkness, Mab would probably be an Eclipse to Titania's Radiant.

[Biapolis]

Salutations. Just stumbled onto this stuff. I am a huge fan of AM, so that alone gets a preorder from me, lol. Radiant seems right up my ally too, always a fan of support classes. Can't wait to check out the playtest, as well as the full release when all is said and done.

[AlienFromBeyond]

I see the Radiant FCBs got fixed, which is nice, so I redownloaded the updated version. I think the Undine FCB may be too strong. The fact that it only operates on just the descriptor and not also damage type means you should be able to use it with Storm Gauntlets and increase the electric, sonic, and cold damage each, since the veil as a whole has the cold descriptor while doing three different instances of damage at once. A slight change to "​increase​ ​the​ ​hit​ ​point​ ​healing​ ​or​ ​cold damage of​ ​the​ ​veil’s​ ​abilities​ ​by​ ​1​ ​point" should fix it right up, though I think a couple of the new veils in the Nexus doc have the cold descriptor without doing cold damage so that may break more than it fixes. I'm also not a fan of requiring the healing descriptor if using the FCB in a support capacity, as none of the veils in Akashic Mysteries or the Nexus preview have it, limiting it to just Heart of Yggdrasil (which only actually heals at level 18), Sparkling Alicorn (which doesn't actually heal, it only gives Temporary HP and so wouldn't be affected), and Unicorn Feathering (the only one it is worth using, but it massively increases its power by adding your level to the Fast Healing done).

[NomGarret]

What update? I’m not finding anything.

[Long_shanks]

What update? I’m not finding anything.

On the Kickstater page, under the Updates section (I think that is what it's called, but I'm not sure since my page is in French. Its the third one, between FAQ and Comments). There you have all the informations from the devs and the playtest docs.

[khadgar567]

On the Kickstater page, under the Updates section (I think that is what it's called, but I'm not sure since my page is in French. Its the third one, between FAQ and Comments). There you have all the informations from the devs and the playtest docs.
looks like your copy mixed with swaeau( nick named french bastard)'s so sorry mate

[calyst]

So one of my players testing this one had some feedback I am passing along, he was disappointed that going deep into a convergence didn't grant some kind of bonus to the associated veils. I agreed it feels like a missed opportunity for some thematic set bonus type stuff.

[khadgar567]

So one of my players testing this one had some feedback I am passing along, he was disappointed that going deep into a convergence didn't grant some kind of bonus to the associated veils. I agreed it feels like a missed opportunity for some thematic set bonus type stuff.
Agreed themetic set bonuses would be nice.

[NomGarret]

I, for one, can take or leave set bonuses. Doing without them leaves more room for refluffing and eases veil variety. It does a good enough job already of steering readers towards thematic choices, there’s little need to add mechanical impetus on top of that.

[Ssalarn]

So one of my players testing this one had some feedback I am passing along, he was disappointed that going deep into a convergence didn't grant some kind of bonus to the associated veils. I agreed it feels like a missed opportunity for some thematic set bonus type stuff.

That was actually intentional, as we wanted multi-convergence characters to be just as viable as someone who dedicated to a convergence. That's why they're written so that the resistances and such all stack. Tying the convergences too tightly to the associated veil sets means that you pretty much have to let your convergence dictate your veils so you can get the best mechanical benefits, and we wanted to leave the options a lot more open than that, so that if you wanted to play a tiefling whose soul is a gateway to the Hells but who girds himself in Angelic Armaments to fight against evil enemies and resist his very nature, the class would support that without "punishing" the player for making a suboptimal choice. Even our iconic is a mix-and-match Nexus, which would be kind of misleading at a fundamental level if dedicating to a convergence was the hands down best way to play.

The veil sets also naturally compliment each other, so the biggest benefit to dedicating to a theme comes from the natural interactions from the veils. For example, in the Genie's Ambitions set Djinni's Turban + Marid's Sanadils lets you do a sky-dive elbow drop and potentially drown your opponent, Shahzada's Dissolution + Pasha's Crushing Gauntlets lets you use a blast of water to bull rush someone into a stone surface and then blow the surface up around them, Shaitan's Earthen Armor boosts the power of the Heart of the Efreet bind by changing it from fire to lava, and Voice of the Janni boosts the effectiveness of the Suli's Sash by increasing your saves against relevant effects and giving you the ability to charm elementals. All of the various veil sets are written so that the veils aren't just useful individually, but also so that the more of a set you use the more combination abilities and powers, or the more ways to set the conditions for your veils yourself in the case of veils like Belt of Woven Gold and Halo of Light, the stronger you get exponentially.


I, for one, can take or leave set bonuses. Doing without them leaves more room for refluffing and eases veil variety. It does a good enough job already of steering readers towards thematic choices, there’s little need to add mechanical impetus on top of that.

Also, pretty much all of this.


I see the Radiant FCBs got fixed, which is nice, so I redownloaded the updated version. I think the Undine FCB may be too strong. The fact that it only operates on just the descriptor and not also damage type means you should be able to use it with Storm Gauntlets and increase the electric, sonic, and cold damage each, since the veil as a whole has the cold descriptor while doing three different instances of damage at once. A slight change to "​increase​ ​the​ ​hit​ ​point​ ​healing​ ​or​ ​cold damage of​ ​the​ ​veil’s​ ​abilities​ ​by​ ​1​ ​point" should fix it right up, though I think a couple of the new veils in the Nexus doc have the cold descriptor without doing cold damage so that may break more than it fixes. I'm also not a fan of requiring the healing descriptor if using the FCB in a support capacity, as none of the veils in Akashic Mysteries or the Nexus preview have it, limiting it to just Heart of Yggdrasil (which only actually heals at level 18), Sparkling Alicorn (which doesn't actually heal, it only gives Temporary HP and so wouldn't be affected), and Unicorn Feathering (the only one it is worth using, but it massively increases its power by adding your level to the Fast Healing done).

Thank you for the feedback! I'll review the FCBs you called out and see if we can't tweak them a bit to address those issues.


Salutations. Just stumbled onto this stuff. I am a huge fan of AM, so that alone gets a preorder from me, lol. Radiant seems right up my ally too, always a fan of support classes. Can't wait to check out the playtest, as well as the full release when all is said and done.

Thank you! If you haven't already preordered, you can do so here (https://co7s.backerkit.com/hosted_preorders). You should get access to the alpha documents for both the Nexus and the Radiant shortly after your preorder goes through. If you have any issues, let us know and we'll do our best to get them sorted out for you.

[NomGarret]

Here's an order of operations question on Akashic Bond. Does any essence reclaimed and invested into a save-boosting receptacle (Criniere of Warding, Heart of Ygdrassil, Will of the Daeva, etc.) apply before the saving throw for any incoming condition? It's all part of the same swift action, so I wasn't sure.

Extra essence is a must-have feat for pretty much any veilweaver, and the new ones are no different. The Radiant, though, wants it at 1st level almost every time. They actually have somewhere to put it all.

I worried about the Nexus not getting full essence progression since they have so many veils and want to occasionally burn essence, but then reading the new veils very few of them encourage you to keep a lot of essence invested all the time. A problem I ran into with my vizier was how much I needed several veils powered up to operate. Pestilence Cloak is great, but I had to keep it fully invested since it affected my defense, mobility, and offense (boosting my Stare of the Ghaele.) The Nexus appears to have a lot fewer such veils and veil-combos, and a lot more that are fine with the base ability and binds and investing essence situationally. Boatman's Ferry, for example, only needs essence when you need extra speed.

There's plenty of great new veils for Seer Viziers to share with allies, but one did stand out: Banelight Vortices. Is it just me, or is this strictly better than Riven Darts?

Anyways, this is as much a mix of thoughts as questions, but there you have it.

[Biapolis]

There's plenty of great new veils for Seer Viziers to share with allies, but one did stand out: Banelight Vortices. Is it just me, or is this strictly better than Riven Darts?

Well, Riven Darts does fire more shots, but depending on what you are targeting it may still deal more damage. I find this an acceptable trade off, as it keeps a niche for Riven Darts [fodder clear] while giving new laser veils.


Also, on an unrelated topic, I was curious if there were any plans for an archetype/feat that changes the Veilweaving Modefier for Radiants. Mostly because I love the concept of an Alicorn [frok DSP's Bloodforge] running around in the Unicorn's Caparison set. But that Wis penalty they have hurts for those saving throws/per Veilweaving modefier effects. I mean, the concept is still cool enough to try to get to work, just would take a lot more work just playing a Vizier. Not as good support but it would work. Lol.

[calyst]

On Radiant noticed something a bit strange, it gets 8 veils shaped at higher levels but only has 6 slots on its veil list, even assuming a twinveil feat that leaves them with 1 extra veil shaped over what they can use.

[NomGarret]

They also get some veils that can be shaped to chest and shoulders. The chest binds can't be accessed through an Access X Chakra feat, but they're mostly lesser versions of the body binds, so you're better off doing Twin Veil for those anyway. Either way, this doesn't become an issue until your last two feats.

[Biapolis]

Huh, that is interesting. I didn't notice, but they don't seem to have any veils shaped to the feet veil. That is rather interesting. Unless they are just not revealed yet. And ya, the Veil List is organized by only the Chakra slots they naturally bind, and there are 4 slots that they don't naturally bind, and 3 of those can be picked up with feats.

[calyst]

Yeah you could use shape veil and bind via Access * Slot to pick up the missing ones, but doing that intrinsically get you a shaped veil from the shape veil feat and would still leave at least 1 shaped veil from Radiant with nothing to put it on.

[NomGarret]

No, you can still shape the native ones, you just need to spend feats if you want to bind them all.

[Biapolis]

No, you can still shape the native ones, you just need to spend feats if you want to bind them all.

This. They can shape to every slot [although I don't think they have any veils that can be shaped to the feet slot on their list yet], but they just can't bind them without feats.

[Lost_Spheres]

I was curious if there were any plans for an archetype/feat that changes the Veilweaving Modefier for Radiants. Mostly because I love the concept of an Alicorn [frok DSP's Bloodforge] running around in the Unicorn's Caparison set. But that Wis penalty they have hurts for those saving throws/per Veilweaving modefier effects. I mean, the concept is still cool enough to try to get to work, just would take a lot more work just playing a Vizier. Not as good support but it would work. Lol.

We will look into this. There are already some Parity specific veils for the Steamwalkers and it would make sense that their "lifeforce technicians" could operate off of INT. We might not have the count left for that section BUT the veilweaving response has been so good we are looking at another possible expansion in addition to the content on Co7S.

[Ssalarn]

Here's an order of operations question on Akashic Bond. Does any essence reclaimed and invested into a save-boosting receptacle (Criniere of Warding, Heart of Ygdrassil, Will of the Daeva, etc.) apply before the saving throw for any incoming condition? It's all part of the same swift action, so I wasn't sure.

You can apply any reclaimed essence bonuses before making the saving throw, if you so choose.



Extra essence is a must-have feat for pretty much any veilweaver, and the new ones are no different. The Radiant, though, wants it at 1st level almost every time. They actually have somewhere to put it all.

The radiant does love any essence they can get their hands on, which is pretty much just the nature of any ability that fluctuates based on party size but is balanced around individual applications.



I worried about the Nexus not getting full essence progression since they have so many veils and want to occasionally burn essence, but then reading the new veils very few of them encourage you to keep a lot of essence invested all the time. A problem I ran into with my vizier was how much I needed several veils powered up to operate. Pestilence Cloak is great, but I had to keep it fully invested since it affected my defense, mobility, and offense (boosting my Stare of the Ghaele.) The Nexus appears to have a lot fewer such veils and veil-combos, and a lot more that are fine with the base ability and binds and investing essence situationally. Boatman's Ferry, for example, only needs essence when you need extra speed.

Obviously I've had lots of time since I wrote the vizier back in 2014 to think about how I might do new classes. The vizier really rewards planning and basically dividing your veils up so that your focus is really on two or three at a time. The Nexus was a class that I wanted to be very accessible and forgiving to new players; while the OG akashic classes are more similar to the classic Incarnum classes in rewarding research and planning, the Nexus does a lot more to provide guidance and protect the player from suboptimal choices. I actually did a lot of playtesting with new and inexperienced players to make sure that pretty much anyone could jump into a Nexus and play it however they want while maintaining a pretty steady baseline, and I think I got it there.


There's plenty of great new veils for Seer Viziers to share with allies, but one did stand out: Banelight Vortices. Is it just me, or is this strictly better than Riven Darts?


What you should really see is that Banelight Vortices are going to be stronger against a smaller number of opponents, while Riven Darts will build up to being essentially a storm of magic missiles that will be much more useful for clearing out mooks and minions.


No, you can still shape the native ones, you just need to spend feats if you want to bind them all.

This is exactly correct. The radiant should be able to easily cover all of their veils shaped, they're just not going to necessarily have binds for all of them. The radiant is a lot less focused on individual power and more on supporting and empowering a group (even if they have to create that group themselves), so I thought this would be a good way for them to have a solid, broad base of abilities without introducing too much individual power that would have escalated them above the other akashic classes.


