How to explain a bunch of house rules are not....well good

[finaldooms]

Hi ya folks..so im normally dm for ...well ALL the games my friends play and i needed a change F pace so one of my players wanted to dm, which i was oj with and told him id help as needed then

Sooo..first thing he does is change healingwhen resting to (con mod +2)*lvl ( it was originally going to be heal skill x2 on yourself and you could spend an hr healing someone before rest for just heal skill)
..was like ok thats..,ok i guess ( it still hurts mundanea mostly) and yes neg,con does affect the healing so..yup

Then .,he helped me. Run a dungeon before and i had made a trip goliath ( spiked chain. And crap ac) who was supposed to just help the party stay alive via much needed CC ...accidentally took out just about everything solo including an ettin as the boss..they just could not roll higher than a 2



Sooooo since its just 2 people,in this game (me and another player) we decided to do muscle and face with me as muscle. .so i got permisson to make my tripper again ( we are not super optimizing btw) and other guy,made a bard
We have poor spot ( our fault both at neg wis) but were with a caravan and got made,to scout..ok fine

We,went ahead for 30 mins..somehow missed a giant slaughter of our caravan behind us aside feom the the last scream and the enemy had time to dig a pitfall trap in the middle of the road ( which we obviously did not see and then triggered) there goes 7 of my 12 hp and 4 of the bards 6 hp ( con penalty and uses a bow..no plans for melee from him ever)
So we climb out and we explain to the DM that if we fought ANYTHING it would have to be like 1 or 2 low cr monsters because he just about killed us with a trap and i used my 2 bought potions for minimum healing ( stupid dice)

So we spens time atthe ruined caravan tryin ( and failing) to figure out what happened and decide to go back to the town we came from ( after buring the remains...just in case) on tge way back we end up surprise atracked by 2 bug bears! ..they miss and we ..i kill them with decent ease because you know..im all combat and good at it ( this is a CR ...4?ish fight btw with just 2 people) ..well dm is not to happy about that movung on

We rest..,find out bout the new rest rule out of no where
K...we get up walk an hr and suddenly wolves ( no check) k they are LARGE wolves (2 of em) ..anyways they are being hostile so my guy gets ready to keep them,off the bars by steping forward and readying an,action( which the DM hates btw) they attack me,and i trip them obviously ( hey im the 13ac CC smasher)
Roll,max damage...and no,fort,save? ...hmm,thats a bit weird ( i go look upnwolves and find out he increases them by 2hd which mafe them large and gave the increases ( each wolf now has 60ish hp)
Then a wolf comes out behind us! This one medium sized..ans before the bard can,act..it,kills,him!! ( max damage + free wolf trip and the bard faiks the,massive damage fort save)
....great..well through the jse of readied actions and aoo i end up killing the 2 large wolves ( in case anyone last track 2 4hd wolves plus large and a medium 2hd wolf) and the little one runs
End the game so far....

Now seeing as how the game has been going,i ask if i can do a warforged arti if i die..he says yes but if i make golems i can only,make 3 total ( not counting bomucli) ..ok reasonable restriction so i agree.
He looks over warforged and says looks fine just remind hin the pros and cons
...i list everything and suddenly he goes...THEY HAVE TO SLEEP
....what?
He decided them not needing to sleep,is to unrealist and ovet powered ( i then procceded to explain AI and data from star trek) he hasnt reponded yet though. ...but i feel that its a bad idea to mess with a race like that..especially over something so minor
( oh when we rested he made the bard keep watch for 7hrs straight) .... So sleepless machine seemed like a help to the party

..this turned into mostly ranting but is there any suggestions to help this guy not freak out over every little thing ( he is the one who said all books allowed and we are trying to avoid super absurdness on him but..he is making it hard)..edit : btw that wolf,fight ended up around a CR 6 or 7 fight since i was now solo

[Crake]

The only "houserule" I can see, aside from the warforged needing to sleep (point out to him that the warforged does still need to rest each day, or he'll become fatigued, just doesn't need to sleep) is the rule regarding healing while sleeping.

Now, I don't know how you think the rule is supposed to work, but that's actually an improvement. Normally when you rest for 8 hours, get simply your level back in hp, so if you were level 6, you'd get 6 hp. Your DM's houserule increases that. Even at 10 con, you get double, and for every con beyond that, you get even more, so I don't know why you think this is a bad thing, it simply speeds up recovery, can't see how that's bad for mundanes?

Regarding the warforged not sleeping, I imagine he'd feel it would shift the tone of the game in a different direction, one he's not comfortable with. It would be better for him to just say no instead, but honestly, warforged are a pretty powerful race outside of eberron, simply because they're a construct in a game where constructs are likely not a common enemy, making their resistances really valuable, while their weaknesses very uncommonly targeted.

[finaldooms]

He went from a game where resting = full heal to doing this sorry...forgot to mention that
And your right..i did only put down one house rule..the rest turned into a rant at the high,lvl of fights he keeps sending sorry

He is doing alignment changes based on how we play?( by that i mean..i told the guards they were idiots for not knowing,me when i had just left a day or 2 ago..thats evil) ( or threatening to remove a wenches arms because she touched my,lythoderms ...was a warning only ) Idr that being a rule..unless you do something radically different i guess
Or being made to roll a charisma check to see if someone likes me when i first meet them ( im honestly not a nice person. ..i took aggressive and im CN ..as long as i make a profit i dont really care to much)
His has to sleep thing changed into they have to,go,into rest mode ..i sit there and get +2 listen -2 spot . ..the why the hell is a warforged supposed to make a good fighter? No str bonusm.no natural healing, no armor allowed

There is another rule he sais but i gota remember it first

[Crake]

He went from a game where resting = full heal to doing this sorry...forgot to mention that
And your right..i did only put down one house rule..the rest turned into a rant at the high,lvl of fights he keeps sending sorry

He is doing alignment changes based on how we play?( by that i mean..i told the guards they were idiots for not knowing,me when i had just left a day or 2 ago..thats evil) ( or threatening to remove a wenches arms because she touched my,lythoderms ...was a warning only ) Idr that being a rule..unless you do something radically different i guess
Or being made to roll a charisma check to see if someone likes me when i first meet them ( im honestly not a nice person. ..i took aggressive and im CN ..as long as i make a profit i dont really care to much)
His has to sleep thing changed into they have to,go,into rest mode ..i sit there and get +2 listen -2 spot . ..the why the hell is a warforged supposed to make a good fighter? No str bonusm.no natural healing, no armor allowed

There is another rule he sais but i gota remember it first

Alignment is most definitely a fluid thing. It's descriptive of how you play, so continuously acting against your alignment would certainly make your alignment shift. Of course, calling someone an idiot isn't evil, it's just being rude, but threatening violence is most certainly tending toward evil. There's no rule about it, but DMs are well within their right to decide what your alignment is if you're acting against what's written on your sheet. Remember, a game world has absolute morality, and that absolute is derived from your DM's personal subjective views on morality. Now of course, just because he calls you evil, doesn't mean you need to fundamentally change the way you play, alignment is descriptive, not presciptive, meaning alignment dictates how you've played, not how you should play.

[finaldooms]

I agree, ive done alignment. Changes. A few times...but he wants it,more,like fable and we take penalties for being evil ( people automatically dislike me,even if they have never heard of me) im surprised im not,growing horns and having,flies around my,body
And personally ( im not,dm ths time i know) i think if someone you dont know or doesnt have permisson to touch something you or your people consider sacred..then yes a violent response is normal especially for someone with. The aggressive trait

..Another thing!! He told the other guy the game is guna be RP heavy..whicj sure fine i dont mind..but i didnt know this so i made a brawn guy which shoukd have been fine since the other guy is the face...but like i said we have been having to fight well above our lvl because..my guy is to broken as he puts it
..why allows it then? ..plus any kinda ranged attack would pretty much slaughter me ..with my 12 ac and 21 hp now ( just lvled up)

..idk i might not be as annoyed if he bad told us these things in advance ...not as the situation comes up ( the resting thing is a pretty big deal since we have only ever played resting full recovers so i didnt know he waa going to change it..otherwise i woukd have made a slightly,more defence focused character)

[zlefin]

it sounds like the problem isn't house rules per se; it's that he's just a bad dm.

[Crake]

it sounds like the problem isn't house rules per se; it's that he's just a bad dm.

Yeah, I didn't wanna just outright say it, but this is pretty much the case. Either bad, or new, I guess.

[Ashtagon]

And personally ( im not,dm ths time i know) i think if someone you dont know or doesnt have permisson to touch something you or your people consider sacred..then yes a violent response is normal especially for someone with. The aggressive trait


In the real world, this is the start of many a criminal record.

And given that the human equivalent is essentially "make skin contact with me and you'll get a violent reaction", I have to side with that DM and say it's veering towards evil.

Just because your character considers something sacred, doesn't mean it's D&D "good". I understand many drow worship Lolth after all.