We will look into this. There are already some Parity specific veils for the Steamwalkers and it would make sense that their "lifeforce technicians" could operate off of INT. We might not have the count left for that section BUT the veilweaving response has been so good we are looking at another possible expansion in addition to the content on Co7S.

As Christen notes above, we have a lot of inspiration to work with on additional materials. Co7S is already going to have a new daevic passion for Int-based daevics, a new guru philosophy, and a new vizier mystic attunement designed to make them even better at filling the party wizard role without tying them to crafting mechanics, so there's a big spread of stuff coming. We're also looking at more expansion material that won't be in the main book, so if we can't find the room in Co7S, there's a real possibility we'll find a way to cover it in another product line entry.

[Quarian Rex]

It seems like the 4th tier Hells Convergence might be missing some detail. Currently it says...


Once a creature has failed their save they instantly die and the nexus can immediately use their soul to summon a devil whose total Hit Dice are less than or equal to the deceased creature’s Hit Dice...

How long does this summoning last? Semi-permanent may be too much to ask for (but you did just pay for it with an actual soul using a 4th tier ability...) but currently it is completely unspecified. Also, is this a [Summoning] or a [Calling] effect. It can matter. Summoning is mentioned but there is a difference between fluff talk and crunch talk.

Also, what exactly is going on here? Are you paying for a devil's services through the payment of a soul, or are you turning the soul into a devil? Does this have an effect on the ability to raise/resurrect the slain contract holder? If you just paid for a devil's services with a soul, I'm pretty sure the infernals won't be happy with mortals just stealing back their currency (and would probably have safeguards against such things). If you just turned the soul into a devil I suspect that would complicate things as well.

Great job on the class overall. Great mix of simplicity and depth.

[Ssalarn]

It seems like the 4th tier Hells Convergence might be missing some detail. Currently it says...

How long does this summoning last? Semi-permanent may be too much to ask for (but you did just pay for it with an actual soul using a 4th tier ability...) but currently it is completely unspecified.

It's supposed to have a duration of 1 hour or until you choose to dismiss the devil as a standard action. I've added this to the working docs and the change log.



Also, is this a [Summoning] or a [Calling] effect. It can matter. Summoning is mentioned but there is a difference between fluff talk and crunch talk.

It is a summoning effect.



Also, what exactly is going on here? Are you paying for a devil's services through the payment of a soul, or are you turning the soul into a devil? Does this have an effect on the ability to raise/resurrect the slain contract holder? If you just paid for a devil's services with a soul, I'm pretty sure the infernals won't be happy with mortals just stealing back their currency (and would probably have safeguards against such things). If you just turned the soul into a devil I suspect that would complicate things as well.

You're consuming the soul's energy and using that energy to summon forth a devil. The soul itself is released after this process is completed, similarly to the way the Blackened Pitchfork works. If you wanted to play with that assumption and decide that you're actually selling the soul to a devil in exchange for its services that would certainly be an interesting roleplaying hook, but the core assumption for most of the soul-related abilities is that you're just using them as magical batteries.



Great job on the class overall. Great mix of simplicity and depth.

Thank you! Making the nexus as accessible as possible without sacrificing depth or power was a major goal of the project for me.

[calyst]

Yeah the Nexus is my favorite Akashic class so far.

[Ssalarn]

Yeah the Nexus is my favorite Akashic class so far.

I'm excited to see some of the other new akashic classes I've written for Lost Spheres make it into the wider audience's hands, but nexus definitely set the tone for the new classes and general presentation.

[Quarian Rex]

You're consuming the soul's energy and using that energy to summon forth a devil. The soul itself is released after this process is completed, similarly to the way the Blackened Pitchfork works. If you wanted to play with that assumption and decide that you're actually selling the soul to a devil in exchange for its services that would certainly be an interesting roleplaying hook, but the core assumption for most of the soul-related abilities is that you're just using them as magical batteries.


I gotcha on that. I just think that it needs a line to spell that out due to the nature of the ability. This is essentially the pay off for selling a soul. That the soul is freed from Hell's influence by the use of this ability is not something that would be intuitively clear. Not arguing against the decision here (allowing a quick burning off of soul energy for backup instead of investing in the soul trade and such), I just think that it needs a little more clarity.

Also, some things I noticed as I went through the veils...



Chakra Bind (Shoulders) [N10, V10]
Binding this veil to your Shoulders chakra causes creatures who fail their saving throw against your aura to be frightened instead of panicked.

I believe that the reference to panicked should be changed to shaken (unless there is a missing mechanic somewhere).



Veins of molten flame pulse beneath your skin as you become one with elemental flame.

The flavor text seems to be for the wrong veil and has nothing to do with Babau Skin.


About the Mantle of Infernal Dukedom, it is a versatile and quite powerful veil... at level 20. Unfortunately it is so niche as to be virtually useless prior to that. This just seems like a waste. Any chance of taking some of that utility from 20 and sprinkling it a little more liberally throughout? Perhaps allowing normal SR from the beginning but providing bonus SR vs good and chaos. While we are on the SR, can we think about reworking the math in this a bit? The current SR 5 + 2/essence is a horrible trap. Even with max investment it results in an SR that is virtually auto-penetrated by an equal level caster. You're looking at an SR 13 at level 10 and SR 19 at 20. That's with max investment. Let me repeat that, with max investment it offers a defense that does not exist. Methinks that this might need some tweaking.

[Ssalarn]

I gotcha on that. I just think that it needs a line to spell that out due to the nature of the ability. This is essentially the pay off for selling a soul. That the soul is freed from Hell's influence by the use of this ability is not something that would be intuitively clear. Not arguing against the decision here (allowing a quick burning off of soul energy for backup instead of investing in the soul trade and such), I just think that it needs a little more clarity.

Noted!



I believe that the reference to panicked should be changed to shaken (unless there is a missing mechanic somewhere).


Looks like this is an issue that we already caught and updated in the source docs but just haven't rolled over to the alpha docs. It will properly reflect an upgrade from shaken in the final release.



The flavor text seems to be for the wrong veil and has nothing to do with Babau Skin.


Whoops, copy/paste error there. I've updated the source docs to read "A leathery layer of slime-coated flesh oozes with magic as it forms around your body." This probably won't be reflected in the playtest for a bit.



About the Mantle of Infernal Dukedom, it is a versatile and quite powerful veil... at level 20. Unfortunately it is so niche as to be virtually useless prior to that. This just seems like a waste. Any chance of taking some of that utility from 20 and sprinkling it a little more liberally throughout? Perhaps allowing normal SR from the beginning but providing bonus SR vs good and chaos. While we are on the SR, can we think about reworking the math in this a bit? The current SR 5 + 2/essence is a horrible trap. Even with max investment it results in an SR that is virtually auto-penetrated by an equal level caster. You're looking at an SR 13 at level 10 and SR 19 at 20. That's with max investment. Let me repeat that, with max investment it offers a defense that does not exist. Methinks that this might need some tweaking.

Reviewed and noted. I'm looking at changing the scaling to 8 + 3/essence as general SR with a flat +5 bonus against good/chaos, which should help it track better without leading to some high-end scaling issues I tweaked it down for originally.

I'll need to double-check with Christen about that change and will to wait to hear your thoughts before rolling forward, but I think that's probably the best way to tweak it without drastically changing the word count or function. I might swap the poison immunity to resistance that upgrades to immunity with the bind just to smooth the basic benefits out and keep them balanced across all types of games, but I think that should be a relatively small concern.

[Quarian Rex]

Reviewed and noted. I'm looking at changing the scaling to 8 + 3/essence as general SR with a flat +5 bonus against good/chaos, which should help it track better without leading to some high-end scaling issues I tweaked it down for originally.

I'll need to double-check with Christen about that change and will to wait to hear your thoughts before rolling forward, but I think that's probably the best way to tweak it without drastically changing the word count or function. I might swap the poison immunity to resistance that upgrades to immunity with the bind just to smooth the basic benefits out and keep them balanced across all types of games, but I think that should be a relatively small concern.

The new SR math looks great. That will provide @50% protection at 10th and 20th level which seems about right. Something that can be pushed a little higher with the right investment (feat and/or item) but penetration has the same counters, so I think that works.

Adding poison resistance would be a great idea I think. Right now it suffers from only being useful with full investment. Having a secondary benefit that is relevant with no (or minimal) investment is probably a good way to go. As far as balance is concerned, I think you're more than good as well. While the body bind is great, it is a capstone, and I really don't think that capstones should have any real place in balance considerations.

[Ssalarn]

The new SR math looks great. That will provide @50% protection at 10th and 20th level which seems about right. Something that can be pushed a little higher with the right investment (feat and/or item) but penetration has the same counters, so I think that works.

Adding poison resistance would be a great idea I think. Right now it suffers from only being useful with full investment. Having a secondary benefit that is relevant with no (or minimal) investment is probably a good way to go. As far as balance is concerned, I think you're more than good as well. While the body bind is great, it is a capstone, and I really don't think that capstones should have any real place in balance considerations.


I've implemented the updated math and other tweaks to the veil. It should feel a lot better across all levels now, though the changes likely won't be reflected in the alpha docs for a bit.

[Bahumut]

Merry Christmas to the whole Co7S team!

Quick question, will we see a full-layout release of the Radiant before the main product releases?

[Ssalarn]

Merry Christmas to the whole Co7S team!

Quick question, will we see a full-layout release of the Radiant before the main product releases?

Merry Christmas!

I believe that that is Christen's intent, but I'll point him in this direction in case he has a different/better answer.

[Bahumut]

Merry Christmas!

I believe that that is Christen's intent, but I'll point him in this direction in case he has a different/better answer.

Excellent! Thank you for the speedy response...no rush on the full-layout, I'd rather it get all cleaned up and tested out before we see the 'pretty' version.

[Lost_Spheres]

Excellent! Thank you for the speedy response...no rush on the full-layout, I'd rather it get all cleaned up and tested out before we see the 'pretty' version.

We appreciate the patience. As playtesting proceeded with Nexus it became clear that each significant change or addition of veils etc required new layout work and we want to make sure that we have a fairly "final" version of the class before releasing the polished one and forcing our layout person to redo work over and over.

[NomGarret]

Are you guys intending to reprint anything from other sources? I’m mostly thinking about feats, but this could apply more broadly. Or is the goal to devote as much of the space as possible to original content? There are certainly pros and cons to both approaches.

[Ssalarn]

Are you guys intending to reprint anything from other sources? I’m mostly thinking about feats, but this could apply more broadly. Or is the goal to devote as much of the space as possible to original content? There are certainly pros and cons to both approaches.

There are some reprinted materials in City of Seven Seraphs, but to my knowledge most of those are not for akashic materials. I know Christen is reprinting the aegis class and some supporting materials since the class is a big part of the backstory of Co7S, but I ate up a ridiculous amount of page space as is with my 3 new classes, additional mystic attunements/passions/philosophies, and new veils, so while it's possible that Christen has identified some items he wants to reprint, as far as I'm aware the akashic materials included will be all original materials.

As to whether there might be reprints in future supporting products, well... possibly, assuming the product in question justifies the need. There are a couple veils referenced in new classes and materials that I wouldn't mind reprinting for ease of use (and so I can push through some updates that never made it into the original AM release), but that's all going to come down to things like page space, word count, and whether or not the product calls for it. At least as far as my piece of things is concerned.

[Quarian Rex]

Has there been any thought to adding a talent that would allow a character to change the weapon associated with a given weapon veil? Something that would allow you to use Loyal Paladin’s Spear of Light as a greataxe or a cestus (or whatever) instead of a shortspear. The weapon itself tends to be a fairly minor component of the respective veils and I think that it could open up a lot of interesting possibilities.

I can't be the only one who needs his soul stealing weapon to be a greatsword when he shapes Blackened Pitchfork (I blame all the Moorcock reading as a youth). This isn't to say that I think that the current weapons should be changed (infernal weapon, pitchfork, I get it), just that these things are cool (and becoming more prevalent) and there should be an option to make them fit various character concepts better.

How about requiring that the chosen weapon has to be one the character is already proficient in and has to share basic type. A light weapon can be changed into another light weapon the character is proficient in, two-handed to two-handed, ranged melee weapon to ranged melee weapon (sorry whips...).

Thoughts?

[Ssalarn]

Has there been any thought to adding a talent that would allow a character to change the weapon associated with a given weapon veil? Something that would allow you to use Loyal Paladin’s Spear of Light as a greataxe or a cestus (or whatever) instead of a shortspear. The weapon itself tends to be a fairly minor component of the respective veils and I think that it could open up a lot of interesting possibilities.

I can't be the only one who needs his soul stealing weapon to be a greatsword when he shapes Blackened Pitchfork (I blame all the Moorcock reading as a youth). This isn't to say that I think that the current weapons should be changed (infernal weapon, pitchfork, I get it), just that these things are cool (and becoming more prevalent) and there should be an option to make them fit various character concepts better.

How about requiring that the chosen weapon has to be one the character is already proficient in and has to share basic type. A light weapon can be changed into another light weapon the character is proficient in, two-handed to two-handed, ranged melee weapon to ranged melee weapon (sorry whips...).

Thoughts?

It's certainly not a bad idea. There are a couple veils (I think primarily on the Eclipse, who has some more unique options like veils that grant paired hand crossbows) where that might need some extra attention to avoid any weirdness, but I'll keep it mind and see if we can't work something in that's functional and useful.

I wouldn't really want it to be a feat since that's just "Exotic Weapon Proficiency 2.0: Save a Feat By Asking Your GM For A Reskin", unless maybe it was part of a feat that gives you a lot more flexibility in how you shape veils and akashic items in general? I may have a project in this product line that would be a perfect fit for an idea like that, so I'll definitely tinker around with it.

[Quarian Rex]

It's certainly not a bad idea. There are a couple veils (I think primarily on the Eclipse, who has some more unique options like veils that grant paired hand crossbows) where that might need some extra attention to avoid any weirdness, but I'll keep it mind and see if we can't work something in that's functional and useful.

I wouldn't really want it to be a feat since that's just "Exotic Weapon Proficiency 2.0: Save a Feat By Asking Your GM For A Reskin", unless maybe it was part of a feat that gives you a lot more flexibility in how you shape veils and akashic items in general? I may have a project in this product line that would be a perfect fit for an idea like that, so I'll definitely tinker around with it.

When I typed talent I meant Trait. My fault for posting at 6am. Yup, for the base 'choose one weapon you already know (no free feat), choose one veil, live with the decision' option I think that it would be best treated as a trait rather than a feat. Having an additional, and more versatile, feat option would be interesting as well.

[Kaouse]

What's the ETA on this book, exactly? It sounds really interesting, especially if there's going to be new stuff for the Aegis to use.

[khadgar567]

What's the ETA on this book, exactly? It sounds really interesting, especially if there's going to be new stuff for the Aegis to use.
more importantly whats the eta on eclipse from previous posts i think we have reaper from overwatch in our hands( and maybe that annoying tracer) with winter fae powers none less looks like money well spend for me already.

[Lost_Spheres]

What's the ETA on this book, exactly? It sounds really interesting, especially if there's going to be new stuff for the Aegis to use.

Our stated delivery in the Kickstarter is August of 2018. We are currently ahead of schedule for that but as that this will be out first print book we hesitate to say for certain by how much we can beat that goal. Either way, the PDF backers should see it a bit earlier than that (shortly after print submission and review). Backers will see a couple other goodies over the next months. We are adding some customization options for Aegis and some other ways to use the class particularly when multi-classing with other classes. Thanks for your support and patience!

[Kaouse]

Our stated delivery in the Kickstarter is August of 2018. We are currently ahead of schedule for that but as that this will be out first print book we hesitate to say for certain by how much we can beat that goal. Either way, the PDF backers should see it a bit earlier than that (shortly after print submission and review). Backers will see a couple other goodies over the next months. We are adding some customization options for Aegis and some other ways to use the class particularly when multi-classing with other classes. Thanks for your support and patience!

Is it too late to be a backer, or do I have to pre-order?

[Ssalarn]

Is it too late to be a backer, or do I have to pre-order?

Pre-ordering through Backerkit (https://co7s.backerkit.com/hosted_preorders) will get you access to many of the same benefits as Kickstarter backers. Obviously things like the early-bird pricing and tier-specific rewards aren't available, but access to the Nexus and Radiant betas and other goodies that will be coming out will still be made available to you. You'll have a slight delay in receiving those offerings since there's a manual step involved and you won't have access to the Kickstarter update links for backers, but you'll still get some cool stuff.

[Eldest]

Question for you fine folks, I found out about this after the kickstarter was over and went ahead and pre-ordered it anyway. How do I get access to the Nexus preview? It's been a week or so.

[Ssalarn]

Question for you fine folks, I found out about this after the kickstarter was over and went ahead and pre-ordered it anyway. How do I get access to the Nexus preview? It's been a week or so.
Let me bump Christen, see if he can get that sorted out for you.

[Lost_Spheres]

Question for you fine folks, I found out about this after the kickstarter was over and went ahead and pre-ordered it anyway. How do I get access to the Nexus preview? It's been a week or so.

Eldest, thank you for your support! We did send out some playtest docs to a few people on the BackerKit lists last week. Please check your spam folders to see if you have a complimentary mailing from RPGNow or DriveThruRPG from us. If you don't please email us here ([email protected]) and we will get this sorted out as soon as possible.

[Ssalarn]

more importantly whats the eta on eclipse from previous posts i think we have reaper from overwatch in our hands( and maybe that annoying tracer) with winter fae powers none less looks like money well spend for me already.

We don't have hard dates yet and a lot is hinging on the turnaround from editing and layout, but the goal is that backers are going to have some awesome new akashic goodies within the next couple months.

[Awun]

The Avatar of Light veil states that it grants a lucent as a servant, but the Nexus playtest document does not include the creature's stats. Will it be included in a future version of the document or just in the final release of the book?


At any rate, the new veilweaving classes and veils are fantastic. They all but beg to be put to use, but don't overshadow their predecessors. Something that is definitely worth noting, is that the increased versatility granted by so many new veils make veilweavers much more capable of competing with traditional spell casters who have a veritable mountain of spells at their disposal. I also love the organization of the veils into themed sets, as this makes selecting them for role playing purposes or to fit a general character concept an absolute breeze.

[NomGarret]

There actually was a Lucent stats sidebar in the earlier Nexus release. Not sure how findable that is if you’re a later backer, but I’m sure it can be done.

Their key bits are that they get a light electric blast and fly speed, both of which can be improved with essence, and they can take essence burn to heal adjacent creatures. It makes it a pretty attractive veil for low levels, when you don’t have enough veils to rely on overspecialized ones.

[Ssalarn]

The Avatar of Light veil states that it grants a lucent as a servant, but the Nexus playtest document does not include the creature's stats. Will it be included in a future version of the document or just in the final release of the book?

The lucent was actually included in some of the releases. I think what happened was that as layout was being done the lucent got moved to the monster section of the book and out of the class. It'll definitely be in the final release, and I'll reach out to Christen to see if there's anywhere later backers can get access to the stats.



At any rate, the new veilweaving classes and veils are fantastic. They all but beg to be put to use, but don't overshadow their predecessors. Something that is definitely worth noting, is that the increased versatility granted by so many new veils make veilweavers much more capable of competing with traditional spell casters who have a veritable mountain of spells at their disposal.

Thank you! Those were all definitely the goals I was shooting for. The nexus in particular was designed to be very accessible and less of an "advanced" class, something that players with a minimal amount of play experience could still jump into quickly and easily. And of course, using that new page space to fill in even more functionality for all the classes with the greatly expanded veil lists was a big boon of this work.



I also love the organization of the veils into themed sets, as this makes selecting them for role playing purposes or to fit a general character concept an absolute breeze.

I actually started designing the veils in sets back in the original AM release, but never formalized the structure and that was actually something I've really regretted, so getting to come back and codify everything to increase that guidance and accessibility was something I was really looking forward to as I came on board with Lost Spheres. All three of the new akashic classes for Co7S use the new thematic veil set structure, and the expansion materials I've written that Lost Spheres will be releasing as part of the Co7S product line (but not the main release) will continue to use that format, including with some of the veil reprints that will be featured. Christen and I have been busy planning and writing new materials not just for Co7S (which I, personally, am largely finished with at this point, with the exception of maintenance and updates related to feedback on the alpha and beta docs for the akashic classes and materials), but also for supporting lines. We've already got a new class that will push the akashic system into new territory queued up for when layout and editing are finished with the Co7S priority materials, as well as new veil sets, akashic feats, archetypes, and more. Expect it to be a very good year for fans of the akashic magic subsystem :smallsmile:

[Lost_Spheres]

The Avatar of Light veil states that it grants a lucent as a servant, but the Nexus playtest document does not include the creature's stats. Will it be included in a future version of the document or just in the final release of the book?.

We have added a separate downloadable lucent stat sheet to make sure everyone gets it...

We also added.... the Eclipse base class playtest. :smallsmile:

[AlienFromBeyond]

Eclipse is really cool, great take on a shadowdancer type character. A few questions and thoughts for it:


If you and your occultation both have an enemy threatened that provokes and AoO, can you both take one (at the cost of using two AoOs from your pool, Combat Reflexes a must!)?
The Darkness Dragon belt bind says its attacks may benefit from any enigma you know. Are they restricted in the same way, requiring the dragon to do an attack action with a single natural weapon it has, or does each of its attacks qualify as a "use of a targeted veil ability"? The latter seems pretty strong, but it is a level 16/18 ability, and the dragon itself is fragile so maybe that's fine. As a related followup, attacks with weapon-like veils in general don't count for enigma as a "targeted veil ability" and instead have to use the attack action to get an enigma correct?
Growing Darkness enigma wording uses the singular "against the affected target" but the enigma ability is clear that veil abilities that target multiple creatures such as Riven Darts hands bind qualify for enigmas. With a multi-target veil ability such as this, is Growing Darkness intended to repeat the entire use against all targets, or just a single one? My guess is the intent is the former.
Another Growing Darkness concern, it says it activates the veil again, which as far as I can tell means the second activation would qualify for another enigma, potentially allowing you to loop Growing Darkness. Maybe just add some text that the second activation is considered part of the first one, which would stop this with the already existing "The eclipse can only use a single enigma on a given attack action or veil ability activation" text?
How does Dark Intensity interact with the Twin Veil feat? Can you triple shape onto one slot if you pick the same one with the class feature as the feat? And if you do separate ones, does having two veils in the Hands slot through Twin Veil activate the attack action bonus while having two veils in the Feet slot through Dark Intensity?
The 19th level Shadow Armor ability doesn't seem to work at all. Shadow armor abilities only function when you don't have an occultation, but Second life requires you to consume your occultation for it to function. This paradox seems to hinder its ability to do its job.
While I'm sure it's not the intent, the text of the Darkholds Wrist bind says that you "deflect attacks into the nondimensional space within your gauntlets", the same space you're storing items. Someone... less generous might say an item in there gets hit when you do deflect, especially if it's a splash weapon like an Alchemist's bomb.
Sable Shots essence benefit says "darts fired from these hand crossbows" but all crossbows (including hand ones) fire bolts, not darts.
Nothingness Shroud in Void's Embrace set is listed first before Gauntlets of the Void, order should be swapped.
Why does Gauntlets of the Void veil only create a singlet gauntlet?
A no save staggered on crit from Voidblade seems very strong, especially once Improved Critical and the +1 round duration increase come into play. It comes online earlier and compares favorably to the Staggering Critical feat, while also having other bonuses like the attack roll debuff on non-crits.


I really like the set of new weapon-like veils in the Eclipse doc, from the black hole flails to the hand crossbows that attack with darkness (rather than attacking it :smalltongue:). The capstone is neat, though the ability to steal unique slot veils such as Ring and Blood doesn't actually do anything right now since there are no Ring or Blood veils with the darkness descriptor. I know it's a separate publisher and all but I like the slight silliness of using a veil to create a gauntlet from Gauntlets of the Void veil, and then using that gauntlet as the focus for a Fiend's Grip from the Fiendbound Marauder archetype in Path of War: Expanded (even if it wouldn't be a very good combination because the Fiend's Grip wouldn't benefit from the additional cold damage with essence). Using magic to create a weapon that you use more magic on to create another weapon!

And thanks for giving the Lucent stats back!

[calyst]

Issues found Dark Intensity should be with "up to two weapon" not "up two weapons". Cloak of Darkness Veil the way its currently worded it only gives bonus' in dim light shouldn't that be dim or darker?

[Mithril Leaf]

Wow, the combination of Darkwalker Hood and Sable Shots seems like a super great combination. Definitely liking the Eclipse thus far.

[AlienFromBeyond]

I was wondering, will we be seeing any archetypes for the akashic classes, whether the old ones or new? Because I'd love to see an Eclipse archetype that operates in the reverse direction on bright light instead of darkness, flipping what the abilities work off of but also all the darkness veils into light veils.

[Galacktic]

Been looking through the Eclipse since I got off work and I have to say, I adore it flavor wise and the mechanics are pretty nice too. But one thing is a bit odd to me.

They're the masters of the shadow and darkness veils, but they're the worst at using them. They get their binds for them far later than everyone else, and while I understand that they're a 3/4th BAB class with their Enigmas and the Occultation to help them out in combat, I feel like that they could use some love in the flavor.

Maybe an ability to - with some specific veils - bind it earlier than the others if it has the [Shadow] descriptor or similar? As is, a Vizier or Daevic (or even the Nexus) are generally -better- at using the Eclipse's veils. The Eclipse needs them less, but it's just having the regular Vizier or similar just straight better at using their niche than them.

(I'm not counting the Darkness Dragon here, because that's its own thing - the fact that it can apply Enigmas to its attacks at level 18 isn't much of a consideration, because most games will never go to level 18.)

That's another thought too; maybe give more of the veils specific Enigma/Occultation interaction beyond just being able to use it from the Occultation's square.


E: To be clear, it isn't power that I have a problem with. I haven't played with the class enough for that to be a thing I'm considering at all yet. I mostly just have a problem with the other Veilweavers being so much better at using Shadow veils than the Eclipse, especially one like the Daevic (which is on a better chassis to begin with).

[khadgar567]

yep reaper has come boys. eclipse looks sweet but i wish we can use void blade as arm blade instead of great sword but who cares. nazgul is in the pathfinder.