[finaldooms]

He is new..thats why im tryjng to help him..also keeps insisting we use HIS spreadsheet he made..but thats a different can of,worms ( its not bad...just not mobile friendly at all)

And you would just,walk up to an obviously inhuman thing and start touching it? ..it wouldbt have been a problem if it was his leg or something..but he specificly touched my lythoderms!!!
..and im trying to reduce the bad dm thing on him..cause no one is perfect specially not on their first. Couple games

[Ashtagon]

He is new..thats why im tryjng to help him..also keeps insisting we use HIS spreadsheet he made..but thats a different can of,worms ( its not bad...just not mobile friendly at all)

And you would just,walk up to an obviously inhuman thing and start touching it? ..it wouldbt have been a problem if it was his leg or something..but he specificly touched my lythoderms!!!
..and im trying to reduce the bad dm thing on him..cause no one is perfect specially not on their first. Couple games

If that obviously inhuman thing is intelligent and supposedly willing to be a part of human society? Sure I would. It might be classed as bad manners, but rudeness doesn't warrant an axe in the face.

An lithoderms? Literally "stone skin"? That does actually include such things as "leg".

Maybe role-play it as if your character is a black person with awesome hair and someone just casually reaches out to touch your hair? It's bad manners, but violent reactions aren't the sensible response.

[Goaty14]

The Fort save is probably the DM's take on death from massive damage,

Death from massive dmg is basically making a Fort save whenever you take 50+ damage, at level 4, you should probably point out that enemies shouldn't be doing this much damage, or explain to him how the rule works.

Also, since you're not super optimized (as a group) I suggest you roll a new character with about the same level of optimization as your bard friend. Your DM probably feels that your encounters are too easy (You soloed that ettin boss, as I recall) and then turns up the power level on your monsters, leaving your bard friend in the dust.
That, and you're a two man party, Challenge ratings are made to fit a decent challenge for a 4 man party.
You also might hint at the ranged attack thing towards your DM.

[finaldooms]

Hmm...the,fort save thing,is probly something i picked up as a dm and have always used..half hp= make a dc14 fort save ( only if it does half in 1 attack) ...its scary at low lvls..not as scary at higher lvls
I explained the cr thing to him..and yes i soloed the ettin ( different game and he was lvl 6 i think) bard made a saint cleric..he nerfed the saint which..im ok with actually ..but he did it after already sayng,its fine and the guy was in play for a few sessions
( ive since explained to him if he is going to say everything allowed he needs to read what we pick) ...and we go going sub optimized like i said lol
And yes i explained to him that ranged pretty much slaughters me..and that im no good at anything other than combat..hell talking is complicated for my guy apprently

We have decided to retry this and are starting over with. A). If you are house ruling tell us first B) core races and cores classes only ( he really likes feats from,complete scoundrel) And C) lets all agree to keep it simple..and if not sure to ask first ( in the case of a normal fight..DO ask if 4 CR 4 monsters is to much when we are lvl 3 ..the answer is probly yes)

And not expecting him,to have a house rule for everything ..just things that impact everyday gameplay he needs to tell us if he is changing the normal rule ( like resting, or how spells work etc)

[Crake]

Hmm...the,fort save thing,is probly something i picked up as a dm and have always used..half hp= make a dc14 fort save ( only if it does half in 1 attack) ...its scary at low lvls..not as scary at higher lvls

That's a pathfinder rule, however the caveat to that is that the damage must be minimum 50, because as you said, taking half your hp in damage, well, you're already half dead, why do you have to add in extra problems.

Why not just tell your DM to play the game without any houserules to start with, until he's more comfortable with the system. Maybe start by playing with more "standard" races, like humans and elves, and play some simple, basic classes. Then point your DM to the encounter building section in the DMG and make sure he actually reads it and understands what CR means, and how adding multiple CR creatures together impacts an encounter.

[finaldooms]

Hmm..just read massive damage lol..weird that i thought my way was a normal rule -.- ..seems a bit safer though at higher lvls

And via this reset we did ..currently before starting again the only house rules in play is resting gives con mod+2 xlvl in hp and..the damage rule is still in place atm ( which its helped more than it hurts so might keep,it idk up to him)

[Crake]

Hmm..just read massive damage lol..weird that i thought my way was a normal rule -.- ..seems a bit safer though at higher lvls

And via this reset we did ..currently before starting again the only house rules in play is resting gives con mod+2 xlvl in hp and..the damage rule is still in place atm ( which its helped more than it hurts so might keep,it idk up to him)

Honestly, instead of using those two houserules, you might want to look through unearthed arcana and look at the wounds/vitality variant. It achieves much the same as your two rules do, resting recovers you much faster, but at the same time, crits are much more dangerous, though crits specifically, not just big hits in general.