[khadgar567]

come to think of it why can ecilipse create more Occultation then one( or two with enigma). since we have the toys to crate nazgul. but creating one per turn makes to much hassle even if you have the time so I am gonna ask this can we create multiple Occultation at same time or can we get it as enigma power pretty please?

[Biapolis]

You know, I didn't think I'd like the Eclipse when I first read the description. Just seemed off to me. But after reading the Alpha, I must say I quite enjoy it. I guess I'll have to add it as another "must try ASAP" to my list, which is getting pretty long, especially as I don't think I'll be having any games starting anytime soon.


come to think of it why can ecilipse create more Occultation then one( or two with enigma). since we have the toys to crate nazgul. but creating one per turn makes to much hassle even if you have the time so I am gonna ask this can we create multiple Occultation at same time or can we get it as enigma power pretty please?

Well, you could set them up precombat, in stealth, which seems to be a thing this class would like. They look like normal shadows unless the person can make their Knowledge: Arcana check, so you should be able to just plop them into a normal shadow, and keep ploping out more until you are ready to strike and reveal your shadow army! lol.

[Eldest]

Eldest, thank you for your support! We did send out some playtest docs to a few people on the BackerKit lists last week. Please check your spam folders to see if you have a complimentary mailing from RPGNow or DriveThruRPG from us. If you don't please email us here ([email protected]) and we will get this sorted out as soon as possible.

This got resolved, by the way, thank you.

[Lost_Spheres]

Been looking through the Eclipse since I got off work and I have to say, I adore it flavor wise and the mechanics are pretty nice too. But one thing is a bit odd to me.

They're the masters of the shadow and darkness veils, but they're the worst at using them. They get their binds for them far later than everyone else, and while I understand that they're a 3/4th BAB class with their Enigmas and the Occultation to help them out in combat, I feel like that they could use some love in the flavor.

This has come up in playtesting flavorwise but with enigmas stacking to all weaponlike/targeting veils and capacity to utilize them through occultations, we have been very hesitant to up access to veils because of the edges in usage. We will run some more against daevic and other builds to confirm our initial data but access limits seem the best way to balance against the eclipse's advantages in using their veils. We definitely can see the flavor wrinkle though and may adjust some of the text to support it better.

A playtester commented that he didn't "get it" until he realized that Occultation and Enigma are the "sneak attack" to the "dagger" of the Eclipse's veils. Still we will keep looking at the text to smooth the issues with consistency.

[Lost_Spheres]

This got resolved, by the way, thank you.

Awesome! Please let us know if you have any other issues!

[Ssalarn]

Eclipse is really cool, great take on a shadowdancer type character. A few questions and thoughts for it:


If you and your occultation both have an enemy threatened that provokes and AoO, can you both take one (at the cost of using two AoOs from your pool, Combat Reflexes a must!)?

Yes.


The Darkness Dragon belt bind says its attacks may benefit from any enigma you know. Are they restricted in the same way, requiring the dragon to do an attack action with a single natural weapon it has, or does each of its attacks qualify as a "use of a targeted veil ability"? The latter seems pretty strong, but it is a level 16/18 ability, and the dragon itself is fragile so maybe that's fine.

The Darkness Dragon still needs to meet the requirements for using an enigma, so typically it's going to need to choose between an enigma-enhanced attack action, an essence-pumped full attack, or a breath weapon attack.


As a related followup, attacks with weapon-like veils in general don't count for enigma as a "targeted veil ability" and instead have to use the attack action to get an enigma correct?

Correct. A "targeted veil effect" is going to be something like Riven Darts, the chakram effect of the Bangles of the Jealous Seductress bind, or the effects of the Cerebral Catastrophe Cinch.


Growing Darkness enigma wording uses the singular "against the affected target" but the enigma ability is clear that veil abilities that target multiple creatures such as Riven Darts hands bind qualify for enigmas. With a multi-target veil ability such as this, is Growing Darkness intended to repeat the entire use against all targets, or just a single one? My guess is the intent is the former.

Yes, Growing Darkness is essentially the eclipse's "Quicken Spell" for veil effects, so it's intended to let you repeat the initial effect.


Another Growing Darkness concern, it says it activates the veil again, which as far as I can tell means the second activation would qualify for another enigma, potentially allowing you to loop Growing Darkness. Maybe just add some text that the second activation is considered part of the first one, which would stop this with the already existing "The eclipse can only use a single enigma on a given attack action or veil ability activation" text?

That's exactly how it's supposed to work, yes. I'll tidy up Growing Darkness to address both questions.



How does Dark Intensity interact with the Twin Veil feat? Can you triple shape onto one slot if you pick the same one with the class feature as the feat? And if you do separate ones, does having two veils in the Hands slot through Twin Veil activate the attack action bonus while having two veils in the Feet slot through Dark Intensity?

You can stack Dark Intensity with Twin Veil if you want, having up to three veils in your Hands or Feet slot if you choose, though normal limitations on bonus type stacking and such still apply. The additional bonuses are specific to the veil granted by Dark Intensity; shaping an extra veil in your Hands or Feet slot with a separate ability like Twin Veil won't trigger the bonus abilities of Dark Intensity.



The 19th level Shadow Armor ability doesn't seem to work at all. Shadow armor abilities only function when you don't have an occultation, but Second life requires you to consume your occultation for it to function. This paradox seems to hinder its ability to do its job.

I'll revisit the wording on that. I cleaned up occultation during development to make some other abilities read "cleaner" by separating out the shadow armor and occultation functions and that didn't get cleaned up quite as well as the other functions. I've updated the wording in the source doc to say "consume a portion of their darkness energy", removing the reference to an occultation to clarify the function.


While I'm sure it's not the intent, the text of the Darkholds Wrist bind says that you "deflect attacks into the nondimensional space within your gauntlets", the same space you're storing items. Someone... less generous might say an item in there gets hit when you do deflect, especially if it's a splash weapon like an Alchemist's bomb.

I've added a line to specify that using the deflection ability does not affect any items stored within the Darkholds.


Sable Shots essence benefit says "darts fired from these hand crossbows" but all crossbows (including hand ones) fire bolts, not darts.

Updated accordingly!


Nothingness Shroud in Void's Embrace set is listed first before Gauntlets of the Void, order should be swapped.

Updated accordingly.


Why does Gauntlets of the Void veil only create a singlet gauntlet?

It was actually "gauntlet" of the void, but there was some concern that it would be misinterpreted as requiring the spiked gauntlet weapon hand to be used with the bind ability to wield a two-handed weapon in one hand; you're supposed to be able to use the veil to wield a two-handed weapon in one hand and the gauntlet in the other. If it's less confusing to remove the "s" from the veil title I can clip that back out.


A no save staggered on crit from Voidblade seems very strong, especially once Improved Critical and the +1 round duration increase come into play. It comes online earlier and compares favorably to the Staggering Critical feat, while also having other bonuses like the attack roll debuff on non-crits.

I've tagged a note on this veil to watch for any further feedback. I do agree it's a very potent ability, but it's also a not-insignificant amount of resource and probably your primary offensive option if you're using it. We'll do some testing and additional evaluation and watch for further feedback, but I'm not going to jump on a change just yet. If we do end up deciding it's appropriate to shift that staggered ability, we'll probably move it to a function of invested essence for the weapon to match it up with a capacity threshold that's closer to the Staggering Critical feat.



I really like the set of new weapon-like veils in the Eclipse doc, from the black hole flails to the hand crossbows that attack with darkness (rather than attacking it :smalltongue:).

Thanks! I knew as soon as we decided that the Eclipse was going to be an akashic class that a big part of what I wanted to do with it was give it some really unique weaponry, while of course simultaneously opening up some of those cool toys to the other akashic classes.



The capstone is neat, though the ability to steal unique slot veils such as Ring and Blood doesn't actually do anything right now since there are no Ring or Blood veils with the darkness descriptor.

Forward-looking design is always important. We're not just putting out a book with three akashic classes and some other materials that aren't going to see support, we're launching a new product line, and part of that product line is going to include new releases of akashic materials, so if we're going to create a class feature that says "you get all veils with the darkness descriptor", we want to make clear up front that that really means all such veils, both those that are already out there, and those we might introduce in the future.


And thanks for giving the Lucent stats back!

Of course! Sorry that the lucent got lost in the mix, there's just a lot of moving parts when it comes to assembling a book and what works in a class submission doesn't necessarily make sense for the final book, so things get chopped up and moved around.


Issues found Dark Intensity should be with "up to two weapon" not "up two weapons". Cloak of Darkness Veil the way its currently worded it only gives bonus' in dim light shouldn't that be dim or darker?

Yes, Cloak of Darkness should be "dim or darker" lighting. Both of these have been updated accordingly. Thanks for the catch!


yep reaper has come boys. eclipse looks sweet but i wish we can use void blade as arm blade instead of great sword but who cares. nazgul is in the pathfinder.

Voidblade being part of the Void's Embrace set is, in part, intended to allow it to pair up naturally with Gauntlets of the Void so that you can use it one-handed :smallsmile:


You know, I didn't think I'd like the Eclipse when I first read the description. Just seemed off to me. But after reading the Alpha, I must say I quite enjoy it. I guess I'll have to add it as another "must try ASAP" to my list, which is getting pretty long, especially as I don't think I'll be having any games starting anytime soon.


I'm glad you ended up pleasantly surprised! Out of curiosity, was there anything specific you can think of about the description that had turned you off initially?

[Thealtruistorc]

Just a suggestion: is it too late in the project to change some of the class names? Eclipse and Radiant seem rather specific in their titles and don't sound like something a fantasy character would introduce themselves as.

If it were up to me, I would call the Radiant something like the Luminary and the Eclipse the Obscurist. These seem much more like titles that would be used to describe one's abilities, and just have a nice ring to them.

[Ssalarn]

I was wondering, will we be seeing any archetypes for the akashic classes, whether the old ones or new? Because I'd love to see an Eclipse archetype that operates in the reverse direction on bright light instead of darkness, flipping what the abilities work off of but also all the darkness veils into light veils.

Co7S will have new passions, philosophies, and mystic attunements for the daevic, guru, and vizier, as well as some racial archetypes and other thematic options for the new akashic classes, but to my knowledge we don't have a light-inversion eclipse option, and all the page-count is pretty much spoken for. That being said, Christen and I already have some follow-up materials written and queued up to continue supporting Co7S and expanding support for the akashic classes with new akashic feats, veil sets, and other options, so that's definitely something that could see support in future products.



Just a suggestion: is it too late in the project to change some of the class names? Eclipse and Radiant seem rather specific in their titles and don't sound like something a fantasy character would introduce themselves as.

If it were up to me, I would call the Radiant something like the Luminary and the Eclipse the Obscurist. These seem much more like titles that would be used to describe one's abilities, and just have a nice ring to them.

I'm... not sure whether or not we're too far in for name changes. We might be, the names have been out there for a bit and are probably being used in quite a few different areas of the book that are being developed by different contributors, as well as blog posts, the Kickstarter page, etc. I actually like the current names since I think they evoke the raw nature of the class and aren't really used much in other core classes or archetypes. Eclipse, Nexus, and Radiant all kind of have a simple to say and evocative naming convention that I think works well within the planar adventure setting they're showcased in, and they sound good together. To me, Luminary implies a scholarly bent that the Radiant doesn't really have and the Obscurist feels like an archetype focused on hiding information, but I also don't really think of characters introducing themselves by their class name as opposed to a more general statement about what they do. We'll keep our ears open for more feedback on the naming conventions though.

[Quarian Rex]

Looking through the Radiant and noticed a couple of things.

- In the Ceradon’s Eternity veil it says, "You gain the ability to place yourself or a willing touched creature in a state of temporal stasis as a standard action, preventing any negative effects with a recurring frequency (such as disease, poison, or bleed damage) from occurring", but this is currently a little misleading. Temporal stasis is usually synonymous with paralysis and being completely immune to damage/interaction. Further reading makes it clear that the stasis only applies to negative effects but there is nothing in the language to actually correct an errant reading that assumes the paralysis version. I would suggest changing the wording to something like, "You gain the ability to place yourself or a willing touched creature in a state of partial temporal stasis (leaving the creature free to act and be acted upon) as a standard action, preventing any negative effects...", or something like that to clarify before any potential chaos.

- In the Hyandil’s Flowered Regalia veil, "Chakra Bind (Neck): [D16, N14, R12, V14]", shows Daeva instead of Guru.

- The Verdant Vambraces veil needs some clarification. Are the grass and weeds created by the base veil permanent creations/alterations? The answer is even more relevant to the gargantuan tree produced at 6 points of investment. Is this a source of 'free' lumber (for 6 points, why not?)? If not, does the Radiant now have a 60 ft pseudo-elevator that goes up and down with re-investment? It is clear that the difficult ground/entanglement is dismissable, but the Hands bind implies that it is otherwise permanent (until you want to put another down somewhere else). Does it remain even after the veil is unbound? The current wording implies that it might. I don't think that was intended.

- In the favored class section it references Nexus instead of Radiant.

[Ssalarn]

Looking through the Radiant and noticed a couple of things.

- In the Ceradon’s Eternity veil it says, "You gain the ability to place yourself or a willing touched creature in a state of temporal stasis as a standard action, preventing any negative effects with a recurring frequency (such as disease, poison, or bleed damage) from occurring", but this is currently a little misleading. Temporal stasis is usually synonymous with paralysis and being completely immune to damage/interaction. Further reading makes it clear that the stasis only applies to negative effects but there is nothing in the language to actually correct an errant reading that assumes the paralysis version. I would suggest changing the wording to something like, "You gain the ability to place yourself or a willing touched creature in a state of partial temporal stasis (leaving the creature free to act and be acted upon) as a standard action, preventing any negative effects...", or something like that to clarify before any potential chaos.

Temporal stasis isn't really a defined term. It's the name of a spell that can put someone in a state of suspended animation, but it isn't defined terminology as such. That being said, I think adding the word "partial" to help further separate it from the spell is a good call and have made that update in the source docs accordingly.




- In the Hyandil’s Flowered Regalia veil, "Chakra Bind (Neck): [D16, N14, R12, V14]", shows Daeva instead of Guru.


Fixed!



- The Verdant Vambraces veil needs some clarification. Are the grass and weeds created by the base veil permanent creations/alterations?

No, they have a fixed duration of 1d4 + 1/essence rounds before they dissipate.


If not, does the Radiant now have a 60 ft pseudo-elevator that goes up and down with re-investment?

I mean, yeah, if you want. Seems like a reasonably entertaining use of a swift action.



It is clear that the difficult ground/entanglement is dismissable, but the Hands bind implies that it is otherwise permanent (until you want to put another down somewhere else). Does it remain even after the veil is unbound? The current wording implies that it might. I don't think that was intended.

It can't outlast the veil. There's exactly one exception to that rule at this point and it's very specifically called out in the Heart of Yggdrasil. Once the veil is unshaped, it is no longer bound to your Hands chakra and so you no longer have the ability to maintain it indefinitely per the ability itself.


- In the favored class section it references Nexus instead of Radiant.

I'm not seeing this in my copies of the class, so I'm assuming it's some old copypasta that was already caught and just hasn't been updated in the beta doc that went out. Thanks for looking out though!

[AlienFromBeyond]

It was actually "gauntlet" of the void, but there was some concern that it would be misinterpreted as requiring the spiked gauntlet weapon hand to be used with the bind ability to wield a two-handed weapon in one hand; you're supposed to be able to use the veil to wield a two-handed weapon in one hand and the gauntlet in the other. If it's less confusing to remove the "s" from the veil title I can clip that back out.
I see, I will readily admit that I just kind of assumed that I had to use the two-handed weapon in the hand of the gauntlet to get the one-handed benefit, instead of the intended use case you present of gauntlet in one-hand and using the Voidblade in the other. That said, I kind of would prefer the "s" removed from the veil if it's going to stay with a single gauntlet, though honestly I kind of like the idea of changing the veil to just give a pair of gauntlets and keep the name as is instead. Having a pair means it opens up the option of TWF with the veil for class features that care about gauntlets specifically, such as the Vigilante's Fist of the Avenger vigilante talent or the Iron Tyrant archetype for the Antipaladin. It also would mean no worries about someone accidentally misinterpreting like I did on whether the two-handed weapon needs to be wielded with a gauntlet'd hand, as both of them would be. Plus, they're just gauntlets, even with the additional cold damage per essence the base damage is still bad and they have awful crit stats so it wouldn't even be overpowered.


Forward-looking design is always important. We're not just putting out a book with three akashic classes and some other materials that aren't going to see support, we're launching a new product line, and part of that product line is going to include new releases of akashic materials, so if we're going to create a class feature that says "you get all veils with the darkness descriptor", we want to make clear up front that that really means all such veils, both those that are already out there, and those we might introduce in the future.
That's what I figured, working in software future-proofing is a good thing indeed! Maybe add a single new Blood or Ring darkness veil you may or may not be working on as a taste now for the later books while also making the capstone feel cooler with it giving you something very unique? Otherwise it feels a little lacking for level 20, it gives a little more versatility by unlocking more veils to choose from (but not use), let's you see in the dark real good, gives +2 to all your important rolls/stats when it's dark and then turns around and gives you a -2 penalty when in the light, which is very very common. The impact seems very tame, I'd love to see stuff like gaining bonus dark essence that can only go in darkness veils, ability to shape more veils as long as they are darkness, even just dimming the light around you constantly (as almost everything the Eclipse has works on at most dim light). For being "one with the darkness" they sure lack the ability to move or create it.

Also, I just realized I forgot to check in about the interactions of enigmas with the Riven Darts veil (as it's the only targeted but multiple targets veil I could at 2 in the morning). If you pick an enigma such as Channeled Shadowstrike, the extra damage would apply to all targets of Riven Darts as long as they qualify (flanked, flat-footed, etc.)? The wording for when an enigma works doesn't seem to take into account a targeted veil ability that uses an attack roll (but isn't a weapon or an attack action) instead of a saving throw as it states, "If the attack [action is implied] misses or the target succeeds on their save against the veil effect". On top of that, Riven Darts can hit an individual target up to twice, and I would want to make sure that it both doesn't apply an enigma twice against a single target and also that the enigma still occurs even if only one of two attacks hits, the wording is such that if you did an attack action with two attacks and one of them misses then "the effects of the enigma are wasted". Basically the sentence saying when the enigma doesn't occur seems to make it more confusing over writing when the enigma does occur aka if you hit or the enemy fails their save, at most once per enemy per activation/attack.

Now if I can just convince someone I play with to let me play the class in a real game...

[Quarian Rex]

Temporal stasis isn't really a defined term. It's the name of a spell that can put someone in a state of suspended animation, but it isn't defined terminology as such.

Yup, I'm aware, just a clarity thing. The idea that the temporal stasis is so hyper specific may be foreign to some and so cause chaos at the game table (I have seen/had to deal with it). Ounce of prevention and all that.



No, they have a fixed duration of 1d4 + 1/essence rounds before they dissipate.

I assumed that was specifically for the entangled condition, not necessarily for any created plantlife. Any chance we could get the text slightly amended to, "Tall grass, weeds, and other plants spring up in a 20 ft. by 20 ft. square within 40 ft. to wrap around creatures in the area of effect or those that enter the area for 1d4 rounds before dissipating."?



I'm not seeing this in my copies of the class, so I'm assuming it's some old copypasta that was already caught and just hasn't been updated in the beta doc that went out.

I might have an older version or something. I can't check the current releases because the download link has expired (I only grabbed the Eclipse and the Lucent, thinking that nothing had changed in the other docs).

Just to be sure, it was here in my copy...


Favored Class Bonuses
The following favored class options are available to all characters of the listed race who have nexus as
their favored class, and unless otherwise stated, the bonus applies each time you select the favored
class reward.






It can't outlast the veil. There's exactly one exception to that rule at this point and it's very specifically called out in the Heart of Yggdrasil. Once the veil is unshaped, it is no longer bound to your Hands chakra and so you no longer have the ability to maintain it indefinitely per the ability itself.

That is generally the assumption, but when a duration becomes indefinite (something that doesn't have a proper game term) then things get fuzzy with specific trumping general and all that. Also, the wording in the Hands bind of, "you may maintain one additional instance of the veil’s primary effect indefinitely", seems to imply that it allows an additional instance that is also indefinite, something that seems unintended considering all of the vegetation is supposed to disappear in 1d4+Essence rounds.

How about adjusting the wording to something like, "While this veil is bound to your Hands chakra, you may maintain one additional separate instance of the veil’s primary effect indefinitely (so long as the veil remains bound), creating trees or...". Those two additions (or something like them) would remove all doubt of what indefinite means in this context and that it applies solely to this one instance of the power.

I am aware that it may seem like I'm beating a dead horse here but I have had to have lengthy discussions with players at the game table about ambiguous wording despite apparently clear RAI. It causes me the pain. I try to prevent the pain.

[Tariyan Draegr]

Should gauntlet of the void have the wording where you can use your veilweaver level in place of your BAB to hit as other veiks do?

[Ssalarn]

I see, I will readily admit that I just kind of assumed that I had to use the two-handed weapon in the hand of the gauntlet to get the one-handed benefit, instead of the intended use case you present of gauntlet in one-hand and using the Voidblade in the other. That said, I kind of would prefer the "s" removed from the veil if it's going to stay with a single gauntlet, though honestly I kind of like the idea of changing the veil to just give a pair of gauntlets and keep the name as is instead. Having a pair means it opens up the option of TWF with the veil for class features that care about gauntlets specifically, such as the Vigilante's Fist of the Avenger vigilante talent or the Iron Tyrant archetype for the Antipaladin. It also would mean no worries about someone accidentally misinterpreting like I did on whether the two-handed weapon needs to be wielded with a gauntlet'd hand, as both of them would be. Plus, they're just gauntlets, even with the additional cold damage per essence the base damage is still bad and they have awful crit stats so it wouldn't even be overpowered.

Agreed, and updated in the source docs accordingly.



That's what I figured, working in software future-proofing is a good thing indeed! Maybe add a single new Blood or Ring darkness veil you may or may not be working on as a taste now for the later books while also making the capstone feel cooler with it giving you something very unique? Otherwise it feels a little lacking for level 20, it gives a little more versatility by unlocking more veils to choose from (but not use), let's you see in the dark real good, gives +2 to all your important rolls/stats when it's dark and then turns around and gives you a -2 penalty when in the light, which is very very common. The impact seems very tame, I'd love to see stuff like gaining bonus dark essence that can only go in darkness veils, ability to shape more veils as long as they are darkness, even just dimming the light around you constantly (as almost everything the Eclipse has works on at most dim light). For being "one with the darkness" they sure lack the ability to move or create it.

No promises on this one, but I'll look into it and see if there's some tweaks we can make to give it a little more "oomph".



Also, I just realized I forgot to check in about the interactions of enigmas with the Riven Darts veil (as it's the only targeted but multiple targets veil I could at 2 in the morning). If you pick an enigma such as Channeled Shadowstrike, the extra damage would apply to all targets of Riven Darts as long as they qualify (flanked, flat-footed, etc.)?

Correct.


The wording for when an enigma works doesn't seem to take into account a targeted veil ability that uses an attack roll (but isn't a weapon or an attack action) instead of a saving throw as it states, "If the attack [action is implied] misses or the target succeeds on their save against the veil effect". On top of that, Riven Darts can hit an individual target up to twice, and I would want to make sure that it both doesn't apply an enigma twice against a single target and also that the enigma still occurs even if only one of two attacks hits, the wording is such that if you did an attack action with two attacks and one of them misses then "the effects of the enigma are wasted". Basically the sentence saying when the enigma doesn't occur seems to make it more confusing over writing when the enigma does occur aka if you hit or the enemy fails their save, at most once per enemy per activation/attack.

Expanded that block of text to read "If the weapon or veil attack misses, or if the target succeeds on their save against the veil affect, the effects of the enigma are wasted. If the veil effect grants multiple attack rolls, only one attack roll needs to connect to deliver the enigma's effects. The eclipse can only apply the effects of a single enigma on a given attack action or veil ability activation; if a veil grants multiple attacks against a single target as part of its activation, only one attack benefits from the enigma’s effects." That should clear up any confusion.



Now if I can just convince someone I play with to let me play the class in a real game...

Good luck! We've been having a blast with it so far!

[Ssalarn]

Apologies for the double-post, it was brought to my attention that I had skipped over a couple posters without responding the other day.


Yup, I'm aware, just a clarity thing. The idea that the temporal stasis is so hyper specific may be foreign to some and so cause chaos at the game table (I have seen/had to deal with it). Ounce of prevention and all that.

Totally get it, which is why I agreed with implementing the change.



I assumed that was specifically for the entangled condition, not necessarily for any created plantlife. Any chance we could get the text slightly amended to, "Tall grass, weeds, and other plants spring up in a 20 ft. by 20 ft. square within 40 ft. to wrap around creatures in the area of effect or those that enter the area for 1d4 rounds before dissipating."?

Done.



I might have an older version or something. I can't check the current releases because the download link has expired (I only grabbed the Eclipse and the Lucent, thinking that nothing had changed in the other docs).

Just to be sure, it was here in my copy...


Yeah, looks like that's older, at least older than my source docs. Given the amount of time that distribution can take through the Kickstarter model, I'm assuming that Christen probably isn't rolling out immediate updates but waiting until there's enough changes to warrant it.




That is generally the assumption, but when a duration becomes indefinite (something that doesn't have a proper game term) then things get fuzzy with specific trumping general and all that. Also, the wording in the Hands bind of, "you may maintain one additional instance of the veil’s primary effect indefinitely", seems to imply that it allows an additional instance that is also indefinite, something that seems unintended considering all of the vegetation is supposed to disappear in 1d4+Essence rounds.

How about adjusting the wording to something like, "While this veil is bound to your Hands chakra, you may maintain one additional separate instance of the veil’s primary effect indefinitely (so long as the veil remains bound), creating trees or...". Those two additions (or something like them) would remove all doubt of what indefinite means in this context and that it applies solely to this one instance of the power.