[finaldooms]

Thats,..actually probably what he was looking for!!
Aside from the CR thing that looks super easy for him,to,implement as well.. 2 man party vs CR will be..intresting

Just,to,make sure i understand CR..its pretty much CR 1 = lvl 1 having a 50/50 win right? ( yes i know alot of CR are stupidly unbalenced but,not,going there yet) edit.
I mean 1 lvl 1 player has a 50/50 ( so 4 cr 1 vs 4 lvl 1 should be 50 50 odds)

[Crake]

Thats,..actually probably what he was looking for!!
Aside from the CR thing that looks super easy for him,to,implement as well.. 2 man party vs CR will be..intresting

Just,to,make sure i understand CR..its pretty much CR 1 = lvl 1 having a 50/50 win right? ( yes i know alot of CR are stupidly unbalenced but,not,going there yet) edit.
I mean 1 lvl 1 player has a 50/50 ( so 4 cr 1 vs 4 lvl 1 should be 50 50 odds)

A CR1 encounter is meant to be a challenging encounter for 4 level 1 characters. Challenging, but generally no deaths. It's meant to deplete about 1/4 of the party's daily resources, which covers hp, spells/day, and daily abilities such as rage.

If you double the number of creatures, the encounter level goes up by 2, so 2 CR1 creatures is a CR3 encounter. Double it again (so you have four enemies), and you get CR5.

Party level +4 is where the party is supposed to have a 50/50 chance of succeeding, expecting casualties even in the event of a victory.

CR also expects 4 people. If you only have 2 people you effective party level is reduced by 2. So if you're two level 1 characters, your party level is 1/3 (in the CR system, going below one instead goes to fractions, so 1-1 = 1/2, and 1/2 -1 = 1/3 etc), so a CR1/3 encounter should be a decent challenge, while a CR1 encounter is going to be tough, and a CR3 encounter is a 50/50 chance of party wipe.

[finaldooms]

Oh....hmmm that means that,wolf,fight shoulda been worth alot more exp lol... And wow ive been reading CR wrong myself. .i always assumed it was a 1v1 thing ( its actuslly,worked out pretty well doing it like so)

[Crake]

Oh....hmmm that means that,wolf,fight shoulda been worth alot more exp lol... And wow ive been reading CR wrong myself. .i always assumed it was a 1v1 thing ( its actuslly,worked out pretty well doing it like so)

Note that the rewards on the xp table are meant to be divided to all the players, so a wolf, a CR1 opponent, gives 300xp if you're level 1-3. If four players fought the wolf, they should each get 75 xp. Or you can just use this handy encounter xp calculator (http://www.d20srd.org/extras/d20encountercalculator/), like I do.

If you ever lose it, it's the first search result in google if you search "dnd xp calc". It also gives you other handy information, like party level, encounter level, encounter difficulty, and how often you should use encounters of that difficulty.

[finaldooms]

Well..il definitely have,to explain that to the new dm more..as said i was doing CR wrong myself ( never really had a problem though so meh)

[Crake]

Well..il definitely have,to explain that to the new dm more..as said i was doing CR wrong myself ( never really had a problem though so meh)

Honestly, I would recommend giving the dungeon master's guide a good, thorough read sometime. Not only does it help explain how these systems work, it actually contains a lot of good advice on world and encounter building, as well as running adventures and interacting with players. I sometimes feel like most people these days simply half-learn the game through a friend, then when they decide to start DMing, they don't actually read the DMG before getting started. Certainly seems like a common theme. The DMG is definitely useful for more than the prestige classes, magic items, WBL table and XP table!

[finaldooms]

Honestly, I would recommend giving the dungeon master's guide a good, thorough read sometime. Not only does it help explain how these systems work, it actually contains a lot of good advice on world and encounter building, as well as running adventures and interacting with players. I sometimes feel like most people these days simply half-learn the game through a friend, then when they decide to start DMing, they don't actually read the DMG before getting started. Certainly seems like a common theme. The DMG is definitely useful for more than the prestige classes, magic items, WBL table and XP table!

I thought,i had a good grasp since ive read the DMG lol
And ive been telling,him to read it..but. He "doesnt have time" ...it,took a while before he understood combat also even as a player. .that triggers an aoo..how?!? Cause you did x thing,in its,range... So on and do orth

[Crake]

I thought,i had a good grasp since ive read the DMG lol
And ive been telling,him to read it..but. He "doesnt have time" ...it,took a while before he understood combat also even as a player. .that triggers an aoo..how?!? Cause you did x thing,in its,range... So on and do orth

Honestly, if he doesn't have the time to read the DMG, then how is he gonna have time to plan adventures and balance encounters? If he uses that as an excuse, then tell him that DMing is a time consuming job, and if he doesn't have the time (or more likely, isn't interested in investing the time), perhaps he should step down as DM.