I am aware that it may seem like I'm beating a dead horse here but I have had to have lengthy discussions with players at the game table about ambiguous wording despite apparently clear RAI. It causes me the pain. I try to prevent the pain.

The main thing is that the whole ability is predicated upon that opening line of "While this veil is bound to your Hands chakra", but I understand your concern. I'll look into this and run it up the ladder.


Should gauntlet of the void have the wording where you can use your veilweaver level in place of your BAB to hit as other veiks do?

I came very, very close to just adding "and use veilweaver level in place of BAB" to the general rules for weapon-like veils (which would have bought me some extra word count to play with), but it was pointed out to me that there are a small number of weapon-like veils (existing and pending release) for which this would be abusable or not appropriate, so I ended up keeping the veilweaver in place of BAB text specific to each veil. In the case of the Gauntlet(s) of the Void, there was enough early confusion over how that affected weapons wielded with the bind ability of the gauntlet that we took it under review. Considering that the veil isn't even really a primary weapon while used in the Hands slot and is more of a special ability enabler that can be used as a weapon, the decision was made to put it on the (currently quite small but still present) list of weapon-like veils that don't offer that function. I'm not sure at the moment whether this is totally reflected in the playtest docs since we updated a couple veils to conform after the playtest started, but one of the loose guidelines for whether or not a veil has the "veilweaver level in place of BAB" tag is whether or not the veil appears on the vizier veil list, since that provides a solid answer to the question "Do we expect a 1/2 BAB character to be able to fight with this and hit something?"

[neversterling]

In the perspective of every non-blood, non-ring veil being a feat, should the Darkwalker Hood's constant See Invisibility be put behind 1-2 essence, as the True Seeing ability is? 2 essence would have it normally come online for a Vizier at the same level a Wizard would have access.

Does the lowered light level from Sable Shots stack with itself on multiple attacks?

Is the move action check to get up from Pooling Black's aura part of the same action to stand, or does it effectively require two move actions and a successful Strength/Escape Artist to stand up from prone in its area?

[Ssalarn]

In the perspective of every non-blood, non-ring veil being a feat, should the Darkwalker Hood's constant See Invisibility be put behind 1-2 essence, as the True Seeing ability is? 2 essence would have it normally come online for a Vizier at the same level a Wizard would have access.

It is limited to areas of dim or darker lighting, but that's probably a solid idea. I'll update accordingly.



Does the lowered light level from Sable Shots stack with itself on multiple attacks?


Yes.



Is the move action check to get up from Pooling Black's aura part of the same action to stand, or does it effectively require two move actions and a successful Strength/Escape Artist to stand up from prone in its area?

It's supposed to be one action that includes both the check and the act of standing up, but in researching your question I did see where the confusion was coming from. I'll tweak the verbage to clear that up.

[Mithril Leaf]

Two things about the Radiant playtest, one is that for some reason in Aphos's Blooded Gauntlets, there is this line:

Alternatively,​ ​you​ ​can​ ​touch​ ​a​ ​creature​ ​whose​ ​Hit​ ​Dice are​ ​less​ ​than​ ​or​ ​greater​ ​than​ ​your​ ​own​ ​to​ ​deal​ ​1​ ​point​ ​of​ ​Constitution​ ​damage​ ​to them​ ​and​ ​restore​ ​5​ ​hit points​ ​to​ ​yourself,​
And I don't think that it's intended to specifically exclude creatures with exactly your hit dice. Maybe it is though.

Secondly, could I request that the Radiant gets access to Heaven's Blessing? It's thematically appropriate in both a mechanical and flavorful sense. A class based on using light to heal and buff should probably get access to a Veil that's a buff caused by "Runes of white light".

[Ssalarn]

Two things about the Radiant playtest, one is that for some reason in Aphos's Blooded Gauntlets, there is this line:

And I don't think that it's intended to specifically exclude creatures with exactly your hit dice. Maybe it is though.

Yeah, I caught this one a while back. It now reads- "[...] Alternatively, you can make a melee touch attack against a creature, forcing them to succeed on a Fortitude saving throw or suffer 1 point of Constitution damage; if the Hit Dice of a target who fails their saving throw are equal to or greater than your own, this attack heals you for 5 hit points ."

Thanks for looking out! Let me know if there's any lingering confusion in that new text.



Secondly, could I request that the Radiant gets access to Heaven's Blessing? It's thematically appropriate in both a mechanical and flavorful sense. A class based on using light to heal and buff should probably get access to a Veil that's a buff caused by "Runes of white light".

Agreed, definite oversight there. I've added Heaven's Blessing to the Radiant veil list and made the appropriate updates in the source docs.


Also, just as a heads up, since feedback has slowed down quite a bit and all the classes got a pretty thorough playtesting gauntlet through convention season as part of the Co7S Kickstarter tour, I believe we're sending these classes over for editing in preparation for layout very soon. We've got some other materials that are going to be following hot on their tails so we want the new akashic materials finalized and made available for purchase in the relatively near future. If you have any pending feedback or unanswered questions, let me know and I'll try and jump right on it.

[Quarian Rex]

Yeah, I caught this one a while back. It now reads- "[...] Alternatively, you can make a melee touch attack against a creature, forcing them to succeed on a Fortitude saving throw or suffer 1 point of Constitution damage; if the Hit Dice of a target who fails their saving throw are equal to or greater than your own, this attack heals you for 5 hit points ."


This sort of thing has always grated on me a bit. I know that it is an adjustment to counter the bag-of-rats problem but I think that such things swing the pendulum too far and create more problems by cutting out a ridiculously large swath of targets. Any chance of getting this sort of thing changed to, "if the Hit Dice of a target who fails their saving throw are equal to or greater than half your own", instead? Allows the ability to be used on most mooks, or to have the town mayor make a sacrifice to heal a battered hero before a final battle. It would provide interesting options while still eliminating most abuse.

Thoughts?

[Ssalarn]

This sort of thing has always grated on me a bit. I know that it is an adjustment to counter the bag-of-rats problem but I think that such things swing the pendulum too far and create more problems by cutting out a ridiculously large swath of targets. Any chance of getting this sort of thing changed to, "if the Hit Dice of a target who fails their saving throw are equal to or greater than half your own", instead? Allows the ability to be used on most mooks, or to have the town mayor make a sacrifice to heal a battered hero before a final battle. It would provide interesting options while still eliminating most abuse.

Thoughts?


I think that we can work with that suggestion, yeah. Hit Die equal to or greater than half tracks with other mechanics like gunslinger grit and should still be a reasonable limitation.

[Quarian Rex]

I think that we can work with that suggestion, yeah. Hit Die equal to or greater than half tracks with other mechanics like gunslinger grit and should still be a reasonable limitation.

Muchly appreciated.

[calyst]

Alot of different veils that add to stealth and acrobatics but none of them stack, of particular note Cloak of Darkness and Darkwalker Hood both do insight to stealth and are in the same thematic set but don't work together.

[khadgar567]

Alot of different veils that add to stealth and acrobatics but none of them stack, of particular note Cloak of Darkness and Darkwalker Hood both do insight to stealth and are in the same thematic set but don't work together.
yeah i see that to for class who's focus is darkness and stealth it feels like missing some omph to do its job maybe all bonuses stacking might help to give eclipse a power it needs.

[calyst]

For me the Darkwalker Hood felt like it should be perception as there was already a stealth one in that set, and the abilities it gives seem more perception related.

[Ssalarn]

Alot of different veils that add to stealth and acrobatics but none of them stack, of particular note Cloak of Darkness and Darkwalker Hood both do insight to stealth and are in the same thematic set but don't work together.


Darkwalker Hood is actually out of date in the playtest doc. Currently it grants a bonus to Perception and Sleight of Hand instead of Stealth. Thank you for the call-out though, that would have been a bad item to overlook since each set is expected to be entirely functional and compatible as a unit.


yeah i see that to for class who's focus is darkness and stealth it feels like missing some omph to do its job maybe all bonuses stacking might help to give eclipse a power it needs.

As a general rule, veil bonuses not stacking is very intentional to preserve the basic framework of the game. Between gaining stealth as a class skill, the competence bonus from the shadow armor version of their occultation, the insight bonuses from one of the Stealth veils, and the eclipse's ability to obfuscate their presence with darkness, enigmas, and illusions, the eclipse shouldn't be having many issues related to their facility with Stealth.

The eclipse has further benefits in that their occultations can allow them to fight without actually being too near combat; even a 1st level eclipse can hide in a nook or cranny while channeling their attacks through their occultation and avoiding any direct danger. Basically, the eclipse has one of the most robust skill sets for participating in combat while minimizing risks that you're likely to see on a character outside of a full caster, and even then they'll have advantages in when they gain the abilities and how often they can use them.

Other Changes
I also wanted to mention that we made a few small tweaks to the Darklord capstone- there is no longer a penalty imposed for being in bright or normal light, you just don't get the bonus. The bonus type granted by Darklord has been changed to circumstance to allow it to stack with a broader array of abilities.

The Pooling Black veil now lowers the light level within its radius by 1 step in addition to its other effects.

Using Nothingness Shroud's bind ability now lowers the light level in a 30 foot radius around you for a number of rounds equal to 1 + 1/essence.

Using Void Countenance's bind ability now lowers the light level in the cone's area of effect by 1 step for a number of rounds equal to 1 + 1/essence.

I have one last massive testing packet to finish today for a job I'm trying to get, and then I need to get the Time Handbook playtest out for Drop Dead Studios (I'm already a few days late due to unanticipated delays like interviews and higher priority work requests from DDS), but after that I'll try and post a complete list of all the updates made between the time the last playtest documents were generated and now so anyone helping out with playtesting and reviews can quickly check to see if any of their notes have already been addressed.

[NomGarret]

I found a couple more minor edits. The Nexus and Eclipse docs are missing a Chakra Binds description. Radiant has one. Eclipse is also missing Chakra Bind (Body) in the table.

[Ssalarn]

I found a couple more minor edits. The Nexus and Eclipse docs are missing a Chakra Binds description. Radiant has one. Eclipse is also missing Chakra Bind (Body) in the table.

Updated accrdingly, thanks for the catch!

[NomGarret]

Making sure I'm reading these right. The special ability for Dark Intensity only applies to the bonus shape provided, and would not also apply to double shaping via Twin Veil, is that correct? So if I have Twin Veil (Feet) and two veils shaped to both feet and hands, I'd get the bonus effect for hands but not feet?

If you shape more weaponlike veils than you have hands to wield them, do you have to use the usual actions to stash and switch between them? For instance, if I have both Sable Shots and Ebon Stars, do I have to spend actions holstering one set before drawing the other?

[Ssalarn]

Making sure I'm reading these right. The special ability for Dark Intensity only applies to the bonus shape provided, and would not also apply to double shaping via Twin Veil, is that correct? So if I have Twin Veil (Feet) and two veils shaped to both feet and hands, I'd get the bonus effect for hands but not feet?

Correct. The benefits from Dark Intensity are specific to the slot you bind that specific veil in.



If you shape more weaponlike veils than you have hands to wield them, do you have to use the usual actions to stash and switch between them? For instance, if I have both Sable Shots and Ebon Stars, do I have to spend actions holstering one set before drawing the other?

I'm actually glad you brought this up because it drew my attention to another issue: during development of the nexus we wanted to try and condense as many of the individual weapon-like veil rules as possible. The eclipse veils were written assuming that this had already happened, and I only just caught that we had not made that final update in the appropriate places across all documents. The weapon-like veils rules now read as follows:

"Weapon-like Veils: Weapon-like veils are veils that can be wielded and used as a weapon, such as the Loyal Paladin’s Spear of Light or the Sword of Justice. These veils use the same damage dice and critical statistics as any weapon they are described as acting as. Veilweavers are always proficient with any weapon-like veil they shape. Veils that grant selectable weapon enhancements, such as the Reaper’s Scythe, may choose which weapon enhancements to use each time essence is invested. If a weapon-like veil is disarmed or otherwise removed or released from your grasp, it immediately dissipates and can be reformed as a free action on your next turn; this supersedes the limitations on previously published weapon-like veils, such as Loyal Paladin’s Spear of Light, which states that it requires a swift action to recover. "

I also clarified the Wrist bind of the Sword of Justice to accomodate this update as follows:

"Chakra Bind (Wrists): [D7, N8] Binding this veil to your Wrists chakra grants you all the benefits of binding it to your Hands chakra, and you may wield the Sword of Justice as a thrown weapon with a range increment of 10 ft. + 5 ft. per point of essence invested. When used as a thrown weapon the Sword of Justice does not dissipate for leaving your grasp and returns to you after the attack is resolved; if you no longer have a free hand after resolving an attack in this manner, the Sword of Justice dissipates as normal. Whenever you confirm a critical hit with your Sword of Justice, each enemy adjacent to the target of your attack takes 1d6 fire damage, plus an additional 1d6 fire damage per point of essence invested (Reflex half). "

This let us trim some text out of the nexus and normalize interactions. In the case of the eclipse with both Sable Shots and Ebon Flails you have two options:

1) Drop the currently wielded weapons and form the other pair (both free actions).

2) All of the paired veils allow you to form "up to" two of the specified weapons. So you also have the option of forming one flail and one hand crossbow.

[Ssalarn]

Here's that change log list I promised earlier. This should cover the majority of changes made since the last update to the playtest docs. There might be a couple Radiant items missing since those were tracked in a different document I can't access at the moment, but I'll add those in when I catch them. I'll try and update this with any other changes you guys find between now and the release of the new classes.



Added Extra Essence Capacity class feature to the Nexus class text (not just the table)
Companion entry added to Akasha and Magic.
Evil and necromancy added to the descriptors section of the Vanth’s Eyes veil.
Cloak of Darkness added to the Shoulders entry of the Nexus veil list
Eclipse entry added to Bracers of Oblivion veil
Eclipse entry added to Ferryman’s Cloak
Eclipse entry added to Mask of the Nosoi
Eclipse entry added to Reaper’s Scythe
Corrected Pit Fiend’s Shroud so that bind says “frightened instead of shaken” rather than “frightened instead of panicked”
Eclipse entry added to Pit Fiend’s Shroud
Eclipse entry added to Shackles of Perdition
Eclipse entry added to Spore Wings
Changed “ For each point of essence invested in this ability” to “ For each point of essence invested in this veil” in the Sword of Justice “Essence” entry.
Added a “.” to the last sentence of the Sword of Justice Hands bind entry
Gauntlets of the Void added to the Hands and Wrists entries of the Nexus veil list
Grasping Black added to the Shoulders entry of the Nexus veil list
Voidblade added to the Hands and Body entries of the Nexus veil list
Added the following line to the end of the Tier 4 Hells convergence: “Devils summoned by this ability return to the Hells one hour after they are summoned, or when you dismiss them as a standard action.”
Fixed copy/paste error in the Babau Skin veil’s flavor text. It now reads “A leathery layer of slime-coated flesh oozes with magic as it forms around your body.”
Updated Mantle of Infernal Dukedom to have better scaling and remove redundant text.
Added mind-affecting tag to Voice of the Janni and included the following line at the end of the bind entry: “, but works against all such creatures, including mindless elementals that would otherwise be immune”.
Updated all instances of the “lawful” descriptor to “law”
Added the law descriptor to the Breastplate of the Righteous and Iron Crown veils.
Added “(perfect)” after the lucent’s fly speed entry
Dark Intensity updated to refer to "up to two weapons" instead of "up two weapons"
Added the chaos descriptor to the following veils: Balor’s Whip, Demon Lord’s Hunger, Dretch Flesh, Shahzada’s Dissolution, Spore Wings, Vrock’s Screech
Updated the Halo of Holy Light veil’s bind to refer to “good-aligned” clerics instead of “good” clerics.
Darkwalker Hood updated to grant bonuses to Perception and Sleight of Hand instead of Stealth.
Darklord capstone updated- there is no longer a penalty imposed for being in bright or normal light, you just don't get the bonus. The bonus type granted by Darklord has been changed to circumstance to allow it to stack with a broader array of abilities.
The Pooling Black veil now lowers the light level within its radius by 1 step in addition to its other effects.
Using Nothingness Shroud's bind ability now lowers the light level in a 30 foot radius around you for a number of rounds equal to 1 + 1/essence.
Using Void Countenance's bind ability now lowers the light level in the cone's area of effect by 1 step for a number of rounds equal to 1 + 1/essence.
Weapon-like veils entry updated to read as follows: "Weapon-like Veils: Weapon-like veils are veils that can be wielded and used as a weapon, such as the Loyal Paladin’s Spear of Light or the Sword of Justice. These veils use the same damage dice and critical statistics as any weapon they are described as acting as. Veilweavers are always proficient with any weapon-like veil they shape. Veils that grant selectable weapon enhancements, such as the Reaper’s Scythe, may choose which weapon enhancements to use each time essence is invested. If a weapon-like veil is disarmed or otherwise removed or released from your grasp, it immediately dissipates and can be reformed as a free action on your next turn; this supersedes the limitations on previously published weapon-like veils, such as Loyal Paladin’s Spear of Light, which states that it requires a swift action to recover. "
Sword of Justice wording adjusted to accommodate weapon-like veil updates.
Priestess' Clasp of Rebirth updated to refer to the "reincarnate spell, rather than reincarnte veil.
1+veilweaving modifier per creature limitation added to Criniere of Warding's healing option.
Radiant FCBs updated to correct copy/paste error.




“transmute rock to mud” in the Shahzada’s Dissolution Shoulder bind lost its italicization
“detect poison” in the first sentence of the Imp’s Eyes mechanics entry lost its italicization



I believe editing is largely complete at this point for the new akashic materials, and we're just waiting on some background graphics to finish being produced before we start moving them into layout. We'll have some announcements about upcoming products in the Co7S akashic line about that time.

[Biapolis]

I'm glad you ended up pleasantly surprised! Out of curiosity, was there anything specific you can think of about the description that had turned you off initially?

A bit late, but I figure I might as well get to this. It mostly just didn't read as something I'd enjoy. Using shadows to hinder your foes just isn't my kind of thing. Summoning shadow dragon mounts/weapons/clones and jumping around through shadows is a good deal more neat.

[Ssalarn]

A bit late, but I figure I might as well get to this. It mostly just didn't read as something I'd enjoy. Using shadows to hinder your foes just isn't my kind of thing. Summoning shadow dragon mounts/weapons/clones and jumping around through shadows is a good deal more neat.


Gotchya. Was that more from the Kickstarter description then, or the description in the class itself? Just trying to dig through so I can see whether it was more of an issue we've already moved past or if there's still some text we can brush up to make the class more appealing at a glance.

[Biapolis]

Oh, no, definitely the kickstarter blurb. The stuff in the preview doc looks good.

[Ssalarn]

As we wait for the Eclipse, Nexus, and Radiant to finish making their way through editing and layout before we make any other big announcements, I thought I'd share a link to the most recent Lost Spheres blog post where Christen teases some new art for Aphos, God of the Faith Devoured (https://lostspherespublishing.wordpress.com/2018/02/06/struck-dumb-with-awe/) general bad guy and vampire deity from the City of Seven Seraphs whose name you might recognize from the Radiant's Circle of Six veil set.
If you haven't seen them yet and would like to check out the new akashic classes as part of the backer-only playtest, there's a preorder link at the bottom of the Aphos blog post; playtest assets are usually sent out within a week of placing a preorder.

[Kaouse]

I heard this book would be adding some Spheres support as well as Aegis support. I don't suppose, perhaps in my wildest dreams, that this book could give the Aegis some Sphere-based customizations?

[khadgar567]

I heard this book would be adding some Spheres support as well as Aegis support. I don't suppose, perhaps in my wildest dreams, that this book could give the Aegis some Sphere-based customizations?
I hope its true caıuse i like to have aegis with magic as playable concept

[Lost_Spheres]

khadgar567 and Kaouse,

We have reason to believe you both will be happy about something then.... ;)

After all, one our major missions is to prove how cool synthesizing content from other 3pp can be...

[khadgar567]

khadgar567 and Kaouse,

We have reason to believe you both will be happy about something then.... ;)

After all, one our major missions is to prove how cool synthesizing content from other 3pp can be...
halle freakin lujah that was the news i need to hear and its mage my freakin day

[Kaouse]

I hope its true caıuse i like to have aegis with magic as playable concept

You should take a look at the "Host of Heroes" Archetype for the Aegis. Basically trns the Aegis into a Medium, and gives them limited access to spellcasting (up to 4th level @ level 18). It's all kinds of awesome.


khadgar567 and Kaouse,

We have reason to believe you both will be happy about something then.... ;)

After all, one our major missions is to prove how cool synthesizing content from other 3pp can be...

YAAAAASSSSSSSSS.

Aegis can already trade out proficiencies for a martial tradition, but native access to Spheres of Power would really cement the Aegis as the best class in the history of everything forever.

[khadgar567]

You should take a look at the "Host of Heroes" Archetype for the Aegis. Basically trns the Aegis into a Medium, and gives them limited access to spellcasting (up to 4th level @ level 18). It's all kinds of awesome.

I meant ability to cast regular magic as modification but i take sphere casting any day of week instead of regular magic.

[digiman619]

Aegis can already trade out proficiencies for a martial tradition, but native access to Spheres of Power would really cement the Aegis as the best class in the history of everything forever.
If only Soulknives were so lucky...

[Ssalarn]

YAAAAASSSSSSSSS.

Aegis can already trade out proficiencies for a martial tradition, but native access to Spheres of Power would really cement the Aegis as the best class in the history of everything forever.

Don't quote me on this, but to your point, when Christen responded to whether there would be "spheres" support, I don't believe that was limited to just Spheres of Power. I know he is a fan of Spheres of Might also, and has talked previously about wanting to incorporate that as well, if possible. I'm really not sure what all is actually being included/supported at this point since the book will be fully functional as a standalone product, but I know that the considerations given to popular 3pp products have been extensively examined.

And yeah, it really does seem like the aegis' "hidden" class feature is a key that unlocks the door to every other subsystem :smalltongue:



If only Soulknives were so lucky...

I think Soulknives just kind of fall into a weird place. When I made the decision to introduce a much larger number of weapon-like veils, I knew as I did it that it meant the akashic classes would step on the soulknife's toes a bit more; that's actually a significant part of what informed numerous design decisions in AM, like the small number of weapon-like veils, weapon-like veils typically having a fixed list of weapon enhancements, the "shield" veils requiring an actual shield to kind of hang on, and even the vizier's veilshifting not auto-binding until high levels. During development on AM, Andreas stressed that he really wanted to make sure the soulknife didn't lose too much of its value compared to other classes that had the option to create their own weapons on demand, so that molded a surprising amount of what happened in AM.

Moving on to City of 7 Seraphs, I knew that psionics would be supported, but also that the soulknife was not going to be part of the core class line-up in the book. Since Lost Spheres is also a different company, it meant that that niche was no longer entirely reserved and we could push into that territory a bit more with new weapons and abilities. I've still tried to preserve those original limitations to one degree or another, but it is true that in Co7S there are 6 supported classes that can all whip up a new and different magic weapon on at least a daily basis, not to mention the archetypes and other options that open those weapon-like veils up to other classes. While the soulknife still has things like blade skills and psychic strikes, we've kind of overlapped heavily with his main schtick of being able to create his own custom weapons. The fact that there's also going to be spheres support, with SoP including the Armorist, means that while the soulknife may still get archetype and feat support somewhere in the product line, it doesn't have the uniqueness of concept that the aegis still kind of has to make it a priority class for support.

[digiman619]

I think Soulknives just kind of fall into a weird place. When I made the decision to introduce a much larger number of weapon-like veils, I knew as I did it that it meant the akashic classes would step on the soulknife's toes a bit more; that's actually a significant part of what informed numerous design decisions in AM, like the small number of weapon-like veils, weapon-like veils typically having a fixed list of weapon enhancements, the "shield" veils requiring an actual shield to kind of hang on, and even the vizier's veilshifting not auto-binding until high levels. During development on AM, Andreas stressed that he really wanted to make sure the soulknife didn't lose too much of its value compared to other classes that had the option to create their own weapons on demand, so that molded a surprising amount of what happened in AM.

Moving on to City of 7 Seraphs, I knew that psionics would be supported, but also that the soulknife was not going to be part of the core class line-up in the book. Since Lost Spheres is also a different company, it meant that that niche was no longer entirely reserved and we could push into that territory a bit more with new weapons and abilities. I've still tried to preserve those original limitations to one degree or another, but it is true that in Co7S there are 6 supported classes that can all whip up a new and different magic weapon on at least a daily basis, not to mention the archetypes and other options that open those weapon-like veils up to other classes. While the soulknife still has things like blade skills and psychic strikes, we've kind of overlapped heavily with his main schtick of being able to create his own custom weapons. The fact that there's also going to be spheres support, with SoP including the Armorist, means that while the soulknife may still get archetype and feat support somewhere in the product line, it doesn't have the uniqueness of concept that the aegis still kind of has to make it a priority class for support.

While I'm in no position to tell you how to design stuff, saying that the Soulknife doesn't have the "uniqueness of concept" is kind of like saying Dungeons and Dragons doesn't have "uniqueness of concept" because Hackmaster exists. Especially since the Aegis started off as an alternate Soulknife (The Soul Bastion; pg 11 of High Psionics: Soulknives by Dreamscarred Press in 2007; two years before Pathfinder even existed). I mean, by your own admission, you broke previous guidelines and took the soulknife's shtick.

Maybe it's just sour grapes, but the Soulknife getting shafted and not getting an Akashic archetype still bugs me, and here's the new akashic thing coming out and takes his gimmick. All I'm saying is that if the Soulknife doesn't get a spheres archetype (preferably one SoM and one SoP, but one Champion (both) will do), I will be miffed. And you don't want to annoy people on the internet. They are so calm normally.

[Ssalarn]

While I'm in no position to tell you how to design stuff, saying that the Soulknife doesn't have the "uniqueness of concept" is kind of like saying Dungeons and Dragons doesn't have "uniqueness of concept" because Hackmaster exists.

As a freelancer, I generally fulfill the requests of my publishers. The exact leeway I have in what I produce varies; sometimes the requests are very specific and sometimes I get some wiggle room to innovate some original solutions and ideas. One of the reasons I didn't do an akashic archetype for the soulknife in AM was actually that I was under the impression at the time that there was going to be an akashic archetype for it in Psionics Augmented: Soulknives, though that ultimately didn't happen. By the time I knew it wasn't happening, I was already largely out of the design phase with AM and trying to get it pushed through development. Since then, the soulknife has really become less and less appealing to design for; there's other classes in popular systems that do what the soulknife does plus some, like Drop Dead Studio's Armorist, which can have both spherecasting and martial talents added to a chassis, as well as a significant number of core classes that can do a majority of what the soulknife does plus a bunch of other things. Since I never know as a freelancer what's going to blow up into the next big thing and what is going to kind of languish in obscurity, when I do have design leeway I generally want to focus as much of that word count on ideas that are going to be accessible to the widest number of players. For example, a feat/spell/talent/veil is going to support more characters than a blade skill, so if I have 150 words to work with, it's going to make more sense to choose an option that supports 3+ classes than an option that only supports one.



Especially since the Aegis started off as an alternate Soulknife (The Soul Bastion; pg 11 of High Psionics: Soulknives by Dreamscarred Press in 2007; two years before Pathfinder even existed). I mean, by your own admission, you broke previous guidelines and took the soulknife's shtick.

And yet the aegis is supported in more products than the soulknife pretty consistently because of its broader modular nature. I think "makes weapons" is such a narrow schtick that it's hard not to kind of trample on that with any item creation/enhancement gimmick class or build, usually with resource left over to do something totally different as well. And I definitely didn't take the soulknife's schtick, that was overlapped many times over before I even started writing. DSP didn't want to compete with their own materials at the time I was working on AM (though there are a ton of options now that do that both from DSP and the wider market), but when I'm writing for Lost Spheres and I know that our books are going to support materials from DDS (which offers the armiger, armorist, artisan, blacksmith etc.), and core (with numerous weapon creation options across numerous classes), it doesn't make sense for me to protect something that's outside of our mission statement and has already been overlapped by numerous other options. Given that there's so many options out there that have some kind of weapon creation/enhancement gimmick, it really felt better to offer the akashic weapons (which have been super well-received) than to not explore that territory in favor of a class that's already got a bunch of other classes and archetypes (in core and 3pp) overlapping the weapon creation gimmick.




Maybe it's just sour grapes, but the Soulknife getting shafted and not getting an Akashic archetype still bugs me, and here's the new akashic thing coming out and takes his gimmick. All I'm saying is that if the Soulknife doesn't get a spheres archetype (preferably one SoM and one SoP, but one Champion (both) will do), I will be miffed. And you don't want to annoy people on the internet. They are so calm normally.

The limitations I was working with before are largely all still in place, with the exception that there are now more veils that can be used as weapons which created an important thematic building block for the classes they're associated with. They're still specific to a limited number of enhancements in most cases, they use character resource that can't be used elsewhere, etc. I've continued to preserve the soulknife as much as I can while still meeting the needs of the people paying me and the general inclinations of the market. If you happen to be one of DSP's Patreon backers, I'd strongly encourage using their voting system to push them towards offering more soulknife support; by and large publishers are going to make the products that there are demand for.

If I were going to do an akashic soulknife archetype (and no one has currently contracted me to do so), I'd probably remove their "build your own weapon" component and give them a single slot that can be used for any weapon-like veil with scaling binds and the ability to veilshift into any other weapon-like veil with increasing efficiency.
The original idea I'd had was actually moving away from the weapon association entirely and focusing on the soulknife's other abilities, like building up their ability to manifest solid objects and expand them into more of a Green Lantern type who can reshape a veil or veils into platforms and other physical objects to give them more of a distinct niche that isn't overlapped by veilweavers, DDS's Armorist, paladins, magii, magus (mindblades), anyone with the instant weapon spell, characters who can cast create armaments and enhance their own weapons, characters casting force sword, etc. I think broadening the soulknife's niche would be something that would go a long ways towards justifying dedicating page count to it.

If any publisher is interested in supporting the soulknife, I'm more than happy to provide the material, but up to this point that just hasn't been the case.

[Lost_Spheres]

While I'm in no position to tell you how to design stuff, saying that the Soulknife doesn't have the "uniqueness of concept" is kind of like saying Dungeons and Dragons doesn't have "uniqueness of concept" because Hackmaster exists. Especially since the Aegis started off as an alternate Soulknife (The Soul Bastion; pg 11 of High Psionics: Soulknives by Dreamscarred Press in 2007; two years before Pathfinder even existed). I mean, by your own admission, you broke previous guidelines and took the soulknife's shtick.

Maybe it's just sour grapes, but the Soulknife getting shafted and not getting an Akashic archetype still bugs me, and here's the new akashic thing coming out and takes his gimmick. All I'm saying is that if the Soulknife doesn't get a spheres archetype (preferably one SoM and one SoP, but one Champion (both) will do), I will be miffed. And you don't want to annoy people on the internet. They are so calm normally.

Digiman,

Firstly, we love soulknives! We are glad you do too. And we really appreciate the feedback. While most of our preliminary design work is done, we will take along look at soulknife and make sure its Co7S options as good as they can be. That said, as a designers (and publishers) we do try to tackle shortages where we see them, and we totally agree with you about soulknife! Lost Spheres already did do some prestige class work (including one that would allow it to merge with a veil weapon) and a mythic path designed to work with soulknife a year or so ago in Book of Beyond series. Until Co7S hit development it was one of the psionic classes we'd done content for actually. Don't rule out Spheres cross-over though... (see below) Still, I'd love to see a sea of new blade skills, archetypes and such for it out there and now that I see a bit more demand for it, maybe we will come back to it.

All of that said, the major thrust of the book is actually an interconnective setting piece and most of our mechanics are story driven. The three new akashic classes exist to address some specific story points around the City's unique supernature. So does our re-examining of Aegis. But a lot of other mechanical options are built into story and setting organizations. For instance, the Blackblades are a Parity focused on Destruction. They are also quite found of Blades. So if there were to be some sort of Destruction focused Blade archetype... that might be more in a section like that Organization's... as a totally random example. ;)

[digiman619]

@Sslarn, Lost_Spheres: Thanks for your replies. I am looking forward to the finished product. I was just venting about how it seems the Soulknife gets the short end of the stick. I'm just being an angry fanboy, you're doing great as far as I see.

[The Shadowmind]

With the mention of bridging between systems, is there a Psionic/Initiator theurge PrC?

[digiman619]

With the mention of bridging between systems, is there a Psionic/Initiator theurge PrC?

Um, there already is one... (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/prestige-classes/awakened-blade)

[The Shadowmind]

Um, there already is one... (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/prestige-classes/awakened-blade)

So there is. Not sure how I missed it, but thank you.

[Ssalarn]

@Sslarn, Lost_Spheres: Thanks for your replies. I am looking forward to the finished product. I was just venting about how it seems the Soulknife gets the short end of the stick. I'm just being an angry fanboy, you're doing great as far as I see.

We definitely appreciate the response :smallsmile:

It looks like Christen will be including some soulknife support in Co7S, and I'll keep your input in mind for future projects (though I've already written the next handbook in the series and there are only 3 archetypes in it, none of which are for the soulknife, so it might be a bit before I, personally, have the opportunity to get some akashic soulknife support added).

[AlienFromBeyond]

If I were going to do an akashic soulknife archetype (and no one has currently contracted me to do so), I'd probably remove their "build your own weapon" component and give them a single slot that can be used for any weapon-like veil with scaling binds and the ability to veilshift into any other weapon-like veil with increasing efficiency.
The original idea I'd had was actually moving away from the weapon association entirely and focusing on the soulknife's other abilities, like building up their ability to manifest solid objects and expand them into more of a Green Lantern type who can reshape a veil or veils into platforms and other physical objects to give them more of a distinct niche that isn't overlapped by veilweavers, DDS's Armorist, paladins, magii, magus (mindblades), anyone with the instant weapon spell, characters who can cast create armaments and enhance their own weapons, characters casting force sword, etc. I think broadening the soulknife's niche would be something that would go a long ways towards justifying dedicating page count to it.
This is definitely the kind of route I would take as well. Even just a single blade skill that gives you Shape Veil with a weapon-like veil and have it count as your mind blade for everything else would be useful, as the soulknife now actually has quite a few very good and interesting blade skills to play with, and applying them to a veil could be fun.

Green Lantern inspiration for a full-on akashic/unchained soulknife is definitely intriguing as well.

[Air0r]

unchained soulknife

has something happened that I have missed?

[digiman619]

has something happened that I have missed?

Basically I whined that Aegii get all the love instead of Soulknives and Ssalrn told me why they didn't have any akashic support and what his idea for what an Akashic Soulknife would be, and Lost_Sphere mentioned that he had plans for a Sphere Soulknife.

[AlienFromBeyond]

My concern about a Sphere Soulknife is how you differentiate it from Armorist or even the Doomblade Mageknight archetype.

[digiman619]

My concern about a Sphere Soulknife is how you differentiate it from Armorist or even the Doomblade Mageknight archetype.

You're assuming Spheres of Power. It might be a Spheres of Might archetype (or possibly a Champion archetype, we'll have to wait).

[AlienFromBeyond]

You're assuming Spheres of Power. It might be a Spheres of Might archetype (or possibly a Champion archetype, we'll have to wait).
Sphere Class archetypes are for SoP as laid out by SoP and SoP:E, SoM used actual original names for its conversaion archetypes (thankfully!). More than that though, I'm going off of this:
For instance, the Blackblades are a Parity focused on Destruction. They are also quite found of Blades. So if there were to be some sort of Destruction focused Blade archetype... that might be more in a section like that Organization's... as a totally random example. ;)
So you can see why I instantly went to a Spheres of Power oriented archetype :smallwink:. SoM is pretty nice for a Psychic Strike oriented Soulknife though since you can charge and then attack action in one turn, so I certainly wouldn't be opposed to an archetype using SoM instead of SoP instead (though a combination aka CotS could be good too).

[digiman619]

Sphere Class archetypes are for SoP as laid out by SoP and SoP:E, SoM used actual original names for its conversaion archetypes (thankfully!). More than that though, I'm going off of this:

So you can see why I instantly went to a Spheres of Power oriented archetype :smallwink:. SoM is pretty nice for a Psychic Strike oriented Soulknife though since you can charge and then attack action in one turn, so I certainly wouldn't be opposed to an archetype using SoM instead of SoP instead (though a combination aka CotS could be good too).

Yeah, I'm holding out for it being like the Sage in that a Sphere Soulknife gets a caster level and some destruction (and maybe enhancement or creation) talents, but is mostly limited to an adept progression.

[khadgar567]

Yeah, I'm holding out for it being like the Sage in that a Sphere Soulknife gets a caster level and some destruction (and maybe enhancement or creation) talents, but is mostly limited to an adept progression.
or have a unique sphere to support it. that way even incanter can join the psionic unlimited blade works fun. So spheres and akasha in same book getting shared material. my money is on new spheres to merge both systems but hey lets wait and see shall we?

[Mithril Leaf]

Idea pitch: An Arsenal Trick to let the Armorist trade enhancement bonus on his armor for Aegis customizations, I'm thinking a 2 to 1 ratio points for bonus.

[Ssalarn]

Basically I whined that Aegii get all the love instead of Soulknives and Ssalrn told me why they didn't have any akashic support and what his idea for what an Akashic Soulknife would be, and Lost_Sphere mentioned that he had plans for a Sphere Soulknife.

I was thinking of you during the most recent internal development round of the Time Handbook for Drop Dead Studios and decided I'd include a little soulknife support just in case you couldn't wait any longer for a sphere soulknife. We've just opened up the beta for public input and feedback, so if you're curious, come check it out here! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?552108-Drop-Dead-Studios-Time-Handbook-Open-Beta-Alternate-Timeline&p=22875044#post22875044)

While I'm here, a quick update: the akashic classes from Co7S are well into editing and layout, so expect to see them made available with art and fully developed accoutrements in the very near future. Once those have gone out to everyone, we're going to be priming up the next akashic release in the Co7S setting, the Zodiac. This will be an independent release in the product line, and not part of the main Co7S book or Kickstarter. The zodiac is an akashic binder and will come with new (and revamped classic) veils, feats, and archetypes. Included with those archetypes is a new fighter archetype; unfortunately I wrote the akashic warrior from AM before books like the WMH and AMH were available, and a lot of the trades I made at that time are significantly less attractive now, so we'll have a newer and more modern archetype with some matching themes to go alongside the zodiac. I don't have a firm date on when the zodiac is going to be available yet, but I'll let you know when we're closer to release.

[digiman619]

I was thinking of you during the most recent internal development round of the Time Handbook for Drop Dead Studios and decided I'd include a little soulknife support just in case you couldn't wait any longer for a sphere soulknife. We've just opened up the beta for public input and feedback, so if you're curious, come check it out here! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?552108-Drop-Dead-Studios-Time-Handbook-Open-Beta-Alternate-Timeline&p=22875044#post22875044).
Thank you! I was mostly just venting and I didn't expect such a result. Now to wait for a GM that will let me use it...